Is the badge worth the price of admission?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Gil
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Of course I wouldn't even doubt it for a second that your 'maro would spank the SRT4 in corners. FWD FTFL. :(

As far as your handicap how many miles? My friend's 535i has about 230,000 miles and his engine is doing great... :p
 
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Of course I wouldn't even doubt it for a second that your 'maro would spank the SRT4 in corners. FWD FTFL. :(

Actually the SRT-4 is pretty decent at autocrossing like an Fbody. My low-end torque (290 crank tq approx.) might be what pulls me ahead on a short course with more corners than straights. Your boost will eat me alive 50mph+ no doubt.
 
Well the numbers from the dealer is 230 hp at the crank i'm sure... I have no idea about torque. It puts out almost 15 lbs of boost. But I don't know how FWD would be fun to Auto X I've seen mini coopers autocross and it was a hail of screeching tires. :lol:
 
No LT1/LS1 swap, no chance in hell :sly:


M

Now your car on the other hand. I would die to autocross it! The fastest car I had a ridealong in was in an older M coupe setup for Auto X, it was crazy! :drool:
 
Well the numbers from the dealer is 230 hp at the crank i'm sure... I have no idea about torque. It puts out almost 15 lbs of boost. But I don't know how FWD would be fun to Auto X I've seen mini coopers autocross and it was a hail of screeching tires. :lol:

Your SRT4 is underrated by Chrysler. Its more like ~250bhp crank and ~270tq crank for 2004-2005 models.

No LT1/LS1 swap, no chance in hell :sly:


M

When I'm in my powerband I can surprise people. But keep in mind my powerband is VERY short and VERY limited. :D And I have no hopes of beating any M car.

I'm not doing an LT/LS swap, I'm putting the TPI topside and throwing a turbo or two on it. :D Then it'll be a beast while still maintaining street drivability.
 
All you need is a stage two kit, some semi slicks and you'll be eating almost anything on the road short of a Terminator or C6 ZO6.

*edit*
Maybe we should split this into its own topic...we're hideously offtopic. :eek:
 
Ah well, I may have to go with a Ford 302 in the Jag just so I can eat JCE's Camaro.

And swap the heads, cam, and intake for aftermarket bits along with decking the block so I can eat M's car. And depending on what Toronado brings, I might add boost to the equation.
 
RE: Autocrossing... it's all in the wrists... :lol: ...small, short wheelbase FWDs can be very competitive in the autocross... in fact, can win it, given a mixed field. Light weight, tossability, and power-understeer (to trim out the lift-off and handbrake oversteer you use to get through the tight sections) will beat big power any day. Of course, a very short wheelbase RWD car would be technically superior, but since they don't build Toyota Starlets anymore (and the old ones don't have the chassis rigidity of modern cars), a FWD hatch is a very good choice.

RE: SRT4... Chrysler admitted that they purposely under-quoted the car, just to give people extra smiles for their money when they got it on the dyno. :D

JCE
:p I'm having fun with the playful banter.



Not much, intake and exhaust. And that lovely "learning" ECU of mine that loves to give it some juice when he's cold and takes it away when he's hot. :grumpy: So if we roll, we need to roll during the winter and when I first start the car up after 4 hours of cool down time. :D

I hope people are seeing the light-hearted nature of my posting here. :sly:

*edit*
Do I get a handicap for having a million billion miles on my engine? :lol:

Just stick the intake air temperature sensor someplace cool... like, hang it outside the engine bay, flapping in the wind... that should cure it. :lol:
 
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Ah well, I may have to go with a Ford 302 in the Jag just so I can eat JCE's Camaro.

And swap the heads, cam, and intake for aftermarket bits along with decking the block so I can eat M's car. And depending on what Toronado brings, I might add boost to the equation.

I can get my 305 to play with your 302 if I had the money. :p

Just stick the intake air temperature sensor someplace cool... like, hang it outside the engine bay, flapping in the wind... that should cure it. :lol:

Now that's a genius idea!

Reventón;3142184
Hey, speak for yourself! ;)

Drop a turbo or two on that TL and lets get busy!
 
Reventón;3142405
Well, tbh, that could be sooner or later. Lately, I've been seriously considering keeping the TL after the lease. :dopey:

If not consider offering it to me! :p No seriously though I'd kill for that TL, it's the Type-S if I remember?

Yeah I know FWD isn't horrible but it definitely doesn't make for fast cornering...
 
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Yeah I know FWD isn't horrible but it definitely doesn't make for fast cornering...

These two cars want to have a word with you outside. :D

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That's not fair those are short wheelbase. :( I was referring to cars like the SRT4 and the TL.
 
Both of which were actually pretty good at cornering...

All that i've heard is non-short wheelbase fwd cars is that they're terrible at anything else then a straight line. I've never taken a FWD cornering or anything like that. So I wouldn't no any better what they're capable of.
 
Everyone always forgets the unsung hero...

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I remember a time when GM had the guts to compare it to the 3-series and the G35. What a time, what a time indeed!
 
Everyone always forgets the unsung hero...

alt03.jpg


I remember a time when GM had the guts to compare it to the 3-series and the G35. What a time, what a time indeed!

I remember we asked for a large sedan for my trip to DC and they gave us one of those... I had 0 leg room in the back when i was 12 years old. Interior wasn't amazing either and wasn't terribly comfortable... Infact I have more leg room in my sisters Focus now then I did when I was 12 in that car.
 
I don’t know if “guts” is the operative word. ;)

I couldn't think of a good one. Perhaps "audacity" would be better?

Yes... That works, much much better!
 
:lol:

Well, it could have worked... that's how Nissan tries to place Infiniti... by going straight after the 3-series. Seems to work pretty well if you can at least hit close to the mark.

RE: legroom? The 3-series of the time didn't have it, either... well-benchmarked... :lol:

All that i've heard is non-short wheelbase fwd cars is that they're terrible at anything else then a straight line. I've never taken a FWD cornering or anything like that. So I wouldn't no any better what they're capable of.

No four-door or platform based on a four-door actually corners that well without some suspension or tire tweaks. Most cranks would have you believe that RWD always equals oversteer and FWD always equals understeer. But that equation works only under power. When you corner, you don't keep your foot flat to the floor, you brake for the corner, go around it, and accelerate on the way out.

Going screaming into a racetrack corner, I can tell you this... everything understeers. Don't matter where the engine is, which wheels get the power and how much grip it has, it'll understeer. You lift off and brake to create rotation then. If you've got a car set-up to oversteer, it'll oversteer... the old Evos were set up to oversteer easily if you threw them at a corner, but I don't know how the new one is set-up. The M3 will do it if the corner angles are right and the corner is wide enough (otherwise, the great grip of the thing will prevent it). Some hot hatches can do this... and do it well.

If you've got a car set-up to understeer, it'll just understeer less (this includes 99% of road-cars made nowadays, from the 3-series to the Mazda3). You'll need to give it a lot of steering or a good flick to get some neutral-steer or over-steer going. My car handles like a dream on a winding road, but it needs a lot of suspension tweaking to keep from understeering at 10/10ths.

If you've got a well set-up car, like, say an MX-5, a Clio or an old Integra, it'll adopt a neutral stance and shoot you out of the corner so fast you won't mind how little power it actually has.

It's all in the suspension geomtery and alignment. Anything can be fun if you let it be. I remember tales of how badly a neighbor (Korean student, I believe) drove on his way back from a dinner up in the hills... something about having to foot the bill... he had his FWD Galant sideways half-the-time on the way down, but since it was FWD, he just had to keep his foot in and it would sort itself out... :lol:
 
Characterizing people who get pleasure out of an automobile (or other nice things in life) because it is quiet, comfortable or has a lot of features as idiots is an ignorant and childish thing to do. I don't know what your problem is, but take your vitriol elsewhere; we don't need it around here.

///M gets the square!

The "badge" is all in what you value: Honestly, you're going to get a different buying, servicing, and reputation experience for owning any luxury and/or performance make. If you don't value those things (and many people do not), then you can save your money. Some people value a nice boat or a yacht or a nice home instead...it's nonsense, even in a car forum, to state that a premium must be spent on a car before all else, and even more idiotic to state that only a select few really enjoy it without spending some actual face-time with the owners of these cars.

Some people value the handling and feel of a BMW, some people like the plushness and quality of a Lexus, and some people like the Infiniti because there's a bit of a middle ground between the two. Some people like Mercedes-Benzes because of the image, and some people like Audis because they prefer to put half the mileage on a loaner car, saving them money. And in many respects, all or most of these attributes are interchangable from brand to brand; reliability nor polish nor owner treatment is not a given in any brand.

Cars like these are bought with emotions and feelings in mind; purchase price and really secondary in most cases. Many people buy one of the first choices they experience; it's nearly always nicer when you're driving a car that's newer than your own, and the emotional and craving and selfish aspect kicks in and tells you to sign before the head has a chance to speak up.

If we all bought cars based on logic, needs, and patriotism; 90% of Americans would own Honda Fits but re-badge them as Chevrolets, and leave the sticker in the window, but only after editing them with a Sharpie marker.

(...so says the Lexus owner, who lives in an area where all the roads are flat and maps look like screen doors)
 
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I never realized the GXP had a fender vent thingie… ewww…
 
I've had the dubious fortune of owning not one but two Pontiac 6000 sedans.
(The ubiquitous LWB FWD)
Suprisingly the V-6 was the dog of the two.
It made British cars of old look like reliability leaders, It handled only slightly better than the Zondas in GT3 (It had better brakes).

The 4-cyl base model was quicker, got 30 miles per gallon and was great for point-A to point-B. It did not touch my emotions. It was not "exciting", and even my wife, who loves a good utilitarian POS, preferred to drive the mini-van.

It was actually a pretty good car, right up till the crankshaft let go, 2 days after my damn birthday, stranding me in "Where'd all the People go", KS.
It is why I now think GM cars, Pontiacs in particular, are great reasons to buy Mazdas, Hondas, and Toyotas.

I think that PUPIK is right on the money. If my wallet can support what my heart wants, that's what is going to end up in my garage.

And if my heart despises a certain car, it won't end up in my garage, unless it's a gift. And even then it won't be staying long.
 
I never realized the GXP had a fender vent thingie… ewww…

I think all of the GXP models have it now. HELL, they even put the damn thing on the Aveo5. Why, exactly, I do not understand. GM says they're functional on most of their cars, whether I believe them or not is still in question... Especially on the Escalade.
 
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