Jonboys Fanatec CSR-Elite News and Reviews...Updates now in OP

[amf7]

Looking forward to it

Would love to see some more general gameplay.. especially a lap on GT5 around Nurburgring gp track if that's possible. And even more specific in lmp cars?

Some f1 2011 would also be welcome to me

Thanks

 

[jonboy1066]

I'll do what I can, I have GT5 and I have XBox and PS3 copies of F1 2011 so when I get the chance I will be reviewing the wheel on all those games + More

 

[LogiForce]

Yep sorry, it's taking a while. It's a 14 minute vid and the upload is still going on, and now the kids are home from School my daughter's got to do her homework on the internet, so she's slowed things down considerably.

You may need to wait another hour ... sorry, can't help it.

No worries. I am just lightyears ahead in terms of internet connection speed. Don't mind me. Like I said earlier studies are more important.

 

[jonboy1066]

No worries. I am just lightyears ahead in terms of internet connection speed.

Yeah yeah ... whatever LOL

Anyway here you go...

 

[urm]

Did you try to keep the paddle pressed during downshift?
The clutch remains disengaged and kicks back in when its released.

 

[LogiForce]

Yeah yeah ... whatever LOL

Anyway here you go...

Yay... *does a happy dance* LOL

 

[Spagetti69]

Not sure what your proving with changing in game manual clutch on and off between tests mate?

 

[jonboy1066]

Not sure what your proving with changing in game manual clutch on and off between tests mate?

The diffence in shift times with it on compared to off and the acceleration gains...

 

[Spagetti69]

The diffence in shift times with it on compared to off and the acceleration gains...

Manual without clutch is slower than manual with clutch with or without ACL though.

Pedal shifting is faster than manual without clutch Jon.
It's not really a wheel feature that's making you quicker it's Forzas handicap system that penalises non clutch users.

A better and more interesting comparison would have been Manual/clutch ACL vs pedal shifting.

Don't want to sound ungrateful because I'm not and you seem a cool guy so thanks anyway.

The biggest and best advantage of ACL is actually driving paddle shift cars 458 Italia without having to use a clutch like real life. And not getting penalised time wise for not using clutch. I imagine that is what Thomas wanted.

I my self have asked numerous times for us to be able to drive Paddle shift cars without having to use my foot on the clutch. That feels so unrealistic but online you had no choice because clutch uses gain .1 per shift. As you pointed out.

 

[jonboy1066]

Ahhh right I see what you mean now.

I think my vid has shown that in the S Class cars (like Ferrari 458 Italia) the gains are less obvious, however they are there so you will now be able to compete against the finger gymnasts with an Elite wheel.

I don't think I need to make anymore vids on the subjuect really, that last 14 mins took me 6 hours from conception to upload so I think next time around I'll concentrate on FFB... which with that new FW 717 is chuffing amazing by the way!

 

[Spagetti69]

Your a regular Internet soldier Jon.
You deserve a virtual medal.

Incidentally your the only one to respond to my questions so far.

Thanks.

 

[jonboy1066]

You're welcome mate.

 

[VWMasteR]

You're welcome mate.

Does ACL work with the sequential?

 

[mikochu]

yeah, I like you, jonboy1066.

 

[LogiForce]

The biggest and best advantage of ACL is actually driving paddle shift cars 458 Italia without having to use a clutch like real life. And not getting penalised time wise for not using clutch. I imagine that is what Thomas wanted.

I my self have asked numerous times for us to be able to drive Paddle shift cars without having to use my foot on the clutch. That feels so unrealistic but online you had no choice because clutch uses gain .1 per shift. As you pointed out.

Now we're talking about how real cars handle the clutch with the paddles, I remember that Ferrari was trying to find the sweet spot in timing to overcome the jolt you get from shifting gear. I wonder if Thomas is willing to add an option to ACL to control the timing of the double clutching, a bit like fine tuning the clutch. I think that would help a lot of people in the end, certainly when with certain games the clutch and transmission get a more realistic simulation.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

I wonder what T10 thought about ACL and if Fanatec communicated with them that they are implementing such a feature. It is more or less a cheating function and gives people who have ACL a huge advantage in terms of race pace and also time trialling over any other wheel or pad user. T10 really should not force people to use clutch button to be competitive.

 

[jonboy1066]

Does ACL work with the sequential?

I don't know, not tried it. My son's got a sequential shifter upstairs, I'll drag it down and have a go next time I get a chance.

 

[VWMasteR]

I wonder what T10 thought about ACL and if Fanatec communicated with them that they are implementing such a feature. It is more or less a cheating function and gives people who have ACL a huge advantage in terms of race pace and also time trialling over any other wheel or pad user. T10 really should not force people to use clutch button to be competitive.

This is partially incorrect. The ACL was coded to help compete with the pad users, who pioneered this technique.

I don't know, not tried it. My son's got a sequential shifter upstairs, I'll drag it down and have a go next time I get a chance.

Thanks!

 

[Spagetti69]

I wonder what T10 thought about ACL and if Fanatec communicated with them that they are implementing such a feature. It is more or less a cheating function and gives people who have ACL a huge advantage in terms of race pace and also time trialling over any other wheel or pad user. T10 really should not force people to use clutch button to be competitive.

Tried it have you?

Many moons ago I had clutch mapped to A on the controller. I basically pressed X/A and B/A simultaneously to up shift and Downshift.

The exact same as what ACL is doing, so if anything it just brings wheel users up to the "cheating pad users" in a more realistic fashion.

I would like to know if it is quicker than shifting with a stick though. I suspect not as you get a bonus anyhow for using clutch.

Regardless of any of that, personally I would use it for immersion purposes only.
As I do with a stick shift if the car requires it.

Oh and Ali, don't turn this into a Forza/T10 bashing mate. I've read your stuff before.
Please respect the OP who wasn't voted for and therefor obliged to post here. He does so of his free will.

Thanks.

Damn tree'd

Serves me right for rambling.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

This is partially incorrect. The ACL was coded to help compete with the pad users, who pioneered this technique.



Thanks!

If it does perfect upshifts and downshifts, then it gives a big advantage to the wheels that will support it in the Fanatec line up if new firmware comes out also for other wheels. It means much better consistency and no gearbox damage when shifting in races. T10 method of forcing wheel users and pad users to use a clutch button to stay competitive seems a bit strange.

Wheel users could use a clutch button before to help shift faster so really it gives a bigger advantage to Fanatec wheel users over pad users. It is a good selling point though .

Jonboy I was wondering if you could test out if you can shift as quick using a clutch button either on the wheel or on a pad compared to you using ACL ghost.

Tried it have you?

Many moons ago I had clutch mapped to A on the controller. I basically pressed X/A and B/A simultaneously to up shift and Downshift.

The exact same as what ACL is doing, so if anything it just brings wheel users up to the "cheating pad users" in a more realistic fashion.

I would like to know if it is quicker than shifting with a stick though. I suspect not as you get a bonus anyhow for using clutch.

Regardless of any of that, personally I would use it for immersion purposes only.
As I do with a stick shift if the car requires it.

Oh and Ali, don't turn this into a Forza/T10 bashing mate. I've read your stuff before.
Please respect the OP who wasn't voted for and therefor obliged to post here. He does so of his free will.

Thanks.

Damn tree'd

Serves me right for rambling.

If you are on about clutch button on a pad then yes. It is hard to do perfect shifting and if damage is enabled then it is hard to do so without damage on a pad. I don't really have much experience though. I guess you could do a similar thing with special pads but that just splits fairness for majority of the userbase and that is why I don't really like an official product offering such a feature. T10 should make it so such a feature is not required to be competitive amongst the top drivers.

Wheel users could do clutch button shifting before so it adds a further advantage to wheel users. I would prefer it was all fair as in manual without clutch being the fastest way. I am intrigued to see what T10's stance will be on this as I am under the impression they don't like this kind of thing. I don't think I've ever turned a thread into Forza / T10 bashing so this will definately not turn into that .

Thanks to the OP with the review of the wheel so far 👍.

 

[jonboy1066]

Jonboy I was wondering if you could test out if you can shift as quick using a clutch button either on the wheel or on a pad compared to you using ACL ghost.

Yes you can, but like has already been said, you have to time it perfectly every time or risk damaging your engine ... ACL negates that chance of error and of course eventual damage

I am intrigued to see what T10's stance will be on this as I am under the impression they don't like this kind of thing.

I'd also be interested in what T10 and Polyphony's opinion is 'cos it works just as well in GT5

Opinions will vary but in my experience of driving many different cars over the last 20 years from small diesel hatchbacks to 16 Gear Trucks with Splitters and range changers that required doubledeeclutching as well as open wheel race cars and even a NASCAR arond Kentucky Speedway.

It's my personal opinion that clutch use cannot be replicated realistically in a game unless we can all get motion cockpits fitted with Buttkickers.

What they've done is force anyone who wants a chance to be competetive to either become finger gymnasts for button pressing or Ballet Dancers to get the pedals right, in FM4 and GT5 it's not really a clutch, it doesn't really behave like a real clutch would so I would rather see the games get rid of it altogether, but in the mean time I am happy to be using the ACL ability to flatshift effectively in FM4 and GT5 and hand it back to the controller gymnasts LOL

Thanks to the OP with the review of the wheel so far 👍.

You're welcome

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Yes you can, but like has already been said, you have to time it perfectly every time or risk damaging your engine ... ACL negates that chance of error and of course eventual damage






I'd also be interested in what T10 and Polyphony's opinion is 'cos it works just as well in GT5

Opinions will vary but in my experience of driving many different cars over the last 20 years from small diesel hatchbacks to 16 Gear Trucks with Splitters and range changers that required doubledeeclutching as well as open wheel race cars and even a NASCAR arond Kentucky Speedway.

It's my personal opinion that clutch use cannot be replicated realistically in a game unless we can all get motion cockpits fitted with Buttkickers.

What they've done is force anyone who wants a chance to be competetive to either become finger gymnasts for button pressing or Ballet Dancers to get the pedals right, in FM4 and GT5 it's not really a clutch, it doesn't really behave like a real clutch would so I would rather see the games get rid of it altogether, but in the mean time I am happy to be using the ACL ability to flatshift effectively in FM4 and GT5 and hand it back to the controller gymnasts LOL



You're welcome

GT5 as far as I know gives no advantage to using a clutch and controller users in general have a harder time in matching someone using a wheel. I think it is a bit unfair to give wheel users a bigger advantage over the average pad user. I sense T10 will do something about this, either make driving manual without clutch the fastest way or getting Fanatec to remove ACL.

 

[Spagetti69]

GT5 as far as I know gives no advantage to using a clutch and controller users in general have a harder time in matching someone using a wheel. I think it is a bit unfair to give wheel users a bigger advantage over the average pad user. I sense T10 will do something about this, either make driving manual without clutch the fastest way or getting Fanatec to remove ACL.

Average pad users have had an advantage for ages.
This just evens the playing field if anything.

And I sense that T10 won't do a thing about it if they have any sense.
How can you tell what people are using in a public or private lobby?

Public lobby's T10 allow people to use stability management or what ever it's called.

Try recovering from an unexpected hit when using a wheel with sim driving on.

Then go lock to lock on a pad in .1 of a second and tell me there's no pad advantage.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Average pad users have had an advantage for ages.
This just evens the playing field if anything.

And I sense that T10 won't do a thing about it if they have any sense.
How can you tell what people are using in a public or private lobby?

Public lobby's T10 allow people to use stability management or what ever it's called.

Try recovering from an unexpected hit when using a wheel with sim driving on.

Then go lock to lock on a pad in .1 of a second and tell me there's no pad advantage.

Pad users never had an advantage, wheel users can still use the clutch button while driving. This ACL gives perfect shifting and no damage, even the fastest pad users will struggle to do it as well as what people could do with ACL. It is handing Fanatec CSR Elite wheel users a big advantage over the competition in terms of consistency and speed.

This feature is on a Forza branded wheel. They can work things out with Fanatec or change stuff in their game. Considering the smoothness of using a steering wheel stopped wheel users getting credits due to cheat detection, T10 will probably go to lengths to try and make it more fair for the majority of the userbase.

Stability Management will only slow you down unless you are driving quite wildly.

I can only imagine it being hard due to it not being fully 1:1 yet but if it is anything like any other sim game like GT5 or any on PC, then it should be as manageable as a pad.

I do find it funny though, there are people with high end setups which have extreme precision and they feel disadvantaged to a pad user who does not have no way near the same level of precision. I admire how the top pad players can keep up with wheel users.

 

[jonboy1066]

Average pad users have had an advantage for ages.
This just evens the playing field if anything.

Pad users never had an advantage,

Guys, guys! .... Before my thread descends into another Pad vs Steering wheel thread which just like every other thread that's ever been created on the subject has never gone anywhere.

I would like to say this.

For some people the pad is faster, but for others the Wheel is faster, it's not the hardware ... it's what you're used to or what you've taken the time to get accustomed to ...


I would be terrible on a Pad because for the last 5 years I have only driven on a wheel ... however I know the last person to win our GamePOD Cup who recieved £1000 worth of GamePOD Seat actually chose to do the entire championship with a controller even though he prefers to use a wheel for fun.

His words:

"This prize was worth big money so I'm not going to use a peripheral that is slower ... the pad is faster so that's why I used it"

I have to say I agree with Spagetti, I think it does even out the field, but this thread could go on for many many pages saying

"Yes it does"

"No it doesn't"

And we'd never change anyones opinion.

Bottom line; ACL is here and could be coming to other Fanatec Wheels.

I doubt there's anything T10 could do via a patch to get rid of it and if they ask Thomas to make a FW to get rid of it, he'll hardly be able to go to everyone's houses and force us all to install it. So as far as I'm concerned the shoe is now on the other foot in the Pad vs Wheel Arms race and I like it.


Funny thing is, I'm also a member over on the Forza.net forums and have been posting my vids there too, yet there's been nothing said whatsoever about it, no outcry, no accusations and noone seems at all bothered by it ... yet here we are on a Gran Turismo Forum and it's causing controversy LOL

 

[PzR Slim]

Pad users never had an advantage, wheel users can still use the clutch button while driving. This ACL gives perfect shifting and no damage, even the fastest pad users will struggle to do it as well as what people could do with ACL. It is handing Fanatec CSR Elite wheel users a big advantage over the competition in terms of consistency and speed.

This feature is on a Forza branded wheel. They can work things out with Fanatec or change stuff in their game. Considering the smoothness of using a steering wheel stopped wheel users getting credits due to cheat detection, T10 will probably go to lengths to try and make it more fair for the majority of the userbase.

Stability Management will only slow you down unless you are driving quite wildly.

I can only imagine it being hard due to it not being fully 1:1 yet but if it is anything like any other sim game like GT5 or any on PC, then it should be as manageable as a pad.

I do find it funny though, there are people with high end setups which have extreme precision and they feel disadvantaged to a pad user who does not have no way near the same level of precision. I admire how the top pad players can keep up with wheel users.

And how are T10 going to combat all the people who have modded their pads to do the same? Not to mention pushing two buttons at once on either the pad or the wheel is very easy to do even without any modifications. And yes pad users don't have the same precision that's why they have a raft of aids applied to their inputs to smooth and better approximate them. Marry that with their ability to go from lock to lock in a nanosecond and I'm not sure they are doing too bad out of the deal.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Guys, guys! .... Before my thread descends into another Pad vs Steering wheel thread which just like every other thread that's ever been created on the subject has never gone anywhere.

I would like to say this.

For some people the pad is faster, but for others the Wheel is faster, it's not the hardware ... it's what you're used to or what you've taken the time to get accustomed to ...


I would be terrible on a Pad because for the last 5 years I have only driven on a wheel ... however I know the last person to win our GamePOD Cup who recieved £1000 worth of GamePOD Seat actually chose to do the entire championship with a controller even though he prefers to use a wheel for fun.

His words:

"This prize was worth big money so I'm not going to use a peripheral that is slower ... the pad is faster so that's why I used it"

I have to say I agree with Spagetti, I think it does even out the field, but this thread could go on for many many pages saying

"Yes it does"

"No it doesn't"

And we'd never change anyones opinion.

Bottom line; ACL is here and could be coming to other Fanatec Wheels.

I doubt there's anything T10 could do via a patch to get rid of it and if they ask Thomas to make a FW to get rid of it, he'll hardly be able to go to everyone's houses and force us all to install it. So as far as I'm concerned the shoe is now on the other foot in the Pad vs Wheel Arms race and I like it.


Funny thing is, I'm also a member over on the Forza.net forums and have been posting my vids there too, yet there's been nothing said whatsoever about it, no outcry, no accusations and noone seems at all bothered by it ... yet here we are on a Gran Turismo Forum and it's causing controversy LOL

I don’t want to turn into that so will try and keep my comments short on this.

It is down to hardware in terms of amount of potential there is to go fastest. However I agree it depends on the person, some people are much better on pads than they on a wheel and vice versa.
That is interesting to hear, I don’t fully know which is the fastest in Forza but I would guess wheel as my experience on the pad makes me feel I can’t do what I want to do.

It gives a perfect shifting option for CSR Elite users currently, this is not doable with any other wheel so far and also the official 360 standard gamepad.

The patch I think would be most logical to do is make it so that manual without clutch is the fastest.

I think controversy will only start when Top 10 times are being dominated by Fanatec users with ACL, until then there will be peace but is probably more the minority. Online racing will be affected but there are not many people who are going to have this function so it would not make much a difference for people who are not interested in pure consistent shifting speed.

And how are T10 going to combat all the people who have modded their pads to do the same? Not to mention pushing two buttons at once on either the pad or the wheel is very easy to do even without any modifications. And yes pad users don't have the same precision that's why they have a raft of aids applied to their inputs to smooth and better approximate them. Marry that with their ability to go from lock to lock in a nanosecond and I'm not sure they are doing too bad out of the deal.

Manual being the fastest is the option or made to be as fast as ACL. Wheel users can put it on 270 degrees and get all the pad aids but with more precision.

 

[PzR Slim]

It gives a perfect shifting option for CSR Elite users currently, this is not doable with any other wheel so far and also the official 360 standard gamepad.

Many people have modded their wheels and pads so that a press of the gear change button also includes a press of the clutch button. Keep up

Manual being the fastest is the option or made to be as fast as ACL. Wheel users can put it on 270 degrees and get all the pad aids but with more precision.

You can go lock to lock on a 270 wheel as quickly as someone with a thumbstick? And there are many more aids that smooth a pad users inputs compared to a 270 wheel.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

You can go lock to lock on a 270 wheel as quickly as someone with a thumbstick?

It is not much to turn and you should be able to do it faster and more accurately and considering if it is circuit driving I cannot see why many people would want to go lock to lock. It is not like it is instant lock to lock on a pad, if it was the game would be undrivable on a pad.

 

[PzR Slim]

It is not much to turn and you should be able to do it faster and more accurately and considering if it is circuit driving I cannot see why many people would want to go lock to lock. It is not like it is instant lock to lock on a pad, if it was the game would be undrivable on a pad.

But if you do go lock to lock in an instant the smoothing aids on the pad help a great deal in ensuring you get the correct countersteering angle. Once again you wax lyrical on a subject you show little knowledge of.