learned to drive a stick today

[Bones Brigade]

As I said before, there's more to driving than laptimes and shift times.

right, i was just using the first example i could think of. which ultimately doesn't matter, since no one has a problem with dual clutch.

 

[Joey D]

I
And if Joey's Cooper can push itself around at 2 grand, I'll take one! I also now believe his fuel economy claims.

To that you have to drive very easy, which negates all the fun of the car. But it's the same with all cars, you either have to choose sportiness or economy. I tend to stick more with the economy side because it's a public road and where am I going? I would like to see how the car handles under sporty conditions but I haven't found an autocross event/track day that is open when I have a weekend free.

 

[mustangGT90210]

My BMW's 1.8L can drive below 2000RPM all day, unless you hit the highway. I picked up the habit after living with a host family in Germany, where I noticed that they short-shifted their Rover 1.4L all the time. It's just a matter of not giving it so much throttle that the engine starts to shudder -- even then, I still have enough accelerative power to get ahead of most other traffic in my town.

I have yet to find a car that shudders with too much throttle as opposed to too little...

 

[the Interceptor]

I have yet to find a car that shudders with too much throttle as opposed to too little...

A lot of N/A engines start to shudder when the revs are too low and you give it too much throttle. Mine does.

 

[Tornado]

I have yet to find a car that shudders with too much throttle as opposed to too little...

Dad's car does at sub-2K.

 

[mustangGT90210]

A lot of N/A engines start to shudder when the revs are too low and you give it too much throttle. Mine does.

Oh see I thought he meant taking off from a line. I have never had any car shudder with good amount of throttle in it. I've only had them do it when the revs were too low and there wasn't enought throttle.

Is the shuddering bad on anything in the car? Besides loose interior panels...

 

[the Interceptor]

Oh see I thought he meant taking off from a line. I have never had any car shudder with good amount of throttle in it. I've only had them do it when the revs were too low and there wasn't enought throttle.

Is the shuddering bad on anything in the car? Besides loose interior panels...

The shudder occurs when you're running the engine in too low revs to actually maintain the speed. Example: going uphill at 15 mph in 3rd. What you should do is drop a gear and accelerate. But if you stay in gear and try to cure it with more throttle, there will be said shudder from the engine, because you force it to do something it can't do.

It's not exactly good for the engine, I don't know what bad it does though. I'm pretty certain one of the automotive geeks of this forum can explain it in detail.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

The shudder occurs when you're running the engine in too low revs to actually maintain the speed. Example: going uphill at 15 mph in 3rd. What you should do is drop a gear and accelerate. But if you stay in gear and try to cure it with more throttle, there will be said shudder from the engine, because you force it to do something it can't do.

It's not exactly good for the engine, I don't know what bad it does though. I'm pretty certain one of the automotive geeks of this forum can explain it in detail.

Also happens when you go from 2nd to 5th...

Which I've done, sadly.

 

[gibson]

For wheelin' I would still go with a stick, lower ratios than an auto, plus if you need to spin your tires, you dont need much touqe to

 

[mustangGT90210]

For wheelin' I would still go with a stick, lower ratios than an auto, plus if you need to spin your tires, you dont need much touqe to

I'm not sure if they are lower ratios, but there isn't a torque converter and you can manipulate with so much clutch in, so much throttle. I've never done any "real" offroading, just driving an F150 through a buncha pastures.

If you stab the pedal you can do a dirtout (bad pun for burnout, with smoke replaced by dirt) It's an auto, and for what I even do dodging trees and fences in those pastures, a stick would make that a serious chore I think.

 

[The Porko]

I have yet to find a car that shudders with too much throttle as opposed to too little...

My Cappuccino shudders at 60km/h in fourth if i put the foot down. But thats due to the mechincal diff and new gear set (it didnt do it when i had the open diff)

Although i got the admit another advantage of an auto is towing although i would still buy a manual lol

 

[Perfect Balance]

My Cappuccino shudders at 60km/h in fourth if i put the foot down. But thats due to the mechincal diff and new gear set (it didnt do it when i had the open diff)

Although i got the admit another advantage of an auto is towing although i would still buy a manual lol

Towing is better with a manual, but, POST PICS OF YOUR CAR. NOW.

 

[The Porko]

It really depends on the clutch your using...its easy (especially with a stock clutch) to burn the clutch. With an auto you dont have that problem. There are photos floating around from back in 2006 from when i first purchased it.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=77059

I havent posted on GT Planet for awhile but im back!

When i get the net back at home i will set up a new thread with it or i might just update the old one. Just this year i installed nardi sports steering wheel, coilovers, strut brace, mechincal diff and hks evc boost controller. Also did a few skid pans and track days this year too!

 

[G.T]

Heh I don't drive but I can see the appeal of automatics. Pretty much like people have mentioned, it's easier to drive. I remember my Dad's X-Type 3.0 under calm acceleration would rev up to 2500 before it shifted (readlines at 7000). But I remember once for some reason it didn't shift up and hard acceleration happened from 1500rpm and it wasn't struggling at all and accelerated quite well... I suppose you don't notice these things if you have an automatic. Plus, there was at least a 2 second delay when you overtake a full throttle from 5th into 2nd since it doesn't skip gears - in a manual you can. Not sure if other auto boxes do this though.

In the UK generally people don't go for autos in cheaper cars because it's a £1500-£2000 option, and the fuel economy drops considerably. That's why my Dad's gone back to a manual again.

Speaking of which, Honda's 2.2 diesel can accelerate in 5th from 25mph absolutely fine (if slowly) from 1100rpm..which surprises me.

 

[Brett]

That does not surprise me too much, especially considering it is a diesel. I am sure the car revs to only about 5000 rpm. It also probably makes a boat load of torque at 1100 rpm.

 

[Leonidae]

I've never driven other than manuals. I had a chance to drive Opel Omega MV6 ( Cadillac Catera in US ) for few hundred km's, and despite the grunt I nearly fell asleep. cruise and automatic.. I'm not old or fat enough to be happy with those. ( I'm joking..) My sisters car (Opel Astra 1.6 wagon'95, 306k km on it) isn't a driving enthusiasts dream, but I'd take that over Merc SLR. my dislike towards automatics goes THAT far.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

For wheelin' I would still go with a stick, lower ratios than an auto, plus if you need to spin your tires, you dont need much touqe to

I'm not sure if they are lower ratios, but there isn't a torque converter and you can manipulate with so much clutch in, so much throttle. I've never done any "real" offroading, just driving an F150 through a buncha pastures.

If you stab the pedal you can do a dirtout (bad pun for burnout, with smoke replaced by dirt) It's an auto, and for what I even do dodging trees and fences in those pastures, a stick would make that a serious chore I think.

A stick makes 'wheelin a pain. Having manual control over what gear you're in does not. That said, an automatic will generally let you select what gear to go into, and you can almost always select low gear. So automatics win. Off-road, you WILL need to two-foot it at times, and you can't do that with a stick very easily.

Towing is better with a manual, but, POST PICS OF YOUR CAR. NOW.

Towing is better with a stick IF SAID STICK CAN HANDLE IT.

The Ford/Mazda M5OD is an excellent example of a stick that doesn't like towing. Doesn't matter if it's the light duty R1 or the R2.

I've never driven other than manuals. I had a chance to drive Opel Omega MV6 ( Cadillac Catera in US ) for few hundred km's, and despite the grunt I nearly fell asleep. cruise and automatic.. I'm not old or fat enough to be happy with those. ( I'm joking..) My sisters car (Opel Astra 1.6 wagon'95, 306k km on it) isn't a driving enthusiasts dream, but I'd take that over Merc SLR. my dislike towards automatics goes THAT far.

It's no fun doing 200+ mile highway trips in a pile of garbage with a stick and no cruise. Either let me lock and load with cruise, a comfy ride, and a slushbox, or give me a "fun" car. Like a Mustang. Or I'll take all of the above.

As to the Astra V SLR bit... I'd take the Astra too, but not because the Merc has an automatic. You can have more fun in a car you honestly don't give a crap about than you can in something you're afraid to scratch.

 

[Leonidae]

I wouldn't be afraid to scratch a merc.. because if I had afford to get one, I also would have afford to get it fixed by horrified mechanics at a dealership..

 

[the Interceptor]

A stick makes 'wheelin a pain. Having manual control over what gear you're in does not. That said, an automatic will generally let you select what gear to go into, and you can almost always select low gear. So automatics win.

Still, changing the gear is the only option you have with an autobox, where you can do much more things inbetween with a manual.

It's no fun doing 200+ mile highway trips in a pile of garbage with a stick and no cruise. Either let me lock and load with cruise, a comfy ride, and a slushbox, or give me a "fun" car. Like a Mustang. Or I'll take all of the above.

There's an inherent problem with cruise and an autobox on longer drives: you get tired. I've experienced this in person, that after a while, you just loose concentration and numbly coast along, which might be not ideal for reacting quickly when something happens in front of you.

For the same reason, German Autobahns were built with a lot of bends instead of just making them dead straight. When you drive bends you have to pay attention to driving, so you will be more concentrated.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

Still, changing the gear is the only option you have with an autobox, where you can do much more things inbetween with a manual.

Such as?

I can think of plenty of situations where a stick would get you screwed. None where it would TRULY be beneficial.

There's an inherent problem with cruise and an autobox on longer drives: you get tired. I've experienced this in person, that after a while, you just loose concentration and numbly coast along, which might be not ideal for reacting quickly when something happens in front of you.

For the same reason, German Autobahns were built with a lot of bends instead of just making them dead straight. When you drive bends you have to pay attention to driving, so you will be more concentrated.

Without cruise, the same thing will happen. Cruising at 70mph through Nowhere, Nebraska is cruising at 70mph through nowhere. If you're cocking about, randomly winding out to 120 and backing down, then it's different. But whether you're controlling the throttle or not, it doesn't make any difference how quickly you'll get bored/tired. Having cruise is just more comfortable. If you're in the city, you'll be aware anyway, and a slushbox is more comfortable.

 

[the Interceptor]

Such as?

I can think of plenty of situations where a stick would get you screwed. None where it would TRULY be beneficial.

You can for example control the way you let the clutch kick in. Under heavy acceleration you might want to accept a rough gearchange for gaining speed, while you probably want to coast smoothly to a halt on a traffic light, easing the clutch down through the gears. With an autobox you just change, and you'll have to live with how good (or bad) it will do just that.

Without cruise, the same thing will happen. Cruising at 70mph through Nowhere, Nebraska is cruising at 70mph through nowhere. If you're cocking about, randomly winding out to 120 and backing down, then it's different. But whether you're controlling the throttle or not, it doesn't make any difference how quickly you'll get bored/tired. Having cruise is just more comfortable. If you're in the city, you'll be aware anyway, and a slushbox is more comfortable.

If you set the cruise to some speed, the car maintains said velocity at any time, and you'll just have to steer the car (given there is something that needs steering input ahead). Without the cruise, you'll constantly be altering the accelerator pedal to maintain the speed limit (given you pay attention to such things) during elevations and slopes. That means you'll need to pay attention to what you're doing there, which means that you'll concentrate more.

 

[Bones Brigade]

It's no fun doing 200+ mile highway trips in a pile of garbage with a stick and no cruise. Either let me lock and load with cruise, a comfy ride, and a slushbox, or give me a "fun" car. Like a Mustang. Or I'll take all of the above.

one of the most fun experiences of my life was driving from seattle to los angeles (1100 miles, and then back!) in a 97 ford escort. no cruise. manual trans.

 

[Tornado]

I can think of plenty of situations where a stick would get you screwed. None where it would TRULY be beneficial.

Agreed. During the winter months I off-road all the time, and I imagine a stick would just be too much of a hassle.

 

[G.T]

That does not surprise me too much, especially considering it is a diesel. I am sure the car revs to only about 5000 rpm. It also probably makes a boat load of torque at 1100 rpm.

Well on most turbodiesels the turbo doesn't usually spool until ~1500rpm, which makes sense since lots of reviews complain about the lack of power below that rev range. That's why I thought it was odd.

 

[Rotary Junkie]

You can for example control the way you let the clutch kick in. Under heavy acceleration you might want to accept a rough gearchange for gaining speed, while you probably want to coast smoothly to a halt on a traffic light, easing the clutch down through the gears. With an autobox you just change, and you'll have to live with how good (or bad) it will do just that.

If you set the cruise to some speed, the car maintains said velocity at any time, and you'll just have to steer the car (given there is something that needs steering input ahead). Without the cruise, you'll constantly be altering the accelerator pedal to maintain the speed limit (given you pay attention to such things) during elevations and slopes. That means you'll need to pay attention to what you're doing there, which means that you'll concentrate more.

I was talking about off-road, where there's lots of steep inclines and places where you kinda WANT to be able to two-foot it.

True enough about the cruise bit... True enough.

 

[the Interceptor]

I was talking about off-road, where there's lots of steep inclines and places where you kinda WANT to be able to two-foot it.

Missed that bit then, sorry!

 

[Wolfe]

It's no fun doing 200+ mile highway trips in a pile of garbage with a stick and no cruise.

I drove 3000+ miles in the span of a week in a rusty '84 Renault Encore with a stick and no cruise, never got tired of driving, and had a blast. I plan to make the same trip next year, and even if my junker has working cruise control, I doubt I'll use it.

It's fine if you prefer to just sit back and hold the steering wheel straight, but the economical side of me hates the fact that cruise control wastes gas lifting off downhill and accelerating uphill (rather than gaining speed on the downhill to use less throttle on the uphill), and the speed demon side of me would rather slow down to the speed limit when approaching the crest of a hill, scan the area ahead for speed traps, and then speed until I reach the next crest. If I'm outpacing traffic, I also save the excessive speeding for the open spaces between groups of cars. My driving habits are pretty dynamic on the freeway -- it helps keep me awake and focused, and I get to my destination sooner.

I was going to say that comparing a manual and automatic in freeway driving is a moot point because you're not shifting gears, but actually, it would have made a difference with that Renault. I don't know if it was the ancient engine/transmission mounts or just the design of the engine bay, but it had some pretty nasty torque steer just between being on-throttle and off-throttle. With the vague throttle control of an automatic, it might have been unsettling to deal with.

 

[1X83Z]

I'm surprised to learn cruise is such an issue for some. I did 1,600 miles in two days cross-country and I don't even know how to actuate the cruise in my car.

 

[mustangGT90210]

I just learned how to use cruise yesterday, actually.

So weird! I doubt I could have gotten tired, it was kinda big brother-ish...

 

[Brett]

I used my cruise control today. I have used mine pretty much any time I am on an extended trip on the highway when I can cruise at a consistent speed.