isn't it amazing?

[code_kev]

"CobraGT, you don't seem to realise that the PS2 as goodas it is, has limits to what it can do both technically and graphically."

He lives in a world where limits don't exist, a place with the human element (2d sprite ppl), and particle effects. A world of emotion engines nurbs and muskrats


Cobragt, I want to know how this human element works, i find it interesting? How do u tell when a game uses it? Would burnout 2 on the ps2 use it and the xbox version not? What advantages does the mighty human element make. Or am I right in thinking that anygame with anything human shaped in uses the PS2's human element chip? Can I get a human element chip in my pc...hmmm mehbeh i could buy another ps2 and stick it in, or wait, stick 2 human element chips in one ps2!! OMFG IMAGINE THE POWER, I could take over the world

WEE_MAN, there is only one hope, GO FOR THE HUMAN ELEMENT CHIP!!! it is the weak spot!!

 

[Dave A]

No matter how many times we tell him he won't see sence.

 

[wee_man]

Arrgh...ghaaaddd..bbbhhhaaahhiiii!!!
It's no good the human element chip is giving it the power to predict everything I'm doing!!!!
bbjajaaaarppp!!!!
Ah ha...it can predict everything apart from my one weekness of following through!!!!
*turns round and follows through in almitally classy style n nutts the element chip right on the noggin!*
That will sort it. And follow through man saves the day once more!!!

 

[code_kev]

/me looks down at soiled PS2..

well im not cleaning that up

 

[Dave A]

We need to alert the world, follow through on your PS2.

 

[wee_man]

CobraGT will probably burst into tears if he hears that his beloved and ultimate PS2 has been shown to have a weakness.

 

[exhaust_note]

fix the picture, they aint working...

 

[ricademus]

Lets be fair to cobragt,
In his eyes, this human element chips means he can now finally believe he's got a gf. After all, now the machine feels and thinks on its own, he doesnt feel quite as dirty taking the PS2 to bed!!!

But i have to ask, wats it like to be rejected not only by women but by a machine as well??

Do you think the PS2 would get up and make breakfast!?!?!?!

I have to thank cobragt and his nonsense jittering, if it wasnt for him, i might have to stop laughing!

 

[cobragt]

Now that wasn't cool at all but w/e man.

 

[emad]

Originally posted by Majin SSJ Eric
"I think I read somewhere in some magazine that you've never heard of printed in hyroglyphs that the entire NATO missile defense grid is run by 12 PS2's!!!! Apparently the PS2 is powerful enough to run the grid by itself but the other 11 are there just for backup.

that's not tooooo far from the truth. it's not a government funded research, but they ARE using linux on ps2's to allow them to link together and share processing power in order to make an "affordable" supercomputer type system. this is because the emotion engine's key selling point is the fact that it's designed to handle extremely complex calculations. that's also how it's possible to software render many graphics on the ps2 that the graphics board may not be able to handle. this of course, is at the expense of complexity in the possible calculations the ps2 can do in that particular point.

last point i'd like to make is based on my experiences learning graphic arts and programming. this is based primarily around the easier programming for xbox and it's my complaints on directx and how it's hindered my progress....till i learned about opengl

directx is very limited in capabilities and drains the graphics board heavily. the primary benefit to it is in the easy programming for it. This is ease of programming is the reason why OpenGL was abandoned in all but the most gpu/cpu intensive programs like 3d studio, Maya, Lightwave, etc, etc. These apps come with directx capabilities, but they are incredibly slow and can barely allow the manipulation of 10000 polygon scenes (again, from experience). Since these apps are opengl based, their drawback is that a radeon9800 or geforce whatever won't completely support opengl in terms of efficiency. they work awesome with the apps, i'm saying this from experience, but their drivers are optimised for directx and so they can't handle the apps as great as the $700 ATI FireGL and NVidia's counterpart to it...but they're very expensive cards designed for big workstations.

so...case in point, harder programming yes, but better on the fly results if the hardware is capable of it and the code is efficient. directx is just a bit sloppy and power hungry for 3d stuff. which is why lower system requirements for opengl games with comparable graphics (for their time).

 

[T5-R]

Contary to popular belief the PS2 power cable is actually not transfering power from the mains for the PS2 to operate, but actually the other way round. The PS2 is such a powerful machine it has managed to break the unthinkable and create energy out of nothing.

This means that fossil fuels in a few years time will be obsolete. Why do you think so many car modders stick PS2's in there cars? Its to prepare on the future of transport when petrol & diesel are no longer needed! See it isn't for fun & games they are thinking seriously about the enviroment when they mod their cars.

Anyway it is well known the PS2 powers 25% of the worlds powegrid but with a bit more optimisation and art from talented software studios (such as Polyphony Digital), as part of SCEJ. The new model of PS2 actually provides 75% extra power output enough to light up an entire town for 55 days! - An official statement from SCEJ(Tea boy).

Must be true if it came from Sony eh cobragt?

 

[emad]

jeeze guys....leave cobra alone for a while...i think ur gonna hurt his feelings soon

 

[code_kev]

"that's not tooooo far from the truth. it's not a government funded research, but they ARE using linux on ps2's to allow them to link together and share processing power in order to make an "affordable" supercomputer type system"

emad im gonna assume your taking the piss, no government would be stupid enough to use a fricking toy to power their systems! Why would they use a ps2 when they can use FAR more powerful pcs?!? Are you seriosly saying that they would use a ps2 over a 3.2 ghz pc or what ever masive systems they have?

 

[wee_man]

Actually the government have far more powerful PC's at their disposal. I heard some rumor some where that thye've even created up to 5 ghz processors (whether thats true or not is another thing). It's phesable as well, because if they gradually upgrade the power of proccessors all the computer nuts that keep their PC's up to date as possible will by the fastest and best thing on the market to date. Though if they suddenly jump 1 mhz at a time they're nopt making as much potential cash as they could do.

 

[emad]

Originally posted by code_kev
"that's not tooooo far from the truth. it's not a government funded research, but they ARE using linux on ps2's to allow them to link together and share processing power in order to make an "affordable" supercomputer type system"

emad im gonna assume your taking the piss, no government would be stupid enough to use a fricking toy to power their systems! Why would they use a ps2 when they can use FAR more powerful pcs?!? Are you seriosly saying that they would use a ps2 over a 3.2 ghz pc or what ever masive systems they have?

all i can say...is the only thing more massive than a 3.2 ghz intel chip right now is a 2ghz 64 bit athlon. the 64 bit processing is capable of handling twice the data rates and can handle more complex calculations. that being said, the ps2 is a testbed for 128 bit processing. it's a fully functional computer that can very easily outhandle any home pc on the market (that's if it's linux enabled) due to the data rate of the 128 bit architecture. it's the ps2's mathematical capabilities that make it such an interesting alternative for anyone looking to build a massive computer at little expense. to top that, the chip on the ps2 has a far higher data bandwidth than anything you can currently just go out and get. No number of GHz is going to make you a better computer. in fact, ghz is nothing now with the introduction of 64 bit and 128bit processing.

keep inmind, that most supercomputers run in the area of over $50k for the most basic of the basic generic machines. Most are custom built for the user and can go up to and over $1 million. Apples are classified as supercomputers but they can't exactly be linked to eachother like ps2's

wee_man...let me say 1 thiing about the 5ghz processors:
5 years ago, my school recieved a donation of 10 OUTDATED computers from some company. the computers were about 3 years old at the time and had 1.2 ghz processors it them. that's at the time when 600mhz was an unattainable dream. at the time though, the pc's were worth over $15000 apiece and their sole purpose was video and graphics.


i've been using computers all my life, i've been taking them apart, experimenting with them, and trying to learn as much about them as possible. yes...i AM ur typical computer geek. i know just about all i could ever need to know and then some. yet there's always something new to learn in the field. u just gotta look around and stop assuming stuff.

 

[code_kev]

emad i have one thing too say.

you are indeed silly


plus im sure some guys from id said that the ps2 mathmatical capabilites werent really that impressive tbh.

"Frankly, the PS2 couldn't do the math calculations for the geometry acceleration, real time shadows and light. GameCube is the same thing, no version planned.
"

that emad is a QUOTE from id on a doom 3 ps2 conversion. ffs i hate having to go so low and find quotes, but ur just talking crap emad. Plus I trust ID more then I trust your opinion! ofc it could just be ID kissing some MS ass (ms did after all pay em for a conversion of doom3)

"it's a fully functional computer that can very easily outhandle any home pc on the market (that's if it's linux enabled) due to the data rate of the 128 bit architecture." (tbh i would find it hard to believe that a ps2 would run doom 3 very well, heck it even pushes my pc)

ok emad, 3200xp barton cpu, radeon 9800 xt (256mb), 2 gigs of 3200 mem, nforce 2+ and an audidgy 2, all running on win xp.
Id like to see ANY console including a PS2 beat that u wally, hell I'd like to see any console match it!!!

"i've been using computers all my life, i've been taking them apart, experimenting with them, and trying to learn as much about them as possible."

Could have fooled me into thinking otherwise.

I'm not flaming the PS2, so don't even start that, I'm just saying that emad is once again, joining the ranks of cobragt

 

[emad]

http://arrakis.ncsa.uiuc.edu/ps2/index.php

read up

i was talking about that purely as a pc man

ideally, this can even be done with xbox

 

[emad]

http://news.com.com/2100-1043_3-1010037.html

if it doesn't work, hit esc as soon as the text shows...news.com is being weird for me

 

[code_kev]

And all this means what emad, dont just cop out and link us to some boring website. I want you to say...

"my ps2 is BETTER, FASTER and outperforms ANY pc ever anywhere"

go on emad, your implying it.

Lets see the ps2 run half life 2 like a pc, ill eat my shoes if it does! You say it's a supercomputer, but all you ever do is talk rubbish and give us links to boring websites about pretending the ps2 is a supercomputer. Its a TOY, no one with any kind of sanity would use it as a supercomputer!

 

[emad]

did u even check the link?

from http://www.ncsa.uiuc.edu
"Researchers at NCSA theorized that because of the unique processor of the PS2—with its two powerful vector units designed to manipulate polygons for game displays—a cluster of the consoles could potentially be used for scientific computation. "

either way...i'm out of this one

 

[code_kev]

i checked both links, the 2nd one after posting my first post.


"Perhaps the most striking aspect of the project, which uses the open-source Linux operating system, is that the only hardware engineering involved was placing 70 of the individual game machines in a rack and plugging them together with a high-speed Hewlett-Packard network switch."


70 ps2's...ofc its going to be fast. If i managed to somehow hook up 70 gamecubes or xboxs im sure it would be just as fast if not faster.

 

[Dave A]

A cluster of them could, but so could a cluster of other consoles.

 

[wee_man]

Emad, personally I have better things to do rather than looking around to see what the fastest pc to date is.

 

[Majin SSJ Eric]

Hey Code, you tried to flame emad and the ps2 and he proved you wrong. Deal with it. If linking GC's or XB's would be faster or better, don't you suppose the good folks at the National Center for Supercomputing Applications at the University of Illinois would have chosen to link them instead of PS2's? I'm not saying that the PS2 is better than the XB, but it can't be denied that it has strengths that the other consoles (or perhaps even PC's) may lack in terms of graphical abilities.

 

[dudy]

the xbox is just a computer in a box

look i dont no much about hardware and im not going to act like i do but if a xbox is a computer in a box dose that mean i can play my computer games on the xbox no but in all the last time i checked the cheapest computer you can buy was like 500$ so if
xbox is a computer in a box mircosoft would looze money on the xbox. Also just because mircosoft makes computers witch IMO suck, dosent mean its like a computer. And i bet you that when they made the xbox they dident even use the same programers that they use with there computers. And as far as this tpoic goes it should be moved. Do you no theres a form for systems on this site. see you learn something every day.

 

[Dave A]

Before anyone has a go at you, when you say computer you mean a PC right, cos every console is a computer.

 

[dudy]

ya sorry

 

[Glut]

To quote from a page linked to from that site:

we compare the performance of the PIII-600 and Playstation 2 for 32-element single-precision vector dot products. The absolute performance for smaller datasets now tops 150MFLOPS for both the EE and PIII processors. Curiously, one sees a performance hit on the EE once the dataset exceeds 5 million vectors. This is almost certainly a consequence of the small amount of memory available on the PS2.

keep in mind lower is better.

Here we see that the vector unit of the PS2 is managing to keep up with that of the PIII 600mhz for small data sets, but is blown away on large data sets.
For a comparison, BLAS run on a P4 2.8 ghz by aces hardware has it doing 1480 MFLOPS, about 10x the speed of the PS2 on the PS2's best operation.
But that's not really fair on the P4. The P4 is doing double precision calculations, compared to the PS2's single precision calculations...

now, I laugh.

 

[code_kev]

YES. but does it have the human elemen? No, look at crash bandicoot, have you ever seen such a reallistic bandicoot in a game? NO! Well thats the human element I think they call it. When the untapped potential of the ps2 is realised, the ps2 will be the most powerful thing ever made. We will be able to talk to our ps2s. We can throw out pcs away too, because they lack the element of human, and will seem, how you say, slow like a fat man running the 100m. yes yes! The ps2 can do 4 million nanoflops, compared to the pcs 1.2 nanflops. The ps2 has 3 gigs of floptical ram, how much does the pc have? NONE!! I got all my info from a site on the net, but i no know where I put the link.

 

[ricademus]

I would really luv to see 70 PS2's out perform 70 top spec PC's linked together. Besides, when is anyone gonna be stupid enough to buy 70PS2's. I own two (only becoz the silver version was sexy) but i aint gonna start contemplating sticking them together. Why dont you people get a social life (and get laid) and instead of browsing the internet for jargon and nonsense trying to prove a pointless point, go out and enjoy urself!!!!

The PS2 is a games console, simple as, its made to play games, it plays games and to behonest the only frigging reason i bought the PS2 was for the games.