Is it time to bin Sport Mode?

[cleanLX]

Only problem with sport mode is... people, or, gamers...

My suggestions to make sport mode better...
- Remove all ghosting (creates unpredictable and often unavoidable situations).
- Remove hand of the almighty (creates unpredictable and often unavoidable situations).
- Make penalties the same across the board (fairness, and consequences shared).
- Bring back P1.13 penalties (I know I'm in the minority here, but not alone... sure was making for clean racing).
- All penalties served in pits or at race end (current brake slamming creates unpredictable and often unavoidable situations).
Those things should greatly transform the "gamers" into "racers".

I rarely have the time to race online these days, and have not ran in P1.15 yet, and will not have the time for a few weeks...
Having said that, in P1.14 and prior, I very much enjoyed the online racing... even tho there were moments of unfairness in the penalties... sometimes I was the victim (IMO, and likely biased towards myself, human nature I guess), and on a couple occasions I messed up, took another racer out, and to be honest, the game did not penalize me enough in those situations... gave the spot back, which cost several places, often all the way to last, then drove around at the back to feel the shame.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

That's factually untrue, less than 2% of drivers are even S rank.
also, no amount of tweaking is going to satisfy people. give up, your cries are not appreciated.
PD laxes the penalties: Crys
PD clamps down on penalties: even more crying
PD makes higher rank penalties equivalent to lower rank penalties: cries
PD makes higher ranks penalties more severe: even more crying
PD starts penalizing back bumping: crying intensifies despite this was the #1 damn request.

Cry more, while the rest of us enjoy the damn game.
there's no way in hell every single sports race is going to be curated by a live human, and there's no way in hell PD is going to develop AI smart enough to replace a human when actual computer scientist haven't managed that yet.

Oh and just to embolden your tears, Lobby racing in GT5- sport has been dirtier than B-S rank Sports races. Iv driven in some good lobbies along many mods here . Heck Mad Max was grinding my bumper on Bathurst and we just brushed it off as good old racing.

If you're getting mad at a video game, you need to re-evaluate your life and/or sell the game.

Just as others don't speak on behalf of the entire community, neither do you. Don't tell people what they can or can't do - fix your attitude.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Only problem with sport mode is... people, or, gamers...

My suggestions to make sport mode better...
- Remove all ghosting (creates unpredictable and often unavoidable situations).
- Remove hand of the almighty (creates unpredictable and often unavoidable situations).
- Make penalties the same across the board (fairness, and consequences shared).
- Bring back P1.13 penalties (I know I'm in the minority here, but not alone... sure was making for clean racing).
- All penalties served in pits or at race end (current brake slamming creates unpredictable and often unavoidable situations).
Those things should greatly transform the "gamers" into "racers".

I rarely have the time to race online these days, and have not ran in P1.15 yet, and will not have the time for a few weeks...
Having said that, in P1.14 and prior, I very much enjoyed the online racing... even tho there were moments of unfairness in the penalties... sometimes I was the victim (IMO, and likely biased towards myself, human nature I guess), and on a couple occasions I messed up, took another racer out, and to be honest, the game did not penalize me enough in those situations... gave the spot back, which cost several places, often all the way to last, then drove around at the back to feel the shame.

Ghosting prevents a crash turning into a complete race stand still. It would be interesting to see what happens without ghosting on Tokyo.
Without ghosting, resets would instantly create accidents instead of just slight heart attacks. (The game reset a car 1 foot in front of me last night on brand's hatch, quite the jump scare) Of course resets should piss off, yet bad track re-entries would create more chaos without ghosting.
Ghosting should be extended to auto drive. Last night I received a 10 sec penalty from someone hitting pause in a corner, auto drive steered into me. I've also been nailed before by auto drive re-entering the track badly while someone was in the options to rage quit.

Perhaps you mean resets with hand of the almighty? Resets need to go.
Also give penalties for bad track re-entries. Still ghosted, yet assign a penalty for going through another car. It's your responsibility to merge safely. To make things fair, the penalty the car gets for knocking someone off should be equal to how much time that car lost in the crash.

 

[ShadowDMC]

I love it when people compare GTS' penalty system to iRacing's and be all like "iRacing's penalty system is perfect, absolutely nothing wrong with it!"

It's an AI. At the level we have with AI right now, it's smart, but AI will never be able to replace a human marshal who can predict intent and place their ethics onto a judgement.

No AI penalty system will ever be perfect (at this stage in AI development, at least), so people should get used to that.

With that said, work does still need to be done to the system in Sport Mode, but as long as you can get good matchmaking, the racing is good and, 9 times out of 10, clean.

Edit: Just remembered my main strife with the penalty system as it stands: NO PIT LANE PENALTIES. When you take a pit stop there is no option to sit the penalty time in the stall before the crew start working on the car. If they added that, it would make an interesting dynamic in Race C.

Also forced drive-through pit penalties would be nice.

 

[Brzlav]

There's been complaining about injust race penalties from day 1 and complaining continued no matter how PD tweaked the system.

As long as a computer-based sytem can not mimic human thinking / ethic / intention and thus can not opportion guilt, it's gotta be a poor pack of compromising ...

A human race steward wouldn't change the fact that people think they have been treated unfairly. Just look at real world racing. Professional drivers know the rules a lot better than the average GTS player and they still think they are treated unfairly most of the time when they receive a penalty.

I am not denying that the system could be improved in places but given the fact that people can apply different limits to their safety comfort zone than in real life as they do not need to conserve their car, health, reputation and chance for a new driver contract, the system is working just fine.

 

[TamasToth]

Forget the ratings, try to drive clean and be the rating you want to race and just enjoy the game.

Trying to race clean, keeping a little distance from the battle in front, just to be bumped or nose-dived by the follower and therefore being penalised - is just not enjoyable that much. Again: we are on the same track, same time, and racing together with different "rules" applicable for us.
We can declare it as normal, but in this case it is a different sport. Let me see the information of the ones in front and behind, what's their rankings, who can be matched fairly and who will not be as cautious as the others due to different consequences. And call it a Racing-Investigating-Accounting event.

 

[Macboyilija]

I think its not so much PD being the problem, but the players.

As for PD:
- SR needs to be changed a little. I made suggestions for this earlier
- PD needs to join GT planet a little more and learn

Thats it. For the rest Sport mode to me is utterly brilliant !

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

That depends on the skill of the player, for me the AI is very hard to beat but then I am not the best racer, sometimes I will blitz them, other times I'm 3 laps down...

How exactly did you go three laps down to AI?

 

[cleanLX]

Ghosting prevents a crash turning into a complete race stand still. It would be interesting to see what happens without ghosting on Tokyo.
Without ghosting, resets would instantly create accidents instead of just slight heart attacks. (The game reset a car 1 foot in front of me last night on brand's hatch, quite the jump scare) Of course resets should piss off, yet bad track re-entries would create more chaos without ghosting.
Ghosting should be extended to auto drive. Last night I received a 10 sec penalty from someone hitting pause in a corner, auto drive steered into me. I've also been nailed before by auto drive re-entering the track badly while someone was in the options to rage quit.

Perhaps you mean resets with hand of the almighty? Resets need to go.
Also give penalties for bad track re-entries. Still ghosted, yet assign a penalty for going through another car. It's your responsibility to merge safely. To make things fair, the penalty the car gets for knocking someone off should be equal to how much time that car lost in the crash.

I did mean, abandon the "reset" (hand of the almighty) all together.
I see your points regarding ghosting, and could live with them... but would like to see what no ghosting would play like... I typically avoid ghosted cars (cannot bring myself to drive through them)... maybe it would create even higher "awareness"... maybe it would be a disaster...

 

[John Crellin]

I think its not so much PD being the problem, but the players.

As for PD:
- SR needs to be changed a little. I made suggestions for this earlier
- PD needs to join GT planet a little more and learn

Thats it. For the rest Sport mode to me is utterly brilliant !

I think part of the problem is they are listening to GTP members. Almost all of the changes made to the penalty system were asked for in one way or the other in one if these threads such as :

-harsher penalties in higher DR/SR classes
-one bad race should demote you multiple SR ranks
-remove the yellow flag penalty
-give harsher penalties to the guy in the inside
- stricter track limits
- tougher penalty scrubbing
-ghost lapped cars

I think what we got was a case of having too many cooks in the kitchen.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I think part of the problem is they are listening to GTP members. Almost all of the changes made to the penalty system were asked for in one way or the other in one if these threads such as :

-harsher penalties in higher DR/SR classes
-one bad race should demote you multiple SR ranks
-remove the yellow flag penalty
-give harsher penalties to the guy in the inside
- stricter track limits
- tougher penalty scrubbing
-ghost lapped cars

I think what we got was a case of having too many cooks in the kitchen.

I think you give this place far more credit than you should.

 

[John Crellin]

I think you give this place far more credit than you should.

There is a fairly high correlation with the things griped about in these threads and the updates. I'm not saying they take marching orders from us here but they definently take the temperature by reading these threads and I don't doubt they take specific gripes on features into some consideration.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

There is a fairly high correlation with the things griped about in these threads and the updates. I'm not saying they take marching orders from us here but they definently take the temperature by reading these threads and I don't doubt they take specific gripes on features into some consideration.

Not sure if this is your first account or exactly how long you've been here, but I've followed this place since GT4 and officially joined before GT5 came out, and to be honest, I don't see it. Jordan has acknowledged there is some level of awareness from PD about GTP and from time to time they've read, but then again this isn't the only place to talk about GT games. Thus what issues I see here, I see in other places talking about GTS and it's pretty obvious what issues there are without having to read these threads.

If you have some stats on this "high correlation" that'd be interesting to see however.

 

[Mr616]

*Edited/deleted. Way off topic.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

Any S/S driver should be topping those leaderboards when the top 10 is mostly populated by A/B DR drivers in off-peak hours to be honest. So often I see guys at/near the top of the leaderboards bottle it when it actually counts. By the end of the day I'm rarely in the top 10 of a leaderboard outside of Monza, but if that means I'm more consistent and comfortable in the race then so what

Fair enough about your points about my Top 10 times, and I guess I didn't make my point across since I didn't post screenshots of my associated wins with that

Spoiler: So here you go

Here's one from my Skyline Top 10

Yes you can say that I'm racing in the lower rankings again, but I don't think I can pull off a 30 second gap and let only 3 other people finish if I wasn't consistently fast with my lap times, no?

Top 10 people aren't as inconsistent as you think they are. Off-peak hours? Yeah, maybe. You said it yourself that the people populating the Top 10 during those hours are in the lower rankings. But no way are the final Top 10 drivers (Or S/S drivers in general) inconsistent at all

 

[cleanLX]

*Edited/deleted. Way off topic.

oh... you edited too soon, your post was spot on IMO.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

I love it when people compare GTS' penalty system to iRacing's and be all like "iRacing's penalty system is perfect, absolutely nothing wrong with it!"

Yeah, you only have to visit an iRacing message board to see the massive overwhelming complaint about how it's impossible to get out of the Rookies class. There's an entire genre of YouTube videos just about how to get out of the rookies class in iRacing.

Can you imagine hundreds of YouTube videos about how to get out of the SR: C ranking in GT Sport?

*wrong ranking posted

 

[Mr616]

Fair enough about your points about my Top 10 times, and I guess I didn't make my point across since I didn't post screenshots of my associated wins with that

Spoiler: So here you go

Here's one from my Skyline Top 10
View attachment 727063
Yes you can say that I'm racing in the lower rankings again, but I don't think I can pull off a 30 second gap and let only 3 other people finish if I wasn't consistently fast with my lap times, no?

Top 10 people aren't as inconsistent as you think they are. Off-peak hours? Yeah, maybe. You said it yourself that the people populating the Top 10 during those hours are in the lower rankings. But no way are the final Top 10 drivers (Or S/S drivers in general) inconsistent at all

There are however, to many at DR:S who shouldn't be there. Likewise DR:A.

I get the feeling PD are to scared to call people average. I'm on my way to DR:S but no way should I be there. I consider S to be the absolute best. The pinnacle and it just isn't at the moment. DR:S should be an elite (and smaller group) group, but the driving on display says otherwise. To bigger spread of pace in DR:S and maybe even DR:A imo.

oh... you edited too soon, your post was spot on IMO.

Haha. Busted. It was way off topic and I've said similar more than once

Thanks though bud.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

There are however, to many at DR:S who shouldn't be there. Likewise DR:A.

I get the feeling PD are to scared to call people average. I'm on my way to DR:S but no way should I be there. I consider S to be the absolute best. The pinnacle and it just isn't at the moment. DR:S should be an elite (and smaller group) group, but the driving on display says otherwise. To bigger spread of pace in DR:S and maybe even DR:A imo.



Haha. Busted. It was way off topic and I've said similar more than once

Thanks though bud.

Last time I checked, there's only around 1000 DR S drivers out of all the players in GTS (I can't check it right now since my phone won't load jasguer's site), so I think DR S is still a small and elite group

Although, I don't fully disagree with you, since there are some DR S people who are constantly at midfield since, I don't know, high B or something, and only got to S since they keep finishing at the upper half. It's a testament to the consistency of S/S drivers, but pace-wise I do think S/S could use a little bit more... elitism, if that's the right word. I don't mind getting kicked out of S/S if they add a bit more elitism, since I know that I am even more guaranteed to be the best of the best if I get there again

 

[KingFrog]

Just as others don't speak on behalf of the entire community, neither do you. Don't tell people what they can or can't do - fix your attitude.

Not an argument . My point is PD has changed things to accommodate the community . People will never be happy .
Also nice one on ignoring the guy who said I was " pretending to like the game and to go play Mario kart " . It has issues but no amount of tweaking is going to solve the " complains " . Complaining for the sake of complaining is dumb . At this point suggesting and implementing changes is just going to result in more crying .

 

[Mr616]

Last time I checked, there's only around 1000 DR S drivers out of all the players in GTS (I can't check it right now since my phone won't load jasguer's site), so I think DR S is still a small and elite group

Although, I don't fully disagree with you, since there are some DR S people who are constantly at midfield since, I don't know, high B or something, and only got to S since they keep finishing at the upper half. It's a testament to the consistency of S/S drivers, but pace-wise I do think S/S could use a little bit more... elitism, if that's the right word. I don't mind getting kicked out of S/S if they add a bit more elitism, since I know that I am even more guaranteed to be the best of the best if I get there again

After being in a lobby with Twissy and Zonko yesterday, they were mighty fast. Like, stupidly quicker than the rest of the grid. Then there were DR:S at the back with some super fast DR:A and some absolutely woeful DR:A in the mix.

How is that rating working with such a spread? I'd trip up top SR:S racers and feel like I don't belong. I let Twissy through after he copped a penalty because it wasn't worth the fight. I'd learn more from following him and him making me room by overtaking the guy infront of me that I could not pressure into a mistake and couldn't put an overtake on myself. Low and behold it worked. Twissy passed and I followed. Race craft

If the rankings worked as you'd expect, race pace would be more equal, as would driver behaviour and racecraft. But while little Billy decides he needs to "rank up" to DR:S and feels he should be entitled to, we will always have this blurred view of what kind of people we are matched with.

Get tough PD. Tell me I'm only DR:B but match me accordingly. Put people in DR and SR where they actually should be instead of ego stroking everybody into thinking they are a potential F1 champ. They are not. Even some fast people can't race for ****. Get them out of DR:S SR:S

Rant over.

 

[StuntmanRich]

I just went from a safety rating of S (which I’ve had for sometime) to B in one ill fated Gr. 4 race at Monza. Genuinely don’t know how either.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

After being in a lobby with Twissy and Zonko yesterday, they were mighty fast. Like, stupidly quicker than the rest of the grid. Then there were DR:S at the back with some super fast DR:A and some absolutely woeful DR:A in the mix.

How is that rating working with such a spread? I'd trip up top SR:S racers and feel like I don't belong. I let Twissy through after he copped a penalty because it wasn't worth the fight. I'd learn more from following him and him making me room by overtaking the guy infront of me that I could not pressure into a mistake and couldn't put an overtake on myself. Low and behold it worked. Twissy passed and I followed. Race craft

If the rankings worked as you'd expect, race pace would be more equal, as would driver behaviour and racecraft. But while little Billy decides he needs to "rank up" to DR:S and feels he should be entitled to, we will always have this blurred view of what kind of people we are matched with.

Get tough PD. Tell me I'm only DR:B but match me accordingly. Put people in DR and SR where they actually should be instead of ego stroking everybody into thinking they are a potential F1 champ. They are not. Even some fast people can't race for ****. Get them out of DR:S SR:S

Rant over.

You're giving yourself too little credit. If you can stick behind the likes of Twissy I think you're a bonafide S/S, or a very high A/S if PD matches us accordingly

But I think the reason why some people get an underserving S/S is because of the current Elo system the points reward system use. Because the net amount of points that is added and deducted across the whole field after the race should equal to zero, you will almost always gain points if you're in the upper half, hence why "slow" S/S drivers are a thing

 

[Mr616]

You're giving yourself too little credit. If you can stick behind the likes of Twissy I think you're a bonafide S/S, or a very high A/S if PD matches us accordingly

But I think the reason why some people get an underserving S/S is because of the current Elo system the points reward system use. Because the net amount of points that is added and deducted across the whole field after the race should equal to zero, you will almost always gain points if you're in the upper half, hence why "slow" S/S drivers are a thing

I got my rant head on sorry lol.

I love sport mode and have many more great races than bad. The ranking works very well in most cases and the racing is, on the whole, clean. I sound like a doom and gloom merchant. I'm not, honest.

You sir are quick (but I was only a 10th off your Lagos time, then @PirovacBoy turned up in his 458 a did us both lol).

 

[cleanLX]

If the rankings worked as you'd expect, race pace would be more equal, as would driver behaviour and racecraft. But while little Billy decides he needs to "rank up" to DR:S and feels he should be entitled to, we will always have this blurred view of what kind of people we are matched with.

Get tough PD. Tell me I'm only DR:B but match me accordingly. Put people in DR and SR where they actually should be instead of ego stroking everybody into thinking they are a potential F1 champ. They are not. Even some fast people can't race for ****. Get them out of DR:S SR:S

Rant over.

No no no... keep up with the rants, you are on a role, and on point... I just may have to stalk you today, I'm loving your posts.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

I got my rant head on sorry lol.

I love sport mode and have many more great races than bad. The ranking works very well in most cases and the racing is, on the whole, clean. I sound like a doom and gloom merchant. I'm not, honest.

You sir are quick (but I was only a 10th off your Lagos time, then @PirovacBoy turned up in his 458 a did us both lol).

Same here, love sport mode too
I expected it tho he's one of my benchmarks currently. If I can get within 1-2/10ths of his time I'm 90% sure I can get poles
I'm happy to report that you sir, are quick as well

 

[Sander 001]

).
Those things should greatly transform the "gamers" into "racers".

That may be the most naïve thing I've ever read on the Internet!

 

[Chevy Heavy]

They just need to get rid of these assymetrical penalties. I just got (literally) bumped down to DR B from DR A tonight and it's a totally different game now
I get bumped and I don't get 10sec penalties. My SR drops are not as severe (in fact I have had only one since)
It's just stupid to have a group of racers on the same track all playing by totally different rules.

This.

I think this is the biggest problem we have now with Sport Mode. It's obvious they can't (or won't) fill a grid with players of the same DR, so we get races with people ranging from S to D. Now some of these lower ranked drivers may be as fast as the DR/S or A, however they aren't subjected to the same penalties for contact. If you're going to have different rules for different ranks then they should be matched accordingly.

I really enjoy the Sports races, but PD are doing their best to change my mind. I had some great racing after 1.14, then they take a step back with 1.15. I haven't had a lot of time to race this past week but after a long day at work decided to try the Red Bull Jr. race. Spent about an hour qualifying and started P3. First l slow for a corner and 2 cars split me and I come out with a 5 sec penalty. Then I take another corner and receive another 5 sec that I didn't get while qualifying. Then someone hits me in the rear, 1 sec and then starts rising. I pull over and serve and this was just the first lap. Second lap the same, 10 secs of penalties and I'm in last place. Spent the rest of the race running by myself and only passed one car when he went off.

Turned the game off after that and haven't raced since. Partly because of work and partly because it's just not fun when penalties ruin the game. Until they make the rules the same for everyone this will continue to sap any enjoyment from Sport Mode. Why do you think people are creating alternate accounts to play on? It takes to much time to get your rank up to race with others around your skill level that you can have good, clean races with. Then to have it all taken away by one or two bad races through the fault of others.

 

[GTPorsche]

There are however, to many at DR:S who shouldn't be there. Likewise DR:A.

I get the feeling PD are to scared to call people average. I'm on my way to DR:S but no way should I be there. I consider S to be the absolute best. The pinnacle and it just isn't at the moment. DR:S should be an elite (and smaller group) group, but the driving on display says otherwise. To bigger spread of pace in DR:S and maybe even DR:A imo.

As someone that's 2500 points off of DR S at the moment, that's already being in the top 1% of Sport mode players. I think the system is fair enough the way it is given the statistics.

 

[PirovacBoy]

I got my rant head on sorry lol.

I love sport mode and have many more great races than bad. The ranking works very well in most cases and the racing is, on the whole, clean. I sound like a doom and gloom merchant. I'm not, honest.

You sir are quick (but I was only a 10th off your Lagos time, then @PirovacBoy turned up in his 458 a did us both lol).

Haha,yeah you know I simply couldn’t resist after I saw your Names and your Lap times on my list, I felt the urgent need to prove that the 458 deserves some more respect
But anyway i’d like to add something to the topic and the last few Comments I read. First of all I stopped playing Sport Mode a long time ago, and I don’t think i‘ll return. For me it’s not only the Penalty System that i blame for stopping to play Sport Mode. It’s just the disrespectful behavior, or racing against People with a wrong attitude.
I don’t care if I race against a Dr.E or a Dr.S I treat EVERYONE with respect. But Sport Mode showed me that it’s a One way street. I don’t care if i‘m 1 or 10 Seconds faster than the Driver in front of me. I‘ll only try to pass if I can do it clean without the possibility to ruin mine or more important his race. That’s my understanding of Racing Etiquette.
Sadly, the respect is not on both sides the same. Some will try to almost do anything to get past. An egoistic attitude paired with arrogance, only thinking how much Dr a race win will net. No Sir, that’s not my understanding of racing.
The Dr greediness is abnormal. It’s poisoning the whole Race Atmos.
Don’t get me wrong this is no rant, honestly, it’s just my experience that I made.
On the other Side I found more than a handful of really honorful similar minded People which I race against on regular bases in my Lobbies like you @Mr616. This is where I get my daily fix on GtSport.
Aha, And before I forget, I share the same opinion like @Alpha Cipher. You would be already a Dr.S, IF! you finally stop messing around with pointless Cars flipping them from Pontius to Pilatus and 🤬 finally stick with the 458.