Is the badge worth the price of admission?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Gil
  • 136 comments
  • 4,838 views
Blackbird.
Now your car on the other hand. I would die to autocross it! The fastest car I had a ridealong in was in an older M coupe setup for Auto X, it was crazy! :drool:
Click to expand...

No you wouldn't :) The car has a steep learning curve and doesn't suffer fools gladly. If your talent level is somewhere between "mere mortal" and "I sit in my car in the garage making whoosh whoosh noises while I pretend to double-clutch", the car will either spin or go into a death plow just as soon as you look at it. Just ask me how I know. Put someone who knows what they're doing behind the wheel and it'll make FTDs, though.

Rotary Junkie
And swap the heads, cam, and intake for aftermarket bits along with decking the block so I can eat M's car.
Click to expand...

I see your crate motor and raise you a snail :D




Pupik
...and some people like Audis because they prefer to put half the mileage on a loaner car, saving them money.
Click to expand...

Rofflecopter :D A+ would read again.


M
 
Duke
Fixed that typo for you.
Click to expand...

+1 Hate that generation of Grand Prix my old tired Camaro would probably lap it on a track. :lol: The only good modern ones were the 97-03 (?). And only in GTP form. Those are good GM FWD slushboxes.
 
///M-Spec
No you wouldn't :) The car has a steep learning curve and doesn't suffer fools gladly. If your talent level is somewhere between "mere mortal" and "I sit in my car in the garage making whoosh whoosh noises while I pretend to double-clutch", the car will either spin or go into a death plow just as soon as you look at it. Just ask me how I know. Put someone who knows what they're doing behind the wheel and it'll make FTDs, though.



M
Click to expand...

Hmm, interesting I saw a few M roadsters at the same autocross and they didn't seem too wild hehe.
 
JCE
Pic?
Click to expand...
attachment.php
 
I didn't know the Z3 had an M in roadster mode. That's awsome, I'd love to have one. I secretly love Z3's, don't tell anyone. :D
 
I saw an M Roadster like M-Spec's means exactly what you think it means. I saw Z4 M Roadsters autocrossing and they didn't look too wild...
 
And what ///M-Spec was talking about was the Z3-based M Coupe, even though he himself owns a Z4-based M Roadster.
 
Sorry about the confusion there, but I was actually talking about my Z4 M Roadster rather than any of the Z3 based cars.



Blackbird, the Z4 M is tricky to drive at the limit. It is very forgiving up to around 8.5/10ths. Once the tires start sliding around, you had better know what you are doing because it is very picky about how it's driven. It exposes flaws in your driving. It won't have it 'your way'. At 10/10ths, the Z4 M will sort the wheat from the chaff.

If you've seen Z/M pilots driving smoothly around an auto-x course, there are two possibilities.

a) the car looks smooth because it is not being driven very hard (mid-pack times)

b) the car looks smooth because the driver knows what he is doing and is getting the most out of the car (FTD times or close)

Somewhere between a) and b) is the average driver. Like me. That's when you get the death plow or the spin. The car doesn't like to rotate under braking, which throws 3-series guys like me. It has a sharp transition from neutral to oversteer. It is faster than anything else I've ever owned or even driven.

Since Z/Ms tend to attract the most hardcore Bimmerphiles, my guess is that the people you've observed are experienced and talented to some degree. Because this car tends to eat up and spit out average joes.

Respect. This car demands it.


M
 
Yeah the M coupe I was referring to that I had ridden in was a Z3 based M Coupe. It looked like and I was informed by my friend and his father that he knew what he was doing and it's certainly the fastest i've gone in a car before. It was great, I want to Auto X badly but I'm afraid that i'll embarass myself and probably need to go to a car control clinic.

autoxmcoupe.jpg
 
Last edited:
Blackbird.
Yeah the M coupe I was referring to that I had ridden in was a Z3 based M Coupe. It looked like and I was informed by my friend and his father that he knew what he was doing and it's certainly the fastest i've gone in a car before. It was great, I want to Auto X badly but I'm afraid that i'll embarass myself and probably need to go to a car control clinic.

autoxmcoupe.jpg
Click to expand...

Don't worry about it. When you start a driving class for that type of driving, every teacher will tell you to start out slow. Your first few laps will most def. be under 60Mph so you can become familiar with it. I spent about 10 laps at MSR at 60Mph top before they started letting me open it up.
 
Glad we're all clear on that. Now...lets discuss the topic with this issue.

2008 BMW Z4 base model: http://autos.yahoo.com/bmw_z4_roadster_3.0i-specs/
Price: $36,700 USD
Key Technical Specs:
Standard Engine: 3.0L I6
Standard Transmission: 6 Speed Manual
Cylinders: 6
Horsepower: @ RPM215@6250
Torque: @ RPM185@2750 (foot-lbs)
18/28 MPG
Cruising Range: 319 miles
Cargo Volume (MFR): 9.2 cu. ft.
Headroom (Front): 37.3
Legroom (Front): 42.0
Shoulder Room (Front): 52.5
Curb Weight MT: 3020lbs
0-60mph (not that it matters): 6.2

2008 Infiniti G37 coupe (top spec b4/opt.): http://autos.yahoo.com/infiniti_g37_coupe_sport_6mt-specs/
Price: $36,200
Key Technical Specs:
Standard Engine: 3.7L V6
Standard Transmission: 6 Speed Manual
Cylinders: 6
Horsepower: @ RPM330@7000
Torque: @ RPM270@5200 (foot-lbs)
17/26 MPG
Cruising Range: 400 miles
Cargo Volume (MFR): 7.4 cu. ft.
Headroom (Front): 39.4
Legroom (Front): 43.8
Shoulder Room (Front): 53.7
Curb Weight MT: 3668lbs
0-60mph 5.5 (automatic--couldn't find the 6spd manual time)

Anyway, you be the judge. I think the Infiniti should win here. Yes it is ~600lbs heavier but it still handles quite well.

Thoughts?
 
^ Yeah, what he said. One is a two seat roadster. The other is a 2+2 coupe.

But there's also a couple of things you should know.

#1: No one has been paying sticker on a Z4 for about two years now. BMW has been quietly paying dealers 'marketing allowances' (read: dealer holdback) from anywhere between $1,500 all the way to $5,000, depending on the model, since the mid-cycle refresh. I got (no joke) my well optioned Z4 M for about $6,800 off the list price. A scorching deal.

It's the styling. Not many people "get it".

#2: The last Z4 rolled off the assembly line in Spartanburg last Wednesday. So you are comparing a new model introduced last year to one that is no longer in production and is expect to clear out of dealer channels by (at the very latest) next spring.

If you want to compare BMWs to Infinitis, you should just go pick up a Road & Track or Car and Driver; they've already done it ad nauseum. Or you can just go drive them both and judge for yourself.

Also, I wonder if you've read my 'steak post' from earlier in the thread?


M
 
I was more or less comparing sports cars with a similar price range. Take the G37 out and insert the 350Z and the Z4 looks even worse as a purchase to me. :D
 
Well if I had a choice if you're referring to the 350Z that's a coupe unless you're referring to the roadster i'd gladly take a Z4 M Coupe over a 350Z.
 
The M coupe would be much more expensive for not that much more performance. They both do 0-60 in around 5.0s flat. (which again I point out is meaningless) And yes the Z4 M handles good--but so does the 350Z. A Nismo-spec Z versus a Z4 M would be a more close comparison--which would have the 350Z ahead me thinks.

350Z Nismo
MSRP: $38,680
3.5L V6, 24 valve, 306 hp @ 6800 rpm
6 speed manual transmission
18 mpg city / 25 mpg hwy more info
Green Rating: 60
Curb Weight MT: 3353


Z4 M
MSRP $50,400
3.2L I6, 24 valve, 330 hp @ 7900 rpm
6 speed manual transmission
15 mpg city / 22 mpg hwy more info
Green Rating: 54
Curb Weight MT: 3230

Is the Z4 M worth that much extra premium? Keep in mind I love ALL BMW M cars to DEATH--but I cannot justify that $10,000+ price premium.
 
Because you're buying more than performance. I can't believe people (not you; more specifically young kids who believe price is all about performance) can not comprehend that when you pay such & such over another car, you're not just buying a car with equal or slightly better performance, but a car that most likely has a better interior, terrific build quality, and much more.

$10,000 is buying you more than just a car with equal or less horsepower & performance.
 
Reventón;3145651
Because you're buying more than performance. I can't believe people (not you; more specifically young kids who believe price is all about performance) can not comprehend that when you pay such & such over another car, you're not just buying a car with equal or slightly better performance, but a car that most likely has a better interior, terrific build quality, and much more.

$10,000 is buying you more than just a car with equal or less horsepower & performance.
Click to expand...

It's buying convenience and saving you from having interior bits fall off during hard acceleration. How else can you judge how hard you launch?!?
 
The interior of that BMW while better than the 350Z--isn't as good as you think it is. Looks good, but doesn't feel as it should from a German car.

But, I am a Nissan whore so pretty much I'd take either the G or 350Z over anything BMW at this point. But, still for comparison that Nismo Z does do quite a good job competing with the Z4M doesn't it? Numbers for numbers it does do just that.
 
See, me, I'm all for performance, and a dash that at the very least doesn't look cheap.

Gimme A/C, stick, a comfortable and supportive seat, and a good sound system, I won't complain. Unless it's any Toyota that doesn't have "Celica" or "Supra" attached to it.
 
Last edited:
My prefered list goes:

Looks, noise, comfy seat, performance (power+handling), stick, A/C, and then a radio. I've lived with and without a radio for years, doesn't bother me. I almost prefer a good exhaust note over it anyhow.
 
JCE
My prefered list goes:

Looks, noise, comfy seat, performance (power+handling), stick, A/C, and then a radio. I've lived with and without a radio for years, doesn't bother me. I almost prefer a good exhaust note over it anyhow.
Click to expand...

I just haven't developed that far into taste, as this would be my first car. I'm lost without a radio, I'll run myself into a ditch trying to remember the next verse of the song in my head.
 
JCE
But, I am a Nissan whore so pretty much I'd take either the G or 350Z over anything BMW at this point. But, still for comparison that Nismo Z does do quite a good job competing with the Z4M doesn't it? Numbers for numbers it does do just that.
Click to expand...
That's fine, but you're still getting more in other areas of the BMW than that of the Nismo Z.

But now, I believe this deserves to be reposted.
///M-Spec
It's a $50,000 luxury car. You don't rationalize a luxury item. It is not a logic problem. You buy it if you like it and can afford it.

Do you rationalize eating steak? One pound of tenderloin (filet mignon) is ~$12.00/lb. One pound of 'cheap' steak like a Bottom Round is ~$4.00/lb. So why would anyone buy the good stuff when they can eat three times as much cheap stuff for the same money?

The answer: because it tastes good. People like it and can afford it.


M
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:

Latest Posts

Back