Kazunori Yamauchi Responds to Gran Turismo 7 Fan Outrage

[Scaff]

It's pretty obvious looking now at the game the reason they want it to be always online is so that they can readily control much of the game. The LCD and UCD data all comes from the PD servers, not your game disc. The "offline" events are all stored server side, probably a whole lot more.

GTS is much the same, and why a significant modification to the entire game will be required if they want to let you play it all offline when they make it EOL. It's not just a matter of flicking a switch and letting you access stuff. With no connection to PD servers, it's simply not there.

THAT is why you can't play the game when not connected, not for any cheating reason.

Oddly at least some of your save data is stored console side as well, as during the outage you could use (only in Time Trial) your garage cars, they certainly didn't make that obvious either.

 

[GBO Possum]

Oddly at least some of your save data is stored console side as well, as during the outage you could use (only in Time Trial) your garage cars, they certainly didn't make that obvious either.

At the time of the outage, I found I had about 480 megabytes of GT7 saved data on my PS4 Pro. While I only had maybe 70 cars, and no complex liveries, I had been taking photos, and to feed this habit, I had many saved replays. Clearly, not much of this data was saved server-side, but pretty much none of it was available for my use. Not even the photos.

 

[wheelhp]

At the time of the outage, I found I had about 480 megabytes of GT7 saved data on my PS4 Pro. While I only had maybe 70 cars, and no complex liveries, I had been taking photos, and to feed this habit, I had many saved replays. Clearly, not much of this data was saved server-side, but pretty much none of it was available for my use. Not even the photos.

What's interesting is GT Sport actually stored your scapes and replays not in save data but I think the game data? People would uninstall GT Sport and reinstall it only to find all the scapes and replays were gone, but your car liveries were stored in save data, thankfully.

 

[GBO Possum]

What's interesting is GT Sport actually stored your scapes and replays not in save data but I think the game data? People would uninstall GT Sport and reinstall it only to find all the scapes and replays were gone, but your car liveries were stored in save data, thankfully

I should really check the distinction between "save" data and "game" data. I think I have been sloppy in my choice of words. Thanks for the reminder

 

[kungtotte_]

Are you attempting to deliberately quote-mine me, or did you just not read my post?

I don't know what quote-mine is, the reason I used the @-feature instead of properly quoting your post was because I had started writing a quote reply to the other person first and I was on mobile, which is cumbersome. I read your post though, details to follow.

I didn't say all of the content, I said most of the content, so that would be the first claim you misattributed to me.

You did say this though:

A balanced economy, for both now and the future, would see players able to afford the majority of the content in game by completing the curated single player content in it's entirety.

Highlights are mine. So am I to understand that when you literally say that people should afford the majority of the content by completing all the singleplayer in its entirety you are in fact not intending to say that people should afford the majority of the content by completing all the singleplayer in its entirety, and I should somehow magically infer that you really intended to say something different? I admit I said "all" instead of "majority" or "most", but unless you're trying to pull a weaselly politician and claim that 51% is technically the majority I don't see how it's possible to take your post in any way other than to mean that fully completing the singleplayer content should be enough to pay for almost everything in the game.

Perhaps I am not the one who should be reading your posts more thoroughly?

I clearly said "players have to dupe some of the events, say half of them again.", so I clearly talked about repeating parts of the content, so that would be the second claim you misattributed to me.

I know what you said. You graciously offered that players would have to repeat half of the events, "if you really push it". Which is to say that you aren't really suggesting that people should have to do that but you do in fact still think that completing the content once should be enough. I know English isn't my first language and some of these things might be lost in translation but again I would have to say that perhaps you shouldn't be so quick to accuse other people of not reading your posts properly when it appears that even the person who wrote them isn't fully comprehending the content of them.

I also have no idea what on earth 'end game gameplay' is and appears to be an attempt to move the goalposts, unless you're talking about on-line and/or custom races (but they are not end-game), which I would have already covered by referring to most content (which you then changed). And as for not understanding game economies when it comes to racing titles, I beg to differ. This loop is not only quite common, but has been used in GT titles in the past!

"End game gameplay" is a term in common usage in the gaming world, and since this is a gaming related forum (albeit focused on racing) I felt safe enough in using the term without including a definition. That's my bad. It denotes the content and challenges you pursue after completing the singleplayer campaign, story, leveling up, unlocking of the content, etc. that is relevant for the game in question. So for an RPG it would be reaching the max level for example, in GT7 the analogue would be what happens after you complete the singleplayer content (café menus and license tests really, since the other parts aren't required to keep playing the game, but you could also extend it to missions, circuit experience, or even include all of the possible events and challenges besides those required by the menus). Whatever happens then would be the 'end game' experience of GT7.

The reason I included this reference to end games was to further illustrate my point about game economies, which is what I was talking about in the first place although I used the specific references of GT Sport and GT7. I never said "racing game economies" or "gran turismo economies", I very clearly said that GT sport had "poor game design" in regards to the economy. Game design in the general sense.

Again, accusing other people of not properly reading your posts is a bit rich considering that it very much appears that you didn't read my posts properly.

And I do still think that GT Sport's economy is fundamentally broken/unbalanced. The game heaped credits over you at every turn, and there was absolutely no sink at all except buying cars. Something which the game also provided you with liberally though with random results. So the only thing to spend credits on they give you one of every day, in addition to giving you tons of credits for everything you do. There was a brief period when I started playing the game where I had to save money up to buy cars I wanted, but after that I just bought whatever I wanted whenever I wanted with no hesitation at all. At which point you might as well dispense with the whole economy idea and just make everything available all the time because it essentially was. That's not a well functioning economy from a game design perspective.

GT7 has a much better concept and design principle around the economy with the income rate slowed down and additional sinks added where credits disappear, and while we have to wait for the additional content before rendering final judgement on it all, it does look much better from where I'm standing. I think that right now, with the current state of the game, the economy is much better designed than in GT Sport. No time travel necessary.

Any economy that requires you to "buckle down and grind" is fundamentally not well balanced.

I agree with you in general, although some games have core loops designed around this as a feature so those would be excepted here. I do however disagree that GT7 requires you to "buckle down and grind" as you put it, except in the unique case of unicorns.

 

[wheelhp]

I should really check the distinction between "save" data and "game" data. I think I have been sloppy in my choice of words. Thanks for the reminder

Not sloppy at all friend I don't know much about GT 7 since it's too early to say, can only be allowed to say what I've played with the GT Sport

 

[whizzbang66]

why does it take 30 seconds to get to pit on laguna seca, you put 2 laps of fuel in and race leaders already been in pits lap before and i was behind them they still in front 🤔 you cant change power/lean in pits or look at weather etc a bit poor dont ya think, if you didn't have AI cars suddenly jumping on brakes for no reason but to slow you or them railroading you on bends

 

[Scaff]

I don't know what quote-mine is, the reason I used the @-feature instead of properly quoting your post was because I had started writing a quote reply to the other person first and I was on mobile, which is cumbersome. I read your post though, details to follow.

You did say this though:

Highlights are mine. So am I to understand that when you literally say that people should afford the majority of the content by completing all the singleplayer in its entirety you are in fact not intending to say that people should afford the majority of the content by completing all the singleplayer in its entirety, and I should somehow magically infer that you really intended to say something different? I admit I said "all" instead of "majority" or "most", but unless you're trying to pull a weaselly politician and claim that 51% is technically the majority I don't see how it's possible to take your post in any way other than to mean that fully completing the singleplayer content should be enough to pay for almost everything in the game.

Perhaps I am not the one who should be reading your posts more thoroughly?

I know what you said. You graciously offered that players would have to repeat half of the events, "if you really push it". Which is to say that you aren't really suggesting that people should have to do that but you do in fact still think that completing the content once should be enough. I know English isn't my first language and some of these things might be lost in translation but again I would have to say that perhaps you shouldn't be so quick to accuse other people of not reading your posts properly when it appears that even the person who wrote them isn't fully comprehending the content of them.

All is not the same as most or majority, and is never going to be, and you quoted a quarter of my paragraph on the subject, taking it out context?

Quote-mining, for the record, is exactly what you've just done, it's when you remove a part of what someone said in order to present back a deliberately deceptive version of it, it's a deliberate deception that the AUP is quite clear isn't acceptable.

I know exactly what I said, and you misquoted me twice, don't do it again! while you are at it, you can also stop with the personal digs, again the AUP is quite clear on these.

"End game gameplay" is a term in common usage in the gaming world, and since this is a gaming related forum (albeit focused on racing) I felt safe enough in using the term without including a definition. That's my bad. It denotes the content and challenges you pursue after completing the singleplayer campaign, story, leveling up, unlocking of the content, etc. that is relevant for the game in question. So for an RPG it would be reaching the max level for example, in GT7 the analogue would be what happens after you complete the singleplayer content (café menus and license tests really, since the other parts aren't required to keep playing the game, but you could also extend it to missions, circuit experience, or even include all of the possible events and challenges besides those required by the menus). Whatever happens then would be the 'end game' experience of GT7.

So as I asked, you are referring to custom races and Sport mode, neither of which are actually end game (both are unlocked early in the Cafe Menus) and used alone would actually significantly increase teh grind required given that the payouts for them is significantly lower than comparable curated events.

Again, accusing other people of not properly reading your posts is a bit rich considering that it very much appears that you didn't read my posts properly.

You didn't define it in regard to GT7, as you acknowledge, so I can't read something that you didn't write.

And I do still think that GT Sport's economy is fundamentally broken/unbalanced. The game heaped credits over you at every turn, and there was absolutely no sink at all except buying cars. Something which the game also provided you with liberally though with random results. So the only thing to spend credits on they give you one of every day, in addition to giving you tons of credits for everything you do. There was a brief period when I started playing the game where I had to save money up to buy cars I wanted, but after that I just bought whatever I wanted whenever I wanted with no hesitation at all. At which point you might as well dispense with the whole economy idea and just make everything available all the time because it essentially was. That's not a well functioning economy from a game design perspective.

GT7 has a much better concept and design principle around the economy with the income rate slowed down and additional sinks added where credits disappear, and while we have to wait for the additional content before rendering final judgement on it all, it does look much better from where I'm standing. I think that right now, with the current state of the game, the economy is much better designed than in GT Sport. No time travel necessary.

Objective analysis we've published here at GT Planet shows that's not the case at all, in fact it has the worst economy of any GT title published.

I agree with you in general, although some games have core loops designed around this as a feature so those would be excepted here. I do however disagree that GT7 requires you to "buckle down and grind" as you put it, except in the unique case of unicorns.

If you need to add in qualifies it really does undermine the claim, but once again an objective analysis of the economy shows this isn't an accurate claim to start with. Playing multiple hours a day and doing nothing but grinding would require over five years to earn enough funds for all the cars in the title, and that's with buying modifications, etc.

Exactly how long do you think, in hours, would be reasonable to unlock all of the cars in GT7?

 

[Dave A]

A balanced economy, for both now and the future, would see players able to afford the majority of the content in game by completing the curated single player content in it's entirety.

Nail on the head.

Whether other games do it to what extent or not, it's bad game design to force players to repeat the same races (content) over and over again after they have already passed that part of the game.

Of course, some repetition is expected, but the issues with GT7's economy are twofold, firstly the prize winnings relative to the cost of the more expensive cars is not well balanced at all. Secondly there are just simply not enough events to complete in before you start grinding.

The grind for the more expensive cars could be alleviated by either making them cost less, providing more places to race so you aren't repeating the same content as much, increasing prize Cr or any combination of the three.

I think a combination of two of those things would probably go a long way to making the grind bearable, the problem is those things need big tweaks to balance right.

There are fewer races than every GT game form GT2 onwards and the Prize Cr are the stingiest in the entire series from what I can gather. It's a terrible combination, and that's before you throw the MTX's in there and the repteated promotion of them "you actually can afford this timed availability car if you buy these credits".

The whole thing has clearly been designed to encourage certain players towards MTX's, and it's backfired, the only metric anyone needs to look at to understand the ingame economy in GT7 is broken is the metacritic score. Reading through those reviews let's you into the reason for those scores and the primary trigger was the reducion of prize Cr in that prevous update.

Some people might enjoy the grind, but they shouldn't kid themselves that it's good game design just beucase it's still enjoyable for a minority. Enough players have said it isn't, to such an extent PD have had to address thier complaints and are for all intents and purposes working to retify the sitution in future updates. Whether they rectify it satisfactorily or not remians to be seen, but the fact enough people have spoken in agreement over these issues speaks volumes.

 

[kungtotte_]

Quote-mining, for the record, is exactly what you've just done, it's when you remove a part of what someone said in order to present back a deliberately deceptive version of it, it's a deliberate deception that the AUP is quite clear isn't acceptable.

Thanks for the definition, I wasn't aware that's what it was called. I am posting in this manner with quotes trimmed because it adheres to commenting etiquette on the internet as a whole, where it is customary to trim quotes and replies down to relevant sections in order to prevent ever expanding quote-blocks, and not in an attempt to misrepresent anything or anyone.

I know exactly what I said, and you misquoted me twice, don't do it again! while you are at it, you can also stop with the personal digs, again the AUP is quite clear on these.

I am opening up a completely separate line of discussion now so please don't accuse me of quote-mining you. Am I to understand that you are free to accuse me of any number of things, but I am not allowed to accuse you of the same things on the same grounds because in that case it constitutes 'personal digs'?

If moderators are exempt from following the AUP I think in the interest of clarity there should be some form of notice of such so that we as users of the forum don't get mixed up.

 

[Scaff]

Thanks for the definition, I wasn't aware that's what it was called. I am posting in this manner with quotes trimmed because it adheres to commenting etiquette on the internet as a whole, where it is customary to trim quotes and replies down to relevant sections in order to prevent ever expanding quote-blocks, and not in an attempt to misrepresent anything or anyone.

Good etiquette is not to do it to the degree that it removes context, and changing a word completely has nothing to do with 'quote trimming', and Intent doesn't change the outcome, now I will ask again.

Exactly how long do you think, in hours of normal gameplay, would be reasonable to unlock all of the cars in GT7?

I am opening up a completely separate line of discussion now so please don't accuse me of quote-mining you. Am I to understand that you are free to accuse me of any number of things, but I am not allowed to accuse you of the same things on the same grounds because in that case it constitutes 'personal digs'?

If moderators are exempt from following the AUP I think in the interest of clarity there should be some form of notice of such so that we as users of the forum don't get mixed up.

I've not quote-mined you, nor have I made any personal digs at you, however if you feel I have done, then feel free to use the report button.

 

[kungtotte_]

I've not quote-mined you, nor have I made any personal digs at you, however if you feel I have done, then feel free to use the report button.

I am deliberately not answering your questions about this game at this time until the issue regarding forum rules is resolved, because I am wary of violating your interpretation of the written rules with some infraction that I cannot possibly foresee.

And based on the tone and content of your last reply I am of the belief that we will reach no resolution on this manner.

I am concerned that more unwritten rules or special interpretation of the written rules will come into effect were I to engage in any form of discussion on this matter, because materially we both engaged in identical behaviour in these past few posts and even verbatim accused each other of committing the same mistake yet only I am being cautioned to follow the AUP.

Curious that.

 

[Scaff]

I am deliberately not answering your questions about this game at this time until the issue regarding forum rules is resolved, because I am wary of violating your interpretation of the written rules with some infraction that I cannot possibly foresee.

And based on the tone and content of your last reply I am of the belief that we will reach no resolution on this manner.

I am concerned that more unwritten rules or special interpretation of the written rules will come into effect were I to engage in any form of discussion on this matter, because materially we both engaged in identical behaviour in these past few posts and even verbatim accused each other of committing the same mistake yet only I am being cautioned to follow the AUP.

Curious that.

The AUP applies to all members and staff, and if you feel any post, but anyone breaks the AUP, then feel free to report it.

That is the end of the discussion on the subject.

Now. Exactly how long do you think, in hours of normal gameplay, would be reasonable to unlock all of the cars in GT7?

 

[incredirog]

I’m just gonna weigh in on the how many hours til all cars question despite not being involved in the overall skirmish and say that the availability schedule of the cars is irrelevant BUT when a car becomes available an average player should have the means to generate the money to attain it within its window of availability without excessive repeat play or MTX.

 

[Supaboost]

GT7 has a much better concept and design principle around the economy with the income rate slowed down and additional sinks added where credits disappear, and while we have to wait for the additional content before rendering final judgement on it all, it does look much better from where I'm standing. I think that right now, with the current state of the game, the economy is much better designed than in GT Sport. No time travel necessary.

Dude If GT7 economy was better, why all the fuss. Why did the fanbase riot against such a "better designed economy" yet didnt at Sports ? Right now as is, Its a basic mathematical FACT that GT7 has a far worse economy then Sport . https://www.gtplanet.net/gt7-latest-update-has-outraged-fans-20220317/

But I command you on the copious amount of bs you can typo defending one of the worst game economies ever, sans MMo's i cant think of anything worse.

 

[Grimm6Jack]

People still defending the economy of GT7? Where the hell do these guys come from?

Why do they try to enforce that their way of playing the game (as in, play it as your only game in the library and for 5-10 years) is fine?

You people need a reality check.

 

[kungtotte_]

Dude If GT7 economy was better, why all the fuss. Why did the fanbase riot against such a "better designed economy" yet didnt at Sports ?

People are irrationally upset all the time, gamers even more so. I suspect there would be a sizeable contingent of people who would be as upset with the economy of the game if the difference was as large but in the other direction, just because it was different. Sometimes people are more upset about changes themselves rather than the details of the changes.

Right now as is, Its a basic mathematical FACT that GT7 has a far worse economy then Sport . https://www.gtplanet.net/gt7-latest-update-has-outraged-fans-20220317/

I think it's important to distinguish the economy, which includes everything from how fast you earn in game currency to how much things cost and how many things you can spend that currency on, from income rates alone. I never said GT7 had higher income rates than any other title, it clearly doesn't. I said GT7 had a better economy than GT Sport meaning the sum total of everything.

I am also not including any other GT title than those two in this comparison, because I didn't play 5 or 6 and it was almost 20 years ago that I played GT4 so I honestly can't remember what it was like. It's possible or even likely that their economies were better than GT7.

 

[O604]

People still defending the economy of GT7? Where the hell do these guys come from?

Why do they try to enforce that their way of playing the game (as in, play it as your only game in the library and for 5-10 years) is fine?

You people need a reality check.

Reality check. Virtual cars in a virtual economy.

No one is defending the economy. They are critical of the overreaction by some over virtual cars in a virtual economy.

The majority of people ignore the noise and just play.

 

[Dave A]

People are irrationally upset all the time, gamers even more so.

Do you have a source for that? I don't know anyone who is irrationally upset all the time, gamers or otherwise.

I suspect there would be a sizeable contingent of people who would be as upset with the economy of the game if the difference was as large but in the other direction, just because it was different. Sometimes people are more upset about changes themselves rather than the details of the changes.

And what is your expeirence on the matter of psychology? Genuine question as your answer either adds weight or takes it awy from your statements. I dissagree, the economy in GT2 for example was very weighted the other way once you got to the late game races. 5 laps of a fast track and you oculd have 550,000Cr in about 6 mins (maybe less). I don't recall epople complaining.

That's not to say I don't agree with the notion it can go too far the other way, but there is no real argument to say GT7's isn't broken when the sheer number of people in agreement that it is broken confirm otherwise. Of course, there is an element of personal preference involved, but on these matters the majority tend to take the vote and every poll and customer ratings and reviews reflect the position.

Whatever you suspect, if you don't have anything to support that it's meerly conjecture, whereas we can actually see what the majority opinion is.

I think it's important to distinguish the economy, which includes everything from how fast you earn in game currency to how much things cost and how many things you can spend that currency on, from income rates alone. I never said GT7 had higher income rates than any other title, it clearly doesn't. I said GT7 had a better economy than GT Sport meaning the sum total of everything.

I definitely agree you have to take everything into account, prize Cr, cost of cars, sale value of cars etc. But I would dissagree that GT7's economy is better than GT Sports (though I hated GT Sports). In GT Sport you could earn enough to purchase the most expensive cars faster than you can in GT7 and you can't sell your cars in GT7. That's a fact. So you're welcome to your opinion on that, that's yours, but based on what you've said above I'm not sure what it's based on (though apologies if I've mised it earlier in this thread).

I am also not including any other GT title than those two in this comparison, because I didn't play 5 or 6 and it was almost 20 years ago that I played GT4 so I honestly can't remember what it was like. It's possible or even likely that their economies were better than GT7.

GT4's was almost perfect IMO, a delight to play through and you could earn more Cr per hour than GT7 and the most expensive cars were 4.5m Cr. So a far cry from the economy in GT7.

 

[Matt atkins]

When are new tracks and new cars coming and a new update

 

[watto79]

When are new tracks and new cars coming and a new update

Between now and the end of April

 

[Supaboost]

People are irrationally upset all the time, gamers even more so. I suspect there would be a sizeable contingent of people who would be as upset with the economy of the game if the difference was as large but in the other direction, just because it was different. Sometimes people are more upset about changes themselves rather than the details of the changes.

I think it's important to distinguish the economy, which includes everything from how fast you earn in game currency to how much things cost and how many things you can spend that currency on, from income rates alone. I never said GT7 had higher income rates than any other title, it clearly doesn't. I said GT7 had a better economy than GT Sport meaning the sum total of everything.

I am also not including any other GT title than those two in this comparison, because I didn't play 5 or 6 and it was almost 20 years ago that I played GT4 so I honestly can't remember what it was like. It's possible or even likely that their economies were better than GT7.

Cut the blatent bs, there would be no sizeable anything upset they can grind enough credits in an hour and afford a LA Ferrari and all the accesories tires ex.

 

[RacingGrandpa]

I am stepping out of reading not posting to say that a comparison between GTS and GT7 economy wise is not fair to anyone, players or developer. GTS was focused on online e-sport and the economy was meant to make it possible for everyone to quickly be able to race any race at any time.
GT7 is a single player focused game where the economy is geared towards that.

 

[regnar]

When are new tracks and new cars coming and a new update

Some time before the end of the month

 

[Supaboost]

I am stepping out of reading not posting to say that a comparison between GTS and GT7 economy wise is not fair to anyone, players or developer. GTS was focused on online e-sport and the economy was meant to make it possible for everyone to quickly be able to race any race at any time.
GT7 is a single player focused game where the economy is geared towards that.

GT7 is a live service always online game per the developer.

- with an blatently obvious economy geared toward mtx.

 

[Matt atkins]

Some time before the end of the month
View attachment 1132220

Okay thank you

 

[kungtotte_]

Do you have a source for that? I don't know anyone who is irrationally upset all the time, gamers or otherwise.

I don't have a primary source, no. In case it was unclear I meant that people collectively get irrationally upset about different things all of the time, not that any one individual was consistently irrationally upset about everything. I don't think you have to go very far on the internet (anywhere on the internet) to find a group of people irrationally upset about something or other, and I'm sure you're aware of this too.

And what is your expeirence on the matter of psychology? Genuine question as your answer either adds weight or takes it awy from your statements.

Only a layman's experience of reading some books, articles, listening to some podcasts and such.

I dissagree, the economy in GT2 for example was very weighted the other way once you got to the late game races. 5 laps of a fast track and you oculd have 550,000Cr in about 6 mins (maybe less). I don't recall epople complaining.

On the one hand I won't comment on the specifics of the GT2 economy because it was even longer since I played that than I played GT4, which as I said was almost 20 years ago, but I will say that when I was playing GT2 the only people I ever talked to about it was my friends in school and after school when we went home to each other to play it in split screen multiplayer. I didn't even have an internet connection at home during that time so I had no way of interacting with the fanbase at large. Hence it's hard to say what the general consensus was back then.

That's not to say I don't agree with the notion it can go too far the other way, but there is no real argument to say GT7's isn't broken when the sheer number of people in agreement that it is broken confirm otherwise. Of course, there is an element of personal preference involved, but on these matters the majority tend to take the vote and every poll and customer ratings and reviews reflect the position.

The point I was making there wasn't really tied to the actual economy of either game, it was about the fact that gamers tend to get upset about changes in games simply because the game changes at all. Again I am speaking about the collective noun here, not about any one particular gamer. Any discussion forum or chat or twitter thread or what have you is chock full of people upset that something has changed, it's not hard to find. In either case argument from authority isn't always a persuasive counter argument when it comes to negative emotions, as people who are upset are more likely to make their opinion heard than people who are content.

Whatever you suspect, if you don't have anything to support that it's meerly conjecture, whereas we can actually see what the majority opinion is.

Yes, which is why that section is not worded in absolutes and is prefixed with the statement "I suspect". As I pointed out in the paragraph above this though, we don't really really know what the majority opinion is. We know what the majority opinion of those who speak up is, which is rarely even a statistically representative sample of the total population.

I definitely agree you have to take everything into account, prize Cr, cost of cars, sale value of cars etc. But I would dissagree that GT7's economy is better than GT Sports (though I hated GT Sports).

That's fair, I've not twisted anyone's arm to agree with me and we're all entitled to our own opinions.

In GT Sport you could earn enough to purchase the most expensive cars faster than you can in GT7 and you can't sell your cars in GT7. That's a fact.

A fact which I've never disputed at all and have in fact a few times stated myself, so we're in full agreement on this one.

So you're welcome to your opinion on that, that's yours, but based on what you've said above I'm not sure what it's based on (though apologies if I've mised it earlier in this thread).

I haven't thoroughly explained my take on the economy so you haven't missed it, it wasn't even there

In games the economy exists as an integral part of the game design; it's there to create a sense of achievement and progress, to drive the gameplay forward, and to instill a sense of value in what is at the end of the day just visual representations of make-believe things. So a good and functioning economy would achieve most of those objectives, and a bad or broken economy would fail to meet most of those objectives.

In GT Sport it's incredibly easy to earn credits, so much so that you don't have to think about earning them at all, they just kind of appear when playing the game. There's also nothing to spend credits on besides cars so unless you are buying cars your credits just pile up. Cars which you might also win in the daily lottery that is guaranteed to give you a car every time you fulfill the mileage. Most of the time it's gonna be a Sambabus or yet another road car you don't want, but you might actually win the car you actually want to buy.

This means that you don't get any sense of achievement or progress because things are just handed to you on a plate (even when buying cars with credits, those credits just fell into your lap pretty much), you didn't have to put in any effort for it. And since you didn't put any effort into it, you also don't get any sense of value attached to the virtual car you just bought, you just decided what you wanted and clicked "buy" and that's that.

Another thing that is somewhat separate from the economy that influences this is how many cars you drive in GTS that just aren't yours. You can only drive the Manufacturer cars in the Manu series, and you can use them for dailies as well, but when the series ends and you sign with a new Manu those cars disappear. So you weren't really racing your imaginary Corvette C7, you were racing a imaginary Corvette C7. This is another thing I think GT 7 does better! But I digress as this isn't technically part of the economy.

In GT 7 on the other hand it takes more effort to earn credits, cars are broadly the same price as in GTS with some variations, so it takes longer to earn enough to buy something you want. But this fulfills the objectives I outlined above about you feeling a sense of achievement and progress, and you value your Corvette C7 because you can race that same car in every race and it's gonna be your Corvette the whole time, that you bought for money you feel like you earned.

So yes I do think that GT 7 has a better designed economy from a game design perspective. I fully agree that it's terrible if you want to be able to buy all/most cars very quickly.

I am also assuming that PD will actually do what they said they would do in the coming updates, with adding more events with better payouts, and also increasing sport mode payouts which I have said a few times in here are way too low. Winning against 19 humans is much harder than winning against 19 AI, so payouts should accurately reflect the increased level of effort there.

I have every belief that PD will do what they said they will, and I am fairly sure it will be good enough, but who knows?

GT4's was almost perfect IMO, a delight to play through and you could earn more Cr per hour than GT7 and the most expensive cars were 4.5m Cr. So a far cry from the economy in GT7.

I'll take your word for it because as I said, memory is hazy that far back.

 

[mynameis66]

Nobody wants to buy all/most of the cars quickly,people want to be able to buy there dream cars within a reasonable time.What is reasonable is down to each individual but i work full time,have a familly so dont have limitless time to grind over and over just to be able to afford a high end car.
I wont be grinding for 6 months just to buy a mclaren F1,unless some serious balance to the economy is added i will probably have moved on to something else,maybe come back to GT7 later on.Ive bought every GT from the start,i can still remember waiting for Electronics Boutique to open for my copy,and i really do enjoy the current game but some of Kaz/PD decisions in this game baffle me totally.
There was no real or logical reason to reduce credit payouts except to push MTX,that letter from kaz doesnt fool anybody especially the bit `I want to make GT7 a game in which you can enjoy a variety of cars lots of different ways, and if possible would like to try to avoid a situation where a player must mechanically keep replaying certain events over and over again.`What are we supposed to do?
Chase the rabbit races,not being able to hotlap against a saved ghost from a previous fast lap,missing content or lack of content after finishing the menus,the engine swap lottery.What were they thinking.lol.So many things which dont need or need to be in the game,im sure there are more,everybody has there own take on it.
Not getting into an argument with anyone its just my opinion from a lifelong GT enthusiast.Im too old to be called a Fan.😆

 

[Lomic]

I mean, that’s the kind of real life link to classic supercar prices that Mr. Kaz wants right?

I suspect it will be a double standard rule :

• when it will be time to buy a car, it will be very realistic, adjusted in real time to real world value and all.
• when you will wan't to sell you luxury car which value doubled in the real world, there will be no more link with real world, just a dumb rule like "30% of the value you paid" (not 30% of the current value mind you)

Realism is pushed forward only when it serves PD/Sony's purpose to sell MTX.

 

[RichiPuppy]

I am deliberately not answering your questions about this game at this time until the issue regarding forum rules is resolved, because I am wary of violating your interpretation of the written rules with some infraction that I cannot possibly foresee.

And based on the tone and content of your last reply I am of the belief that we will reach no resolution on this manner.

I am concerned that more unwritten rules or special interpretation of the written rules will come into effect were I to engage in any form of discussion on this matter, because materially we both engaged in identical behaviour in these past few posts and even verbatim accused each other of committing the same mistake yet only I am being cautioned to follow the AUP.

Curious that.

I like how you will not answer a very simple question because of some lame excuse, but have no problem throwing mud at anyone who disagrees with you. Pretty sad.