Islam - What's your view on it?
- Thread starter SalmanBH
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Debunked and BS. All humans are equal regardless of ethnicity or religion. You are trying to push a narrative that one ethnicity or religion is somehow "better". Conflicts in are rarely really about religion or even ethnicity, but more about land and resources.
Scaff
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You actually think that swapping out one socially construct for another strengthens your argument?
It doesn't, not even close.
Oh, he did, as he's aware that it's a correlation and not causality.
It's down to a whole range of factors, all of which you ignored in the other thread, and still are.
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Scaff
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As the dreaded 'No-Go Zones' for various cities raises its head every now and again, this made me chuckle.
Its the same guy that also did this:
https://metro.co.uk/2018/02/05/fear...london-sharia-no-go-zone-7288616/?ito=twitter
Its the same guy that also did this:
https://metro.co.uk/2018/02/05/fear...london-sharia-no-go-zone-7288616/?ito=twitter
- 319
- Canada
- Stormer248
- Phendrax248
Figure this would be the place to share this. Just want to know people's input on it.
I live in a small town on the west coast of Canada. The majority of our population are retirees from Canada and the US, supported by average Canadian families, long-time redneck residents, an aboriginal reserve, and new immigrants from China, Britain, and India. I've lived here for over a decade had have probably seen maybe three Muslim families in that time, none of which have stayed permanently.
I work at our local Independent Grocer owned by Loblaws, and recently our meat manager has gotten fairly upset. Most of his products are not something he orders manually, but are instead shipped in by the company, and as of late he has started to receive in Halal meats. With our non-existent Muslim population, the majority of this meat merely sits on the shelf until expiry.
But that's not the main problem. The problem is that a lot of the retirees, activists, and local rednecks are disgusted by its presence in their market. Our meat manager is frequently accused of supporting animal abuse, terrorism, and even ISIS specifically. What's more, he can't do anything about it, as the meats themselves are part of Loblaws' own national diversity campaign, and the store manager fears that the store will be accused of discrimination for requesting to no longer receive in the products. Something the store already has a history of, after being smeared as racist for kicking out two aboriginal girls who were loitering and allegedly hiding cosmetic products.
So I wonder, should businesses have the right to reject certain religious products, if found to detract customers? And what's your views on Halal meats in general? Should it qualify as a part of religious freedom, or be one part of Islam that is best to be left behind?
I live in a small town on the west coast of Canada. The majority of our population are retirees from Canada and the US, supported by average Canadian families, long-time redneck residents, an aboriginal reserve, and new immigrants from China, Britain, and India. I've lived here for over a decade had have probably seen maybe three Muslim families in that time, none of which have stayed permanently.
I work at our local Independent Grocer owned by Loblaws, and recently our meat manager has gotten fairly upset. Most of his products are not something he orders manually, but are instead shipped in by the company, and as of late he has started to receive in Halal meats. With our non-existent Muslim population, the majority of this meat merely sits on the shelf until expiry.
But that's not the main problem. The problem is that a lot of the retirees, activists, and local rednecks are disgusted by its presence in their market. Our meat manager is frequently accused of supporting animal abuse, terrorism, and even ISIS specifically. What's more, he can't do anything about it, as the meats themselves are part of Loblaws' own national diversity campaign, and the store manager fears that the store will be accused of discrimination for requesting to no longer receive in the products. Something the store already has a history of, after being smeared as racist for kicking out two aboriginal girls who were loitering and allegedly hiding cosmetic products.
So I wonder, should businesses have the right to reject certain religious products, if found to detract customers? And what's your views on Halal meats in general? Should it qualify as a part of religious freedom, or be one part of Islam that is best to be left behind?
This feels pretty silly, who would he be discriminating? I think he's over egging the issue a little. Either the company that owns the store and supplies the food will do nothing, or they'll supply non-halal meat.
If the local inhabitants are really that averse to animal cruelty then they could either get their own local meat supply, or go vegan.
I also think that it really depends on how the animal is slaughtered. In the UK most supermarket suppliers simply recite a blessing before carrying out the slaughter the same as they would for any other animal. If you are not a Muslim I'm not sure why you would care what was said to an animal before it dies, it wont understand and once it's dead it wont matter anyway.
I don't think Halal meat is enforced anywhere in the west and is merely a device of capitalism. And when you look at how it's actually carried out, it's not meaningfully different to regular slaughter.
The issue your small town seems to have is education and good old xenophobia, more than it being an issue of religious freedoms.
I'm sure if it was more profitable for the company that owns the shop to sell non-halal meat, they would.
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- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
"Religious meat". I've heard it all now. It's no different from a "normal" product, it's just like drinking kosher coke. If I'm buying meat and the nearest butcher is halal I buy halal, really the choice comes down to the quality of the butchery, not down to the imaginary being who was praised at the offing.
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- TexRex72
Store conforms to guidelines set by chain nationally, local bigots boycott store.
The problem isn't guidelines but bigots.
Edit: I'm neither Muslim nor Jewish and yet I frequently buy food products prepared according to halal and kashrut standards, despite the presence of foods that aren't, because they are often better products.
The problem isn't guidelines but bigots.
Edit: I'm neither Muslim nor Jewish and yet I frequently buy food products prepared according to halal and kashrut standards, despite the presence of foods that aren't, because they are often better products.
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- TexRex72
I gather this is intended to be humorous and I suspect it somehow hinges on the "two packets", but I'm afraid I'm stymied.
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- TenEightyOne
- TenEightyOne
I think it was a fair enough question, when I was living in my no-go zone the 'issue' of Halal meat came up quite a bit. So I did some reading into it.
As an atheist it wouldn't make a difference what you recited to an animal before slaughtering it, but there seems to be a lot of misconception of how the slaughter is carried out. But when you look into it, it makes no sense for these slaughtering companies to specially and inefficiently slaughter animals when they don't have to.
But if you are in some backwater and are (by the sounds of it) a pretty conservative ageing little town, change is scary and even more so if it comes from the middle east. All you can do is try and educate them and hope they are able to understand the reality and if not... being vegan's better anyway!
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- Stormer248
- Phendrax248
Can very much confirm this. Most of the retirees are old-school conservative. Its no guess with the rednecks neither, and the town's had lots of problems between them and newer residents. Not to mention the legal issues some cause regarding vehicle rules and regulations. The pig farmer who picks up the leftover scraps from our produce department doesn't even have a reverse gear on his truck.
But at least there are some perks to living with such people, mainly their taste in cars....
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Osama Bin Laden was a truly effective terrorist. Even 20 years later, western folks (like, I presume @HenrySwanson ) are genuinely terrified of Muslims. Like 6 year old with monsters-under-the-bed scared. Like have panic attacks upon seeing Arabic script (even if it says "Ice Cream") scared -
بوظة
^^See, scary!
Of course he had a lot of help from the right-wing pundits pedaling their "sleeper cell" conspiracy which was really the most subversive of all of the-war-on-terror's nonsense components - ultimately consolidating fear and power to be instrumentalized by....the right wing pundits themselves! It must be the the same sort of gripping terror medieval European folks had of witches...and as equally well founded...and probably serving similar purposes.
Why are you soooo scared?
I've spent the last decade around many numerous Muslims, hundreds maybe. I haven't been blown up or hexed or cursed or stabbed or shot or even jihaded a single time. And I'm like super white, the kind terrorists love to put on pikes! You don't have to be afraid! Most of them aren't rednecks at all.
Joey D
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I only know kosher so I can only speak from that experience, but there is a difference in taste and texture. With kosher meat, there's no residual blood in the meat which makes it have a bit of a different texture and overall taste, mainly it's drier and has a slightly salty taste due to the process that pulls the blood out of the meat. I never really believed this, but my mother-in-law showed me by making a kosher chicken and a non-kosher chicken exactly the same way. I was surprised that it was pretty easy to tell the two apart despite both being chicken cooked at the same temperature for the same amount of time.
My guess is that most people don't eat the two back to back and I know I certainly never would've really noticed the difference unless someone did that for me. I suspect if you season the meat or cook it with something else, it probably would be pretty hard to tell too. However, if you've only ever eaten kosher meat all your life, I'm guessing you'd noticed if something wasn't.
Most other kosher stuff is the same as non-kosher food, it just has some blessing on it.
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- TexRex72
I just might have to get this tattooed on my forearm; I 🤬 love ice cream.
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Why do you presume this?
This is where the arguments falter - people rely on emotions rather than facts. Where I live has one of the larger Muslim populations in the country (at least a quarter are Muslim) - wouldn't I therefore be scared walking in my own neighbourhood?
(I also tried to study Arabic but gave it up because I wasn't getting it as quickly as I did Japanese)
Do you now see the stupidity of branding people racist without due consideration?
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I can’t tell if this is a joke or not
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I do enjoy your random specific demands. Instead, how about your original inane links to very recent terrorist attacks and how Islam is therefore inherently more violent than other religions. Followed by PAGES AND PAGES of you trying to explain this away by misreading and misunderstanding facts both you and others linked and presented.Yes, it's a joke - I'm racist and scared towards all my Muslim friends, co-workers and neighbours
Just for giggles - name me one post that I made about Bin Laden that even comes close to supporting the proposition made in that ridiculous post that has so many likes
I also liked how you managed to (all by yourself), to sneak in the racist lie that IQ and race are linked.
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- TexRex72
Heh.
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@HenrySwanson
You are generalizing entire populations of people with statistics. For instance you mentioned there is a relationship between IQ and Ethnicity. Statistically speaking, there may be some relationship based on the data set...though it's probably misleading and not causal like others have mentioned. But aside from that, lets think of an example. Let's say you have some astrophysicist that happens to be Muslim (I know one, anecdotally). If you met this person without knowing anything about them, you would (maybe subconsciously) pre-judge them based on your assumption "ok, Muslim...probably lower IQ and violent" which would be unfair to that individual. You get what I'm saying? Using statistics to wholesale categorize individuals based on some arbitrary human constructs limits your capacity to see humans as....well individual humans. When that human construct is "ethnicity" well then that specific form of prejudice is called racism. I know you don't see yourself as a racist....but your posts very clearly convey that you are. Basically what I'm getting at is that your attitude regarding Muslims (and others I would guess) cannot be explained rationally. You've fabricated a pretext for your position (statistics) because the underlying reason is probably not robust/defensible. (see previous post)
You are generalizing entire populations of people with statistics. For instance you mentioned there is a relationship between IQ and Ethnicity. Statistically speaking, there may be some relationship based on the data set...though it's probably misleading and not causal like others have mentioned. But aside from that, lets think of an example. Let's say you have some astrophysicist that happens to be Muslim (I know one, anecdotally). If you met this person without knowing anything about them, you would (maybe subconsciously) pre-judge them based on your assumption "ok, Muslim...probably lower IQ and violent" which would be unfair to that individual. You get what I'm saying? Using statistics to wholesale categorize individuals based on some arbitrary human constructs limits your capacity to see humans as....well individual humans. When that human construct is "ethnicity" well then that specific form of prejudice is called racism. I know you don't see yourself as a racist....but your posts very clearly convey that you are. Basically what I'm getting at is that your attitude regarding Muslims (and others I would guess) cannot be explained rationally. You've fabricated a pretext for your position (statistics) because the underlying reason is probably not robust/defensible. (see previous post)
Danoff
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I'm not even sure you were getting at this but... I just want to say... Muslim is not a race.
