Is it me or do controller have the advantage!!?

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I got my T150 (first wheel) in September. A little over two weeks ago my gas pedal
spring broke. Currently waiting on Thrustmaster to send me a new spring.

Now that I am using a controller again, I found every car extremely tight. In some cases, I am up to two seconds slower and struggling significantly.

After a few weeks of using a controller, I found my speeds improving. Even won a race! My times never topped what I did with a wheel though. My T150 has been fixed, and I have since seen an uptick in my times.

Based on my experience I found that wheel users still have the advantage over DS4.
 
Ugh, I have the DS4 steering sensitivity set to -2 and I have been struggling with this goddamn chicane awhile now since the grip update. Are you telling me if I bump my sensitivity up I can full throttle thru this chicane easier?
Yup, I use +5.
 
Ah, but you didn’t test the one car/track combo, that although is pretty much irrelevant to the rest of the game, might prove their point.
I guess that's aimed at me due to my request, I'm just curious, I'm not looking to prove any point.
I'm happy that there is a video showing the wheel and controller being equal.
Different tracks may give different results, like interlagos, suzuka, doing the controller lap with helicopter view could give the controller a bit of an advantage.

There may be a pad difference between which pad method is faster between motion control/sticks or dpad, a thread of its own
Again, I stress that I'm not looking to prove any point, I'm curious and I'm sure others will be, especially if they haven't yet grown attached to using a specific method.
 
I think those that are truly good with a controller will be hard to spot online... looking at the "thread revival" post... that is one smooth lap on the pad, for me, I would have thought you a wheel user.

I think where the curiousness comes from is in the lower ranks, where more driving mistakes are made, where controller users are noticeably "jerky" and able to recover from some insane out-of-shape moments that would be impossible with a wheel (physically impossible to go lock to lock quick enough), thus giving the illusion of a benefit... therefore leading to a conclusion "must be faster"...
But, as the skill set improves, they become much more smooth (as evident the the revival post), those mistakes become far less frequent, and the "controller is faster" becomes much less noticeable... to the point of it no longer being a talking point.
 
I think those that are truly good with a controller will be hard to spot online... looking at the "thread revival" post... that is one smooth lap on the pad, for me, I would have thought you a wheel user.

I think where the curiousness comes from is in the lower ranks, where more driving mistakes are made, where controller users are noticeably "jerky" and able to recover from some insane out-of-shape moments that would be impossible with a wheel (physically impossible to go lock to lock quick enough), thus giving the illusion of a benefit... therefore leading to a conclusion "must be faster"...
But, as the skill set improves, they become much more smooth (as evident the the revival post), those mistakes become far less frequent, and the "controller is faster" becomes much less noticeable... to the point of it no longer being a talking point.

I feel like at some point along that path of being a smoother and better driver, the higher 'resolution' of steering input you input to the game via a wheel will give it a higher skill ceiling over a controller (or DS4 at least).
 
Long time DS4 user here. It's a frustrating experience because on the limit being smooth helps, but smooth with a DS4 is very hard to do. It feels like I can go 95% of my limit on DS4 and the rest I need a wheel for.
A way around this is to tune the car to be very forgiving on-throttle, I gain a bit of time this way.

Reduced my DS4 sensitivity yesterday to help with snappy steering making the rear step out and suddenly I can't run through the Dragon Trail chicane like I used too because it just won't go left-to-right fast enough :/ #DS4Problems
This is exactly the reason I bought a T300. I felt exactly like you describe. Too high sensitivity doesn't work well because it's too snappy and too low sensitivity doesn't work either because then you cannot go from left to right fast enough (and it's not just about Dragon Trail).

One thing I'm sure though. PD did this on purpose to make DS4 players slower AND encourage them to buy a wheel. It's a good thing I guess, I was many times TOP1 in the leaderboards in the closed beta (the DS4 steering worked flawlessly back then).

It's been around 6 weeks since I bought the wheel and I am now as fast as I was with DS4. Still need some more consistency but managing "screwed up situations" is much harder with a wheel and always will be I think because of the wheel rotation.
 
This is exactly the reason I bought a T300. I felt exactly like you describe. Too high sensitivity doesn't work well because it's too snappy and too low sensitivity doesn't work either because then you cannot go from left to right fast enough (and it's not just about Dragon Trail).

One thing I'm sure though. PD did this on purpose to make DS4 players slower AND encourage them to buy a wheel. It's a good thing I guess, I was many times TOP1 in the leaderboards in the closed beta (the DS4 steering worked flawlessly back then).

It's been around 6 weeks since I bought the wheel and I am now as fast as I was with DS4. Still need some more consistency but managing "screwed up situations" is much harder with a wheel and always will be I think because of the wheel rotation.
I don’t know, I actually think the opposite. I think that PD do the best job (at least on Playstaion) of giving controller users a chance vs wheel users. I’ve found other racing sims/games to be a lot less balanced in that one is far better than the other, where as on GT it seems fairly balanced for the vast majority
 
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I don’t know, I actually think the opposite. I think that PD do the best job (at least on Playstaion) of giving controller users a chance vs wheel users. I’ve found other racing sims/games to be a lot less balanced in that one is far better than the other, where as on GT it seems fairly balanced for the vast majority
You are right that GTS is totally playable with DS4, probably best on PS4. However, setting fastest lap now seems impossible with a controller. The steering just feels more jerky than GT6 or GTS CB. Ask other DS4 using aliens. The best bet right now is just try a wheel and if you can be even faster.
 
You are right that GTS is totally playable with DS4, probably best on PS4. However, setting fastest lap now seems impossible with a controller. The steering just feels more jerky than GT6 or GTS CB. Ask other DS4 using aliens. The best bet right now is just try a wheel and if you can be even faster.
I doubt with a wheel I’d be anywhere closer to the top10’s times haha!

I’d be all over a wheel setup, but I can’t afford to throw £500~ at a few racing games, so I’m content with buggering about with my DS4 :D


I just wanted to make that post because a lot of stuff seems to come from people either not being good, or making assumptions. As someone of middling ability it seems clear that wheels are probably faster, but not because of aids, but because they offer an inheritantly higher skill ceiling.
 
@terrordog1490 has landed top 10 a few times and he runs on a DS4. Incidentally, it's only in lower speed or twitchy cars.
Yeah haplened to me too, once. I was 1st at Dragon Trail with Aston Vantage, way back with DS4. Never again but yeah seems like road cars are better controllable with DS4.
 
I think those that are truly good with a controller will be hard to spot online... looking at the "thread revival" post... that is one smooth lap on the pad, for me, I would have thought you a wheel user.

I think where the curiousness comes from is in the lower ranks, where more driving mistakes are made, where controller users are noticeably "jerky" and able to recover from some insane out-of-shape moments that would be impossible with a wheel (physically impossible to go lock to lock quick enough), thus giving the illusion of a benefit... therefore leading to a conclusion "must be faster"...
But, as the skill set improves, they become much more smooth (as evident the the revival post), those mistakes become far less frequent, and the "controller is faster" becomes much less noticeable... to the point of it no longer being a talking point.
It's easy to spot a controller if you have a replay of their lap. In the in car view the steering wheel will be very smooth as opposed to a wheel, almost AIish. I spotted a lap in the top 10 the other day and I couldn't figure out how he was setting such a fast lap while holding such a steady wheel. Well, later that night I was messing around in a lobby with a controller and my in car view was doing the same thing. Turns out he was using a controller. Still don't know how he ran a 1:58.5xx at Suzuka with a pad. For those that don't quite understand what I'm saying just look at the difference in the steering wheel movement with a wheel vs controller from the in car view it is very obvious.
 
It's easy to spot a controller if you have a replay of their lap. In the in car view the steering wheel will be very smooth as opposed to a wheel, almost AIish. I spotted a lap in the top 10 the other day and I couldn't figure out how he was setting such a fast lap while holding such a steady wheel. Well, later that night I was messing around in a lobby with a controller and my in car view was doing the same thing. Turns out he was using a controller. Still don't know how he ran a 1:58.5xx at Suzuka with a pad. For those that don't quite understand what I'm saying just look at the difference in the steering wheel movement with a wheel vs controller from the in car view it is very obvious.

FYI there are a few players who have the "grip bug" (see the related thread in this forum) and therefore are able to set normally impossibly fast Leaderboard times for the daily races, that's probably what you were seeing there.
 
It's easy to spot a controller if you have a replay of their lap. In the in car view the steering wheel will be very smooth as opposed to a wheel, almost AIish. I spotted a lap in the top 10 the other day and I couldn't figure out how he was setting such a fast lap while holding such a steady wheel. Well, later that night I was messing around in a lobby with a controller and my in car view was doing the same thing. Turns out he was using a controller. Still don't know how he ran a 1:58.5xx at Suzuka with a pad. For those that don't quite understand what I'm saying just look at the difference in the steering wheel movement with a wheel vs controller from the in car view it is very obvious.
Except if you use a controller, the visual movement of the in car wheel is smoothed out to such an extent it’s almost meaningless to look at
 
Except if you use a controller, the visual movement of the in car wheel is smoothed out to such an extent it’s almost meaningless to look at
I'm not sure what you're trying to say. That's basically what I said, and why it's easy to differentiate between a controller and wheel if you have a replay of their lap. I was responding to the guy that said it's hard to spot a controller.
 
I'm not sure what you're trying to say. That's basically what I said, and why it's easy to differentiate between a controller and wheel if you have a replay of their lap. I was responding to the guy that said it's hard to spot a controller.
Ah yeah haha fair point :lol: I misunderstood entirely :lol: sorry!
 
If I can chip in here, the controller movements (especially on high sensitivities) doesn't match driver input all the time. Especially if the driver is changing directions rapidly. The wheel would lag behind the actual motion presented in the replay.
 
Personally think DS4 and wheel are closely matched, wheel likely being slightly faster and probably easier to be fast consistently with due to the extra precision in control. Wheel main advantage probably being able to be more reactive with steering, controller you are a bit more of a passenger. Controller bigger advantage is likely for novice drivers who don't know correct approach to drive, the game helps you drive the correct way.

I think PDI have done a great balancing act, if controller did have a noticeable lap time advantage then it is odd that top 24 superstars in the championships seems to be mainly dominated by wheel users. People seem to use anything as an excuse, just try and improve driving technique instead. It is in a way a lot easier to drive fast than it is to drive slower. When driving quicker, car is working for you rather than against you and you know better what you are doing and what the car is doing. When driving slower, every corner might consistently be an adventure into the unknown.
How many known fast guys bothered to even put a qualifying time on the boards in the bus event?

As for GT3 at Suzuka... no way did a DS4 user get in the top 10, unless it was 5 minutes after the events changed and no fast wheel users had run any laps.



Your 'frustration' is caused by your lack of skill with a wheel than any advantage a DS4 user has. 2.00 laps in a GT3 car at Suzuka is at least 2-3 seconds off a fast wheel time (if I remember qualifying times correctly from the last time I ran GT3 at Suzi, fast laps are in the 57/58 range).

No way a DS4 user can trail brake as effectively as a competent wheel user... which is critical to braking as effectively as possible in to hairpins. And no way they can accelerate out as effectively either - you cannot apply partial throttle/steering with a DS4 anywhere near as effectively as you can with wheel/pedals... which is critical to fast exits.

Perhaps you should spend less time complaining about some perceived advantage DS4 users have and more time working on your wheel skills ;)



Forget consistency, a wheel and pedals is just faster. By a significant margin.

Just because YOU can't brake as late/accelerate as early with a wheel compared to using a DS4 does not prove your point... Again, all this proves is your lack of skill with the wheel (as you say yourself - you're a novice wheel user), not a particular advantage with the DS4.

Unless you can you back up your claim that a DS4 can quicker than a properly fast wheel user? On any track or even a single corner? Maybe try downloading the FL ghost of a #1 time and run against it with your DS4... see how much faster you can go (or can't).
I can still beat you even with DS4, does that mean you are not a properly fast wheel user? :D Think you are giving too much credit to wheel there but get the point you are trying to get across. At the end of the day, it is still running same physics, if one can hit the same lines then both should be quite close together. I remember giving Assetto Corsa on my laptop touchpad a go, I was amazed how well it went as I was able to be as fast as some of the top wheel drivers with the AWD cars. That brings me to the point that wheel is advantageous in being quick in every scenario rather than being more car/track combo dependent.

One thing that surprised me about this game since the closed Beta is how well it drives with a DS4 and the level of feedback, an incredible achievement. I never tried it at the Copper Box event with a pad thinking there is no point as I'm not very good on GT games with one. Now even I can look somewhat competent with one thanks to this game. :lol:

Since recent update, whenever I tried, I have always managed to get a time uploaded in the top 10 in EU with likes of R33, R34, M4 Gr.4 and 911 RSR cars with enough potential to get top ranking position if I could string my best sectors together. It is also quite easy to get up to speed, even if I'm quite rusty, it doesn't take long to be reasonably competitive. I wonder how well some top pad drivers of old would do but most seem to have transitioned to wheel by now or gone missing. Maybe some of the top pad and wheel users will make a return once official championships begin.

Anyway, below is last TT I did on GT Sport. I narrowly missed out on first on this, probably was so close due to no one doing a top drawer time in EU. 1:57's would have been more of a decent time which is what I was aiming for, messed up a few goes quite badly through 130R, even this one I was up on first but lost the little time through there which cost me top spot. :( Maybe just bad timing on my part on DS4 but I reckon it is an area where wheel might be easier to nail such a corner thanks to more ability to adjust line mid-corner better. Overall I lost little bit here and there in sectors 1, 2, 4 and lost a bit more in sector 3. Looking at the replay, impressed how good GT looks and sounds nowadays but also shows how well the DS4 steering algorithm is that it can look quite close to wheel driving. I'm not doing it full justice, need some of the pad aliens to show how it is really done.

 
I think PDI have done a great balancing act, if controller did have a noticeable lap time advantage then it is odd that top 24 superstars in the championships seems to be mainly dominated by wheel users.

One thing is that there is a good chance that many of the "aliens" also play other racing sims and have done so for years. Some may have switched to the wheel set up just for the immersion factor others because the wheel is the clear superior input choice for some sims.

So it would make sense that if most of the fastest racers are years long experienced racers across multiple games and platforms they would choose to use the device that would be very similar regardless of the game currently being played.

Actually some people will be fast regardless of their choice of control input device.

That does not mean for the AVERAGE player of the game that either control input device is overwhelmingly better than the other. Maybe just what you are accustomed to using the most.
 
I always use a wheel but online I keep seeing people that are almost as fast as me even though they are doing that thing where they jerk the wheel right-centre-right-centre etc in a corner and are taking horrible lines. It really made me think there was a 5% grip boost for controllers.

In my test I tried to go round 130r at the same speed with DS4 and TGT. Result was the DS4 went straight into the wall because of the wheel turning speed limit. This turning speed is a serious limitation of the DS4 and I really don't know how people are doing this jerk driving when the wheel turns so slow. It also makes it 100% impossible to catch oversteer. All console racing games do it to my knowledge because novices can't drive smooth with a controller but some compensate with arcade/variable steering e.g Forza.

I then did a simple hotlap test. I was immediately faster with the DS4 by about 6 tenths than the lap I had already done with the wheel. But then I realised it was actually because I had put traction control on with the DS4 and then I went ahead and beat the DS4 time with the TGT by another 5 tenths.

Does anyone else here who thinks controllers have an unfair advantage drive without TCS with their wheel? The devs have made it artificially difficult to control the throttle and slight input lag on PS4 makes it difficult to stay on the limit of rear grip. I didn't realise how much time it was costing me.
 
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I had thought that the game was giving controllers an advantage, but I've since conceded to it probably being because they are using CSA.
Using a controller with helicopter view and CSA switched on IS a benefit IMO.

Testing is difficult because you need a pad alien vs a wheel alien, otherwise it's not reaching the games physics, and on different days one guy will be on better form.

EDIT : you can adjust controller/wheel sensitivity in the advanced options.
 
I had thought that the game was giving controllers an advantage, but I've since conceded to it probably being because they are using CSA.
Using a controller with helicopter view and CSA switched on IS a benefit IMO.

Testing is difficult because you need a pad alien vs a wheel alien, otherwise it's not reaching the games physics, and on different days one guy will be on better form.

EDIT : you can adjust controller/wheel sensitivity in the advanced options.
What's CSA?

Sensitivity made no difference to the turning speed for me but I'll try it again in a bit.
 
Counter Steer Assist

If you have fun/time testing, doing the little oval in the samba without ABS or any driving aids would put my mind to rest, going around and around until you are consistently ontop of your ghost, and then save the ghost replay to run against with the pad using Dpad steering.
 
Counter Steer Assist

If you have fun/time testing, doing the little oval in the samba without ABS or any driving aids would put my mind to rest, going around and around until you are consistently ontop of your ghost, and then save the ghost replay to run against with the pad using Dpad steering.
Remember what I said? I'm gonna fire up GTS tonight and test this.
 
Remember what I said? I'm gonna fire up GTS tonight and test this.
:D I don't remember this morning, let alone a prior day, I do now though:p

It would be interesting if you got different results, I've fixated about gear settings before and found that my laps were so inconsistent that my gearing didn't make as much difference as my lap consistency, so I gave up worrying about playing with the gears.
 
I'm goin to chime in here and say no. The reason being I've played all other GT games with a controller but sport. (So i think I'm pretty adapt with a controller). I started sport on a T150 wheel. Closed beta open beta and full game. I play with a controller when I don't feel like getting the wheel out. Just upgraded Mr wheel to the T300 GT edition and have been smashing all my records set with the 150 or controller.
 
:D I don't remember this morning, let alone a prior day, I do now though:p

It would be interesting if you got different results, I've fixated about gear settings before and found that my laps were so inconsistent that my gearing didn't make as much difference as my lap consistency, so I gave up worrying about playing with the gears.

Try tweaking the diff a bit it gets you in and out of corners faster without drama everyone else will think you've got nitrous lol...I only mess with final speed of gears or it gets a bit messy, (gears can be too close or too far apart). You keep the factory settings but you can make the car overall shorter or longer gearbox.
 
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Here's a test for you (10 laps minus 3 - ignores first 2 laps and last lap due to learning and cooldown)
sdfs.jpg

Fastest time set by DS4 by 0.098 seconds.

TGT less than half the variance (that's total variance from average lap not average variance).

I think basically it is harder to keep doing the same thing each time with the DS4 as you are working with less precision but it is more agile, requires less effort and you are guaranteed to be at the limit of grip when turning whereas with the wheel you might steer too much or too little.

DS4

0:40 is the type of corner that really works nicely with the controller.

TGT
 
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