Is anyone else upset with the rally in gt4?

  • Thread starter Thread starter driftingmonkey
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God.

The Grand Canyon rally is an embarrassment.

Making a more realistic, narrow ribbon on which to rally is fine, but not if it is artificially defined by the invisi-walls of some of the these circuits.

Look, according to my game stats I have put 57 hours and over 3,200 miles into Rallisport Challenge 2. It's a stretch to say--but in this age when rally is handled so much better elsewhere, Polyphony might have done better to leave these out altogether and just focus on the tarmac surfaces, because these exercises in limitation (invisible walls) and imitation (CMR-like control) are a letdown.

Vehicle physics and control. So far, I am experiencing arcade-easy oversteer. It seems a near identical model to Colin McRae's. Very important though for me not to make snap judgments. This is a big game and I have barely started. The jury is definitely still out on those rally phyics.

Yo - So tell me real quick. Can we ever import cars from our garage for use in arcade mode? (Thx in advance - slow dial-up here.)
 
BlueRex
i want to know how many of you guys have actually went fast on gravel? I have in my WRX. I've done many events with my car. Believe me when i say GT4 has more tranction than you will in real life.
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its probably in the tires - the professional-level off road tires in GT4 are probably better suited to the terrain then what you were on (maybe?)
 
GuyNamedJohn
God.

The Grand Canyon rally is an embarrassment.

Making a more realistic, narrow ribbon on which to rally is fine, but not if it is artificially defined by the invisi-walls of some of the these circuits.

Look, according to my game stats I have put 57 hours and over 3,200 miles into Rallisport Challenge 2. It's a stretch to say--but in this age when rally is handled so much better elsewhere, Polyphony might have done better to leave these out altogether and just focus on the tarmac surfaces, because these exercises in limitation (invisible walls) and imitation (CMR-like control) are a letdown.

Vehicle physics and control. So far, I am experiencing arcade-easy oversteer. It seems a near identical model to Colin McRae's. Very important though for me not to make snap judgments. This is a big game and I have barely started. The jury is definitely still out on those rally phyics.

Yo - So tell me real quick. Can we ever import cars from our garage for use in arcade mode? (Thx in advance - slow dial-up here.)
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Rallisport Challenge 2 is Arcade Rally Racing... See how its easy to control the car on tarmac? Its nothing like Gt4s tarmac... And is way easy to turn in dirt you could just full throttle all the way through... And although I too dislike invisible walls but I think it was the only solution PD has come up with... If they made the car fade away and reappear like Rallisport Challenge 2... I would have seemed too arcady for the GT series.... Not that I'm dissing RC2 though... one of the reasons I want Xb is because of that game...

And for your question... Only on 2p and Lan I believe... There are free runs in GT mode that can be used for the same reasons for single player...
 
I thought that the GT4 rally was fairly good i like my Colin Mcare 04 alittle better. I'd probably do the rally mode more save for the d*mn 5 sec penality thing. Try to go pass a guy he block and the penality slightly bump nething withthe front of your car penality.
 
JohnBM01
I guess to prepare for Grand Canyon, try Tahiti Maze and master it.
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Actually, master Tahiti Maze and you will learn how to tackle most of the rally courses in GT4...

The differences are:
Chamonix and Ice Arena: Keep the drifts very shallow. Slow and deliberate on the accelerator when exiting the corners.

Grand Canyon: Most corners don't leave you the room for a big sweeping drift. Keep it in check and you will go fast here. Learn the course well, and especially learn how to deal with the 1st gear haripins, as they are the best place to pass the computer players.

Cathedral Rocks: These are actually the same course, except II has a shortcut and bypasses the tarmac section. The bottom of this course is shaped like a boot. Keep your drifts in check around the heel of the boot, and learn which crests will interfere with your ability to brake and turn. There is a section with three connected turns in a small gorge that you may be tempted to take in a nice big drift, but you will be slow if you do. Treat it like a tarmac racing line and you will be faster.
 
GuyNamedJohn
Look, according to my game stats I have put 57 hours and over 3,200 miles into Rallisport Challenge 2.
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You're comparing RSC2 to GT4's physics and control?! Oh...LORDY!! You might as well have played 57 hours with Sega Rally, that game isn't that much less Arcade-like in control than RSC2.
 
I really hate the 5s penalty, especially because the AI driver can do whatever the hell he wants a get away with it. Last night I did the 1st Normal Special Condition Race, and three times I got rammed in the ass by the AI on the last turn, received a 5s penalty and lost the race. That really made me mad, just ask my roommate.
 
You're comparing RSC2 to GT4's physics and control?! Oh...LORDY!!
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Good grief. Guys. I'm sorry. I did leave that impression, didn't I? I should have been more clear:

1) the VISUALS cannot compare,
2) in my opinion, the way in which the whole offroading element of rally is handled has evolved far better, meaning no invisible walls. And to me, the careening off of invisible walls is far more damaging to one's sense of realism and immersion.

That said, YES YES YES, RSC2 is maddeningly over-the-top arcady. :p :cool:

Just so yutes don't think I'm completely bonkers... :o
 
And for your question... Only on 2p and Lan I believe... There are free runs in GT mode that can be used for the same reasons for single player...
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animateria thank you so much for answering my question. Dude, RSC2. You prolly seen videos by now, but try to imagine some of the most luscious, resplendant environments to race in and you'll have a pretty good idea. A blast to play, too. Course design is simply brilliant - but the incredible vistas will always consume you - they never grow old.

Don't miss it.
 
damn ok i understand its everyones opinion on this forum but to all those people who whine and b!t(h about "how unrealistic GT4 is " tell me some thing how much experience do you have rally racing??? huh... just because you do some drifts in a field in the middle of no where doesnt make you an expert at rally racing and yes i dont know much about rally racing but i do know about drifting, and dirt racing since i motocross i can tell you in the dirt there is not much traction hitting the apex of a corner is essential to being a good driver and before any one comes on here to ***** about me let me tell you i dont give a flying **** what someone 1000 miles away from me has to say. so before any one comes on here to ***** and moan about how unrealistic gt4 is, go buy a rally car ex. evo, wrx, celica and take it to a mountain track and see how trail braking into a corner works out for you i'll be the one fliping you off as your wrapped around a tree.... now that i got that off my chest gt4 is one of the best OVERALL racing games ever later
 
Mooman117
Rallying in real life is extremely difficult, very limited grip. You can not assume that you will get traction and hook up in time to exit a corner. Just imagine running on a gravel surface and suddenly just stopping. You would skid for quite a while before you come to a stop. A car weighs a lot more and is going alot faster but doesnt have much more surface area to gain traction (especially if the wheels are spinning).

I quite like GT4 with the DFP as its not as unmerciful as Richard Burns Rally but certainly better than GT3. Its all about going slow into the corner and modulating the gas and brake to control your slide and then power out of the turns.

IMO
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Agreed!!
 
My 2 cents...

1) I don't think anyone can comment on the 'realism' of GT4's rally that hasn't driven a real car in off road conditions. If you've never tried it, you don't know what it's like. Guessing doesn't count.

I only have a small amount of experience doing 4x4 offroad stuff in full sized trucks. It leads me to believe that GT4 is closer to real than GT3. However, I don't think I have enough RL offroad experience to make a finer judgement call than that. I think I can safely say, however, that GT4 simulates onroad phsics better than offroad physics.

2) I wish the 5 second penalty was present everywhere in GT, not just the rally. But then again, I like anything that promotes the use of GT as a simulator rather than an arcade game. And frankly, the hits that invoke the 5 second penalty would WRECK a real car and your race should be over. A 5 second penalty is a slap on the wrist compared to what should happen.

Racing is much more interesting when you're trying to avoid playing it as a contact sport. It is so much easier to just fishtail an opponent out of your way than to pass him by setting up a good run off a corner. But setting up the run is much more challenging, more interesting, and more like real life. The folks that just want to play bumper cars are missing out on the best part of the game, IMHO.

I even agree with the penalty even when the computer rear ends you. No really! When two racers are near eachother, it takes effort from both of them not to come into contact. The computer actually will respect your space when you're where you're supposed to be (and it will mercilously shove you off the road when you're somewhere you have no right to be... namely trying to pass on the outside).

3) The invisible walls suck. I want to fly off the cliff with a heart wrenching yell when I overcook a corner on Grand Canyon and fall to my death. Instead, the invisible walls often mean that I'm rewarded by a faster time when I make a mistake.

4) Overall, I find the 'rally experience' to be inferior to the Colin McRae rally series. It just doesn't have the narrow dirt tracks, the overall feel and excitement of the rally... it's just not there. _BUT_ it's physics are more realistic than McRae. So my ideal game, I think, would be McRae using the GT4 rally engine for the physics.


Overall, I think GT4 rally is a big step in the right direction. I'm inclined to cut Polyphony some slack here... the rally mode is effectively still under development. And if GT5 has a rally mode that's as much better than GT4 as GT4 was better than GT3... well, that will be a quite a good rally simulator, I think!


Oh... and before anyone gets upset with me... I know that my views on wanting maximum realism from GT are... atypical. I don't think the public would actually buy it if it was 100% realistic. Because that would imply that the players would have to be as skilled as real race car drivers just to be able to finish races. 99% of the audience would grow frustrated and never play the game again.

Nevertheless, the personally favor anything that pushes the game in that direction. Because that's what _I_ like.

- Skant

PS: I wouldn't entertain any notion that rally racing is harder than endurance racing. Each is incredibly difficult in its own way. Each is difficult for different reasons. It's something of an apples and oranges comparison. I wouldn't belittle anyone's blood and sweat no matter what form of racing they engage in.

(Well, maybe if they race clown cars or something...*wink*)

- Skant
 
Skant, nice post. For a man named skant, you're rich. :D Now my turn again.

rave
Well. I have to tell you: It's a good thing I didn't jump down GT4's throat when reacting to the initial visuals alone. See, in the consoles wars, the Xbox just has it all over the PS2, and I had been away from my PS2 for a spell. So after playing 57 hours of friggin' Rallisport Challenge 2 I was all like, "God GT4 sucks in visuals."

However.

GT4 has to be the deepest game I have ever touched, and the star is the physics. * W O W * ...The rally is fine (notice how your car 'catches' on the wooden bridge part of Swiss Alps? that's incredible).

the magic "it"
This game takes the console experience to a whole new level, and again, Kazunori-san's genius can be found in these babies' physics and behavior under exposure to various different stresses, surfaces, speeds, and conditions.

G4 = me like. Me likey lots. But it's deep, and will take time for the casual player (that's me, really) to ever know what all the fuss and celebration is for. And then there are some who will simply never get it.

But "it" is there, and when you feel "it" it's sublime.

a dirty celebration
The driving on dirt - yes, it's good. It's not CMR bad (pivot) or RSC2 shallow (flyweight cars). I am only now finishing up the IA License, and then it's onto my Super. (And forget about going for Golds! I ain't 'good' like that--and for now, I don't have the sheer time!)

There is so much to complete before one can really make sound or fair judgments. I will have to drive different classes and different drivetrains on the rally to know more, but yes I'll give it the "four-point physics" and agree that overall, the rally is indeed a great lot of fun.

Cheerio now, boys.

-GNJ-
 
GuyNamedJohn
animateria thank you so much for answering my question. Dude, RSC2. You prolly seen videos by now, but try to imagine some of the most luscious, resplendant environments to race in and you'll have a pretty good idea. A blast to play, too. Course design is simply brilliant - but the incredible vistas will always consume you - they never grow old.

Don't miss it.
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Oh you make me want to cry :( Maybe I should steal my cousins X-Box... He does not play Driving GAmes so its a waste of the system anyways~

Yeah I played it a lot in game stores when they had the demo on display... I have the first one on PC it is simply awesome to play!! (Dispite the major slowdowns my comp suffers) It would be the first game I would get if I get a X-Box...
 
The rally model is fine.

I'm not a fan of non-tarmac rally, but I've played Robert Burns Rally which is supposed to be a 'simulation' of sorts, and they do feel quite similar.

I just wish you could calibrate the wheel so you didn't have to turn it so much :\
 
I'm suprized you guys had such high expectations for GT4 rallying.

I suggest anyone who finds gt4 rallying hard or dissapointing to buy richard burns rally or at least try the demo :) . ( PM me and i will give u instructions on how to set up ur DFP for it)

I actually enjoy having to turn so much with non WRC cars. I want more realism.. more!! :drool:


I cant wait for modders to make RWd cars for RBR.

the trick is to steer with the throttle. The earlier you countersteer, the less you have to countersteer. and the easiest way to take corners is with a low angle drift. Get that thing sideways 👍
 
The rally and snow tracks are good. The licences test on the dirt or snow are those where I can get gold. And sometimes the first time I drive I have already silver.

Like the test with the Toyota Celica in the snow (the rally version) I think it was in IA licence i was 3 seconds faster of the GOLD time.
 
I can think of one major difference between real rallying and GT4. Theres only 1 car on the track at a time! This is why the 5 second penalty is horse****. If the WRC was raced like a head-to-head drag race, ever single driver would be dead. Period.
 
i think the rallying would be a lot better if you could race against ghost car like in gt2, no AI problems, no stupid penalties just you, track and time to beat.
 
The thing I hated most about GT2 rally was that if you're not fast enough, you lose. And don't get me started on trying to beat the Esucdo Pikes Peak at Pikes Peak. So it was basically more of a time trial. But then, isn't that what rally is?

There are rallycross races. I've heard of British Rallycross whereas cars like the Ford RS200, Ford Focus, Lotus Elise, and the Metro (I forget what the car is) race around at once. So GT4's rallying is more like rally cross. For you PS1 racing veterans, some of you may recall "Rally Cross" and "Rally Cross 2." In both games, it was 4 to a track. And if you rolled over and landed on your hood, you can shake the car left or right to free yourself and get back to action. So think of GT4 rallying as rally cross, because that's all I think it is. At least, you have a chance of winning. It isn't like Grand Canyon, where overtaking can be quite challenging (believe me, brothers and sisters. I know. I tried it in the game). I guess for GT veterans, the only "true" rallying was in GT2. Perhaps hope for point-to-point races in GT5. Or maybe hope to have all 156 turns of Pikes Peak in GT5 as well.
 
Just had my first experience with rallying and I can see how alot of people say it sucks. Ok its different to GT3 so that means you need to get used to it so keep trying. Its obviously more realistic so that's why you may find it hard. You also have to factor in that not everyone has or can use the wheel which I know is the key factor to get the most out of the game.
 
driftingmonkey
I have been playing for about 2 weeks now, and i noticed that the rally control is horrid! im so upset with the fact that every time you side the back of the car out to do a turn, the rear end acts like a magnet to the wall. Does anyone else notice this and find it rediculous?
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I have have noticed this and i am very dissapointed. I used to love the rally races but know i find myself avoiding them because of the handling! :yuck: 👍 👎
 
Liquid Li0n
The rally and snow tracks are good. The licences test on the dirt or snow are those where I can get gold. And sometimes the first time I drive I have already silver..
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I didn't really like how they mixed the rally lessons in with the tarmac lessons.

Two completely different tastes mixed into one dish didn't turn out too tastey.

Again, I blame the 900 degree mode.

Rally driving involves alot of sudden countersteer, so it got annoying after a while.
 
People in general have a tendency to drive way way way too fast... You have to snap out of the GT4 tarmac mentality to succeed on the dirt tracks.
 
JohnBM01
For you PS1 racing veterans, some of you may recall "Rally Cross" and "Rally Cross 2." In both games, it was 4 to a track. And if you rolled over and landed on your hood, you can shake the car left or right to free yourself and get back to action.
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Hello John,

Oh how the memory of the first Rally Cross on PS1 is dear to my heart. Loved that game!
I guess for GT veterans, the only "true" rallying was in GT2.
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GT2 on Dreamcast, mate. "bleem!cast" + GT2 equalled perfection; a GT2 lover's wet dream come true. Perfect marriage of classic gameplay + much improved graphics.

I still have my DC, the bleem! disc, and GT2. :)
 
JohnBM01
The thing I hated most about GT2 rally was that if you're not fast enough, you lose.
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Er.. isnt that what all racing is like :)


IRL some rallies are mixed terrain.
 
Sorry for going off on a tangent, but has anyone driven the Nike One offroad yet? Its an amazing rally car. The problem is that you can only use it in practice and time trial modes :(
 
Most people in the thread have got to be using a steering wheel and pedals. Pretty harsh comments abound toward anyone having trouble with these races. Why dont you try "feathering" the throttle on the ds2 controller? Just because not everyone dropped 150 bones for a steering wheel dosent mean their isnt a problem with the physics if you cant feather the throttle, left foot the brake, or any of those things with the ds2 controller. Now if someone has to go buy the steering wheel to be able to win in the rally and ice , I would say thats wrong and is a problem.
 

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