Is VTEC accurately recreated in this game??

[8400RPM]

For my US Integra R, VTEC engagement depends on throttle position. If you have the throttle wide open, it kicks in at 5600-5700, partial throttle it kicks in at 5900. And if you shift close to redline, you will always be on the VTEC cam.

 

[Solid Lifters]

We've done this before, people.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=39182&highlight=VTEC

 

[Ronnn]

i dont' think you can hear Vtec kicks in in GT4
i mean, you can feel the car is going faster, has more power, and the engine sound....well louder...but that's not like Vtec kicks in.

Vtec kicks in...the engine tone will change as well, not only louder

 

[tha_con]

hmm.. that reminds me, wasnt there a "Vtechless" Vtec on that vtec magic episode of best motoring? u know, with the high cams all the time? i think it was a the Jun prelude or something. It seemed to have plenty of power in the lower revs..

Definately was NOT the Jun Prelude, lol, that is my baby though, love that car.

It was a highly tuned ITR, and if I remember correctly, the bottom end wasn't very impressive, but it was great with top end power. I already posted about this earlier in the thread, lol...I get ignored

 

[Flip rSx driveR]

i dont' think you can hear Vtec kicks in in GT4
i mean, you can feel the car is going faster, has more power, and the engine sound....well louder...but that's not like Vtec kicks in.

Vtec kicks in...the engine tone will change as well, not only louder

The tone on the JDM Type R seems dead on with the " VTEC tone " of my RSX. I don't know why people always say VTEC kicks in, as if it will punch you in your seat like turbo lag or something. When I hit the gas on my car, all the car does is get louder. I think I'm going to have to jump on the highway later and just punch the gas in 2nd gear from 3000RPM. That is, if this snow ever clears up.

 

[draven6801]

The tone on the JDM Type R seems dead on with the " VTEC tone " of my RSX. I don't know why people always say VTEC kicks in, as if it will punch you in your seat like turbo lag or something. When I hit the gas on my car, all the car does is get louder. I think I'm going to have to jump on the highway later and just punch the gas in 2nd gear from 3000RPM. That is, if this snow ever clears up.

Thats cause the v-tec in the rsx and rsx type-s is different then the older v-tec models.

 

[Trueno_SS]

Well, think about it. If you have a valve opened really far, even at low RPM... what kind of gas mileage do you think you'd be getting.

How far the valves open doesn't affect how much fuel you use, it affects how efficient your engine is. Having a high-lift cam (and also depending on the cam timing) will alter your torque curve (ie how much torque you have at so much rpm). So basically having an engine with a camshaft timed for lower revs and that doesn't open as far as a high-lift cam will rev a lot smoother down low but won't produce as much torque up high. However an engine fitted with a high-lift cam and the right timing won't rev very smooth at low revs but will have a lot more torque at high revs. That's where the concept of VTEC comes in; basically a VTEC engine switches camshafts as it approaches higher rpm's. This way you've got a camshaft timed for lower revs, allowing the engine to run smoothly at low revs, and also a high-lift camshaft timed for higher revs, to produce more power in the higher rev range and also maintain a high engine speed.

 

[Gabkicks]

Definately was NOT the Jun Prelude, lol, that is my baby though, love that car.

It was a highly tuned ITR, and if I remember correctly, the bottom end wasn't very impressive, but it was great with top end power. I already posted about this earlier in the thread, lol...I get ignored

Yeah, i remember now. the ITR that cross eyed dude tuned.


Its kinda funny how we are discussing a topic that has already been discussed in depth a few moths ago Search button Peoples!!! 👍

 

[Flip rSx driveR]

How far the valves open doesn't affect how much fuel you use, it affects how efficient your engine is. Having a high-lift cam (and also depending on the cam timing) will alter your torque curve (ie how much torque you have at so much rpm). So basically having an engine with a camshaft timed for lower revs and that doesn't open as far as a high-lift cam will rev a lot smoother down low but won't produce as much torque up high. However an engine fitted with a high-lift cam and the right timing won't rev very smooth at low revs but will have a lot more torque at high revs. That's where the concept of VTEC comes in; basically a VTEC engine switches camshafts as it approaches higher rpm's. This way you've got a camshaft timed for lower revs, allowing the engine to run smoothly at low revs, and also a high-lift camshaft timed for higher revs, to produce more power in the higher rev range and also maintain a high engine speed.

Thanks. I've learned something new.

 

[Trueno_SS]

Thanks. I've learned something new.

Haha. That's ok... I'm happy to help 👍

 

[Safe Speed]

It being a Honda (made in Japan) im pretty sure that PD got the sound in lol, but I dont know for sure. I have heard the sound file of the Civic and I heard the v-tec kick in.

 

[Duke]

In all honestly, I own a car with V-tec and I have no idea what all the fuss is about. It's just not that great a thing. Mostly it just increases average fuel economy by keeping the cam lift and duration small at low and mid-range revs, rather than supplying some huge power boost over what a normal engine does (or could do). I see it as an economy feature, not a real performance feature.

 

[dreadfist]

In all honestly, I own a car with V-tec and I have no idea what all the fuss is about. It's just not that great a thing. Mostly it just increases average fuel economy by keeping the cam lift and duration small at low and mid-range revs, rather than supplying some huge power boost over what a normal engine does (or could do). I see it as an economy feature, not a real performance feature.

Of course your base model accord (I'm taking a guess there) doesnt have any performance gain from vtec. If you've ever driven a honda with a tuned B series motor, you'll definitly hear and feel the change over.

Ride in a ITR with boltons and cams and you'll feel more than a small difference.

 

[Griffith500]

Trueno_SS
I agree with everything you said but this...

How far the valves open doesn't affect how much fuel you use.

Opening the valves more is solely done to get as much fuel/air mixture into the cylinders over a shorter time (than at lower revs.) Exactly how it affects mileage depends on many things (base engine, cams used - its not a simple relationship) and can only be determined by measuring it.


BMW's engines have had clever electronics and variable valve timing for the last 5 or 6 years... (E39 M5) I read somewhere (some car mag) that the new M3 under development will use a V8 engine with electronic valve actuation (no cams, just solenoid type things), and thus infinitely variable valve timing, similar to that used in F1 cars!

 

[Flip rSx driveR]

Personally, I hate how the Civics sound in these games. The engine wail is TOO high pitched, and it's not a deep kind of scream that B-series engines normally give off.

 

[evolution]

Of course your base model accord (I'm taking a guess there) doesnt have any performance gain from vtec. If you've ever driven a honda with a tuned B series motor, you'll definitly hear and feel the change over.

Ride in a ITR with boltons and cams and you'll feel more than a small difference.

Yep. DOHC VTEC is where it's at.

I had a 98' ITR back in the day with bolt-on's and you could feel the power after the second VTEC crossover. A lot of people complain about the torque and this and that, but the ITR is the best handling FWD car on the circuit. I have an s2000 now and the F20C is nice but doesn't feel as great as the ITR"s B18C5.

 

[Trueno_SS]

Opening the valves more is solely done to get as much fuel/air mixture into the cylinders over a shorter time (than at lower revs.) Exactly how it affects mileage depends on many things (base engine, cams used - its not a simple relationship) and can only be determined by measuring it.

Yes I agree, but my point was that you're not going to start injecting more fuel into the cylinders because the valves are opening further. And yeah sorry I didn't explain it very well the first time, my mistake.

BMW's engines have had clever electronics and variable valve timing for the last 5 or 6 years... (E39 M5) I read somewhere (some car mag) that the new M3 under development will use a V8 engine with electronic valve actuation (no cams, just solenoid type things), and thus infinitely variable valve timing, similar to that used in F1 cars!

Yeah they first introduced the 'clever electronics and variable valve timing' thing in the early 90's, it's called VANOS. I'm not 100% on how it works but it does something amazing with a whole lot of sprockets (instead of just chains and gears like normal OHC engines) to alter the timing of the intake camshaft throughout diferent engine speeds. In other words, at low revs the intake valves are opened just a little bit later so that the engine idles and revs smoother. In the mid rev-range, the intake valves open earlier so they can re-circulate some of the unburnt exhaust gases through the combustion chambers in order to improve fuel efficiency. Later on in the high rev-range the valves are opened later and wider to take in as much fuel and oxygen as quick as possible to increase power.
Some of the newer high-performance BMW's (like the current M3) use bi-VANOS. This is pretty much the same thing as VANOS only it acts on the outlet camshaft in addition to the intake camshaft.
Also the standard VANOS system only alters the cam timing at 2 points in the entire rev-range whereas bi-VANOS is continuously altering the cam timing. The bi-VANOS system may be what you were talking about with the new V8 M3 under way, but I could be wrong.

 

[Red Six]

Well, activating the VTEC at too low of an RPM can cause lower the low-end responsiveness of the engine because the VTEC cam lobe has too high of a profile. The " tuners " would probably lower the VTEC crossover a little bit, but never have it running all the time.

im glad someone said it, vtec 100% of the time = crappy launches 👍

 

[Red Six]

Also the standard VANOS system only alters the cam timing at 2 points in the entire rev-range whereas bi-VANOS is continuously altering the cam timing. The bi-VANOS system may be what you were talking about with the new V8 M3 under way, but I could be wrong.

he said no cams running the valve train, just actuators. so i think its a next gen system not bi-vanos like you said...

 

[JRizEJ6]

hmm.. that reminds me, wasnt there a "Vtechless" Vtec on that vtec magic episode of best motoring? u know, with the high cams all the time? i think it was a the Jun prelude or something. It seemed to have plenty of power in the lower revs..

hey i have that episode. thats bestmotoring vol4. those cams you speak of are the vtec killer cams.last i heard toda was the first to bring those into the market but im not sure if anyone else has come up with their own iteration since then.

 

[Ronnn]

The tone on the JDM Type R seems dead on with the " VTEC tone " of my RSX. I don't know why people always say VTEC kicks in, as if it will punch you in your seat like turbo lag or something. When I hit the gas on my car, all the car does is get louder. I think I'm going to have to jump on the highway later and just punch the gas in 2nd gear from 3000RPM. That is, if this snow ever clears up.

You are right, you will only hear very little difference in K series engine.
You are driving a DC5 with K20A, which has i-VTEC, the change over isn't as notice as VTEC in B series engine.

If you every ride on those B series or even Prelude H22A engine, it sures like small Turbo coming in at above 5000 rpm. Of cause, I dont mean a sudden jump in huge horsepower, but you should feel a sudden pull from it.

Also, that 'sudden change in cam profile' actually not good in power curve and torque curve. That's why Honda implemented to i-VTEC, and now......you will not feel that sudden change in power anymore (or as I said very little difference)

 

[bbq0801]

OK, this is slightly on-slightly off topic, but

1-Is the US version of the Lotus Elise in GT4?

2-That car has the Toyota 1.8L inline four with VVTi-L, apparenly in a car as light as the elise, the cam changeover is enough to put your head in the seat. Is the more significant push and sound changeover reproduced in the game?
Also, does the US elise sound any different from the celica/ others that use that engine?

 

[tait]

Indepth look at I-VTEC in Honda's k20a

http://asia.vtec.net/article/k20a/

 

[Ronnn]

OK, this is slightly on-slightly off topic, but

1-Is the US version of the Lotus Elise in GT4?

2-That car has the Toyota 1.8L inline four with VVTi-L, apparenly in a car as light as the elise, the cam changeover is enough to put your head in the seat. Is the more significant push and sound changeover reproduced in the game?
Also, does the US elise sound any different from the celica/ others that use that engine?

Lotus Elise 111R which uses Toyota 1.8L is in the game.
But you will not hear any changeover. VVTi-L and VVTi is very smooth. Actually you will only have noticeable different when you drive a DOHC VTEC. You will not hear any difference in VVTi, VVTi-L, Mivec....etc.
I am not sure about VANOS in BMW...sorry

 

[draven6801]

In all honestly, I own a car with V-tec and I have no idea what all the fuss is about. It's just not that great a thing. Mostly it just increases average fuel economy by keeping the cam lift and duration small at low and mid-range revs, rather than supplying some huge power boost over what a normal engine does (or could do). I see it as an economy feature, not a real performance feature.

How can you say that v-tec is not a real performace feature did you not read my post on page two of this topic. Not only that but my friend owns a daily driven 94 civic h/b with a fully built b20/v-tec that runs 11.6 1/4 miles on pump gas, so if its not a real performance feature how would that be possible.

 

[Duke]

How can you say that v-tec is not a real performace feature did you not read my post on page two of this topic. Not only that but my friend owns a daily driven 94 civic h/b with a fully built b20/v-tec that runs 11.6 1/4 miles on pump gas, so if its not a real performance feature how would that be possible.

Because it's not. It's nothing magic. With a properly profiled cam, the engine could make power like that all the time. Fuel economy would suffer, and the idle would get lumpy. Vtec - or i-Vtec - does nothing whatsoever to increase the peak power of the engine. What is does do is make the engine more economical and streetable to drive.

Of course your base model accord (I'm taking a guess there) doesnt have any performance gain from vtec. If you've ever driven a honda with a tuned B series motor, you'll definitly hear and feel the change over.

Ride in a ITR with boltons and cams and you'll feel more than a small difference.

It's an '04 TSX - 200 hp 2.4 DOHC i-Vtec. And I never said you couldn't feel the cams come in (though with the i-Vtec it is a much subtler feeling). Read my post above.

But again, vTec is no magic bullet that creates some special super horsepower. The engine doesn't so much come onto the power mode as it does come off of economy mode.

 

[moosejaw]

with all this said... I must confess I like the sound of a really, *really* powerful engine with a lumpy idle

Nothing says business more than an air-cooled 993 Carrera 3.8 RSCS idling and glugging away like an erratic heartbeat

It's a bit like the SR-71 Blackbird... when it's on the ground, idling and doing nothing, it leaks like a sieve and sounds awful... but that's only because it lives to be at 115,000 feet doing 2400mph

The Carrera 3.8 RS was designed to live between the start and finish line, redlining and screaming like a banshee heh Same thing with the idle of a Porsche 917, 956 and 962, when idling it sounds like the cams are all out of whack, almost like it's about to stall. But to me, it's music to my ears

 

[KaiZen]

ACTUALLY.. VTEC was designed with performance cornering in mind. Everyone knows that NA's are cornering king's because they dont have any turbo lag. If a conventional engine reved over 8000rpm it would have a high lift cam therefore performance in the low-mid range would suffer, anything under 5000rpm, it might as well be called "NA lag".

The idea was to have usable torque throughout the rev range and not just at the top (turbo) or the middle (conventional for all engines) or the bottom (usually V8's, that's why their redline is so low)..

Therefore a major performance tool. Built for predictable cornering and not outright power. Power does not equal performance. The term "performance" get's thrown around too much like that...

Another term that gets thrown around alot is "VTEC". The "lift" part of the "VTEC" system is the real performance part where a high lift cam takes over. Not all VTEC's have this. Some only have the variable valve timing adjustment, like the VVTi's in Toyota. The VVTLi in Celica's do, hence the "L". best way to tell is if it doesn't rev over 7500rpm (some civics and crx, and other cars of course can rev to 7500 with VTEC but dont have the LIFT technology), it don't have a high lift cam, so we can't really say that VTEC kicks in coz the variable valve timing adjustment is constantly changing throughout the rev range for performance, or economy, depending on your driving ie. throttle position.

It was banned in F1 for the reason that the possibilties of variable valve and electronic cam lift technology are endless for a racing team with deep pockets!

 

[Flip rSx driveR]

From what I'm getting out of this, I'm thinking it can be summed up that... VTEC provides excellent high-end performance, while not sacrificing low-end power like cars running strictly on high-lift cams. I'm no expert, but that's how I'm understanding it.

 

[KaiZen]

dead on mate!.. so how can it not be a performance tool?..

back on the thread question, in GT3 the sound of the VTEC was not simulated at all because when the high lift cam kicks in, which is at about 5200-5500 on the B series and H22 engines, there is a noticable engine note change. For those who haven't heard it, it goes from and steady build in engine noise to a sudden deep screaming wale in an instant, like it skipped a few thousand revs, and went from being a screaming 4 cylinder to a screaming V6 or 8 even. It's especially noticable with an aftermarket VTEC cam like one from Spoon or Mugen (my friend has one). brrrrrraaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMPPPP. It's amazing!

It is definately not there in GT2 or GT3! But I can't say if it is in GT4
which I found quite disappointing as a fan of VTEC. The screaming wale was there at high revs, but the cam change wasn't. You can always tell a performance VTEC, be it 4 cylinder or 6, by this wale. It's as destict as a Rotory or Boxer (flat 4/6 cyl) or V8 engine.

When the high lift cam kicks in it sounds like a totally different engine and most people missinterperate the build up of torque in "regular" VTEC and non VTEC cars with the very noticable engine sound in performance VTEC engines. Theres a huge difference!

Nothing on earth sounds like a well tuned VTEC engine! If you've ever heard one, you know what I mean. If you haven't, you don't know what you're missing!