Is it me or do controller have the advantage!!?

[BrunusCL82]

I use DS4. My classification is B/A.

I think to take G29 next mounth.

But, i do not know if I'll adapt.

I'm afraid of making my performance worse.

 

[GT_Alex74]

@BrunusCL82 You'll probably need some time to adapt, but keep going no matter what. I witnessed many friends switching from pad to wheel, most suffered a dip in performance at first, but improved their speed after a while, ending up generally around 1 or 2 seconds faster a lap. The range of adaptation time ranged from a few weeks to 2 - 3 months, with the new performance peak being reached after between a month and a half and 6 months.

Of course, that will depend on how much you play among other factors, but in any case you'll enjoy it much more than a DS4.

 

[Mrgisi]

how do you distinguish a DS4 user from a wheel user during the race?

 

[JacksHerer]

It used to be easy to notice pad users because of the twitching on long corners, with motion control and skilled thumb stick users it's harder to tell.
When I watch my replays I tend to generally assume people with more than TCS on are pad users.

 

[Stotty]

I experienced this same phenomenon myself last night.

I spent a couple hours yesterday practicing Nurb GP on my wheel with the 911 RSR, getting all the tricky corners down, and finally setting a decent qualifying time (for my skill level) of 1:58:800. Then, out of curiosity, I grabbed the DS4 and tried to match that time.

I had to turn on TCS 2 right away because TCS 0 with a controller resulted in instant spins - and then it took me a few more laps to get the hang of the DS4 steering. But I was absolutely stunned how quick my lap times were with seemingly extremely sloppy, jerky, brute-force driving compared to the gracefulness of my wheel laps. I was doing 2:01 and 2:00 right off the bat, and after a few more laps of practice I nailed a 1:58:500. In less than 20 minutes I had beaten my best wheel time that had taken me well over an hour to achieve.

The DS4 definitely seems to have some artificial boosts over a wheel/pedals as you mention. Not saying this is wrong or unfair, just a little surprising.

Your issue is not that the DS4 has some sort of magical advantage - you’re just not getting anywhere near utilising the potential of your wheel.

I can run 58’s with a controller easily enough, but I’m in the low 55’s with a wheel.

The level of fine control over steering, gas and brakes with a wheel and pedals is on another level.

 

[JacksHerer]

I think it's easier to play to the game when using a controller, when I'm using a wheel I expect I am subconsciously limiting myself to real life inputs.

Things like worrying about damaging the car, when I watch people's replays I see them bouncing on the rev limiter for ages. I need to detach myself from the immersion and treat the car like I don't care if it's ruined in one lap.

 

[user3392345]

I think this game is made for joypad. At least that would explain the poor FF, the lack of ajustments and the non existent full 900° driver arm animation.

 

[JeffKill]

I’m 2 to 3 seconds faster with my wheel. Only game I’m quicker with a controller is Forza.

 

[TNR_KING_FILO]

the proof is in the daily time trials. when do you see the top 10 using a controller? this is old but it's relevant.

Thank You @Manasseh257NSX

No matter how had you try a DS3 will always be slower, at least on Gran Turismo. This is more than likely to help support the GT Academy event held every year. GT Academy is looking for drivers who drive with a wheel and not with a controller. Why? You don't drive with analogue sticks in real life etc.

In the world of GT6 you will only notice a massive difference in pace between DS3 vs Wheel in Tuning Prohibited Events. (I may cause an argument here) This is because Camber does not help the car turn as intended in real life. In GT6 It has a completely opposite affect on the car. A good example of this is setting a lap time on a circuit where their are predominantly fast left/right complexes i.e. Suzuka or Spa in completely stock Nissan Zytek Z11SN Greaves Motorsport '13. Then use a completely stock Nissan GT-R NISMO '14. The lap time delta between DS3 vs Wheel on the Nissan GT-R NISMO '14 will be far closer compared to the Nissan Zytek Z11SN Greaves Motorsport '13 as the Zytek has a front camber angle of 4.0 degrees. The GT-R NISMO has a front camber angle of 1.4 degrees.

• The effect this has using a wheel is very minimal as once after you can carry on turning the wheel to maximise the car's cornering grip
• The effect this has using a DS3 is great, and increases by the total degrees of camber used. After initiating the turn you will hit a barrier where you will not turn any more, thus resulting in either you releasing the accelerator to hit the apex of a turn or taking less speed into the corner in order to hit the apex.

In events where Tuning is NOT Prohibited always reduce front camber to 0.0 this will immediately reduce the difference of DS3 vs Wheel. Tuning can greatly swing the chances of being faster on an DS3 however there are certain circumstances where you will see a difference.
Drivetrain can influence the effect but it can mainly be simplified down to the car's weight distribution. Cars which drastically understeer (54/46) like the GT-R NISMO GT3 and cars which drastically oversteer (44/56) Ford GT LM Spec II Test Car i've found seem to enhance the difference of DS3 vs Wheel.

Here is a short example where i use myself as DS3 Pace and the fastest time in class Steering Wheel pace.
2015 GTPlanet Endurance Series: 6 Hours of Silverstone Classification by Driver Fastest Lap

• TNR_5zigen - 01:58.534
• TNR_FILO - 01:59.624 +01.090

2015 GTPlanet Endurance Series: 24 Hours Nürburgring Classification by Driver Fastest Lap

• DaBomb330 - 08:12.857
• TNR_FILO - 08:16.596 +03.739

These times where set in an competitive racing environment where there were up to 12 or more cars on track, with variable weather, nor does it show maximum Steering Wheel or DS3 pace. As a general rule where high speed sections are involved: For every 2 minutes a wheel is around 1 second faster.

A wheel maybe faster as a general rule but it will be no substitute for good old practice or driver etiquette.
I hope mine, @Whitetail's and @StigsTC's performance's in the various races in the GTP Endurance Series can prove this.

Our most recent performance: 2015 GTPlanet Endurance Series: London 12 Hour Classification by Driver Fastest Lap

 

[GT_Alex74]

the proof is in the daily time trials. when do you see the top 10 using a controller? this is old but it's relevant.

Actually, I know Enzo_sim_driver uses a pad, and JP Lacombe only drove the game with a pad so far, yet still managed to get a top 8 EU ranking in one FIA test season, from his own words, pads can be faster than before on GT Sport, it's still slower but the gap has reduced. However, that's on a single lap, consistency is very hard to achieve, and it's worse when there's tyre wear. Although I don't think any pads will remain in top 10s when serious business really begins, we may still see one or two in top 24 races.

 

[JacksHerer]

GTS like GTA Online racing, slows you down or stops you accelerating as fast when your wheels are not straight.

Because pad user can be constantly adjusting off centre, so they are able to get more speed, it's only tenths but they all add up.

Example being that oval track in the samba today, it looks like the fastest time guy is using a pad, instead of one smooth curve at each end of the oval, he appears to be adjusting off centre lots of times, if he's using a wheel to do this then he can't be having much fun as it wouldn't be very immersive to use a wheel like that lol.

 

[Toblakai99]

You can be quick with a ds4 but you lack the consistency a wheel brings to the party and that's huge.

 

[JacksHerer]

Using a wheel is so much better immersion, but people who have been using controller since gt1 could perform better than wheel users due to the straight line speed thing.

They don't need consistency because there are driving AIDS that you can have switched on, but which don't slow you down until you make use of them. If the driving aid is not flashing red, it's not being activated while its there if need be.

I used to play FPS with keyboard and mouse, I used to think controllers will never be as accurate as keyboard and mouse. But when I see what people can do with controller nowadays because that's what they grew up on, amazes me.

 

[rex1825]

Wheel will always be faster... there is no way one can control car as precise as wheel can...

 

[JacksHerer]

Precision is hit and miss, only improved with muscle memory and practice.

After a few hours of driving on the limit with a wheel in invisible car view, I am ready for a cup of Tea and retire to the sofa for a relax with my feet up.
With a controller and helicopter view I could practice for as many hours as I had free, while sitting on the sofa with my feet up, learning to hit the easily visible apex, using all the track width when I can visibly see where my car is on the track.

 

[Gogga]

GTS like GTA Online racing, slows you down or stops you accelerating as fast when your wheels are not straight.

Because pad user can be constantly adjusting off centre, so they are able to get more speed, it's only tenths but they all add up.

Example being that oval track in the samba today, it looks like the fastest time guy is using a pad, instead of one smooth curve at each end of the oval, he appears to be adjusting off centre lots of times, if he's using a wheel to do this then he can't be having much fun as it wouldn't be very immersive to use a wheel like that lol.

Hi

Apologies for my ignorance, but how is one able to see the replay of one of the top 10 stars. I dont see any option to download ghost or watch replay. Please enlighten me.

 

[JacksHerer]

If you go to sport race entry, but before entering race or qualifier, click on rankings, then you should see an arrow next to the fastest 10.
You can press square to show their driving inputs at bottom of replay screen.

 

[George Jakob]

ban aids in sport mode!
or at least tie it to scoring or ratings or something...

Why ? Sport mode is the (Regular for everyone online mode) So no

 

[Obelisk]

I just got a T150 for christmas and was putting together a DS4 vs wheel comparison, and as I was watching the replay I noticed the pad could lay down power a tiny bit sooner, but the wheel could take advantage of unrestricted rotation and more precise controls.

I ran near identical laps, and I have far less experience with the wheel at limit than I do with the DS4.

 

[Gogga]

If you go to sport race entry, but before entering race or qualifier, click on rankings, then you should see an arrow next to the fastest 10.
You can press square to show their driving inputs at bottom of replay screen.

Thanks alot and Happy new year to you!

 

[JacksHerer]

banning AIDS would put people off sport mode. running a 4th race without any AIDS would be nice, but probably empty too.

 

[gmaki]

Obviously there are some advantages to a controller. The ability for instant full throttle or full brakes quicker than a human could ever do so with a wheel and pedals. But of course the disadvantage is the inability to modulate them as well.

Almost as if there is some sort of balance.

 

[TenderLoins]

banning AIDS would put people off sport mode. running a 4th race without any AIDS would be nice, but probably empty too.

Yep.

I think ASM and CSA should be the only aids restricted, and only in the FIA races. Sport mode is bad enough with people using those aids. Ban them and they will be horrible especially with the exaggerated tire wear and fuel usage currently implemented.

 

[JacksHerer]

I just got a T150 for christmas and was putting together a DS4 vs wheel comparison, and as I was watching the replay I noticed the pad could lay down power a tiny bit sooner, but the wheel could take advantage of unrestricted rotation and more precise controls.

I ran near identical laps, and I have far less experience with the wheel at limit than I do with the DS4.

Are you using the same view with each? Do you drive in real life? Are you skilled with a controller in other games?

I am much better with wheel than controller, but I've never got the hang on controllers, when auto aim is off in GTA online I can't shoot anyone without a five second head start and that's if they stand still.

What's unrestricted rotation? I figured the controller could be flicked from opposite lock to opposite lock with the flick of a thumb.

 

[Stotty]

Precision is hit and miss, only improved with muscle memory and practice.

After a few hours of driving on the limit with a wheel in invisible car view, I am ready for a cup of Tea and retire to the sofa for a relax with my feet up.
With a controller and helicopter view I could practice for as many hours as I had free, while sitting on the sofa with my feet up, learning to hit the easily visible apex, using all the track width when I can visibly see where my car is on the track.

And how much slower would you be using a controller in 'helicopter view'?

If you can't hit apex's, or use the full width of the track when using 'invisible car view' this demonstrates either 1) a lack of spacial awareness and/or 2) a lack of familiarity with the track.

 

[Obelisk]

Are you using the same view with each?

Yes, I am. Hood/roof cam or whatever it's called.

Do you drive in real life?

Yep. Got my license four years ago. Near-perfect driving record.

Are you skilled with a controller in other games?

In the context of racing games, yes. I'm not the fastest in Forza but I'll put up a fight mid to front of the pack.
In the context of shooter games...Good luck getting near me. But yes, I'm skilled on a controller in other racing games.

What's unrestricted rotation?

On a controller, the front tires will only turn to their limit and no further. On a wheel, you can rotate the tires beyond that point.

 

[JacksHerer]

I don't know 'exactly' how wide my invisible car is, which is why I don't get full use of the track to the foot. Probably why I use the same cars 95% the time. I only know I've hit the apex when I feel it, and depending on the apex that means I've got too close.
I never go further than my hands above each other lockwise (holding wheel at 1/4 to 3pm) in GTS on my wheel, I would prefer a shorter steering rack in GTS.

I presumed the controller gave the games maximum lock left to right on the thumb stick, and was certainly quicker to reach and get back to straight than most able bodied wheel users.

 

[gmaki]

Interestingly I was in a race (Brand Hatch) with two DRS driver at the front (I am a "B"). So after the race I saved the replay so I could watch their laps. As it turned out one was using a controller and the other a wheel. They ran 1 and 2 the entire race at roughly equal lap times.

The big thing I noticed about the controller guy was he was shifting a lot more. Going into turn 1 he would go from 3rd down to 1st, then back up to 3rd before turn 2, then back to 2nd at the turn in for 2... and so on.

The wheel guy used far fewer shifts. He would take turn 1 in 2nd up shift to 3rd and keep it there tough turn 2 and 3 before up shifting on the straight.

Obviously the wheel was way smoother and I am sure that his style reduced wheel spin coming out of corners. Where the controller driver could just tap and release his throttle instantly to control the lower gear.

It was a great lesson me since I am using a wheel but was shifting a lot more like the controller guy. Once I switched to the "fewer shifts" method I picked up a little time but more importantly I was more consistent.

 

[TenderLoins]

On a controller, the front tires will only turn to their limit and no further. On a wheel, you can rotate the tires beyond that point.

The tires/wheels turning limit is exactly that, it’s limit.

Using a wheel doesn’t allow the them to turn any farther. You can turn your steering wheel past the cars actual wheel lock but it doesn’t turn the cars wheels any farther than on a controller.

 

[Obelisk]

Using a wheel doesn’t allow the them to turn any farther. You can turn your steering wheel past the cars actual wheel lock but it doesn’t turn the cars wheels any farther than on a controller.

Actually, I can crank the car to full lock in a high speed turn. I was talking about the maximum angle the wheels can turn during a cornering maneuver (which decreases as speed goes up). I'm not sure if I'm explaining it right.