Is it me or do controller have the advantage!!?

[Atwork]

The ds4 is closer it seems this time around on most games. Gts is the best controller experience to me and I don't like to play racing games with a contoller normally. I have used various wheels over the years. For me pedals are what is the biggest difference to me. Good pedals often over looked. Good wheel and bad pedals are going to affect your lap times. Also set up matters, if your wheel is set up badly you may be better with a controller. Play with the controller and flip all the setting to the other end of the scale. It may be hard to play with those settings. Using a wheel is the same principle since there are so many variables. The ds4 user is able to plug and play and go decently fast. Lock to locate and quick movements may be an advantage with the ds4. A wheel used properly that is not **** more often will be faster if you are using it right. Your braking points for one may be different with the ds4 because the experience is different. I would take a look at how you drive with each, either with ghosts or replays you may find out why you are better with one or the other.

 

[JacksHerer]

I like the comment from gmaki, it explains why I finish much better in the high fuel/high tire wear dailies than I do when there is no wear.
That's clearly an advantage for the wheel user, but also the pad user has the advantage of driving to the games limit.

So out of these two S guys, who had the fastest qualifying? And which guy won?

I'll have to check later if a pad user is still holding the fastest time on the oval in the samba, with only two corners and the whole lap done in one gear, it should be definitive.

 

[MrCrynox]

Regardless of control method, if your fast your fast.

I bought a wheel & pedal set for GTS, tried hard to like it for a few months then sold it.

Why ? I found that I although I could could steer with greater precision and more smoothly the same couldn't be said for throttle & braking, especially braking.

I found that the brake pedal felt nothing like a real brake pedal so trying to get a real feel was difficult. I tried stiffening it up with a rubber cone which slightly helped but it still pailed in comparison to a real car.

For me it broke the illusion/experience and made realise I might as well be using the controller, especially as my rig was a temporary setup and I had to keep moving it into place, plugging it all in etc, moving a chair to the wheelstand.

I felt it was all a big hassle when all I did previously was turn on the console, pick up the controller plug my headphones in and go.

Also I could never beat my controller times, I could only match them, (this annoyed me greatly and made me realise it doesn't matter what control method is being used).

Now if they made a force feedback wheel with analogue triggers somehow built in, that would be they way to go, for me anyway.

I would say though that due to my experience I'm dead happy using my DS4, I don't feel inferior in the slightest compared to wheel/pedal users and it always brings a smile when I read negativity towards it.

 

[JacksHerer]

I've been there with the brake pedal, I bought 'the perfect pedal' mod for my g25 pedals (seen in pic) when my pedal was glitching. I had to reinforce my rig for the extra pressure required on the new brake. I ended up cleaning the original pedal and the perfect pedal went in the drawer.

 

[Atwork]

I've been there with the brake pedal, I bought 'the perfect pedal' mod for my g25 pedals (seen in pic) when my pedal was glitching. I had to reinforce my rig for the extra pressure required on the new brake. I ended up cleaning the original pedal and the perfect pedal went in the drawer.

For me the switch to a load cell brake made the biggest difference. I started with driving force then went to gtrs 2v3 with csr elite pedals. I then found my problem to be getting a set up that was stable, my modified end table was not cutting it. I bumped up to my club sport v2 and v3 pedals and the situation got worse. I finally broke down and got a rig. I love the set up but it can be a pain to pull it out so if I am just going to play for a little while I end up just playing something else because I don't want to miss the playing experience with my set up,lol. The wife recently said she could live with the set up in the front room if it is out of the way so maybe play more now that I have more time and less hassle. Yes I could have pressed the issue more earlier but pick you battles. She saw my attempt to pull my rig out from the other room and felt bad.

 

[hznbrq]

My thumb gets fatigued from using the directional pad and it's caused me to go off track or off my driving line numerous times in races. It has definitely affected my SR

 

[azrilnazli]

If you always looking for faster car and faster method..then stay with controller.

Those who are using wheels/pedal are people looking for immersion and try to treat GT-S as a sims, not a game

 

[TNR_KING_FILO]

Actually, I know Enzo_sim_driver uses a pad, and JP Lacombe only drove the game with a pad so far, yet still managed to get a top 8 EU ranking in one FIA test season, from his own words, pads can be faster than before on GT Sport, it's still slower but the gap has reduced. However, that's on a single lap, consistency is very hard to achieve, and it's worse when there's tyre wear. Although I don't think any pads will remain in top 10s when serious business really begins, we may still see one or two in top 24 races.

Wow enzo is still on a pad? really very impressive!

 

[KookiBirb]

For me the switch to a load cell brake made the biggest difference. I started with driving force then went to gtrs 2v3 with csr elite pedals. I then found my problem to be getting a set up that was stable, my modified end table was not cutting it. I bumped up to my club sport v2 and v3 pedals and the situation got worse. I finally broke down and got a rig. I love the set up but it can be a pain to pull it out so if I am just going to play for a little while I end up just playing something else because I don't want to miss the playing experience with my set up,lol. The wife recently said she could live with the set up in the front room if it is out of the way so maybe play more now that I have more time and less hassle. Yes I could have pressed the issue more earlier but pick you battles. She saw my attempt to pull my rig out from the other room and felt bad.

Yeah definitely dude, I agree with the Load Cell brakes as it is sooooo much easier to modulate how much you brake in comparison to the triggers on a pad or a soft brake pedal. Really, you could buy a cheap steering wheel (Such as a Logitech Driving Force Pro) and be a hella fast driver with a brake pedal that has a load cell.

 

[GT_Alex74]

Meh, I'm not really into load cells, a firm pedal is fine in real life, but gaming at home I'd rather modualte with a flick of the ankle. Although the fact I'm still using a desk chair with wheels might be a reason for this.

 

[Stu-Evo]

the proof is in the daily time trials. when do you see the top 10 using a controller? this is old but it's relevant.

Yesterday, all the top 5 bar none in the VW wagon race, Suzuka Gr.3 and Dragon Trail Gr.4 were all pad users. Obvious to see and frustrating if you are a wheel user......

GTS like GTA Online racing, slows you down or stops you accelerating as fast when your wheels are not straight.

Because pad user can be constantly adjusting off centre, so they are able to get more speed, it's only tenths but they all add up.

Example being that oval track in the samba today, it looks like the fastest time guy is using a pad, instead of one smooth curve at each end of the oval, he appears to be adjusting off centre lots of times, if he's using a wheel to do this then he can't be having much fun as it wouldn't be very immersive to use a wheel like that lol.

....totally agree and per my point above, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve executed a perfect series of fast bends on Dragon Trail or Kyoto and just watched a pad user ahead of me pull away twitching like crazy. It seems to me that the way GTS is *configured* is this rapid twitching does not keep you from gaining speed BUT even a small steering angle on the wheel WILL stop you accelerating as fast.

Same into hairpins. I have noticed pad users can brake later and be more aggressive on turn in. Take the hairpin at Suzuka and the corner which is 2 prior. I’ve watched replays pf pad users carry waayyyyyy higher speed into those corners and the nose in on the brakes and accelerate out like a scalded cat but if you try balancing the car like that with a wheel you will literally fly off the black stuff. I was a 2:00:781 at Suzuka yday so not too shabby....

 

[aedseed]

Your issue is not that the DS4 has some sort of magical advantage - you’re just not getting anywhere near utilising the potential of your wheel.

I can run 58’s with a controller easily enough, but I’m in the low 55’s with a wheel.

The level of fine control over steering, gas and brakes with a wheel and pedals is on another level.

I know I am not maximizing the potential of the wheel, I'm a novice wheel user and still learning. I've been watching IOF_Racing17 (Igor Fraga) pull 1:54 easily (using a wheel) and his control and finesse is insane, and probably wouldn't be possible using a controller. But nonetheless it can't be denied that there is definitely some stuff going on behind the scenes with the DS4 to give some artificial boosts, and it's hard to quantify. Obviously it was intended by PD to attempt to normalize controller and wheel users.

And I'm not saying DS4 is superior to a wheel. Overall, the most skilled wheel user will likely excel over the most skilled pad user over all the tracks, especially when it comes to consistency. But on some specific tracks or sectors, the boosts the DS4 gives cannot be matched by even the best wheel user. It's just a bit surprising to observe.

Not complaining about it and I don't think it should be nerfed... Casual players just having fun using DS4 should have some internal assists to make the game playable and more competitive in sport mode with the hardcore wheel users.

Yesterday, all the top 5 bar none in the VW wagon race, Suzuka Gr.3 and Dragon Trail Gr.4 were all pad users. Obvious to see and frustrating if you are a wheel user......

....totally agree and per my point above, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve executed a perfect series of fast bends on Dragon Trail or Kyoto and just watched a pad user ahead of me pull away twitching like crazy. It seems to me that the way GTS is *configured* is this rapid twitching does not keep you from gaining speed BUT even a small steering angle on the wheel WILL stop you accelerating as fast.

Same into hairpins. I have noticed pad users can brake later and be more aggressive on turn in. Take the hairpin at Suzuka and the corner which is 2 prior. I’ve watched replays pf pad users carry waayyyyyy higher speed into those corners and the nose in on the brakes and accelerate out like a scalded cat but if you try balancing the car like that with a wheel you will literally fly off the black stuff. I was a 2:00:781 at Suzuka yday so not too shabby....

This is what I have noticed on Nurb GP, I could brake way later going into the first hairpin and accelerate out of it faster. Same with the chicane section.

 

[Racin-Rev]

I got the t150 from GameStop. It seem like those controller players keep being wobbly but still keep speed like in forza. I'm on the wheel and if I wobble I will spin-out like in pcars. Do anybody know if they have a slight advantage because this can be annoying and unfair.

When I first started with a wheel the learning curve was about 2 weeks after years with a pad. I started with a G25 and now have a T300. I know I'm faster, but that doesn't make me fast by most standards. The wheel and pedals make the game much more fun and consistent.

 

[Stotty]

Yesterday, all the top 5 bar none in the VW wagon race, Suzuka Gr.3 and Dragon Trail Gr.4 were all pad users. Obvious to see and frustrating if you are a wheel user......

How many known fast guys bothered to even put a qualifying time on the boards in the bus event?

As for GT3 at Suzuka... no way did a DS4 user get in the top 10, unless it was 5 minutes after the events changed and no fast wheel users had run any laps.

....totally agree and per my point above, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve executed a perfect series of fast bends on Dragon Trail or Kyoto just watched a pad user ahead of me pull away twitching like crazy. It seems to me that the way GTS is *configured* is this rapid twitching does not keep you from gaining speed BUT even a small steering angle on the wheel WILL stop you accelerating as fast.

Same into hairpins. I have noticed pad users can brake later and be more aggressive on turn in. Take the hairpin at Suzuka and the corner which is 2 prior. I’ve watched replays pf pad users carry waayyyyyy higher speed into those corners and the nose in on the brakes and accelerate out like a scalded cat but if you try balancing the car like that with a wheel you will literally fly off the black stuff. I was a 2:00:781 at Suzuka yday so not too shabby....

Your 'frustration' is caused by your lack of skill with a wheel than any advantage a DS4 user has. 2.00 laps in a GT3 car at Suzuka is at least 2-3 seconds off a fast wheel time (if I remember qualifying times correctly from the last time I ran GT3 at Suzi, fast laps are in the 57/58 range).

No way a DS4 user can trail brake as effectively as a competent wheel user... which is critical to braking as effectively as possible in to hairpins. And no way they can accelerate out as effectively either - you cannot apply partial throttle/steering with a DS4 anywhere near as effectively as you can with wheel/pedals... which is critical to fast exits.

Perhaps you should spend less time complaining about some perceived advantage DS4 users have and more time working on your wheel skills

I know I am not maximizing the potential of the wheel, I'm a novice wheel user and still learning. I've been watching IOF_Racing17 (Igor Fraga) pull 1:54 easily (using a wheel) and his control and finesse is insane, and probably wouldn't be possible using a controller. But nonetheless it can't be denied that there is definitely some stuff going on behind the scenes with the DS4 to give some artificial boosts, and it's hard to quantify. Obviously it was intended by PD to attempt to normalize controller and wheel users.

And I'm not saying DS4 is superior to a wheel. Overall, the most skilled wheel user will likely excel over the most skilled pad user over all the tracks, especially when it comes to consistency. But on some specific tracks or sectors, the boosts the DS4 gives cannot be matched by even the best wheel user. It's just a bit surprising to observe.

Not complaining about it and I don't think it should be nerfed... Casual players just having fun using DS4 should have some internal assists to make the game playable and more competitive in sport mode with the hardcore wheel users.

This is what I have noticed on Nurb GP, I could brake way later going into the first hairpin and accelerate out of it faster. Same with the chicane section.

Forget consistency, a wheel and pedals is just faster. By a significant margin.

Just because YOU can't brake as late/accelerate as early with a wheel compared to using a DS4 does not prove your point... Again, all this proves is your lack of skill with the wheel (as you say yourself - you're a novice wheel user), not a particular advantage with the DS4.

Unless you can you back up your claim that a DS4 can quicker than a properly fast wheel user? On any track or even a single corner? Maybe try downloading the FL ghost of a #1 time and run against it with your DS4... see how much faster you can go (or can't).

 

[breakbeatfreak]

When my wheel was broken I drove with ds4 and my driver skill went from S to C within 5 days - im about 3-4 seconds faster per lap using my fanatec gt2 wheel with cronus pro

 

[Mr616]

Well, I got my T150 today. I've had a few hours with it and although I'm a fish out of water, the benefits are already shining through even though my pace is not up there yet.

Turn in, and throttle application out of a corner is a huge improvement. My braking points have all moved about 2-3 meters further towards the corners which has made me realise why wheel users were nearly running into the back of me at certain chicains and corners. Braking is better with a wheel. I've just been running the GR4 sport race qualifying and am running high 1.41.xxx to low 1.42.xxx already and there's plenty of time for me to make up. I feel like I'm trundling along.

It's gonna be brain training for a few weeks but my time will tumble i'm sure. I'm currently hanging on to DR:A by my finger tips but once I get my head around the feel of the wheel, I reckon I can hang with mid DR:A players.

Pad is not easy. A pad does not "let you off" with anything. So far, in my short experience, a wheel is easier.

 

[eAxis Patohm]

How many known fast guys bothered to even put a qualifying time on the boards in the bus event?

As for GT3 at Suzuka... no way did a DS4 user get in the top 10, unless it was 5 minutes after the events changed and no fast wheel users had run any laps.



Your 'frustration' is caused by your lack of skill with a wheel than any advantage a DS4 user has. 2.00 laps in a GT3 car at Suzuka is at least 2-3 seconds off a fast wheel time (if I remember qualifying times correctly from the last time I ran GT3 at Suzi, fast laps are in the 57/58 range).

No way a DS4 user can trail brake as effectively as a competent wheel user... which is critical to braking as effectively as possible in to hairpins. And no way they can accelerate out as effectively either - you cannot apply partial throttle/steering with a DS4 anywhere near as effectively as you can with wheel/pedals... which is critical to fast exits.

Perhaps you should spend less time complaining about some perceived advantage DS4 users have and more time working on your wheel skills



Forget consistency, a wheel and pedals is just faster. By a significant margin.

Just because YOU can't brake as late/accelerate as early with a wheel compared to using a DS4 does not prove your point... Again, all this proves is your lack of skill with the wheel (as you say yourself - you're a novice wheel user), not a particular advantage with the DS4.

Unless you can you back up your claim that a DS4 can quicker than a properly fast wheel user? On any track or even a single corner? Maybe try downloading the FL ghost of a #1 time and run against it with your DS4... see how much faster you can go (or can't).

Top times EU in Suzuka were low 1:58 (BoP costs 0,3 seconds now in Porsche) ^^

I have not seen a Pad Driver in the Top 10 EU GT3 class... Normally the Pad Driver are faster in lower classes. Top Pad Driver like TX3_Devil,TRL_Fuvaros or TRL_Spurgy777 are very good in GR4 but not that competitiv in GR3.

In the end it does not matter. Wheelplayer are able to get World Record times on every combination. Pad Drivers have difficulties in higher classes. Wheels make a lot more fun, so ist easy what to drive

 

[JacksHerer]

If you are nowhere near reaching the games/tracks/cars/tires limit with a pad, you will probably be able to go faster with a wheel.

There is no denying the twitchy cornering with a pad enables the wheels to be centred which enables speed to be gained.

People can use their thumbs as quick if not quicker than they can use their ankles or arms. With practice people can judge slight movement on a pad with their skin, better than they can with their feet even if barefoot.

If people are more than a second off the leaderboards, then they still have a vast amount of improvement to make , which they could improve of their self whichever input they use.

Using a wheel feels more natural to me, but their are plenty of gamers who could use pads to write their name.

 

[Obelisk]

Not to force a dead thread alive, but I made a short video on this, a side by side of the Mazda Atenza Gr.4 on both a wheel and controller at Dragon's Trail.

 

[andyparks]

Not to force a dead thread alive, but I made a short video on this, a side by side of the Mazda Atenza Gr.4 on both a wheel and controller at Dragon's Trail.

This is the worst game realised for steering wheels I don't understand why they released a £700 wheel when you can't set it up

 

[JacksHerer]

Not to force a dead thread alive, but...

LOL You resuscitate a dead thread and then kill it with a pretty conclusive video.
I'd like to see the same test done with the samba on the oval track, I'm convinced twitchy wheel centering is the pads advantage there.

 

[Sean Renon]

Reduced my DS4 sensitivity yesterday to help with snappy steering making the rear step out and suddenly I can't run through the Dragon Trail chicane like I used too because it just won't go left-to-right fast enough :/ #DS4Problems

Ugh, I have the DS4 steering sensitivity set to -2 and I have been struggling with this goddamn chicane awhile now since the grip update. Are you telling me if I bump my sensitivity up I can full throttle thru this chicane easier?

 

[Obelisk]

LOL You resuscitate a dead thread and then kill it with a pretty conclusive video.
I'd like to see the same test done with the samba on the oval track, I'm convinced twitchy wheel centering is the pads advantage there.

Maybe I can arrange that.

 

[JacksHerer]

I think with wheel and pad, if you apply too much steering your tires wont grip and give you the steering you want.
Less is more.

@Obelisk hopefully you can give the samba 5 gears to emulate that sport daily several weeks back.

 

[Stotty]

Not to force a dead thread alive, but

Really? Couldn’t you have just let this crap just die a long, slow death?

 

[Obelisk]

Really? Couldn’t you have just let this crap just die a long, slow death?

It was something that warranted concrete evidence. I had meant to get the video out sooner, but more important things sidelined it.

 

[Stotty]

It was something that warranted concrete evidence. I had meant to get the video out sooner, but more important things sidelined it.

Unfortunately, the people who believe that the reason they aren’t fast is because controllers have some magical advantage will find reasons to doubt any evidence that doesn’t support their view.

 

[Obelisk]

Unfortunately, the people who believe that the reason they aren’t fast is because controllers have some magical advantage will find reasons to doubt any evidence that doesn’t support their view.

That's their problem, not mine.

Honestly, I can't get anything more perfect than those laps I presented above on either platform.

 

[Stotty]

That's their problem, not mine.

Honestly, I can't get anything more perfect than those laps I presented above on either platform.

Ah, but you didn’t test the one car/track combo, that although is pretty much irrelevant to the rest of the game, might prove their point.

 

[Obelisk]

Ah, but you didn’t test the one car/track combo, that although is pretty much irrelevant to the rest of the game, might prove their point.

And if they do raise that point, I will be more than happy to come right back with matching laps on both controllers.