It’s OK to back out of a pass.

[TCG]

Hey all!

So after about 3 weeks playing sport mode I am beginning to see a pattern forming with a majority of drivers and what leads to a majority of frustrating incidents in online races.

PEOPLE NOT BACKING OUT OF A PASS THAT IS GOING TO FAIL.

How do we teach drivers that it’s ok to back out of a pass when it’s clearly not going to work. 99% of the time that I’ve been involved with an incident resulting in a SR and/or Time penalty is when some muppet tries a move, and instead of realising it’s not quite going to work and applying the anchors, just charges on through regardless. This is how side swipes and poorly timed punting seems to be occurring most often.

Knowing when not to pass is a far greater skill imo than passing at all costs and I wonder if anyone has any ideas how this can be taught in-game?

 

[RedlineRacer]

It’s just a casual racer’s mindset that since its “just a game” there’s no consequences to causing a crash or a dispute. There needs to be a way to get this through some of their heads, I just try to message them afterwords and kindly let them know that you don’t have to try to pass during every corner, it’s better to be patient for a good opportunity or a mistake.

But it is really frustrating.

 

[Spongeinside]

I usually back out of about 98% of my overtaking attempts because I see the person I’m trying to pass ‘close the door’ or do something stupid ie weave unpredictably/erratically...

I totally agree that knowing when to back out is a priceless skill, but also, knowing when you’re beat / don’t slam the door like an ‘🤬‘ is as valuable

 

[Lord Protector]

Hey all!

So after about 3 weeks playing sport mode I am beginning to see a pattern forming with a majority of drivers and what leads to a majority of frustrating incidents in online races.

PEOPLE NOT BACKING OUT OF A PASS THAT IS GOING TO FAIL.

How do we teach drivers that it’s ok to back out of a pass when it’s clearly not going to work. 99% of the time that I’ve been involved with an incident resulting in a SR and/or Time penalty is when some muppet tries a move, and instead of realising it’s not quite going to work and applying the anchors, just charges on through regardless. This is how side swipes and poorly timed punting seems to be occurring most often.

Knowing when not to pass is a far greater skill imo than passing at all costs and I wonder if anyone has any ideas how this can be taught in-game?

There is Racing Etiquette part of the game with events focused on this.. oh wait PD replaced them with 2 videos.

So no.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I don't think you can change that griefer mindset in the vast majority of people anymore than you can sprinkle fairy dust on YT comments and make them readable. It is what it is and you have to hope the driver rating system punishes them enough to relegate them into races you are no longer a part of if you are a clean driver. You have basically two kinds of people racing online IME. Those that think of it as just another game and those that want a simulation experience that simulates real life as close as possible. Your odds of converting the first group into the second group are pretty slim IMO other than by instituting game rules and limitations to force them into it.

 

[Nando deBem]

Maybe they should create an etiquette mode where people are up against really fast, but erratic AI with contact fail. It should also be mandatory to gold it to go online.

I’m kidding. Obviously, not gonna happen.

 

[SeeNoWeevil]

People have had decades of single player racing games being balanced for/rewarding of dirty driving against AI that is equally dirty.

 

[Dairyworker]

I don't even know what to say about some of the stuff i have seen. Some folks seem to think that if they dont win they get nothing. This game (imo) is about the racing experiance, not just winning. Instead of gunning for first no matter what, how about you just race the guy in front of you, you still get moneys and experience and stuff even if you don't win. I will never understand someone that tries to pass through a chicane....

 

[SeeNoWeevil]

I don't even know what to say about some of the stuff i have seen. Some folks seem to think that if they dont win they get nothing. This game (imo) is about the racing experiance, not just winning. Instead of gunning for first no matter what, how about you just race the guy in front of you, you still get moneys and experience and stuff even if you don't win. I will never understand someone that tries to pass through a chicane....

Challenge mode is full of 'start last and drive like a nut until you get first', as is every other racing game campaign mode. It's lame imo.

 

[Urinal2001]

Its the mentality that YOU are more deserving of winning the race than anyone out there that causes many issues. We all are guilty of it to some extent. A good example for me is all the missions/circuit/school challenges.... anything less than gold feels like a failure. A silver doesnt feel like second place, it feels like 'you failed, but you can move on to the next challenge if you want'. The same goes for racing online for some people, anything less than first place may as well be last place, so they will do anything to try and get there, and sod anyone else. Because no-one else matters.

 

[bmxmitch]

Cars in sport mode need full damage on!
Easiest solution IMO. Even though the damage isn't very well implemented in GTS (after years, NO improvement on this topic)

 

[JulesDennis]

I don't even know what to say about some of the stuff i have seen. Some folks seem to think that if they dont win they get nothing. This game (imo) is about the racing experiance, not just winning. Instead of gunning for first no matter what, how about you just race the guy in front of you, you still get moneys and experience and stuff even if you don't win. I will never understand someone that tries to pass through a chicane....

It can get more "crazy" sometimes.
You want an example?
Nations Cup 2 days ago.
3 wide in the start/finish straight.
Me,the guy that Q 1st place and another one.Going to the first turn where there is a backmarker that waits to get lapped (to be fair he was doing the right thing all the way,kept his line and gave as much room as possible).
I could see it coming from far away (when not as bad as it turned in the end) so I break really early and leave those two (the 1Q drivers was really "reckeless" the entire race) to go together to that corner.
So what happens?
They bump doors.One goes hard breaks and inside the other goes outside where the backmarker is.
They both try to go 3 wide with the back marker.
The guy in the inside line breaks hard again and change line in the midle of the corner.,because he cant make the turn work.The other guy goes hard-brakes mid corner,gets minor contact with the backmarker and hits the wall,again because he cant make the turn work.
I am behind all these taking the corner as I should.The moment I am mid corner the 1str guy goes hard into me,pushing me to the 2nd guy (he is a ghost btw) and pretty much in front of the backmarker and into the wall.I get a 10 sec penalty for the wall contact.
Those 2 get zero penalty.

 

[LAVAMAN_82]

Embrace the Dark Side. That's all I have to say.

 

[Outspacer]

Hey all!

So after about 3 weeks playing sport mode I am beginning to see a pattern forming with a majority of drivers and what leads to a majority of frustrating incidents in online races.

PEOPLE NOT BACKING OUT OF A PASS THAT IS GOING TO FAIL.

How do we teach drivers that it’s ok to back out of a pass when it’s clearly not going to work. 99% of the time that I’ve been involved with an incident resulting in a SR and/or Time penalty is when some muppet tries a move, and instead of realising it’s not quite going to work and applying the anchors, just charges on through regardless. This is how side swipes and poorly timed punting seems to be occurring most often.

Knowing when not to pass is a far greater skill imo than passing at all costs and I wonder if anyone has any ideas how this can be taught in-game?

Even without incident, it can be very frustrating. One race last night I was (I think) 5th, and looked like I had the pace of those ahead. 6th place keep pushing for a pass but could never make it stick. All clean racing, but we were falling back from the leaders when instead we could have both been easily making a gap on those behind. In the end I think they caught and devoured him

The same result has happened with me being the car behind, wishing the one in front would stop defending against a pass I wasn't going to try. It would be better for us to save our battle until we had more space behind us. I try to communicate that I'm not trying to pass by positioning my car on the normal racing line, early, but it doesn't register.

Sometimes it's a team game... or enemy of enemy being in alliance for a while at least

 

[Sean Renon]

I usually back out of about 98% of my overtaking attempts because I see the person I’m trying to pass ‘close the door’ or do something stupid ie weave unpredictably/erratically...

I totally agree that knowing when to back out is a priceless skill, but also, knowing when you’re beat / don’t slam the door like an ‘🤬‘ is as valuable

I want to clarify something, as I'm new to the racing sim genre, but am currently DR:B and SR:A working my way to SR:S.

I know what weaving is, and I genuinely try to avoid it, but I will close the door on people trying to dive the inside of corners on me. Typically it happens when I have somebody following me who's going roughly the same speed, not drastically faster - and instead of taking a driving line they want to dive on the inside of a corner to pass me.
In this situation I usually just turn into my corner sooner than normal, taking a not so ideal line, but closing the inside dive bomb. Usually this means they back out, but I've had some force their way right over a curb just to keep inside of me.

To clarify, I'm not blocking somebody who's got a clear run of speed inside of me, it's just preventing an attempted underbrake.

Would you classify that as being an ass?

 

[Johnnypenso]

I don't even know what to say about some of the stuff i have seen. Some folks seem to think that if they dont win they get nothing. This game (imo) is about the racing experiance, not just winning. Instead of gunning for first no matter what, how about you just race the guy in front of you, you still get moneys and experience and stuff even if you don't win. I will never understand someone that tries to pass through a chicane....

Some people, PD included, mistakenly believed that you could change the mindset of the entire community with a couple of videos calling you a bad driver. Instead of designing an offline campaign mode the featured beginner, moderate and hardcore racing aspects to it, with training focused on all of the common issues we find in online racing, they took basically the same license tests they've had for 20 years and repackaged them in 4k. The entire campaign should have, from beginning to end, focused on racing, tying in cut scenes from real life and properly spoken targeted advice from experienced sim racers and real racers alike. Imagine watching videos on overtaking in sim racing with narration and advice from the likes of Jann Mardenborough, Lucas Ordonez or Lewis Hamilton. Imagine watching videos on proper oval racing featuring Jimmy Johnson or Jr.

There is an absolute treasure trove of knowledgeable, personable, experienced racers associated with this franchise or who could be hired to provide guidance and help to new and more experienced racers alike. They really could have knocked it out of the park with the Campaign Mode and turned it into the de facto standard for training online racers in this genre. Instead it's basically a copy paste with updated graphics. Another huge, lost opportunity for PD.

 

[ChauncyMarsh]

Maybe if the races were longer people would drive better? I (we?) know that if you're not in pole, 2nd or 3rd the chances are you will be in a scrum all race, 1/2/3 will have a good ole time keeping their lines with no riff raff, and one of them will win (usually pole). If you start in the front, it's a breeze. Anywhere else and it's a dogfight (unfortunately) b/c you only have a couple laps to get to the front.

 

[JulesDennis]

Maybe if the races were longer people would drive better? I (we?) know that if you're not in pole, 2nd or 3rd the chances are you will be in a scrum all race, 1/2/3 will have a good ole time keeping their lines with no riff raff, and one of them will win (usually pole). If you start in the front, it's a breeze. Anywhere else and it's a dogfight (unfortunately) b/c you only have a couple laps to get to the front.

Not necessarily.
Some that are in pole position (by 0.00.1xx) and think "I am faster than everyone" go really crazy if they lose (in a clean manner) 3 spots in 1-2 laps.

 

[demeaning pie]

Maybe if the races were longer people would drive better? I (we?) know that if you're not in pole, 2nd or 3rd the chances are you will be in a scrum all race, 1/2/3 will have a good ole time keeping their lines with no riff raff, and one of them will win (usually pole). If you start in the front, it's a breeze. Anywhere else and it's a dogfight (unfortunately) b/c you only have a couple laps to get to the front.

The problem with this is you will get a handful of people who when attempting to barge their way to the front (from the back) and fail, will quit the race. 🤬's will be 🤬's no matter how long or short the race.

I do prefer longer races as it gives you an opportunity to build a rhythm. There are also the racers who can race flat out for a lap or two but can't maintain the pace over race distance that always go off track/crash, giving you the opportunity to make up places.

 

[ChauncyMarsh]

Not necessarily.
Some that are in pole position (by 0.00.1xx) and think "I am faster than everyone" go really crazy if they lose (in a clean manner) 3 spots in 1-2 laps.

I get it, and agree with you. Maybe I'm just longing for a nice long race with pitting and strategy and stuff. Really enjoying the game, btw. I brush off the childish behavior, try to be "sportsmanship" when I screw up and keep racing.

 

[covan2306]

It's an arcade racer mindset that will be hard to remove from a lot of people, on part they just do not care, also even though there is safety rating, they see the position in that race is more important than an overall grade.
From watching a lot of racers, people use bull headed logic in both breaking, cornering and passing, very messy and inacurate, sadly if they dive bomb the inside line and hit a safer driver, usually thanks to the frustrating penalty system, safer driver takes the hit, to SR, position and sometimes even a 10second penalty for their troubles.

People need to relax, race their race, watch the oppositions corners and pounce upon the correct oportunity.

The fact we have 3 lap races does not help, very little time in 3 laps to observe another racer, especially when watching your own back on every turn for a kamikazee dip****.

 

[demeaning pie]

I get it, and agree with you. Maybe I'm just longing for a nice long race with pitting and strategy and stuff. Really enjoying the game, btw. I brush off the childish behavior, try to be "sportsmanship" when I screw up and keep racing.

Create a room and send out invites. I'm always down for 20-30 minute races with like minded racers. If I win I win, and if I lose I lose. I'd sooner lose a hard fought clean race for fifth than checking out up front for the win.

 

[BigDawg_1281]

I think it's like any other game. When it first comes out, everyone is excited. They don't care how they are affecting the other players. Eventually, they either learn to play the way it should be played... or they move on to the next new game. Idk if any of you play Battlefield, but that's exactly how BF1 played out. At first, people were running every where as tho it was COD. But, with time, the either learned to play their role and the objective, or they moved on. It sucks, but it's usually the way it goes.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Damage isn't the answer. The SR is proof of that.

I had some guy try to drive around the outside of me last night. He got along side, but never got in front of me. I know this because I had the radar on. We were nose to nose and he just turned in anyway. And, of course, I lose SR because there was contact.

Seriously, wtf? ON Thursday I went into the dailys with a B-B rating. Then, the Brazilians attacked and by the end of the day I was a D-E!!!! WTF???? It took me until last night to get my rating back. The way SR gets scored needs work. I got brake checked on a straight and I got a 10 second penalty!!

Create a room and send out invites. I'm always down for 20-30 minute races with like minded racers. If I win I win, and if I lose I lose. I'd sooner lose a hard fought clean race for fifth than checking out up front for the win.

That's no different than being in a competitive sports league and then going out with your buddies to play pick up. No ratings, no achievements, nothing. I play competitive men's soccer and all that matters are the wins and losses. Not one man on my team would rather "send out invites" for a private, meaningless game.

It's easy to play clean when there's nothing on the line.

 

[Shottah072]

I want to clarify something, as I'm new to the racing sim genre, but am currently DR:B and SR:A working my way to SR:S.

I know what weaving is, and I genuinely try to avoid it, but I will close the door on people trying to dive the inside of corners on me. Typically it happens when I have somebody following me who's going roughly the same speed, not drastically faster - and instead of taking a driving line they want to dive on the inside of a corner to pass me.
In this situation I usually just turn into my corner sooner than normal, taking a not so ideal line, but closing the inside dive bomb. Usually this means they back out, but I've had some force their way right over a curb just to keep inside of me.

To clarify, I'm not blocking somebody who's got a clear run of speed inside of me, it's just preventing an attempted underbrake.

Would you classify that as being an ass?

This is on the grey side of things when done in the braking zone. If the driver behind is capable he should be able to back out on the last moment. But if he is not you are setting yourself up for trouble. So with this move you are very dependant of the driver behind and his skill level and racecraft. To be safe it would be better to pick the inside line before the braking zone if the driver behind has a clear run. If not then just stick to normal line and try to brake as late as possible to still make the apex. When you do that and he was still not alongside before braking it would theoratically be impossible for him to make a clean pas and it would be up to him to back off or not even try at all.

 

[Northstar]

I blame Ayrton Senna.

 

[razu]

Make a third video, stating that "NOT BACKING OUT OF A PASS THAT IS GOING TO FAIL makes you look bad. Looking bad is bad."

 

[Voodoovaj]

Make a third video, stating that "NOT BACKING OUT OF A PASS THAT IS GOING TO FAIL makes you look bad. Looking bad is bad."

They have the ability to ghost players and predict crashes. It was in GT6. Why is that toned down now? Why should I be penalized for t-boning someone that has spun back onto the track? They seriously didn't test this with real world conditions. Sending Beta invites out to fans who will drive properly isn't an accurate test of the real world where people don't care.

And I think that Brazilians need their own servers for the sake of the rest of us.

 

[Sean Renon]

Seriously, wtf? ON Thursday I went into the dailys with a B-B rating. Then, the Brazilians attacked and by the end of the day I was a D-E!!!! WTF???? It took me until last night to get my rating back. The way SR gets scored needs work. I got brake checked on a straight and I got a 10 second penalty!!

Honestly, I don't have any problem with Brazilian drivers.
In fact, my last 2 FIA cup races there have been a Brazilian and an Argentinian driver in the top 3, both driving very fast and very clean.
Yes, some of them have bad internet, but more often than not they're fine drivers, the only asshats I've had to deal with have been the teenagers driving GT-R's around a track like it's Mario Kart, underbraking every corner - using other cars as personal cushions.

 

[covan2306]

I went into the dailys with a B-B rating. Then, the Brazilians attacked and by the end of the day I was a D-E!!!! WTF???? It took me until last night to get my rating back. The way SR gets scored needs work. I got brake checked on a straight and I got a 10 second penalty!!

I'm stuck in an endless loop of B-B/B-A to D-E/D-D all due to the unavoidable team death match that the mentioned nation likes to invoke.