Laguna Seca 200 Miles Companion & Competition

Discussion in 'GT5 Race Reports' started by axletramp, Apr 5, 2012.

  1. axletramp

    axletramp Premium

    Messages:
    18,883
    Location:
    Jersey
    [​IMG]

    Location: Salinas, California, USA
    Total Laps: 90
    Track Length: 2.24 miles
    Longest Straight: 897.6 feet
    Elevation Difference: 180.4 feet
    Total Race Distance: 201.44 miles
    Start Type: Rolling Start - Double File
    Credits (@100%): 1st 209,000 / 2nd 99,000 / 3rd 70,000 / 4th 58,000 / 5th 46,000 / 6th 35,000
    Exp (@100%): 411,003

    Welcome to the Laguna Seca 200 Miles (A-Spec) Companion & Competition. This has been set up in a similar vein to the Nürburgring 4Hr and Grand Valley 300Km threads as a place to record your experiences at the A-Spec Laguna Seca 200 Miles endurance race and hopefully become a useful reference tool for players of any skill level wishing to make this challenge more enjoyable. Race reports of any length are welcome but bear in mind that greater detail and accuracy will lead to a more enjoyable and informative read. Please feel free to PM me should you notice any inaccuracies or omissions.

    As ever, there are a set of leaderboards regularly updated on this first post so you can compare your runs with other endurance fans. Please read and follow the simple rules below so that your run can be ranked correctly.

    Rules
    1. Tyres must be Sport Soft or lower (no racing tyres).
    2. Race Cars and Race Modified cars are discouraged and will only be included on the leaderboards at my discretion.
    3. Please try and keep it as clean as possible as any dirty tactics (driving the AI off the road, ramming, deliberate pitting, excessive blocking, etc) are also discouraged.
    4. Power limiter shall be set no lower than 85%.
    5. Concept cars must run against the 'rabbits' to be ranked.
    6. 'Stock' means no upgraded parts, no ballast and P/L at 100%. Oil change and car wash are allowed, as are any tyres from CH to SS.

    Known 'Rabbits'
    Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (C5) '04
    Chevrolet Camaro SS '10

    Sport Soft Tire Leaderboard- Ranked by PPV
    361PP - Hommel Berlinette R/S Coupe '99 - von Stiefel•
    362PP - Lotus Elise 111S '03 - Dotini•
    373PP - Lotus Elise '96 - axletramp•
    379PP - Mitsubishi Mirage Cyborg ZR '97 - von Stiefel•
    384PP - Toyota GT 86 '12 - Dotini
    390PP - BMW 2002 Turbo ’73 - axletramp
    395PP - Subaru BRZ S '12 - Dotini•
    397PP - Audi S3 '02 - elrousso•
    399PP - Toyota GT 86 '12 - Dotini
    402PP - Ford RS200 '84 - Dotini
    405PP - Lotus Elise '96 - axletramp•
    406PP - Subaru BRZ S '12 - Dotini•
    409PP - Subaru BRZ S '12 - Dotini•
    417PP - BMW Z4 '03 - axletramp
    418PP - Lotus Elise 111R '04 - Dotini
    423PP - MUGEN S2000 '00 - axletramp
    PP N/A - VW Sambabus Type2 (T1) '62 - fjdutoit•

    Sport Medium Tire Leaderboard - Ranked by PPV
    399PP - Lotus Elise 111S '03 - Dotini•
    400PP - Honda Civic Type-R (EK) '97 - axletramp#/**
    415PP - Ford Focus ST '06 - axletramp•/#
    417PP - DMC DeLorean S2 '04 - Marty McFly aka axletramp•/#/**
    440PP - Mustang V8 GT Coupe Premium '07 - axletramp•/#
    440PP - Mustang V8 GT Coupe Premium '07 - axletramp•

    Sport Hard Tire Leaderboard - Ranked by PPV
    393PP - Subaru BRZ S '12 - von Siefel•
    407PP - Honda NSX Type S Zero '97 - GTsail290•
    410PP - Honda NSX Type S Zero '97 - GTsail290•
    413PP - Honda NSX Type S Zero '97 - GTsail290•
    414PP - Toyota 86 GT '12 - GTsail290•
    416PP - Honda NSX Type S Zero '97 - GTsail290•
    420PP - MX-5 1600 NR-A - HenryT•/#
    422PP - Honda Integra Type R DC5 '04 - GTsail290
    422PP - Honda Civic Type R (EP) '01 - GTsail290•
    424PP - Honda Integra Type R DC5 '04 - GTsail290
    430PP - Ford RS200 '84 - Dotini•
    431PP - Holden Monaro CV8 '04 - GTsail290•
    435PP - Subaru Impreza Sedan WRX STi Version '00 - GTsail290•
    437PP - Holden Monaro CV8 '04 - GTsail290•
    438PP - Mazda efini RX-7 Type RZ (FD) '96 - GTsail290
    440PP - BMW 135i Coupe '07 - GTsail290•/#
    440PP - Holden Monaro CV8 '04 - GTsail290•
    440PP - Subaru Impreza Sedan WRX STI Version '00 - GTsail290
    446PP - Camaro Z28 '69 - GTsail290•/#
    451PP - Corvette Convertible (C3) '69 - GTsail290•/#/**
    502PP - Camaro Z28 '69 - fjdutoit•/#
    531PP - Acura DNX Concept - Whodoyouthink•/#

    Comfort Soft Tire Leaderboard - Ranked by PPV
    421PP - Lotus Elise 111R '04 - Dotini•
    425PP - Hommel Berlinette R/S Coupe '99 - von Stiefel•
    443PP - Peugeot 205 Turbo 16 '85 - Dotini•
    453PP - RUF 3400S '00 - GTsail290•
    455PP - Subaru Impreza Sedan WRX STI spec C Type RA '05 - Dotini•
    459PP - BMW 135i Coupé '07 - yanaran•

    FF Drivetrain Leaderboard - Ranked by PPV
    379PP - Mitsubishi Mirage Cyborg ZR '97 - von Stiefel•
    400PP - Honda Civic Type-R (EK) '97 - axletramp#/**
    415PP - Ford Focus ST '06 - axletramp•/#
    422PP - Honda Integra Type R DC5 '04 - GTsail290
    422PP - Honda Civic Type R (EP) '01 - GTsail290•
    424PP - Honda Integra Type R DC5 '04 - GTsail290

    FR Drivetrain Leaderboard - Ranked by PPV
    384PP - Toyota GT 86 '12 - Dotini
    390PP - BMW 2002 Turbo ’73 - axletramp
    393PP - Subaru BRZ S '12 - von Siefel•
    395PP - Subaru BRZ S '12 - Dotini•
    399PP - Toyota GT 86 '12 - Dotini
    406PP - Subaru BRZ S '12 - Dotini•
    409PP - Subaru BRZ S '12 - Dotini•
    414PP - Toyota 86 GT '12 - GTsail290•
    417PP - BMW Z4 '03 - axletramp
    420PP - MX-5 1600 NR-A - HenryT•/#
    423PP - MUGEN S2000 '00 - axletramp
    431PP - Holden Monaro CV8 '04 - GTsail290•
    437PP - Holden Monaro CV8 '04 - GTsail290•
    438PP - Mazda efini RX-7 Type RZ (FD) '96 - GTsail290
    440PP - BMW 135i Coupe '07 - GTsail290•/#
    440PP - Mustang V8 GT Coupe Premium '07 - axletramp•/#
    440PP - Mustang V8 GT Coupe Premium '07 - axletramp•
    440PP - Holden Monaro CV8 '04 - GTsail290•
    446PP - Camaro Z28 '69 - GTsail290•/#
    451PP - Corvette Convertible (C3) '69 - GTsail290•/#/**
    459PP - BMW 135i Coupé '07 - yanaran•
    502PP - Camaro Z28 '69 - fjdutoit•/#

    MR Drivetrain Leaderboard - Ranked by PPV
    361PP - Hommel Berlinette R/S Coupe '99 - von Stiefel•
    362PP - Lotus Elise 111S '03 - Dotini•
    373PP - Lotus Elise '96 - axletramp•
    399PP - Lotus Elise 111S '03 - Dotini•
    405PP - Lotus Elise '96 - axletramp•
    407PP - Honda NSX Type S Zero '97 - GTsail290•
    410PP - Honda NSX Type S Zero '97 - GTsail290•
    413PP - Honda NSX Type S Zero '97 - GTsail290•
    416PP - Honda NSX Type S Zero '97 - GTsail290•
    418PP - Lotus Elise 111R '04 - Dotini
    421PP - Lotus Elise 111R '04 - Dotini•
    425PP - Hommel Berlinette R/S Coupe '99 - von Stiefel•
    453PP - RUF 3400S '00 - GTsail290•

    RR Drivetrain Leaderboard - Ranked by PPV
    417PP - DMC DeLorean S2 '04 - Marty McFly aka axletramp•/#/**
    PP N/A - VW Sambabus Type2 (T1) '62 - fjdutoit•

    4WD Drivetrain Leaderboard - Ranked by PPV
    397PP - Audi S3 '02 - elrousso•
    402PP - Ford RS200 '84 - Dotini
    430PP - Ford RS200 '84 - Dotini•
    435PP - Subaru Impreza Sedan WRX STi Version '00 - GTsail290•
    440PP - Subaru Impreza Sedan WRX STI Version '00 - GTsail290
    443PP - Peugeot 205 Turbo 16 '85 - Dotini•
    455PP - Subaru Impreza Sedan WRX STI spec C Type RA '05 - Dotini•
    531PP - Acura DNX Concept - Whodoyouthink•/#

    Stock - SS Tire Leaderboard - Ranked by PPV
    395PP - Subaru BRZ S '12 - Dotini•
    397PP - Audi S3 '02 - elrousso•
    409PP - Subaru BRZ S '12 - Dotini•
    417PP - BMW Z4 '03 - axletramp
    423PP - MUGEN S2000 '00 - axletramp

    Stock - SM Tire Leaderboard - Ranked by PPV
    406PP - Subaru BRZ S '12 - Dotini•
    415PP - Ford Focus ST '06 - axletramp•/#

    Stock - SH Tire Leaderboard - Ranked by PPV
    430PP - Ford RS200 '84 - Dotini•
    446PP - Camaro Z28 '69 - GTsail290•/#
    451PP - Corvette Convertible (C3) '69 - GTsail290•/#/**
    531PP - Acura DNX Concept - Whodoyouthink•/#

    Stock - CS Tire Leaderboard - Ranked by PPV
    455PP - Subaru Impreza Sedan WRX STI spec C Type RA '05 - Dotini•
    459PP - BMW 135i Coupé '07 - yanaran•

    Update v2.10 - Ranked by PPV
    332PP - Mazda Eunos Roadster (NA Special Package) '89 - von Stiefel•
    347PP - Mazda Eunos Roadster (NA Special Package) '89 - von Stiefel•
    354PP - Mazda RX-7 GT-X (FC) '90 - axletramp•
    385PP - Pontiac GTO 5.7 Coupe '04 - GTsail290•
    385PP - Holden Monaro CV8 '04 - GTsail290•
    398PP - RUF 3400 '00 - GTsail290•


    Top 10 Closest Finishes
    198 feet - Honda Integra Type R DC5 '04 - GTsail290
    219 feet - Camaro Z28 '69 - fjdutoit•
    333 feet - Ford RS200 '84 - Dotini•
    697 feet - Peugeot 205 Turbo 16 '85 - Dotini•
    1,283 feet - BMW 2002 Turbo ’73 - axletramp
    2,439 feet - Hommel Berlinette R/S Coupe '99 - von Stiefel•
    2,968 feet - Mazda efini RX-7 Type RZ (FD) '96 - GTsail290
    3,495 feet - Ford RS200 '94 - Dotini
    4,867 feet - Subaru Impreza Sedan WRX STI Version '00 - GTsail290
    6,705 feet - Honda Integra Type R DC5 '04 - GTsail290

    Top 10 Slowest Winning Times
    2:40:09.137 - Hommel Berlinette R/S Coupe '99 - von Stiefel•
    2:39:52.078 - Lotus Elise 111S '03 - Dotini•
    2:39:46.811 - Honda NSX Type S Zero '97 - GTsail290•
    2:39:27.704 - Ford RS200 '94 - Dotini
    2:39:26.020 - Subaru BRZ S '12 - von Stiefel•
    2:39:04.496 - Honda NSX Type S Zero '97 - GTsail290•
    2:39:19.604 - Mazda efini RX-7 Type RZ (FD) '96 - GTsail290
    2:39:13.002 - Lotus Elise 111R '04 - Dotini•
    2:39.12.055 - Peugeot 205 Turbo 16 '85 - Dotini•
    2:39:04.496 - Honda NSX Type S Zero '97 - GTsail290•

    Notes
    •
    Post update 2.08 tyre model
    # Ran against one of the 'rabbits'
    ** Did not achieve victory
    + Multiple tyre compounds used, grouped with softest tyre used

    Observed pit stops and lap times for the AI Competition
    (Most common pit stops listed - some inconsistencies may occur due to race conditions)

    Car:---------------------------------------------------------Pit Stops:----Fastest Lap:
    Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (C5) '04 ----------------------------- 53 -------- 1:39.840
    Chevrolet Camaro SS '10 ------------------------------------ 50 -------- 1:40.557
    Chevrolet Corvette Stingray L46 350 (C3) '69 -------------- 47 ------- 1.40.696
    Dodge Viper GTS '02 --------------------------------------- 34/68 ------- 1:40.845 *pre v2.08
    Chevrolet Corvette Stingray Convertible (C3) '69 ---------- 51 ------- 1:41.430
    Chrysler 300C '05 -------------------------------------------- 46 ------- 1:41.750
    Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (C5) '00 ---------------------------- 55 --------- 1:41.789
    Dodge Viper GTS '99 ----------------------------------------- 49 -------- 1:41.430
    Chevrolet Camaro IROC-Z Concept '88 ---------------------- 50 ------- 1:42.347
    Dodge SRT4 '03 ----------------------------------------------- 47 ------- 1:42.710
    Chevrolet Corvette GRAND SPORT (C4) '96 ---------------- 53 ------- 1:42.852
    Dodge Challenger R/T '70 ------------------------------------ 47 ------- 1:42.956
    Chevrolet Camaro Z28 Coupe '97 ---------------------------- 52 ------- 1:43.117
    Chrysler Prowler '02 ----------------------------------------- 51 ------- 1:43.797
    Chevrolet Camaro SS '69 ------------------------------------ 48 ------- 1:43.832
    Mercury Cougar XR-7 '67 ------------------------------------- 49 ------- 1:44.129
    Dodge Challenger SRT8 '08 ---------------------------------- 50 ------- 1:44.363
    Chevrolet Camaro SS '00 ------------------------------------- 55 ------- 1.44.732
    Ford Mustang SVT Cobra R '00 ------------------------------- 52 ------- 1:44.788
    Shelby GT350R '65 -------------------------------------------- 57 ------- 1:45.114
    Chevrolet Corvette ZR-1 (C4) '90 ---------------------------- 49 ------- 1:45.171
    Chevrolet Chevelle SS 454 '70 ------------------------------- 44 ------- 1:46.118
    Pontiac Tempest Le Mans GTO '64 --------------------------- 50 ------- 1:46.128
    Dodge Charger Super Bee 426 Hemi '71--------------------- 44 ------- 1:46.146
    Pontiac GTO 5.7 Coupe '04 ----------------------------------- 51 ------- 1:46.259
    Buick GNX '87 ------------------------------------------------- 51 ------- 1:46.754
    Plymouth Superbird '70 --------------------------------------- 48 ------- 1:46.863
    Chevrolet Corvette Coupe (C2) '63 -------------------------- 55 ------- 1:47.679
    Ford Mustang GT '05 ------------------------------------------ 52 ------- 1:48.063
    Ford Taurus SHO '98 ------------------------------------------ 57 ------- 1:48.447
    Ford Mustang V8 Coupe GT Premium '07 -------------------- 55 ------- 1:49.131
    Plymouth Cuda 440 Six Pack '71 ----------------------------- 64 ------- 1:49.726

    I have listed the first 25 grids below (from PS3 reset):
    Code:
    Grid #1
    ---------------------------------
    GTO 5.7 Coupe '04
    Mustang GT '05
    Prowler '02
    GNX '87
    Challenger R/T '70
    Mustang SVT Cobra R '00
    Player 1
    Camaro SS '10
    Corvette Z06 (C5) '04
    Corvette Z06 (C5) '00
    Cuda 440 Six Pack '71
    Camaro SS '69
    
    Grid #2
    ---------------------------------
    Camaro Z28 Coupe '97
    Corvette Coupe (C2) '63
    Taurus SHO '98
    Chevelle SS 454 '70
    Viper GTS '99
    Cougar XR-7 '67
    Player 1
    Corvette Z06 (C5) '00
    Prowler '02
    Mustang V8 GT Coupe Premium '07
    300C '05
    Superbird '70
    
    Grid #3
    ---------------------------------
    Charger Super Bee 426 Hemi '71
    Chevelle SS 454 '70
    GNX '87
    Camaro IROC-Z Concept '88
    Mustang SVT Cobra R '00
    GT350R '65
    Player 1
    Corvette Coupe (C2) '63
    Cuda 440 Six Pack '71
    Prowler '02
    Corvette Z06 (C5) '04
    Corvette ZR-1 (C4) '90
    
    Grid #4
    ---------------------------------
    Camaro SS '10
    Charger Super Bee 426 Hemi '71
    Camaro SS '00
    GT350R '65
    GTO 5.7 Coupe '04
    Camaro IROC-Z Concept '88
    Player 1
    Charger 440 R/T '70
    Corvette Z06 (C5) '00
    Challenger R/T '70
    Mustang V8 GT Coupe Premium '07
    Cougar XR-7 '67
    
    Grid #5
    ---------------------------------
    Corvette Z06 (C5) '00
    Corvette ZR-1 (C4) '90
    Camaro SS '10
    Viper GTS '02
    Superbird '70
    SRT4 '03
    Player 1
    Mustang SVT Cobra R '00
    Charger Super Bee 426 Hemi '71
    Cougar XR-7 '67
    Charger 440 R/T '70
    GNX '87
    
    Grid #6
    ---------------------------------
    SRT4 '03
    Corvette Convertible (C3) '69
    Prowler '02
    Tempest Le Mans GTO '64
    Mustang SVT Cobra R '00
    Corvette Z06 (C5) '04
    Player 1
    Viper GTS '02
    GNX '87
    Camaro IROC-Z Concept '88
    300C '05
    Charger 440 R/T '70
    
    Grid #7
    ---------------------------------
    300C '05
    SRT4 '03
    Mustang GT '05
    Chevelle SS 454 '70
    Superbird '70
    Corvette GRAND SPORT (C4) '96
    Player 1
    Camaro IROC-Z Concept '88
    Challeneger SRT8 '08
    Charger Super Bee 426 Hemi '71
    Camaro Z28 Coupe '97
    Corvette Convertible (C3) '69
    
    Grid #8
    ---------------------------------
    Corvette Z06 (C5) '00
    Corvette Coupe (C2) '63
    Camaro SS '69
    SRT4 '03
    Superbird '70
    GT350R '65
    Player 1
    Prowler '02
    Camaro IROC-Z Concept '71
    Cuda 440 Six Pack '71
    Challenger R/T '70
    Corvette Convertible (C3) '69
    
    Grid #9
    ---------------------------------
    SRT4 '03
    Camaro SS '10
    Mustang V8 GT Coupe Premium '07
    Tempest Le Mans GTO '64
    Taurus SHO '98
    Player 1
    Camaro SS '69
    Mustang GT '05
    Corvette ZR-1 (C4) '90
    Challenger R/T '70
    GT350R '65
    
    Grid #10
    ---------------------------------
    Corvette Z06 (C5) '04
    Camaro SS '10
    SRT4 '03
    Mustang GT '05
    Camaro SS '00
    GTO 5.7 Coupe '04
    Player 1
    Corvette GRAND SPORT (C4) '96
    Cougar XR-7 '67
    Mustang V8 GT Coupe Premium '07
    Viper GTS '02
    Taurus SHO '98
    
    Grid #11
    ---------------------------------
    Mustang GT '05
    GT350R '65
    Camaro Z28 Coupe '97
    Cougar XR-7 '67
    Viper GTS '99
    300C '05
    Player 1
    Mustang V8 GT Coupe Premium '07
    Corvette Coupe (C2) '63
    Camaro SS '69
    Mustang SVT Cobra R '00
    Camaro SS '10
    
    Grid #12
    ---------------------------------
    Cougar XR-7 '67
    Corvette GRAND SPORT (C4) '96
    Chevelle SS 454 '70
    Corvette Z06 (C5) '00
    Camaro Z28 Coupe '97
    GT350R '65
    Player 1
    Viper GTS '99
    Mustang V8 GT Coupe Premium '07
    Corvette ZR-1 (C4) '90
    Corvette Coupe (C2) '63
    Taurus SHO '98
    
    Grid #13
    ---------------------------------
    Camaro Z28 Coupe '97
    Superbird '70
    Cuda 440 Six Pack '71
    Charger 440 R/T '70
    Camaro IROC-Z Concept '88
    Mustang V8 GT Coupe Premium '07
    Player 1
    Chevelle SS 454 '70
    Camaro SS '00
    Corvette Convertible (C3) '69
    Charger Super Bee 426 Hemi '71
    Cougar XR-7 '67
    
    Grid #14
    ---------------------------------
    Prowler '02
    GT350R '65
    Viper GTS '02
    Camaro SS '69
    300C '05
    Taurus SHO '98
    Player 1
    Corvette GRAND SPORT (C4) '96
    GNX '87
    Camaro SS '10
    Charger Super Bee 426 Hemi '71
    Cuda 440 Six Pack '71
    
    Grid #15
    ---------------------------------
    Camaro SS '10
    Mustang SVT Cobra R '00
    Corvette ZR-1 (C4) '90
    Taurus SHO '98
    Corvette GRAND SPORT (C4) '96
    Charger Super Bee 426 Hemi '71
    Player 1
    Charger 440 R/T '70
    Corvette Stingray L46 350 (C3) '69
    Corvette Z06 (C5) '04
    Chevelle SS 454 '70
    Camaro Z28 Coupe '97
    
    Grid #16
    ---------------------------------
    Camaro SS '69
    Corvette Convertible (C3) '69
    Challenger R/T '70
    Charger 440 R/T '70
    Corvette GRAND SPORT (C4) '96
    Taurus SHO '98
    Player 1
    Challenger SRT8 '08
    Camaro SS '00
    SRT4 '03
    Corvette Z06 (C5) '04
    Cougar XR-7 '67
    
    Grid #17
    ---------------------------------
    Corvette ZR-1 (C4) '90
    Taurus SHO '98
    Corvette Coupe (C2) '63
    Challenger SRT8 '08
    Charger Super Bee 426 Hemi '71
    Cougar XR-7 '67
    Player 1
    Chevelle SS 454 '70
    Viper GTS '02
    Prowler '02
    Camaro SS '10
    GT350R '65
    
    Grid #18
    ---------------------------------
    Camaro SS '69
    Camaro SS '00
    Chevelle SS 454 '70
    Corvette Stingray L46 350 (C3) '69
    Corvette ZR-1 (C4) '90
    Corvette Coupe (C2) '63
    Player 1
    Charger Super Bee 426 Hemi '71
    Camaro IROC-Z Concept '88
    GNX '87
    GT350R '65
    Viper GTS '99
    
    Grid #19
    ---------------------------------
    Charger 440 R/T '70
    Superbird '70
    Cougar XR-7 '67
    Camaro SS '00
    Mustang GT '05
    Corvette Convertible (C3) '69
    Player 1
    Prowler '02
    Corvette GRAND SPORT (C4) '96
    Taurus SHO '98
    300C '05
    Charger Super Bee 426 Hemi '71
    
    Grid #20
    ---------------------------------
    Challenger SRT8 '08
    Camaro SS '69
    Charger 440 R/T '70
    GTO 5.7 Coupe '04
    Mustang SVT Cobra R '00
    Taurus SHO '98
    Player 1
    Charger Super Bee 426 Hemi '71
    Mustang V8 GT Coupe Premium '07
    Corvette Z06 (C5) '04
    Camaro SS '10
    Corvette Stingray L46 350 (C3) '69
    
    Grid #21
    ---------------------------------
    Camaro Z28 Coupe '97
    Prowler '02
    Challenger R/T '70
    Mustang GT '05
    Challenger SRT8 '08
    Camaro SS '69
    Player 1
    Corvette Convertible (C3) '69
    Tempest Le Mans GTO '64
    Camaro SS '00
    Cuda 440 Six Pack '71
    Superbird '70
    
    Grid #22
    ---------------------------------
    Corvette Z06 (C5) '00
    Chevelle SS 454 '70
    Cougar XR-7 '67
    Cuda 440 Six Pack '71
    Corvette ZR-1 (C4) '90
    Mustang SVT Cobra R '00
    Player 1
    GT350R '65
    Viper GTS '99
    Corvette Coupe (C2) '68
    Corvette GRAND SPORT (C4) '96
    GTO 5.7 Coupe '04
    
    Grid #23
    ---------------------------------
    GTO 5.7 Coupe '04
    Viper GTS '99
    Prowler '02
    Corvette Z06 (C5) '00
    GNX '87
    Corvette GRAND SPORT (C4) '96
    Player 1
    Mustang V8 GT Coupe Premium '07
    Corvette Coupe (C2) '63
    Chevelle SS 454 '70
    Cuda 440 Six Pack '71
    Camaro SS '10
    
    Grid #24
    ---------------------------------
    Cougar XR-7 '67
    Mustang SVT Cobra R '00
    Tempest Le Mans GTO '64
    Cuda 440 Six Pack '71
    Camaro SS '00
    Chevelle SS 454 '70
    Player 1
    Challenger SRT8 '08
    Mustang GT '05
    Corvette ZR-1 (C4) '90
    Charger Super Bee 426 Hemi '71
    Camaro SS '10
    
    Grid #25
    ---------------------------------
    Chevelle SS 454 '70
    SRT4 '03
    Corvette GRAND SPORT (C4) '96
    Camaro SS '10
    Prowler '02
    Superbird '70
    Player 1
    GT350R '65
    GTO 5.7 Coupe '04
    Camaro Z28 Coupe '97
    Corvette ZR-1 (C4) '90
    Camaro SS '00
    Thanks for taking part and gentlemen, start your engines! :D
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2013
  2. GTsail

    GTsail Premium

    Messages:
    2,456
    Location:
    United States
    Thanks axletramp, Great thread!

    I've been waiting for someone to open up a Laguna Seca thread. Nice change of pace from the Valley! Remember to bring your sun-tan lotion!

    Now, I must find a car...hmmmm...

    For my first attempt, I will use a Mazda efini RX-7 Type RZ (FD) '96.

    After some parts and a quick tune my RX-7 has the following specs:

    Horsepower: 264
    Weight: 1310 (added 60kg of ballast)
    PP value: 438
    Tires: SH (used throughout the race)
    P.Limiter: 94.8%

    Against Alt. Lineup # 5
    ------------------------
    1) Camaro SS '00
    2) Mustang SVT Cobra R
    3) SuperBird '70
    4) Challenger R/T '70
    5) Dodge SRT4 '03
    6) Mustang GT '05
    7) GTsail in the RX-7
    8) Corvette Stingray L46 350 C3
    9) Challenger SRT8 '08
    10) Corvette ZR-1 C4 '90
    11) Camaro SS '10
    12) Buick GNX '87

    The flag drops and we're off!

    Its been a while since I've driven anything at Laguna Seca, so I don't really know what to expect. At the end of lap # 1, I see that I'm 5.1 seconds behind the race leading Camaro SS '00 after a 1.54.688 lap. I'm in 5th place.

    On lap # 2, I pass the 4th place Dodge SRT4 as we go thru turn ten.

    On lap # 3, I pass the 3rd place Challenger R/T '70 going thru turn # 3.

    On lap # 6, I pass the 2nd place Mustang SVT Cobra as I accelerate away from turn # 11. At the end of lap # 6, I'm 2.8 seconds behind the race leading Camaro SS '00.

    On lap # 7, I set and early lap record of 1.44.705 in an effort to catch the first place Chevy Camaro SS '00.

    After ten laps, I'm only 1.1 seconds behind the race leading Camaro SS '00.

    At the end of lap # 11, I pass the 1st place Camaro SS '00 as we exit turn # 11 and head up the S/F straight.

    After 15 laps, I find myself with a 5 second lead over the Camaro SS '00 who has the entire field on his bumper. Feeling overly confident, I blow turn # 3 on lap # 16, and drive off the tarmac and smack the armco. I get passed by the next three cars before I'm able to empty my shoes of sand. I'm able to catch and pass the 3rd place Chevy Camaro SS '10 as we go thru turn # 11 at the end of the lap, and redeem myself a little. After 16 laps, I'm in 3rd place, 2.2 seconds behind the race leading Camaro SS '00 after a lap record for slowness of 1.57.067.

    On lap # 17, I pass the 2nd place Challenger R/T '70 as we go thru turn # 11.

    On lap # 18, I pass the 1st place Camaro SS '00 as we go thru turn # 6, and re-take the race lead. Phew!

    After a long pause.....

    On lap # 20, I blow turn # 6, and smack the inside wall and lose 3 places on the track!!! At the end of the lap, I'm 4.5 seconds behind the 1st place Challenger R/T '70 after a 1.55.181 lap. Not good!

    On lap # 21, I re-pass the 3rd place 2010 Camaro.

    On lap # 22, I re-pass the 2nd place 2000 Camaro.

    At the end of lap # 23, I see that I'm 5 seconds behind the race leading Challenger R/T '70.

    I'm 2 seconds behind the race leading Challenger R/T '70 when I pit at the end of lap # 30 for another set of SH tires and 25 liters of fuel. The 3rd place 2010 Camaro is close behind me, so he drives past and takes over 2nd place in the race.

    By the time I get released from the pits, I've fallen back to 5th place in the race. At the first checkpoint on lap # 31 I get the news that I've fallen 30 seconds behind the race leading 2010 Camaro who has passed the Challenger R/T '70. The Challenger R/T '70 pits at he end of lap # 31, so he falls back to 7th place and I climb up into 3rd place.

    On lap # 33, I pass the 2nd place 2000 Camaro going thru turn # 2.

    The first place 2010 Camaro pits at the end of lap # 35, so I take over the race lead as I begin lap # 36.

    At the 2nd checkpoint on lap # 36, I get the news that I've been able to open up a 16 second lead over the 2000 Camaro due to everyone's pit-stops.

    My fresh tires allow me to set a new lap record on lap # 41 of 1.43.845.

    On lap # 42 I see that I still have a 14 second lead over the Challenger R/T '70, who has taken over 2nd place in the race.

    At the end of lap # 50, I still have a 10 second lead over the 2010 Camaro, who has recently passed the Challenger R/T '70 and is making up ground on me.

    On lap # 55, I pass the 8th place Challenger SRT8 '08 and put him a lap down. I hope that the SRT8 will act as a buffer, and slow the 2010 Camaro down because the 2010 Camaro is now only 3 seconds behind me!

    After 57 laps, my lead over the 2010 Camaro is only 0.462 seconds, which makes him easy to see in my mirrors!

    The 2010 Camaro is really fast, and doesn't seem to have any problems driving past the back-markers!

    On lap # 65, the 2010 Camaro drives past me when I take a bad line thru turn # 6. I take this as a sign to pit, so I dive into the pits for another set of SH tires and 17 liters of fuel.

    At the first checkpoint on lap # 66, I get the news that I've fallen 32 seconds behind the 2010 Camaro.

    On lap # 70, the first place 2010 Camaro pits and then exits the pits 5 seconds in front of me. He must have taken on very little fuel! Oh dear!

    I chase hard during laps 71, 72 and 73, but can't catch the 2010 Camaro, who opens up a 9 second gap by the end of lap # 73. I even set a new lap record of 1.43.550.

    Still in chase mode, I set a new lap record of 1.43.151 on lap # 76, but now see that I've fallen 13 seconds behind the race leading 2010 Camaro.

    On lap # 82, pushing too hard to catch the 5th place Corvette Stingray L46 350 C3, I do a 360 on the exit from turn # 4 and lose about 8 seconds. At the end of lap # 82, I'm 27 seconds behind the race leading 2010 Camaro.

    On lap # 85, I finally catch the 5th place Corvette Stingray L46 C3 and put him a lap down.

    After 90 laps and 2 hours, 39 minutes, 19.604 seconds, I cross the finish line in 2nd place.

    Finish order
    ------------
    1) 2010 Camaro (driven by I.Harrington, who may be a F1 driver)
    2) GTsail in the RX-7 --- behind by 40.084 seconds
    3) Challenger R/T '70 --- 1min, 5.448 secs behind
    4) Dodge SRT4 ----------- 1min, 40.xx secs behind
    5) Corvette Stingray ---- 1 lap down
    6) Mustang SVT ---------- 1 lap down
    7) 2000 Camaro ---------- 1 lap down
    8) Challenger SRT8
    9) Corvette ZR-1
    10) Superbird '70
    11) Buick GNX ----------- 3 laps down
    12) Mustang GT ---------- 3 laps down

    Post race notes:
    ----------------
    The 2010 Camaro is just too strong! As he burned off his fuel load, he started to go faster and faster! My Mazda RX-7 is a little tail-happy at Laguna Seca, so this meant that I couldn't push that hard coming out of the tight turns, so some time was lost due to this, but really its just that the 2010 Camaro is too much for me. The 2010 Camaro's best lap was a 1.41.010, which is in a class above mine. The 3rd place Challenger R/T 's best lap was a 1.42.353, which is more reasonable. The Dodge SRT4's best lap was a 1.43.616. The Dodge SRT4 spent most of the race closer than his finishing margin would suggest, because he lost 25 seconds at the end by pitting on lap # 89, after earlier stops on lap # 29 and lap # 59. He was the only car that pitted three times that I saw.

    Catch them next time!
    GTsail
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2012
  3. Dotini

    Dotini Premium

    Messages:
    14,042
    Location:
    United States
    Hats off to axletramp for creating the new thread! :bowdown:

    Just for some initial scouting, I did a run this morning. It was online, as opposed to the normal offline running I do for the GV300km, so I don't know what difference that makes. Anyway, I was in an Elise 111S of about 406 PP running against standard lineup #1. I finished 2nd, about a minute ahead of the pack, and about a minute behind the Chevrolet Corvette Z06 (C5) '04 (1:39.840 best lap), who stopped twice for tires, as did I. I spun out too many times, particularly on worn tires, to have won. I saved the replay. Later, I will re-run the race offline, compare the times of the runners to those online, and let you know what I find. Right now, I'm saying the Z06 '04 might be a bit of a rabbit!

    Note: Another mistake I made was coming in too hot for the first pit stop. My stop was disallowed; I had to drive through and go around again!!

    Respectfully,
    Steve
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2012
  4. Furi

    Furi Premium

    Messages:
    44,046
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    I did it in B Spec with my VW Scirocco earlier, finished 3rd after a close battle with a Corvette and Camaro for 2nd and 4th at the end.
     
  5. axletramp

    axletramp Premium

    Messages:
    18,883
    Location:
    Jersey
    Thanks Guys, early days but hopefully most of the info/figures will be in place after the weekend. I can't take total credit for the idea of this thread - yes, I'm looking at you Mr GTSail290! ;)

    My own research around the internet has also shown that the Corvette Z06 '04 is indeed as quick (at times quicker) as the Vipers. I've updated the 'rabbits' list as a appropriate. :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2012
  6. Dotini

    Dotini Premium

    Messages:
    14,042
    Location:
    United States
    On another scouting mission to acquire AI car data, I ran against grid #2 this morning, and had a much easier time.

    Lotus Elise 111R '04
    Horsepower: 179
    Weight: 1056kg
    PP value: 418
    Tires: SS
    P.Limiter: 85%

    Total time: 2:34:28.837
    MoV: Almost two full laps over Viper GTS '99, then Z06 '00 and Camaro Z28 '97
    Fastest Lap: 1:39.105

    Abbreviated race description
    Lap 1: Drop to 8th, but climb to 4th by end of lap. All passing is clean
    Lap 2: Take 3rd
    Lap 3: Overtake Viper for 2nd with a lap of 1:41.158
    Lap 6: Take 1st from Camaro.
    Lap 33: Pit for new SS tires, even though the old ones are worn less than 50%
    Lap 50: Lap the Viper in 2nd
    Lap 66: Pit for new tires.
    Lap 90: Finish on the bumper of the lapped Viper, all other cars >two laps in arrears, some I think I lapped half a dozen times. :crazy:

    It can be seen that my car was way too quick for this competition. But completing the race was justified on the basis of the data collected on the lap times and pit schedules, which will appear in post #1.

    Once it can be determined which are the more favorable lineups, I will try for a closer race.

    Respectfully submitted,
    Steve
     
  7. axletramp

    axletramp Premium

    Messages:
    18,883
    Location:
    Jersey
    Nice run Dotini and thanks for the data. :tup:

    Looks like sub-400PP runs could be quite common here. I've taken both the Vipers from the 'rabbits' list until one or either of them prove that they can live up to the billing! Both the Camaro SS '10 and, more particularly, the Z06 '04 are capable of running solid 1:39.xxx/1:40.xxx's and leaving the field behind once they're in clean air. As a consequence they have both been placed in the 'rabbits' list.

    Edit: Just finished my first full run in a 'stock' car on grid #7. Will post report and update data tomorrow. :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2012
  8. Dotini

    Dotini Premium

    Messages:
    14,042
    Location:
    United States
    What happened to GTsail?! Was his little RX-7 gobbled up by the big, bad Camaro '10, or stung by the Stingray? :scared: :crazy:

    Respectfully submitted,
    Steve
     
  9. axletramp

    axletramp Premium

    Messages:
    18,883
    Location:
    Jersey
    Based on Dotini's easy win I originally ran my 390PP S2000 from my most recent GVS300 run. This was OK to start but the 300C and SRT4 scampered off into the distance and by the first pit stop on lap 30 were over a minute ahead of me even though I was in a comfortable 3rd. But what happened next led me to quit the race and try a higher PP. As I came into the pits I was perhaps a little too hot as I didn't realise the AI took control so late at the tight turn. As a consequence the AI lost it and buried the nose of my car into the barrier and stuck there! BE WARNED: DON'T COME INTO THE PITS TOO FAST! Lesson learnt. :grumpy:

    So I quit and ran through my garage and found my well used MUGEN S2000 at 423PP which looked about right and would mean I had a little more pace on the straights and more torque up the hills as well. I ran her stock on super soft tyres and didn't change the oil.

    [​IMG]

    Car: MUGEN S2000 '00
    HP: 234
    PP: 423
    Weight: 1240Kg
    Mods: None - Stock
    Power Level: 100%
    Tyres: SS
    All aids off. ABS 1. DFGT wheel.

    Grid:
    1. 300C '05
    2. SRT4 '03
    3. Mustang GT '05
    4. Chevelle SS 454 '70
    5. Superbird '70
    6. Corvette GRAND SPORT (C4) '96
    7. Me
    8. Camaro IROC-Z Concept '88
    9. Challeneger SRT8 '08
    10. Charger Super Bee 426 Hemi '71
    11. Camaro Z28 Coupe '97
    12. Corvette Convertible (C3) '69

    As soon as the flag dropped it was clear I was down on straight line speed. I was passed by the IROC-Z and SRT8 but calmly ran around the outside of turn 1 and slotted in behind the Superbird. It was then a matter of being patient on the straights and pouncing in the turns where I had far better brakes and grip. As I had seen from my aborted run the 300C and SRT4 were pulling a gap on the rest of us so I was relieved to end the lap in 3rd just -3 secs down.

    I settled into some good 1:41.xxx's which were easily enough to see me past the 300C and into the lead at the final turn of lap 3. By this time myself, the 300C and SRT4 were already +6 secs ahead of the field who were being held up by the SS 454.

    At the end of lap 5 I've hit a lap of 1:41.051 although I'm not convinced I'm hitting my best lines though turn 1 and the corkscrew. The Corvette GRAND SPORT has eventually passed the SS 454 and is hitting 1:42.xxx's. I'm running about 2.5 secs a lap faster than the 300C in 2nd.

    Laps 6 to 15
    More of the same but I'm now only running about a second a lap quicker than the 300C and SRT4 - 1:42.xxx's vs 1:43.xxx's. By Lap 15 the 300C is pretty much matching me about 12 secs behind. My tyres are about 60% front and 75% rear and grip is good so I should just about do for 30 laps.

    Laps 16 to 20
    Start to lap the back markers and by lap 20 I've gone past the Challenger Super Bee, SRT8 and Superbird. Start to feel my tyres now and the 300C is still matching my lap times. +12 secs.

    Laps 20 to 30
    I manage to learn how to deal with my worn tyres and to stay in the 1:43.xxx/1:44.xxx's (S2000's are good on worn tyres). However, the 300C and SRT4 aren't so by the time I pit on lap 30 I have a 29 second lead. 300C is pulling 1:46.xxx/1:47.xxx's now. I take new SS rubber and only 10 litres of fuel even though I've used almost half a tank - I'll see how things go and grab some the next time around. 300C pits behind me.

    Laps 30 to 45
    New tyres and I'm now back in the 1:41.xxx's. Not under pressure and now almost a minute ahead, I decide to see how quick this MUGEN can go and hit a few 1:40.xxx's and then a 1:39.963 on lap 34. The gap back to the 300C in second and SRT4 in third is now irrelevant as I'm pulling away hand-over-fist. In my attempts to get into the 1:39.xxx's I did have a few big offs - well, you can't make an omelette without breaking some eggs! ;)

    By the halfway point (lap 45) I've lapped everyone up to the 300C in 2nd and double-lapped everyone up to the Z28 in 7th. I'm only about 28 seconds behind lapping the 300C. This is now purely a data gathering exercise. The difference between a 390PP and a 423PP run is amazing. I put this mainly down to the weight and therefore tyre wear and acceleration out of the tight turns and up the hills.

    Laps 46 to 50
    The 300C holds the gap back to me at about 22 seconds (for lapping). He seems faster in the middle stint of his tyres whereas I hammer mine earlier and then plateau out in the 1:43.xxx's.

    Laps 51 to 60
    I slowly start to gain as his tyres wear - at least he gave me a target to chase even if it was only to lap him. I pit 13 seconds behind for new SS tyres and 20 litres of fuel. Tyres were 20% front and 33% rear.

    Laps 60 to 70
    The inevitable happens and I lap the 300C on lap 64 with fresh tyres. I then hit my fastest lap of 1:39.871 on lap 67.

    Laps 70 to 80
    I open a gap of about 13 seconds and the 300C starts, as usual, to match me in the 1:42.xxx/1:43.xxx's. The 300C is about 50 secs ahead of the 3rd place SRT4 who is now only about 4 secs ahead of the late charging Stingray '69 which can be very quick in short bursts, but can't seem to sustain it.

    Laps 80 to 90
    Stingray '69 passes the SRT4 to go 3rd. I hold a gap of 20 secs back to the lapped 300C. The SRT4 gets lapped by me and then passed by the IROC-Z. I cross the line for a very easy win but vital data exercise.

    Finishing time was 2:37:14.452 with a winning margin of 1 lap and 22 secs over the second place 300C. Distant 3rd place was the Stingray '69.

    Fastest lap: 1:39.871 on lap 67.

    Conclusion
    Easy win but some important info there. The 300C was the surprise 'rabbit' here, but I'm not putting her on the list as I think that was mainly down to being on the front row without any major competition.

    I might look to have a run at the grid#5 next as it looks the pick of the bunch with the Corvette Z06 (C5) '00, Camaro SS '10 and Viper GTS '02 occupying three of the top four positions. :mischievous:
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2012
  10. axletramp

    axletramp Premium

    Messages:
    18,883
    Location:
    Jersey
    Might be he ended up in the pit wall as well! :lol: Watch that pit entry guys. ;)
     
  11. GTsail

    GTsail Premium

    Messages:
    2,456
    Location:
    United States
    Yes, exactly! The 2010 Camaro gave me a smack-down!

    I had to go back against an easier lineup to get the win!

    I will post both races shortly.

    Respectfully,
    GTsail
     
  12. GTsail

    GTsail Premium

    Messages:
    2,456
    Location:
    United States
    After receiving a smack-down from the 2010 Camaro (see post # 2 above), I check the race calender for an easier group of AI drivers and decide that I have a chance against lineup # 7.

    So I have my pit crew freshen the tune on my Mazda efini RX-7 Type RZ (FD) '96, and head back to Laguna Seca. My '96 RX-7 now has the following specs:

    Horsepower: 264
    Weight: 1300 (50 kg of ballast)
    PP value: 438
    Tires: SH (used throughout the race)
    P.Limiter: 96.2%
    No skid

    Against Lineup # 7
    -------------------
    1) Chrysler 300C '05
    2) Dodge SRT4 '03
    3) Mustang GT '05
    4) Chevelle SS 454 '70
    5) Superbird '70
    6) Corvette Grand Sport C4 '96
    7) GTsail in the RX-7
    8) Camaro IROC-Z Concept
    9) Challenger SRT8 '08
    10) Charger SuperBee 426 Hemi
    11) Camaro Z28 Coupe '97
    12) Corvette Convertible C3 '69

    The flag drops and we're off again!

    I immediately get dropped down to 8th place by the IROC-Z Camaro, but re-pass him going thru turn one. During lap # 1, I drive thru the field since everyone is on cold tires, so by the end of the lap I'm in 3rd place, 4.7 seconds behind the race leading Chrysler 300C. The Dodge SRT4 is in 2nd place, just behind the 300C.

    On lap # 6, I pass the 2nd place SRT4 as we go thru turn # 11 and accelerate up the S/F straight.

    At the end of lap # 7, I'm 7 seconds behind the race leading 300C.

    At the end of lap # 10, I'm only 5 seconds behind the race leading 300C, so I've started to catch him!

    By the end of lap # 15, I'm only 1 second behind the race leading 300C. Its my feeling that the 300C has slowed down a bit recently because he's not chasing anyone, so this makes it possible to catch him.

    At the end of lap # 20, I'm still 1 second behind the race leading 300C. Lap # 20 was done in 1.44.088, so we've both slowed down a bit at this point. Maybe a full second.

    On lap # 21, we start to catch the back of the field as we brake for the corkscrew. The first back-marker is the Challenger SRT8.

    On lap # 22, I follow the 300C when he passes the Challenger SRT8 going thru turn # 6. Lap # 22 took 1.48.088, so passing back markers really slows down the 300C and makes it easy for me to hang with him and save my tires a bit.

    On lap # 23, I follow the 300C when he passes the 11th place Camaro Z28 Coupe '97.

    At the beginning of lap # 24, I follow the 300C when he passes the 10th place Charger SuperBee 426. The 9th place Superbird '70 gets passed as well.

    On lap # 25, we both pass the 8th place Mustang GT '05.

    On lap # 27, we both pass the 7th place Chevelle SS 454. At the end of the lap, I'm only 0.235 seconds behind the race leading 300C after a 1.46.264 lap. The Chevelle SS 454 was the last of the slow back-markers, so the track ahead is now clear for both me and the 300C.

    The 300C heads into the pits at the end of lap # 30, so I follow him straight in. The menu says that I need 38 liters of fuel, but I only put in 20 liters to save time and install another set of SH tires. My pit crew is fast, so I pass the 300C, who is still up on his jacks, and take the race lead, as I get released down the pit lane.

    A couple of the back-markers come past while we're in the pits, but none of the faster cars, so when I begin lap # 31, I find my self in first place.

    At the first checkpoint on lap # 31, I get the news that I have an 8 second lead over the 2nd place Corvette Grand Sport '96. The Corvette Convertible '69 has taken over 3rd place, the IROC-Z Camaro Concept has taken over 4th place, while the 300C has fallen back into 5th place due to his slow pit stop.

    At the end of lap # 35, I get the news that I have a 21 second lead over the 2nd place 300C, who has passed the rest of the field, since he now has fresh tires and is really moving again.

    At the end of lap # 40, I still have a 14 second lead over the 2nd place 300C, who is still running some fast laps.

    At the end of lap # 45, I still have a 12 second lead over the 2nd place 300C.

    On lap # 50, I set a new lap record of 1.42.919, which allows me to increase my lead over the 300C to 14 seconds. Back-markers may have played a roll in this increased margin.

    At the end of lap # 55, my lead over the 300C has increased to 20 seconds after a 1.43.825 lap. The 300C has definitely started to slow down. Either due to worn tires, or back-marker traffic.

    I pass the 6th place Corvette Grand Sport '96 at the beginning of lap # 60. My lead over the 300C has grown to 28 seconds, so I expect that the 300C will pit for tires.

    On lap # 61, my lead balloons out to 58 seconds, so the 300C did pit last lap. My tires are still ok, but I decide to pit anyway at the end of lap # 61 to stay on a similar pit strategy as the 300C. I take on 16 liters of fuel this time.

    At the 2nd checkpoint on lap # 62, I get the news that my lead over the 2nd place 300C is back down to 32 seconds. The Corvette Convertible C3 '69 has climbed up into 3rd place, while the IROC-Z Camaro Concept is in 4th place, the Corvette Grand Sport '96 is in 5th, and the Dodge SRT4 is in 6th place. Everyone's varied pit-stops have jumbled the field a bit.

    At the end of lap # 65, I see that my lead over the 300C is down to 30 seconds since the 300C has started to run some fast laps again.

    On lap # 67, I pass the 6th place IROC-Z Camaro who is just exiting the pits after a late race pit-stop.

    On lap # 68, I re-pass the 5th place Corvette Grand Sport '96 who had un-lapped himself during my last pit stop.

    At the end of lap # 70, I see that I have a 27 second lead over the 2nd place 300C. My low fuel load and fresh tires allow me to set a new lap record of 1.42.434.

    On lap # 75, I pass the 4th place Dodge SRT4 and put him a lap down. I still have a 28 second lead.

    My race lead is still 28 seconds at the end of lap # 80.

    On lap # 84, I get overly agressive with the throttle on the exit from turn # 10 and spin-out! A complete 360, and lose about 9 seconds before getting underway again. At the end of the lap, my lead over the 300C is only 20 seconds. Yikes!

    By lap # 88, my lead is back up to 25 seconds over a slowing 300C after some good laps again, even though my tires are pretty worn out.

    After 90 laps and 2 hours, 37 minutes, 51.972 seconds I take the win!

    Finishing order
    ---------------
    1) me in the RX-7
    2) Chrysler 300C--------------26.505 seconds back (BL 1.41.782)
    3) Corvette Convertible '69---48.047 secs back (BL 1.41.242)
    4) IROC-Z Camaro--------------1 lap down------ (BL 1.42.495)
    5) Dodge SRT4-----------------1 lap down------ (BL 1.42.628)
    6) Corvette Grand Sport-------1 lap down------ (BL 1.43.310)
    7) Camaro Z28 Coupe-----------2 laps down----- (BL 1.43.763)
    8) Challenger SRT8------------3 laps down----- (BL 1.44.474)
    9) Chevelle SS 454------------4 laps down----- (BL 1.46.508)
    10) Charger SuperBee 426------4 laps down----- (BL 1.46.157)
    11) Superbird '70-------------4 laps down
    12) Mustang GT '05------------lots of laps

    Post race notes
    ---------------
    Quite a nice race. The Chrysler 300C is pretty strong for its first 25 laps during a tire stint. He just starts to lose time during his last 5 laps before each pit stop. I never really saw the 3rd place Corvette Convertible '69, but I guess he was never too far back. If the 300C hadn't started on pole, I could have had an easier win because he's not great at passing the back-markers.

    Enjoy the racing!
    GTsail
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2012
  13. simjanes2k

    simjanes2k

    Messages:
    6
    I love reading the race stories here. The writing is fantastic, and it makes the whole thing pretty exciting.

    My new smoke break reading material is you guys!
     
  14. axletramp

    axletramp Premium

    Messages:
    18,883
    Location:
    Jersey
    Glad you enjoy them. Why not have a run and post your own report. :D
     
  15. Dotini

    Dotini Premium

    Messages:
    14,042
    Location:
    United States
    Based on the recommendation of GTsail, I took on lineup #13 with the following results:

    Ford RS200 '94
    Horsepower: 206
    Weight: 1366kg
    PP value: 402
    Tires: SS
    P.Limiter: 85%

    Total time: 2:39:27.704
    MoV: 31.485 seconds over the Camaro Z28 '97 (FL 1:43.127), and 32.517 over the Stingray (FL 1:42.554). The IROC Z was a close fourth.
    Fastest Lap: 1:42.061 (Lap 35)

    Against Grid #13
    ---------------------------------
    Camaro Z28 Coupe '97
    Superbird '70
    Cuda 440 Six Pack '71
    Charger 440 R/T '70
    Camaro IROC-Z Concept '88
    Mustang V8 GT Coupe Premium '07
    Player 1
    Chevelle SS 454 '70
    Camaro SS '00
    Corvette Stingray Convertible (C3) '69
    Charger Super Bee 426 Hemi '71
    Cougar XR-7 '67


    Abbreviated race description:
    Lap 1: Drop to 8th, but climb to 2th by end of lap. Most all passing is clean.
    Lap 5: Overtake the Z28 for 1st at the corkscrew with a lap of 1:42.920.
    Lap 24: Pit for new SS tires with wear almost to 50% on the right front.
    Lao 35: Set my quickest lap of the day at 1:42.061.
    Lap 48: Pits for tires.
    Lap 72: Pit for new tires.
    Lap 90: Finish comfortably about half minute up on the Camaro Z28, '69 Stingray very close together, and IROC-Z just a few seconds back.

    It can be seen that my car was still a bit too quick (in the corners) for a real tight race. This lineup would undoubtedly be very entertaining to run for lower PP. I have a feeling the '69 Stingray would have done even better if he had started up front instead of near the back.

    Respectfully submitted,
    Steve
     
  16. axletramp

    axletramp Premium

    Messages:
    18,883
    Location:
    Jersey
    Nice run. Does indeed look like grid #13 is the choice for the lower PP runs. Check out grid #10 if you want a tough one though - the Z06 '04 and Camaro SS '10 occupy the front row. :mischievous:

    However, I'm running grid #24 next to complete my data gathering.
     
  17. GTsail

    GTsail Premium

    Messages:
    2,456
    Location:
    United States
    Nice run Dotini!

    I notice that you had to pit 3 times.

    Are you driving too fast??

    Or does the Laguna Seca track eat the sport soft tires on the Ford RS200? My four recent runs (V.2) at Laguna Seca have all been on SH tires, and the SH tires are lasting 30-33 laps, so I've only been pitting twice.

    I'm currently running a race against the same lineup #13, and have found that the first three AI cars that you mention are quite evenly matched. This looks to be a nicely balanced grid for us LS 200m fanatics!

    Respectfully,
    GTsail
     
  18. Dotini

    Dotini Premium

    Messages:
    14,042
    Location:
    United States
    Thanks!

    I actually planned on pitting 3 times, as I do not like to drive on tires that are worn to point (i.e., worse than 50%) where I cannot dominate twisty sector times or risk spinning out. Since my setups invariably suck :nervous: on the straights due to my self-imposed doctrine of low PP, grippy tires are my one, true righteous path to Victory Lane. :cool:

    I totally agree that this (so far) is the ideal grid for us: no hares, no slugs; only snails! :drool: :dopey: :tup:

    This field of cars is so evenly balanced, that I'm certain it will be the source of many illustrious and exciting reports to be filed right here on axletramp's great thread. :)

    Respectfully submitted,
    Steve
     
  19. simjanes2k

    simjanes2k

    Messages:
    6
    I actually did run it last night just for kicks, but I didnt record any details that time through.

    The car was overpowered anyway, used a Ferrari 430 at about 480pp. Won by over two laps even with a late third pit for miscalculating fuel, against both rabbits.

    I think I will do a full race report of my next one, in my IRL car, the Chally SRT. I have a thing for pitting big heavy American muscle, even if I can't do it at as low of a pp!
     
  20. axletramp

    axletramp Premium

    Messages:
    18,883
    Location:
    Jersey
    That's the same problem I have to balance on the low PP runs - lack of straight line speed vs cornering speed vs tyre wear. Personally I find that 4WD are worst for my driving style, then FF, RR, MR and finally FR. I could see how other drivers would say that FF is their worst, but I find that I can tune FFs to turn in better than 4WDs and therefore scrub the tyres less. Getting as close as you can to 50/50 balance hugely helps tyre wear.

    On that note, I've noticed how the heavy AI FR cars here wear their tyres in the completely opposite manner to me, i.e. the rears are often down to less than 25% and the fronts are still fine when they pit. I tend to wear my fronts faster even in equivalent cars and whatever the track.
     
  21. Dotini

    Dotini Premium

    Messages:
    14,042
    Location:
    United States
    This whole question of tire wear in the latest iteration of GT5 is an interesting subject. By the end of playing GT4, I thought I'd understood the technique of tuning for tire wear. One of the major lessons was moving ballast balance away from the tires with the most wear. I think this still applies, but I'm only slowly learning the new, evolving physics of GT5.

    One important technique I've learned is to install a stock (i.e., quiet) exhaust muffler in order to better listen to what the tires are doing. Another is to keep an eagle eye on the tire temperature indicators, with red to be avoided at all costs.

    Obviously, pace - and the methods used to obtain it - are another key part of the puzzle. One of my bad habits as a driver is to stuff the car through the corner by means of a lift followed by scrubbing off enough speed, sliding the tires, to make the apex. But maybe actually dabbing the brakes while the car is still going straight before the turn-in is the preferable method, even if not quite as quick, in an endurance race scenario?

    I think suspension, LSD, ballast and even aero tuning can make a difference when it comes to controlling (or even drastically altering) understeer and oversteer. Understeer of course kills our front tires, and oversteer kills the rears.

    Although I'm not currently experimenting with them, driver options are another part of the mix. For instance, a click or two of traction control might add a certain number of laps to your stint. Or it might not.

    But all of this is new enough in the evolution of the game to expect that a complete understanding and explanation is not yet in hand. I'm looking forward to continuing this discussion, and building up a database on the tire wear problem in GT5.

    Respectfully submitted,
    Steve

    Edit: I would add that sticking with the same car, or small group of cars, through an evolving process of testing, tuning, and racing at different tracks is a good way to get to know its handling and tire wear characteristics, and according, to evolve major improvements in lap times, tire life, and competitiveness to the AI.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2012
  22. axletramp

    axletramp Premium

    Messages:
    18,883
    Location:
    Jersey
    Completely agree with this and it's probably the biggest change that running these endurance challenges has made to my driving style. Of course it can be difficult to maintain a slow in/fast out style when in the middle of a dog-fight with a much more powerful opponent.

    Personally I've found that traction control helps very little when it comes to tyre wear. Some people swear by it, but I feel that anything below 550PP isn't really affected and any benefit is outweighed by the loss of throttle control or spin recovery. I just try to avoid wheelspin with my right foot. ;)
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2012
  23. Dotini

    Dotini Premium

    Messages:
    14,042
    Location:
    United States
    I, too, do not use traction control in our endurance races, and I do squeeze on the throttle off slow corners rather than stomping it. Even so, using copter cam, I've seen plenty of normal cars of normal power and weight, exhibit terrible wheelspin, either on the inside tire or the outside, when coming off slow corners. Wheelspin clearly does no good for the tires, and it kills your carried speed down the subsequent straight, thus killing your laptime.

    Therefore, wheelspin is a deadly enemy, to be confronted not just with the right foot, but also with the tools of LSD, weight distribution, toe and camber, springs and shocks. We don't want our driven tires sliding partly sideways as we try to accelerate off the corner. Even gear ratio, clutch and flywheel may play roles in the control of wheelspin.

    Respectfully submitted,
    Steve
     
  24. GTsail

    GTsail Premium

    Messages:
    2,456
    Location:
    United States
    Seeing as I'm a big fan of Impreza's, my next Laguna Seca attempt will be with a Subaru Impreza Sedan WRX STI Version '00 painted a nice silver metallic.

    After some tuning, my WRX has the following specs:

    Horsepower: 269
    Weight: 1460 (added 30 kg of ballast)
    PP value: 440
    Tires: SH (used throughout the race)
    P.Limiter: 90.9%
    No skid

    The AI grid is from Lineup # 13
    -------------------------------
    1) Camaro Z28 Coupe '97
    2) Plymouth Superbird '70
    3) Cuda 440 Six Pack '71
    4) Dodge Charger 440 R/T '70
    5) Camaro IROC-Z Concept '88
    6) Mustang V8 GT Coupe Pre. '07
    7) GTsail in the WRX
    8) Chevelle SS 454 '70
    9) Camaro SS '00
    10) Corvette Stingray Convertible C3 '69
    11) Charger Super Bee 426 Hemi
    12) Cougar XR-7 '67

    The flap drops and we're off again!

    I get swamped by the field going into turn one and get dropped into 9th place. During lap # 1, I work my way thru the field and end the lap in 5th place, some 7 seconds behind the race leading '97 Camaro Z28.

    At the end of lap # 2, I'm in 3rd place, still 7 seconds behind the race leading '97 Camaro Z28. The 2nd place Charger 440 R/T '70 is about 3.5 seconds ahead of me.

    On lap # 4, I set an early lap record of 1.43.240.

    On lap # 7, I pass the 2nd place Charger 440 R/T '70 going thru turn # 10, and end the lap 8 seconds behind the race leading '97 Camaro Z28. The IROC-Z Camaro '88 is close behind me in 4th place.

    At the end of lap # 10, I get the news that I'm 6 seconds behind the race leading '97 Camaro Z28.

    By the end of lap # 15, I'm right on the back-bumper of the race leading '97 Camaro Z28 after a 1.43.583 lap. The margin is only 0.456 seconds at the line. The 3rd place car is now the IROC-Z Camaro and he's about 6 seconds behind us.

    On lap # 18, I follow the first place '97 Camaro Z28 as he passes the 12th place Mustang V8 GT.

    On lap # 19, I follow the first place '97 Camaro Z28 as he passes the 11th place Cuda 440 Six Pack.

    On lap # 22, the race leading '97 Camaro Z28 slows down significantly going thru turn # 9, so I pull out and pass him for the race lead as we go thru turn # 10.

    By the end of lap # 23, I've opened up a 3 second lead over the '97 Camaro Z28 Coupe after a 1.44.722 lap.

    On lap # 27, I pass the Chevelle SS 454 and put him a lap down. My lead over the '97 Camaro Z28 has grown to 9 seconds.

    On lap # 28, I pass the Dodge Charger Super Bee 426 and put him a lap down.

    On lap # 29, I pass the Superbird '70 and put him a lap down.

    On lap # 31, I pass the 7th place Camaro SS '00 and put him a lap down.

    I pit after 34 laps for another set of SH tires and take on 25 liters of fuel. I had a 17 second lead over the '97 Camaro Z28 when I entered the pits. The 2nd place '97 Camaro follows me into the pits, so I see him stopping just as I get underway again.

    At the 2nd checkpoint on lap # 35, I get the news that I have a 38 second lead over the 2nd place IROC-Z Camaro Concept. The '97 Camaro Z28 has fallen back into 3rd place.

    At the end of lap # 37, I pass the 6th place Mercury Cougar XR-7 and put him a lap down.

    My fresh tires allow me to set a new lap record of 1.42.997 on lap # 38.

    After 45 laps, I still have a 36 second lead over the IROC-Z Camaro Concept.

    After 50 laps, my lead is 34 seconds over the IROC-Z Camaro.

    On lap # 55, I pass the 7th place Dodge Charger Super Bee 426 and end the lap with a 38 second lead over the IROC-Z Camaro.

    After 60 laps, I see that my lead over the 2nd place IROC-Z Camaro is now up to 42 seconds. My lead has grown recently even though I have pretty worn tires and have started to run laps in the 1.45.xxx range.

    My lead over the 2nd place IROC-Z Camaro is up to 45 seconds when I pit at the end of lap # 65 for another set of SH tires and 26 liters of fuel.

    At the 2nd checkpoint on lap # 66, I get the news that my lead over the 2nd place IROC-Z Camaro is down to 18 seconds.

    The IROC-Z Camaro must have pitted at the end of lap # 66, because as I begin lap # 67, I see that he has fallen back to 4th place in the race. The '97 Camaro Z28 Coupe has taken over 2nd place in the race, and is shown as being 36 seconds behind me. The '69 Corvette Convertible C3 is now in 3rd place.

    At the end of lap # 70, I see that I have a 46 second lead over the IROC-Z Camaro Concept. The '97 Camaro Z28 Coupe must have pitted because he's now back in 4th place in the race.

    After 75 laps, I still have a 45 second lead over the IROC-Z Camaro Concept. The IROC-Z Camaro must be running some fast laps at this point because I've had to set a new lap record of 1.42.881 on lap # 74 to maintain my margin over him.

    After 80 laps, my lead over the 2nd place IROC-Z Camaro is down to 40 seconds. The IROC-Z Camaro is gaining about 1 second a lap on me even though I'm running 1.44.xxx laps at this point.

    After 85 laps, my lead over the IROC-Z Camaro is back up to 41 seconds.

    On lap # 89, I get the news that the '69 Corvette Convertible C3 has muscled his way past the IROC-Z Camaro.

    After 90 laps I win another trophy!

    Race time was 2:38:37.171

    Finishing order
    ----------------
    1) me in the WRX
    2) '69 Corvette C3---- 43.452 secs back (BL 1.41.843)(pits 34/67)
    3) IROC-Z Camaro------ 45.654 secs back (BL 1.42.747)(pits 33/66)
    4) '97 Camaro Z28-----1m15.319 sec back (BL 1.43.218)(pits 34/69)
    5) Charger R/T '70----1 lap down (Best lap 1.44.000)(pits 31/62)
    6) Cougar XR-7--------1 lap down (Best lap 1.43.809)(pits 32/64)
    7) Camaro SS '00------2 laps down (Best lap 1.44.732)(pits 36/72)
    8) Charger Super Bee--2 laps down (Best lap 1.46.075)
    9) Chevelle 454-------3 laps down (Best lap 1.46.374)
    10) Superbird '70-----3 laps down (Best lap 1.46.226)
    11) Cuda 440 Six Pack--5 laps down (Best lap 1.49.664)
    12) Mustang V8 GT------5 laps down (Best lap 1.49.232)

    Post race notes:
    ----------------
    The top three cars in this grid are very evenly matched, so expect to see me running against this lineup again! The '97 Camaro Z28 Coupe fades over the last 10 laps or so, but up to then, he's equal to the other two cars. My WRX handles pretty well at Laguna, so quite a nice race. I just don't know why the Mustang V8 GT and the Cuda 440 Six Pack are in this race. They are just too slow in comparison to the rest of the field. At times it feels that I see them every five laps!

    Enjoy the racing!
    GTsail
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2012
  25. Dotini

    Dotini Premium

    Messages:
    14,042
    Location:
    United States
    Against grid #13 we achieved very similar results:

    In my race, the first AI, the Z28, finished at 2:39:59.189 (calculated)
    In yours, the first AI, the Stingray, came at 2:39:20.623 (calculated)
    while the finishing time of the Z28 '69 was 2:39:52.490 (calculated)

    Respectfully submitted,
    Steve
     
  26. axletramp

    axletramp Premium

    Messages:
    18,883
    Location:
    Jersey
    Another good run on SH's. :tup: Some helpful data there as well.

    Promise to do my next run tomorrow evening... just really busy at the moment. :grumpy:
     
  27. GTsail

    GTsail Premium

    Messages:
    2,456
    Location:
    United States
    Similar, but not as similar as I would expect.

    I wonder about the variation. We know that the AI will drive faster if its trying to catch another car (and they will wear out their tires slightly faster), and then the AI will drive slower if no other car is near. In both of our races, I don't think that the leading AI were close enough to our cars to influence the AI speed, since we both had decent enough leads, so I wonder about the overall variation in time. Is it just a random variation that PD has put in the game and we can expect to see this level of variation between each race against this same lineup? Or do you think something else might have influenced the AI speeds?

    Respectfully,
    GTsail
     
  28. Dotini

    Dotini Premium

    Messages:
    14,042
    Location:
    United States
    I think you summed it up well: some random variation, but always with the potential for competitor induced effects. I have a hunch that a restart - or two or three - will induce additional variations, but I don't know for sure.

    Respectfully,
    Steve
     
  29. Dotini

    Dotini Premium

    Messages:
    14,042
    Location:
    United States
    Another blow-out run over grid #13, this time for under 400PP. The GT 86 '12 is a very, very good car, even stock. However, due to its buttery soft rear springs and almost locked up stock differential (50-80-0), it chews up front tires real bad in stock configuration. Fortunately, it responds well to tuning, and I have included my setup so that anyone - even your kid sister - ought to be able to duplicate this easy run.

    Toyota GT 86 '12
    Horsepower: 194
    Weight: 1379kg
    PP value: 397/399
    Tires: SS
    P.Limiter: 85%

    Total time: 2:36:16.319
    MoV: Almost 2 laps over the Stingray '69 (FL 1:41.703) The IROC Z was 3rd and the Z28 '97 fourth.
    Fastest Lap: 1:41.119 (Lap 11)

    Against Grid #13
    ---------------------------------
    Camaro Z28 Coupe '97
    Superbird '70
    Cuda 440 Six Pack '71
    Charger 440 R/T '70
    Camaro IROC-Z Concept '88
    Mustang V8 GT Coupe Premium '07
    Player 1
    Chevelle SS 454 '70
    Camaro SS '00
    Corvette Stingray Convertible (C3) '69
    Charger Super Bee 426 Hemi '71
    Cougar XR-7 '67

    Abbreviated race description:
    Lap 1: Drop to 8th, but climb to 2th by end of lap. All passing is clean.
    Lap 3: Overtake the Z28 for 1st.
    Lap 11: Set my Fastest lap of the day, at 1:41.119
    Lap 30: Pit for new SS tires with wear almost to 50% on the right front. All the others are worn to about the 60% mark.
    Lao 37: Lap the Z28, so I'm a lap up on the entire field.
    Lap 60: Pit for tires. All tires are worn to about the 60% (remaining) mark.
    Lap 72: Stingray accedes into 2nd.
    Lap 90: Finish half the straightaway short of being 2 laps up on the 2nd place Stingray '69. :crazy:

    Notes: The Toyota GT 86 '12 seems to be one of those "gifted" cars, performing exceptionally well for its PP level. The following is a decent basic setup for Laguna Seca, with fairly balanced tire wear and no tendency to spin out on SS tires. My car is nearly new, with only 379 miles on the odo.

    Toyota GT 86 '12 for Laguna Seca 200mi, PP 399
    HP: 194
    PL: 85%
    Top speed setting: 119mph
    LSD: 10-40-20
    Brakes 6/4
    Ballast: 149kg at +44, 48/52 weight distribution
    Ride Height: -15/-15
    Springs: 10.5/10.5
    Extension: 6/6
    Compression: 5/5
    ARBs: 4/4
    Camber: 1.5/1.5
    Toe: 0.00/-0.05 <---toe out at rear

    Respectfully submitted,
    Steve
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2012
  30. GTsail

    GTsail Premium

    Messages:
    2,456
    Location:
    United States
    Nice run with the Toyota Dotini!

    I notice that your finishing order this time matched mine, with the '69 Corvette finishing in 2nd place and with the '97 Camaro Z28 finishing in 4th. I wonder what order axletramp will get, when he tries this lineup!

    The total race time for the best of the AI this time was about 2:39:35 if I have my maths correct. This just about splits the difference between our two earlier runs.

    Quite interesting.
    GTsail