Is the badge worth the price of admission?

[Duke]

Vague clutch and total lack of power notwithstanding?

Huh? Vague clutch? Mine feels terrific. I know exactly where the bite point is, and I can reach it in microseconds. I can start on a steep hill with less than an inch of backroll. I've never had any issues with the clutch in any of the BMWs I've ever driven, except my ex-coworker's 170,000-mile eBay Special 540i.

You BMW people baffle me

You keep saying "total lack of power" but that's mostly because you make your own 0-60 times up and then insist they're gospel. Bring your Audi by here on your way back to school, and we'll go heads up.

 

[///M-Spec]

I'll run the winner


M

 

[1X83Z]

Huh? Vague clutch? Mine feels terrific. I know exactly where the bite point is, and I can reach it in microseconds. I can start on a steep hill with less than an inch of backroll. I've never had any issues with the clutch in any of the BMWs I've ever driven, except my ex-coworker's 170,000-mile eBay Special 540i.

Eh. I've driven dozens of BMWs and am always astonished at the lightness of the clutch and the lack of feedback it gives. (SAME CAN BE SAID FOR THE STEERING!!!) A few weeks ago I got a run in a new 535i manual and was blown away. I'm sure it takes some getting used to. What doesn't.

You keep saying "total lack of power" but that's mostly because you make your own 0-60 times up and then insist they're gospel. Bring your Audi by here on your way back to school, and we'll go heads up.

My Audi is unbelievably, sadly, scarily slow... and yet I have six more horsepower than you. I raced an E36 328i and won - although I'm unsure if you can consider such a pathetic contest a race. Just admit the thing is slow!!

 

[Blake]

Hey Doug – my penis is bigger than yours etc.

 

[V1P3R]

Luxury cars in general are worthless... Is it worth owning a Luxury car? No.

 

[1X83Z]

Hey Doug – my penis is bigger than yours etc.

How is this related??? It should be directed at Duke -- I'll rag on my POS trash heap of a car all day long; he refuses to admit his has a single fault.

 

[Blake]

It should be directed at Duke

I was mainly pointing it at you for the 6 more horses comment. Power isn’t everything. In fact, give me driving dynamics any day.

That said I’ve driven neither an Audi or a BMW, so I can’t comment on that.

 

[Gil]

Luxury cars in general are worthless... Is it worth owning a Luxury car? No.

But the Lexus IS, Infiniti G35, and BMW 3-series aren't Luxury cars, they are in the Near Luxury class.

And seeing as $30,000 will buy a top end Ford Taurus, Toyota Camry, Mazda6, Mustang, Accord as well as a G35, or IS. I think it's a valid question.

And when a Dodge Challenger costs the same as an IS or a G35, and a very Top Level Mustang is in the $40-50G level, It becomes a VERY valid question.

The place that I bought my Mazda6's has a 4cyl iGrand Touring model on the lot right now for $32,000. The 6cyl versions are only a couple of hundred dollars more dear.

The Infiniti dealer has NEW G35 sedans on the lot starting as low as $38,000 and used G35's including an '07 Coupe with less than 15,000 miles for $32,900.

A new Lexus IS250 with a manual trans goes out the door at about $32,000.

Acura TSX and TL are about $33,000 and $35,000 respectively.

See, if you go premium "normal" car, or nicely equipped "near luxury" car
You are in the $30-40,000 dollar neighbor hood. You can spend more, but it really isn't necessary to get a very nice Lexus, Infiniti or Acura.

If you spend that on a "lesser" car like a Camry, Accord, Mazda6, Etc. You will have the very nicest version of that car made.

You have to go over $40K if you want to go Bimmer or Benz. Many have stated that it is indeed worth the price of admission.

You will note that I have kept my personal opinion out of this.

But at this point I would have to say, if it is a "money is not an object" situation, I would likely buy a BMW or C-Class with no hesitation. Though if money was truly no object I would likely buy a Porsche.
By the same token, I would not feel at a disadvantage if I bought a Infiniti, Acura, or Lexus either.

 

[1X83Z]

I was mainly pointing it at you for the 6 more horses comment. Power isn’t everything. In fact, give me driving dynamics any day.

You missed the point I was making - it was very clear - my point was that my car has more power but is still incredibly slow.

 

[Sage]

top end Ford Taurus

It never occurred to me that those words could be in the same sentence.

 

[YSSMAN]

Awwww, be nice...

The new Ford Taurus is actually a very nice car!

 

[Blake]

You missed the point I was making - it was very clear - my point was that my car has more power but is still incredibly slow.

Slow is relative. Slow compared to what? A Veyron? A Yaris?

 

[V1P3R]

But the...

I don't care... see Luxury cars are like Vista, Vista needs a mega computer just to run the damn OS and in the same way Luxury cars have a

load of crap that can break not to mention adds weight and yada yada. Then... there's the price. I'm sorry, I'd rather pay for performance so I can make those luxury car idiots that don't know how to drive in the first place feel like the

they are.

 

[Blackbird.]

Slow is relative. Slow compared to what? A Veyron? A Yaris?

Can't be slower than my neon that has approximately 50 less horsepower then a Yamaha R1!

 

[neanderthal]

Substance goes deeper than what is immediately at your senses.

I happen to like german cars because they may get from point A to point B much like other cars, but they impart a certain sense of, occasion, feeling, feedback, specialness, whatever, that you DONT get with other cars.

My vintage BMW 2002 may feel antiquated and old, but it feels "right" in comparison to the rest of the cars in my family. Im currently driving a Lincoln Navigator; its a coupla years old i guess. My lil old BMW is more composed over bumps (although it may rattle and squeek more) and it communicates SO much better than the gator in every possible way; from steering feedback, to braking, clutch engagement (no clutch in the gator) acceleration etc. It may not perform those actions better, but it communicates what its doing better, and i guess that is what i prefer.

 

[1X83Z]

Slow is relative. Slow compared to what? A Veyron? A Yaris?

Huh??? I'm not debating whether it's slow. I think it's slow. You're still missing my point... my cue to end the discussion.

 

[McLaren]

I don't care... see Luxury cars are like Vista, Vista needs a mega computer just to run the damn OS and in the same way Luxury cars have a

load of crap that can break not to mention adds weight and yada yada. Then... there's the price. I'm sorry, I'd rather pay for performance so I can make those luxury car idiots that don't know how to drive in the first place feel like the

they are.

As a luxury car owner, what you said is absolutely nothing like owning a luxury car. So the luxury adds weight. Big deal. Its purpose wasn't to be fast, but to be comfortable & nice.

 

[niky]

When you pay money for a luxury car, you're paying for one thing... the attention to detail...

I like the steak analogy. Say you're out buying steak. What makes an expensive steak dinner at a posh restaurant better than your standard, cookie-cutter steak from Outback or TGIF? Granted, you can get a good steak from a franchise house, but spending the extra money to go to a fancy place, with better ambiance and a cook who knows a little bit more about cooking than your average grill gorilla gives you better odds at having the perfect dinner.

Its this sense of occassion you wouldn't get from, say an Accord or Camry that you get from driving a 3-series or a C-Class. Admittedly, the gap is closing... the new Accord is damn good (though the Camry still feels closer to its plebian roots, the Accord's interior and controls are starting to look nice and expensive)... but having driven the new 3-series, there's still a world of difference there.

Forget the awful choppiness of the run-flats... or the lightness of the steering at parking speeds (it still feels pretty good come the corners)... driving the 3 gives you more of a sense of occassion than any sport compact or Japanese executive can. It feels like a dozen engineers meticulously went over every inch of the car with a fine tooth comb, twiddling with this, fiddling with that... tweaking it so that everything is spot-on perfect. Even the crappiest, most plastic interior BMW can throw at you (in, say, a poverty-spec 1-series) feels well-made, with obsessive attention to detail.

Granted, not all luxury cars are like this... the Merc C-Class has so-so minor buttons for such an expensive car... but in general... high-end autos just plain feel better... (Audi's interiors are damn fantastic!).

Go higher up... ride in an X5, X6 or 7-series, and the sumptousness goes up a notch, and the feeling of quality, in things from the ride and control feel to handling responses, are also much better than you get in your high-end non-premium car.

It's this feel of quality that separates, say, a TVR... or even a Corvette... from a Porsche 911... or a Porsche Cayenne from a Jeep Cherokee SRT8... that obsessive attention to detail that guarantees that the manufacturer isn't going to use some crummy dime-store door handle where it can use real metal.

I used to believe that these cars weren't really worth the price differential... and I still love the feel of my Protege after driving a lot of new metal... but I can understand the mindset of the buyers better after driving so many of them. Yes, there is a difference. And yes, the steak dinner with good wine and candlelight is worth it.

But if you don't have that much money... hell... retail outlet steaks can taste just as good... despite the lower-end trimmings. Just don't expect gratitude sex afterwards...

 

[Duke]

My Audi is unbelievably, sadly, scarily slow... and yet I have six more horsepower than you.

I'm quaking in my Italian loafers.

I raced an E36 328i and won - although I'm unsure if you can consider such a pathetic contest a race. Just admit the thing is slow!!

I'll admit it's slow when I see your taillights in front of me. Until then, stop jumping to your own conclusions.

You missed the point I was making - it was very clear - my point was that my car has more power but is still incredibly slow.

Maybe that's because it's got an automatic transmission and an invisible George Foreman riding in it? Nah - couldn't be. Horsepower is EVERYTHING.

 

[Tornado]

I want to race Doug!

 

[1X83Z]

I'll admit it's slow when I see your taillights in front of me. Until then, stop jumping to your own conclusions.

I'm not the one who asked to race! Nor am I the one who brought my car into this! I'm comfortable with admitting my car is flawed. It should be; it came out a long time ago when the market was different. The base model of my car now has more power than mine, the top line model back in 2001, has. I'm perfectly comfortable with the notion that it's just an average car...

There's nothing wrong with your car - actually I rather like it. But come on, man up! It's pretty slow - at least relative to today's cars. Or perhaps you're so used to driving the super slow TSX so you have no concept of what fast is

I want to race Doug!

Race me on foot - you'll win.

 

[///M-Spec]

I don't care... see Luxury cars are like Vista, Vista needs a mega computer just to run the damn OS and in the same way Luxury cars have a

load of crap that can break not to mention adds weight and yada yada. Then... there's the price. I'm sorry, I'd rather pay for performance so I can make those luxury car idiots that don't know how to drive in the first place feel like the

they are.

What an incredibly juvenile thing to say.

There is no difference between someone who prefers a 'luxury' car and someone who prefers a 'performance' car. None. Nobody needs either. You don't have to have 500 horsepower or 1.02g of grip any more than someone else needs 18 way adjustable, heated and ventilated seats.

In fact, 'performance' is just another kind of luxury. It is something you don't have to have, but you like it anyway because it makes you feel good.

Characterizing people who get pleasure out of an automobile (or other nice things in life) because it is quiet, comfortable or has a lot of features as idiots is an ignorant and childish thing to do. I don't know what your problem is, but take your vitriol elsewhere; we don't need it around here.


M

 

[Tornado]

Race me on foot - you'll win.

Nah. I'm out of shape.

 

[niky]

After my epic post up there... I have to amend some things...

I actually have driven some Japanese cars that give you the same sense of occassion as a German compact... the Accord, the CX9 and the new Mazda6. Everything else still feels cheap.

 

[JCE]

Awwww, be nice...

The new Ford Taurus is actually a very nice car!

Thanks for getting the defense in before I could.

I'll run the winner


M

I want to race Doug!

I'll take you both on in my old aging slow Camaro...and probably surprise you when I walk right past you.

Horsepower is EVERYTHING.

Actually in a street race torque is everything...but I'll quit being pedantic.

 

[Tornado]

I'll take you both on in my old aging slow Camaro...and probably surprise you when I walk right past you.

That depends entirely on what I bring.

 

[///M-Spec]

I'll take you both on in my old aging slow Camaro...and probably surprise you when I walk right past you.

Specs on your F-bod? Mods?


M

 

[JCE]

That depends entirely on what I bring.

I'm having fun with the playful banter.

Specs on your F-bod? Mods?


M

Not much, intake and exhaust. And that lovely "learning" ECU of mine that loves to give it some juice when he's cold and takes it away when he's hot. So if we roll, we need to roll during the winter and when I first start the car up after 4 hours of cool down time.

I hope people are seeing the light-hearted nature of my posting here.

*edit*
Do I get a handicap for having a million billion miles on my engine?

 

[Blackbird.]

How bout getting spanked by an SRT4 JCE?

 

[JCE]

How bout getting spanked by an SRT4 JCE?

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt.