Lemons to Le Mans Tuesday Series

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I wish I could have kept consistent last night would have probably put me up one place
 
chuyler, got it. The spreadsheet should be updated then. How come you went with mid-range? Would not the high-range turbo be better in the long run? Are you thinking of buying the high-range later?

Dikarika, thanks for clarifying. I was trying to remember but did not recall an incident. Yeah, after my 2nd stop I suddenly could see you far ahead and that gave me some motivation to run mid 1:09 to low 1:10 for the rest of the race.

The Silvia's 60/40 weight distribution made it understeer too much though. I had more front tire wear.

The most entertaining part of the race for me, was when I was running with Cujo. If only he had pitted the same time...
 
st1sj
chuyler, got it. The spreadsheet should be updated then. How come you went with mid-range? Would not the high-range turbo be better in the long run? Are you thinking of buying the high-range later?
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The high-rpm turbo put me over 375. 377 I think. Funny part is that i tested it and it was slower. The high-rpm turbo really needs to be mated to a close ratio gear box. Since the MR2's gearing is tuned for a top speed of about 155 mph, I was getting massive turbo lag in every gear followed by a very short burst of acceleration. The gears were simply too tall. In contrast, the mid-rpm turbo gave me a little less max hp but over a much wider power band. As long as i shifted before the turbo ran out of steam, I had decent acceleration. As I mentioned above, I will consider the high-rpm turbo toward the end of the season but I'll have to experiment with other pricey mods to see what works best with my given budget.
 
Dikarika
Just to know, that wasn't snoopy, that was me. I was pretty upset about it because miata and I were running close lap times. After the bump/recovery/damage, I couldn't hang with him. Snoopy actually started gaining until I made a pit to repair.

That's racing though. No Biggie. :)
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I'm terribly sorry, sir. I was racing geezer and didn't want to lose any more time to getting lapped again, but I will try to remember to respect that I'm lapped traffic and need to get out of the way.
 
I just upgrade and go. I dont look at shift points and I use an automatic....then the magic happens. If I had the time I would look at all the gearing. I guess using a wheel would make the shifting easier, but with the standard controller its much easier and less stressful to use the auto.
 
dabneyd
I'm terribly sorry, sir. I was racing geezer and didn't want to lose any more time to getting lapped again, but I will try to remember to respect that I'm lapped traffic and need to get out of the way.
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No need to be sorry. Lap traffic is part of the game...and can be part of your strategy too.

If neither car is in a battle for position it is usually best to allow the lapping car an easy pass by taking the outside line and giving it to them. Make it obvious or speak up about letting them by over the mic...but don't challenge to get the position back after you let them by. Try to grab a little bit of their draft if it is safe to do so and then let them go on their way.

If two cars are about to lap you and they are battling for position and you are not, it is usually wise to get out of the way much sooner. Instead of waiting for a straight, go wide on the next turn to let both cars by easily. Don't brake super early or do anything unpredictable, just carve out a wider turn so they know the inside is open. Take it easy exiting the turn to allow both cars to pass by if you can. Obviously the lead car would love for you to let him by and block the 2nd car. No one is stopping you from doing that...but be prepared for that 2nd car to try aggressive moves to get by you without losing time to the first car.

If one car is about to lap two cars that are battling for position, the lapping car needs to use more caution. Hold back a little to assess the situation and try to find a way around the cars which doesn't interfere with their battle. Sometimes the chasing car will welcome your presence as an opportunity to draft around their opponent. Similar to the previous scenario, it is usually best to get by without affecting the battle but that isn't always possible.
 
Not sorry about being lapped; it was bound to happen in that tank (also why it's painted matte green), I'm sorry about the bad move that I made.
 
No cash for me? Are you kidding me? This series requires a lot more strategy and a lot less ability than people may think. I knew I needed to get 9th or worse one race to max my car and I chose this one to get it over with. I ran 9th for 50+ laps then someone is disconnected and I'm a place ahead of where I wanted to be. I raced until there was less than 10 seconds on the clock. The race had ended. If anything, I'm unhappy that I lost 2 extra positions by sitting ( I didnt know geezer and dabney were leass than 10 seconds behind me.)

I thought garris would catch me...I spent 10 laps texting and messaging BTK waiting to be caught by the Talon which was definately faster and you didnt seem to gain. If I wanted to I would have pitted to have you pass me and no one would be the wiser, but I hung in till the first racer crossed the line and then an additional 2 minutes and 50 second till I stopped.
 
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I think garris is alone in thinking you shouldn't get rewards. If that's your strategy then so be it...I could care less if someone sandbags a race here and there. In fact, I'd like to see someone do it so that we can analyze the strategy afterward and hopefully prevent any sort of sandbag strategy from working the next season. Personally I would like to see everyone fighting for every point every race...but once the system is in place and strategies are figured out, we can't start changing the rules because we don't like someone's strategy.

The bigger question is where to place the driver who was disconnected.
 
Exactly Chuyler. As grenade and I were talking last night, we're not one (and we assume others are the same) to toss a race, but the reward system made it priority. We didnt make the rules, but the rewards are so skewed now that getting the most out of the cars requires a lot more than last season. I dont want to get to Le Sarthe having gotten 3rd-6th every race only to be in 7th in the standings with never having earned enough money to afford half the mods available.
 
I agree with Huyler on the points/rewards. The rules are in place and should not be changed mid-stream. Tanking is a legitimate strategy.

As for disconnection, this is my recommendation:

If you start the race and park it, you should get what the game awards you.

If you start the race and is disconnected, you should get last place.

If you do not start the race, you should get last place.

The reason for my recommendation is to (1) reward people who stick around but have to stop due to lag issues (2) reward people who actually finish the race--disconnection sucks, but we cannot predict what the future would have happened had there been no disconnection, no matter how fast the car/driver is. In this series, there is at least a silver lining for disconnection if you get last place, ie, most credits. No real race series would award someone who did not finish, where they were when they dropped out.
 
diabolicwyvern
Exactly Chuyler. As grenade and I were talking last night, we're not one (and we assume others are the same) to toss a race, but the reward system made it priority. We didnt make the rules, but the rewards are so skewed now that getting the most out of the cars requires a lot more than last season. I dont want to get to Le Sarthe having gotten 3rd-6th every race only to be in 7th in the standings with never having earned enough money to afford half the mods available.
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To build up your car to le Mans speeds, I'd say yes, you have to lose a few races. However, if your goal isn't to win le Mans, I think the rewards will allow you to build your car up enough to gain points when you need them. In theory, you should only need that extra cash when you or your car is under performing. Sandbagging a few early technical courses should put you in a position to be extremely fast on the straight line courses. However, banking on winning a specific race is a very risky strategy. You simply don't know how quickly other cars are going to gain performance points. Those cheap mods can be just as effective as the expensive ones.
 
st1sj
I agree with Huyler on the points/rewards. The rules are in place and should not be changed mid-stream. Tanking is a legitimate strategy.

As for disconnection, this is my recommendation:

If you start the race and park it, you should get what the game awards you.

If you start the race and is disconnected, you should get last place.

If you do not start the race, you should get last place.

The reason for my recommendation is to (1) reward people who stick around but have to stop due to lag issues (2) reward people who actually finish the race--disconnection sucks, but we cannot predict what the future would have happened had there been no disconnection, no matter how fast the car/driver is. In this series, there is at least a silver lining for disconnection if you get last place, ie, most credits. No real race series would award someone who did not finish, where they were when they dropped out.
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I still think a case-by-case basis is needed with a margin for error of 1 to 2 places given their status and the status of surrounding cars at the time of the disconnect. Giving someone last place because of a network issue might be true to real life...but it doesn't help with the progression of the series. My goal is to make this similar to shuffle racing where faster drivers are penalized with slower cars. ...but if a faster driver is disconnected, the next race their car will be so quick that they won't even be racing anyone...they'll be out in front with absolutely no contention. Who wants to do that for 75 laps?

If this were any other type of series, I would completely agree with you...but when placement affects the next race, i think special consideration has to be applied to keep things fair and the competition tight.
 
chuyler, I understand the desire to equalize the field and fully support it. However, in your example, the winner's advantage would disappear after one race, because he would have 0 credits after winning that race. Last night, for example, the winning Miata was pretty much running by himself the whole race. Whether it was fun or not, that is subjective. But at Monza, his advantage would likely dissipate because he won.

Anyway, disconnection happens but it is not that frequent, so it would be unlikely that a faster car/driver is disconnected 2 or 3 times in the season. As long as there are no concurrent use of Internet competing with PS3, disconnection should be rare.
 
chuyler1
Personally I would like to see everyone fighting for every point every race...but once the system is in place and strategies are figured out, we can't start changing the rules because we don't like someone's strategy.
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Yes, I absolutely hate the idea of anyone sandbagging. I agree with Huyler that this should be analyzed and prevented in the future. The idea of fastest lap is one of, I'm sure, dozens of ideas that might be better than we have today. I agree, no need to change the rules in the middle of the season.

But, I wanted to mention my idea because by agreeing to give Diabolic more money than he deserves, you also agree to give me more money than I deserve. I'm not a good driver, but my car was already competitive at Tsukuba. I would dare say that if any of you were driving my car at Monza you'd win first place with time enough for tea. The parity system is broken.

How will that affect things in the long run, I don't know. Yes, I'd get less money at Monza, but I can only put so much money into the car before it tops out.

Huyler started all of this, and my vision is probably different. I'm not like most people. I don't care about winning by laps. If the race is decided in the first two corners, then what was the point. I want a race that is close the entire time. It is the journey moreso than the destination.

I'll try to review the cars that are shared and update the spreadsheet tonight and republish it.
 
st1sj
Anyway, disconnection happens but it is not that frequent, so it would be unlikely that a faster car/driver is disconnected 2 or 3 times in the season. As long as there are no concurrent use of Internet competing with PS3, disconnection should be rare.
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We've had two races and two disconnects. That isn't 100%, but... you can legally advertise that it is.

Again, I will err on the side of those on the field. But no one thinks they would've caught Pyxen, so he gets seventh.

He said he was just about to get sixth. Too bad his connection didn't make it.

As I've said before though, I don't mind awarding extra points for those that actually finish the race (and for those that set the pole, avoid wrecks, or anything else we want to encourage). Things we can discuss for inclusion in the next iteration.
 
Different definition. I would define 100% differently, ie, all gamer got disconnected or same gamer got disconnected in all the races. One gamer per week is not a trend especially since not the same gamer.
 
st1sj
Different definition. I would define 100% differently.
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So would I, but that is the beauty of statistics in public media. You can literally make the numbers say anything.
 
Thanks garris.. I appreciate the confidence in my abilities, and #7.

So since I haven't had a chance to check in since last night, a few comments on my performance last night..

Even though I had my doubts about the G20, I can honestly say I thoroughly enjoyed driving it.

Except for the odd time where my worn down tires and over-calculated drive out of a corner, sending me slightly off the track combined to send me sprawling across the grass @ the last hairpin only to go careening across the back straight into a wall, narrowly missing another car (I actually hit the gas as I re-entered the track to try to make the gap between you - sorry it didn't work out completely..I imagine it could have been worse), I think it went quite well! That was a very long sentence. btw - I'd love to see the 'incident' from your cockpit/bumper view.. :)

huyler
On lap 7, in his effort to catch back up, he went flying across the nose of my car in the final hairpin. It scared the crap out of me like an effing deer jumping out of the woods. Gave me significant suspension damage which slowed me down about .7 to 1.2 seconds per lap. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRNA2aodFKk
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Only had 2 pits, which was a big plus...one due to damage from the crash above.

Cujo - thanks for the battle @ start 2.0 (or was that start 1.0?), I managed to get myself all twisted up at the end of the lap when I spun out into the sand..*sigh* Would have been nice to have continued until we all strung out a bit, but I'm sure I would have ended up binning it anyways. ;)

Garris - thanks for providing such welcoming gaps between you and Paul Bunyon there.. made getting by easier!

Onto the next!
 
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I have my own sandbagging technique called I'm a crappy driver, others should try that, really exciting.

If people want to tank races ill glady take the points. Chuyler is right, you have no idea how this will turn out and in the end u think it will prove costly...
 
I also have no problem with sandbagging. I'd like to see some rule made about DNF and points/money. Something consistent, but not a reward. Sandbagging to last place should pay more than anything, but no points. However, a DNF should be scored on a low points/moderate reward instead of last place held. This is to keep from gaming the payout system. Although sandbagging is a method to this, it requires a high level of dedication to losing.

And that's something we all can respect.
 
Just noticed:

Both pink cars are tied for overall fourth place. Coincidence?





Uh, yeah, probably.
 
Dikarika
Both pink cars are tied for overall fourth place.
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You and Snoopy are tied in points for fourth. I doubt the tie holds, so it'll probably be moot. If we were forced to go with a tie breaker (not that it matters), I would point out that he has only won 12,500 Cr. That is 5,000 Cr. less than you.

I let the replay run through cause I was curious about lap time numbers. Admittedly, there isn't much to be read into these lap time numbers. It doesn't matter how fast a lap you can put down. It matters how many of them you can do. In my car, on this track, a set of tires is going to produce less than half below 1:10. So even if I can put in a single lap faster than someone else, I can't put in but so many of them, and I can't do a one-pit strategy. Clean driving is so very important.

Still, I wanted to see.

SLC_VR6_V-DUB: 1:08.329 (fastest)
miata_1: 108.718 (second)
Dikarika: 109.024 (fourth)
snooopykuan: 109.456 (sixth)
chuyler1: 1:10.065 (ninth)
Cujo940: 1:08.762 (third)
sl3ightaru: 1:09.536 (seventh)
dabneyd: 1:10.836 (eleventh)
GeezerG123: 1:10.090 (tenth)
a_garris: 1:09.065 (fifth)
Diabolicwyvern: 1:09.743 (eighth)
MNLumberjack: 1:11.982 (twelfth)
 
Hey everyone, Was busy all day and I check the thread and I'm 3 pages behind. Geez, it was busy on here today. Tsukuba is a track I know very well and I run the FMSC series so I'm very familiar with a miata chassis. My pp I believe after my 15k for a DNS last week was 412. Dont quote me on that. I will get it shared Vol. Like I said I've been busy all day.

I had tremendous consistency last night which even surprised me. I had a blast in the race. Looking forward to next weeks race. I for sure will not be in control like last night. Draft will have a much bigger factor which can still keep us packed up. I hope so anyways.
 
Interesting to see the fastest lap time. Thanks for sitting through the replay to post that, Garris.

Looks like Huyler was the most consistent. He took a slow car and placed it higher than it should. Impressive.
 
Interesting to see the lap times. I got past Sl3ight and Cujo when their tires gave out. I also ran the first half of the race with damage on two corners. My best lap in qualifying and practice was only 1:10.2 so that best lap must have been when i was getting a little draft up the back straight.

There is a good 5 seconds to be found on the hairpins if you hit them right. I learned this during the GT Academy after analyzing ghost replays. Trail braking is essential for getting the car to rotate at a higher speed...which is why the FF cars fell off pace so quickly. Once you lose front grip it is very difficult to maintain speed without understeering.
 
chuyler1
Interesting to see the lap times. I got past Sl3ight and Cujo when their tires gave out. I also ran the first half of the race with damage on two corners. My best lap in qualifying and practice was only 1:10.2 so that best lap must have been when i was getting a little draft up the back straight.

There is a good 5 seconds to be found on the hairpins if you hit them right. I learned this during the GT Academy after analyzing ghost replays. Trail braking is essential for getting the car to rotate at a higher speed...which is why the FF cars fell off pace so quickly. Once you lose front grip it is very difficult to maintain speed without understeering.
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This post tells me my differential and settings must have been a factor. My lil' FF 206 had great tire wear and almost no drop off until after lap 30. My laps were consistent and quick enough.

I'm hoping to get enough power (my 2500 is going toward lvl 1 engine upgrade) for Monza to be competative.
 
Just saw the updated standings. I feel pretty good considering I know my car will be quick at all of the remaining tracks. Now whether I practice enough to drive it quick..... Well that remains to be witnessed. I'll be mulling over several upgrade choices tonight before the C30 races!
 
Yet another photo post from the unofficial series photographer:

A Sea of Eager Backsides:


Surprise Pitstop for Garris:


Craziness for Chuyler and Pyxen:


Cujo Rydin Durtay:


Scars of War:


Uploaded with ImageShack.us
 
Nice pics! I'd still love to see Huylers cockpit view of my "unexpected visit" above.

If I had the replay saved, I'd do it myself :P

Dabneys volvo looks like a hearse in the B&W.
 
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