Less Japanese cars, more regional cars

[Exorcet]

LIST

If we ignore running down the list to a realistic number, you could add

Cadillac Sixteen Concept

Every Chaparral ever given their uniqueness

Chevy Cobalt SS
Chevy Corvette Z06 Z07 package
Chevy Z06-R

Dodge Viper ACR (99-02)
Dodge Viper GT2
Dodge Viper SRT-10 ACR '10
Dodge Viper SRT-10 ACR-X
Dodge Viper Competition Coupe

Devon GT-X

Hennessey Venom (this is not a Viper)

Katech Z06 Clubsport

Molser MT900S
Molser MT900 GTR
Molser Raptor

Panoz Esperante Road Car

Rossion Q1

Saleen S7 Competition
Various Saleen Mustangs

And there would still be more. Especially since I pretty much ignored what happened before the 80's except Chaparral.

it is true that american cars are crap. Sorry but it's true.

At what? Being slow and boring?

 

[NISMO_GTR_]

Need more nissans

 

[tpark103]

...

Why?

Originally Posted by Earth
Needed Cadillacs
Cadillac Eldorado 6.0L '83 (or previous gen)


I not sure about the whole ghetto cruiser reply. I do think that variety anything different, would be welcomed.

 

[cggorman]

Of course. We need far more 25 year old Japanese hatchbacks instead, because they are so much more interesting than any of the things Earth just posted.

👍

 

[CorvetteConquer]

Don't get me started with Cadillac!

Arguably the best American luxury brand and only ONE Cadillac has been in a GT game. And it's a damn standard concept car.

Still cannot believe Sweden's supercar manufacturer goes unrecognized in GT (Koesnigegg).

GT doesn't need every hyper car like Forza, but it needs some. It needs to fairly represent the many regional waves that are crashing onto the large automotive shore.

 

[SagarisGTB]

Look, I'm not saying there's not plenty of American cars that should be in GT6, I'm just saying there's more Japanese cars that should be in GT6. Which is no slight to the US; as I said before, only Italy and Germany can match Japanese sports car offerings in terms of number.

Pontiac Firebird. Pontiac Fiero. Pontiac Sunbird Turbo. Dodge Daytona. Dodge Omni GLH. Shelby CSX. Studebaker Avanti. Oldsmobile Cutlass Calais. Ford SVT Contour. I could think of more if I wanted to actually start looking.

I'll give you the Fiero and Daytona. I didn't omit them on purpose, those are good shouts. Firebird is a rebodied Camaro, if you're going to jump on me for including the BRZ and 86.

Avanti is not a sports car and the rest are "hot" versions of economy cars. The counter argument to those are a plethora of "hot" Civics, Sentras, Mirages, Galants, Starlets, Mazdas, etc. We could go forever with those, so I tried to compare pure sports cars, which are more focused and arguably better additions to GT games.

or how you are deciding that American cars should keep a lower percentage than Japanese ones because of an apparent lack of dedicated sports cars when half of the GT5 JDM car list is sedans and economy cars.

No.

The Japanese cars that I want in the game are the sportscars and race cars. The "everyday" Japanese cars interest just as little as their American counterparts. I don't think the Cruze or Taurus should be a priority, nor should the Accord or Camry.

As opposed to the storied, multi-generational history of the Toyota 2000GT, Mazda RX-8, Mitsubishi FTO, Lexus LFA, Toyobaru BreezeFreeze (which you interestingly listed twice), AE86, Beat, Cappuccino, AZ-1 and Copen?

Right, focus on those when I named several that have as many or more generations than any American sports car. Think Silvia, Nissan Z, Lancer Evo, Impreza WRX Sti, Celica, Skyline GT-R/GT-R. I just see more generations of Japanese sports cars on average. There's three generations of MR2, 1 generation of Fiero. There's four generations of Integra, five generations of Prelude, 1 generation of Dodge Daytona. Three generation of MX-5, 1 generation of Solstice.

I'm not trying to discredit American cars, I just see far more cars from Japan that I want to see in GT6.

America includes two continents and many countries, not the US alone.

Other than Mastretta, I can't name any non-US sportscars from the Americas. I'm open to being educated about them, but I don't imagine there will be more than a handful of them.

Mosler is missing, SSC is missing, Callaway is missing (but is in GT5), AMC is missing, Devon is missing, Fisker is missing, Panoz is missing (no GT5 road cars), Tesla is missing (but is in GT5). That doesn't include many defunct makers like Vector. Many of those you included are very multi generational. PD could probably exchange Corvettes for Skylines in a 1:1 to ratio and have a fairly varied line up with goo diversity.

Mosler, SSC, Callaway, Vector, Tesla, and Panoz: Ok, but we are talking about one or two cars from each.

But none of the US's modern LMP's are included, which is a bit unfair. The US doesn't even have some iconic race cars like the C6R, S7-R, and Viper CC.

Aside from the Dallara SP1 (Chrysler LMP), Cadillac Northstar LMP and Panoz GTR-1 (which is in the game), which LMPs are you referring to? I'd like to see the Cadillac and the Panoz in the game too, but there's many more recent Japanese prototypes I'd also like to see as well. Besides the ones in GT5 already, there's the Nissan R391, Toyota TS010, Toyota 90C-V, Toyota TS030, Nissan NP35, Dome S101.5, Dome S102, Acura ARX-02a, HPD ARX-03, Mazda MXR-01 to name a few off the top of my head.

As for GT cars, there's plenty of Japanese GT cars as well (NSX GT1 Turbo, Nismo R33 GT-R LM, Supra GT, GT-R GT3, GT-R GT1), even without diving into Super GT.

 

[Tornado]

Look, I'm not saying there's not plenty of American cars that should be in GT6, I'm just saying there's more Japanese cars that should be in GT6.

In practical terms there is no difference between the two arguments.

Firebird is a rebodied Camaro, if you're going to jump on me for including the BRZ and 86.

No, I'm going to have my cake and eat it too, since there is a good chance if you picked a year at random the differences from the top of the line Camaro and a top of the line Trans Am would include completely different drivetrains, engines, interiors and exteriors; and the difference between the BreezeFreeze models amounts to the front clip, the steering wheel and gauge face colors.


The other main difference being that we already got two nearly identical variations of a car that went on sale within the past few months, plus a bunch of concept versions of it; but we have no examples from a car which only shares the platform and general body shape to one in the game that was on sale for 35 years.

Avanti is not a sports car

335 horsepower. 3200-3300 pounds. Faster than anything else made in America at the time by a wide margin.

and the rest are "hot" versions of economy cars. The counter argument to those are a plethora of "hot" Civics, Sentras, Mirages, Galants, Starlets, Mazdas, etc.

It seemed fair enough to include them, since you did the same in your post. And other than logistics reasons, what makes those Japanese cars "better" to the extent of including those rather than the American equivalents? Because that is functionally the argument you've been making.

Right, focus on those

You said, and I quote:
"American sports cars include Corvette, Viper, Camaro, Mustang, Ford GT, Pontiac Solstice, Saleen S7, Shelby Cobra, Chrysler Crossfire, and I'm running out of names already. Half of these are single generational."

Immediately after you rattled off a list of cars where the exact same thing applied.

And if the idea that American sports cars have many examples of lasting only one model run makes some difference to whether it should be considered for GT6, then the same thing applies just the same to Japanese sports cars that burnt out the same way.

Think Silvia, Nissan Z, Lancer Evo, Impreza WRX Sti, Celica, Skyline GT-R/GT-R. I just see more generations of Japanese sports cars on average. There's three generations of MR2, 1 generation of Fiero. There's four generations of Integra, five generations of Prelude, 1 generation of Dodge Daytona. Three generation of MX-5, 1 generation of Solstice.

All of this is ignoring the elephant in the room that, again, we already have quite a few of those cars, modeled right now as Premiums. So what I have to ask is do I really need to list off go through and list off American equivalents to that list where we have one model from the entire history if we're lucky? We've already got 3 Nissan Zs. We've already got 2 Silvias. We've already got 3 Imprezas. We've already got 4 Lancer Evos. We've got 3 RX-7s. We've got 2 NSXs. We've got 2 Cappuccinos. We've got the Copen and a Copen concept car. We've got the AZ-1. We've already got 8 GT-Rs and 5 BreezeFreeze related vehicles and 3 Miatas. Why do we need to make sure we focus on getting even more of them before we consider looking for things made elsewhere? And elsewhere happens to include countries like America, where if we were to waste our time and actually sit down and weed out the amount of sporty cars, would probably have numbers pretty close to those of Japan regardless.




You're making the argument that we need to make getting every hotted up Skyline and Impreza a much higher priority before American equivalents can even be considered. Explain that part. Yeah, it would be nice to have all of the historically significant Japanese sporty cars. But it would be a lot nicer to have some variety in regional representation. If that means we have to miss out on having all 11 Lancer Evolution variants so we can get a wider variety of distinct models from other reaches of the globe, then so be it.

I'm not trying to discredit American cars, I just see far more cars from Japan that I want to see in GT6.

And there is nothing wrong with that, but that's kind of the definition of bias; as opposed to the ideal car list that a non-biased game would have that you claimed you were coming up with. A non-biased car list would have fairly equal representation from the major automobile producing countries. Not a 4-1 spread towards the brands of one country over another, to say nothing about how you are attributing nearly the same weight for the Japanese industry as that of the entire European one when Germany probably makes at least as many sporty cars as Japan does by themselves; to say nothing about Italy (where terms like "passion" and "soul" are thrown around to the point of cliche) or Britian (where the idea of a "British sports car" is so pervasive that most car enthusiasts can describe one without even knowing it).

 

[SagarisGTB]

And that's good for you, but that's kind of the definition of bias; as opposed to the ideal car list that a non-biased game would have that you claimed you were coming up with. A non-biased car list would have fairly equal representation from the major automobile producing countries. Not a 4-1 spread towards the brands of one country over another, to say nothing about how you are attributing nearly the same weight for the Japanese industry as that of the entire European one when Germany probably makes at least as many sporty cars as Japan does by themselves; to say nothing about Italy (where terms like "passion" and "soul" are thrown around to the point of cliche) or Britian (where the idea of a "British sports car" is so pervasive that most car enthusiasts can describe one without even knowing it).

Err, the whole point was about an ideal car list for GT. May seem like a trivial difference to you, but I identify the Japanese identity of GT as an important part of the game that it has built over the years.

For a neutral game, there would be less Japanese cars. German cars would probably be most numerous, followed closely by Italian and Japanese cars. But I digress, this is a GT forum.

The point I was trying to get at was that Japanese sports cars and race cars are more numerous in variety than their American counterparts, so an equal percentage of both would produce a higher number of Japanese cars for a GT game. As a more extreme example, its the same when you compare Korean cars with Italian cars; the greater number of Italian sports cars and race cars merit a higher number of cars for inclusion. Clearly many disagree and I will no longer pursue justification in this thread.

 

[ak101]

I think if PD are going to have majority of Japanese cars this time. Instead of having the same cars ten times (Skyline, MX-5) or so... They must consider the many Japanese cars that haven't been seen in the Gran Turismo series.

 

[Exorcet]

Right, focus on those when I named several that have as many or more generations than any American sports car. Think Silvia, Nissan Z, Lancer Evo, Impreza WRX Sti, Celica, Skyline GT-R/GT-R. I just see more generations of Japanese sports cars on average. There's three generations of MR2, 1 generation of Fiero. There's four generations of Integra, five generations of Prelude, 1 generation of Dodge Daytona. Three generation of MX-5, 1 generation of Solstice.

There is 50 years of Corvette, 50 years of Mustang, almost as much Camaro, 5 generations of Viper distinct in performance (3 if you only want to consider major visual differences). That's a lot of cars.

I'm not trying to discredit American cars, I just see far more cars from Japan that I want to see in GT6.Other than Mastretta, I can't name any non-US sportscars from the Americas. I'm open to being educated about them, but I don't imagine there will be more than a handful of them.
Mosler, SSC, Callaway, Vector, Tesla, and Panoz: Ok, but we are talking about one or two cars from each.

Well, what one individual wants to see isn't a very objective measure. I think that a better metric is looking at how many cars you could possibly include, and the US has just as many as Japan.

Also, Mosler could easily have more than two cars. The MT900 has differing aero and power options (could be 2-3 cars in GT6), there was the preceding Raptor (1 car), and there were some Mosler GT3 race cars (1 car).
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/112_0306_2002_mosler_mt900_photon/viewall.html


http://www.caranddriver.com/features/lightning-lap-2008-feature-ll5-2008-mosler-mt900s-page-23


http://www.caranddriver.com/feature...nd-driver-lightning-lap-2011-ll5-class-page-6



SSC has the Aero, Ultimate Aero (3 types), and Tuatara.

Callaway has the C12, C16, and the 250 mph Sledgehammer Corvette in addition to a bunch of tuner cars and race cars.

Vector in GT2 had 3 cars, out of 5 or so that they've shown up to that point. Since then, they've shown another car they might build in the future.

Telsa only has two cars.

Panoz has the Esperante GTR-1 road car, the Esperante GT, Esperante GTLM, Esperante GTS, the Roadser and AIV Roadster, and the Abruzzi. The Esperantes have significant performance differences.

The US accounts from most American sports cars, but not all. Most other countries will have 1-2 sports cars, like Oullim Motors. I know of two right now.

Rossin-Bertin Vorax (Brazil)
HTT Pléthore (Canada)

Aside from the Dallara SP1 (Chrysler LMP), Cadillac Northstar LMP and Panoz GTR-1 (which is in the game), which LMPs are you referring to?

Three (or two if the Panoz stays) cars isn't a lot of space to ask for is it? We could go for more as the Northstar was a multi year effort, like the 3 Pescarolo's in GT4-5. They're not LMP's, but there are Daytona prototypes too.

Besides the ones in GT5 already, there's the Nissan R391, Toyota TS010, Toyota 90C-V, Toyota TS030, Nissan NP35, Dome S101.5, Dome S102, Acura ARX-02a, HPD ARX-03, Mazda MXR-01 to name a few off the top of my head.

We all know, but "a lot" to zero isn't an even split when both sides made more than zero. Not only that, the US cars did well, their parent companies just didn't let them mature.

As for GT cars, there's plenty of Japanese GT cars as well (NSX GT1 Turbo, Nismo R33 GT-R LM, Supra GT, GT-R GT3, GT-R GT1), even without diving into Super GT.

This is where the US put most of its racing effort in international racing. ALMS is barely represented in GT despite it hosting the biggest endurance race in the US. The US has also been in Super GT (Dodge and Mosler at least) and in FIA GT racing in multiple classes (Dodge, Ford, Chevy, Saleen).

Err, the whole point was about an ideal car list for GT. May seem like a trivial difference to you, but I identify the Japanese identity of GT as an important part of the game that it has built over the years.

So why not just give 50-60% of the game to Japan?

The point I was trying to get at was that Japanese sports cars and race cars are more numerous in variety than their American counterparts

There doesn't seem to be a good case for that.

As a more extreme example, its the same when you compare Korean cars with Italian cars; the greater number of Italian sports cars and race cars merit a higher number of cars for inclusion. Clearly many disagree and I will no longer pursue justification in this thread.

Except Korea hasn't been making cars since the 1800's. And racing since around that time too. You can pretty much find an American analogue to every Japanese car in GT. The entire GT5 premium lineup could be US cars only, easily. There's no shortage of them.

 

[JohnyPiston]

Err, the whole point was about an ideal car list for GT. May seem like a trivial difference to you, but I identify the Japanese identity of GT as an important part of the game that it has built over the years.

For a neutral game, there would be less Japanese cars. German cars would probably be most numerous, followed closely by Italian and Japanese cars. But I digress, this is a GT forum.

The point I was trying to get at was that Japanese sports cars and race cars are more numerous in variety than their American counterparts, so an equal percentage of both would produce a higher number of Japanese cars for a GT game. As a more extreme example, its the same when you compare Korean cars with Italian cars; the greater number of Italian sports cars and race cars merit a higher number of cars for inclusion. Clearly many disagree and I will no longer pursue justification in this thread.

Your points are logical and reasonable. I am with you on this one. As someone who is not American I know every japanese car you mentioned but only a handful of the American ones. That explains your reasoning just fine to me. Thanks.

 

[Earth]

I think the point is PD really needs to broaden their scope and stop being so biased to Japanese cars.

Turn 10 is an American developer, but they did not let that make them go overkill with American cars, only 23% of Forza 4's car roster is American. Whats really interesting is that only 20% of it's cars are Japanese and I dont think anyone is complaining about that.

The point is, only the very best of Japan's sports cars should get 5 or so slots on the car roster. The rest one or two, like every other country. Stop the bias.

Compare Ford's entire GT5 lineup

P Ford 2010 AJ Allmendinger #43 Best Buy FORD FUSION ’10
P Ford 2010 Carl Edwards #99 Aflac FORD FUSION ’10
S Ford Escort Rally Car ’98
S Ford Focus Rally Car ’99
S Ford Focus RS ’02
P Ford Focus RS WRC 07 ’08
P Ford Focus ST ’06
S Ford Focus ST170 ’03
S Ford Ford GT ’02
S Ford Ford GT ’05
P Ford Ford GT ’06
S Ford Ford GT LM Race Car
S Ford Ford GT LM Race Car Spec II
P Ford Ford GT LM Spec II Test Car
S Ford GT40 Race Car ’69
S Ford Ka ’01
P Ford Mark IV Race Car ’67
S Ford Mustang GT ’05
P Ford Mustang Mach 1 ’71
S Ford Mustang SVT Cobra R ’00
P Ford Mustang V8 GT Coupe Premium ’07
S Ford RS200 ’84
S Ford RS200 Rally Car ’85
S Ford SVT F-150 Lightning ’03
S Ford Taurus SHO ’98

With this. Are you telling me the Impreza is as important as Ford's 109 year history?

S Subaru IMPREZA Coupe 22B-STi Version ’98
S Subaru IMPREZA Coupe WRX typeR STi Version VI ’99
S Subaru IMPREZA Rally Car ’99
S Subaru IMPREZA Rally Car ’01
S Subaru IMPREZA Rally Car ’03
S Subaru IMPREZA Rally Car Prototype ’01
S Subaru IMPREZA Sedan WRX STi ’94
P Subaru IMPREZA Sedan WRX STI (18inch BBS Wheel Option) ’10
S Subaru IMPREZA Sedan WRX STi (Type-II) ’02
S Subaru IMPREZA Sedan WRX STi spec C (Type-II) ’04
P Subaru IMPREZA Sedan WRX STI spec C Type RA ’05
P Subaru IMPREZA Sedan WRX STI spec C Type RA RM ’05
S Subaru IMPREZA Sedan WRX STi Version (Type-I) ’00
S Subaru IMPREZA Sedan WRX STi Version II ’95
S Subaru IMPREZA Sedan WRX STi Version III ’96
S Subaru IMPREZA Sedan WRX STi Version IV ’97
S Subaru IMPREZA Sedan WRX STi Version V ’98
S Subaru IMPREZA Sedan WRX STi Version VI ’99
S Subaru IMPREZA Sport Wagon STi (Type-I) ’00
S Subaru IMPREZA Sport Wagon WRX STi Version VI ’99
S Subaru IMPREZA Super Touring Car
P Subaru IMPREZA WRC 2008 ’08
P Subaru IMPREZA WRX STI (18inch BBS Wheel Option) ’07
S Subaru IMPREZA WRX STi Prodrive Style (Type-I) ’01

Some more to chew on

S Honda ACCORD Coupe ’88
S Honda ACCORD Coupe EX ’03
S Honda ACCORD Euro-R ’00
S Honda ACCORD Euro-R ’02

S Honda CIVIC 1500 3door 25i ’83
S Honda CIVIC 1500 3door CX ’79
S Honda CIVIC SiR-II (EG) ’91
S Honda CIVIC SiR-II (EG) ’92
S Honda CIVIC SiR-II (EG) ’93
S Honda CIVIC SiR-II (EG) ’95
P Honda CIVIC TYPE R ’08
P/S Honda CIVIC TYPE R (EK) ’97
P Honda CIVIC TYPE R (EK) RM ’97
S Honda CIVIC TYPE R (EK) ’98
S Honda CIVIC TYPE R (EP) ’01
S Honda CIVIC TYPE R (EP) ’04
S Honda CIVIC TYPE R (EP, EU) ’01

S Honda INTEGRA TYPE R (DC2) ’95
S Honda INTEGRA TYPE R (DC2) ’98
S Honda INTEGRA TYPE R (DC2) ’99
S Honda INTEGRA TYPE R (DC5) ’03
P Honda INTEGRA TYPE R (DC5) ’04
P Honda INTEGRA TYPE R (DC5) RM ’04

S Honda NSX ’90
S Honda NSX ’93
S Honda NSX ’95
S Honda NSX ’97
S Honda NSX ’99
S Honda NSX ’01
S Honda NSX Type R ’92
P/S Honda NSX Type R ’02
S Honda NSX Type S ’97
S Honda NSX Type S ’99
S Honda NSX Type S ’01
S Honda NSX Type S Zero ’97
S Honda NSX Type S Zero ’99
S Honda NSX-R Concept ’01

S Honda PRELUDE Si VTEC ’91
S Honda PRELUDE SiR ’96
S Honda PRELUDE SiR S spec ’98
S Honda PRELUDE Type S ’96
S Honda PRELUDE Type S ’98

S Honda S2000 ’99
S Honda S2000 ’01
S Honda S2000 ’03
P Honda S2000 ’06
S Honda S2000 (EU) ’99
S Honda S2000 (EU) ’01
S Honda S2000 (EU) ’03
S Honda S2000 (US) ’99
S Honda S2000 (US) ’01
S Honda S2000 (US) ’04
S Honda S2000 LM Race Car
S Honda S2000 Type V ’00
S Honda S2000 Type V ’01
S Honda S2000 Type V ’03
S Honda S2000 Type V (EU) ’00
S Honda S2000 Type V (EU) ’01
S Honda S2000 Type V (US) ’00
S Honda S2000 Type V (US) ’01

P/S Mazda éfini RX-7 Type R (FD) ’91
S Mazda éfini RX-7 Type R (FD) ’93
S Mazda éfini RX-7 Type RS (FD) ’96
S Mazda éfini RX-7 Type R-S (FD) ’95
S Mazda éfini RX-7 Type RZ (FD) ’92
S Mazda éfini RX-7 Type RZ (FD) ’93
S Mazda éfini RX-7 Type RZ (FD) ’95
S Mazda éfini RX-7 Type RZ (FD) ’96

/S Mazda Eunos Roadster (NA Special Package) ’89
P/S Mazda Eunos Roadster J-Limited (NA) ’91
S Mazda Eunos Roadster J-Limited II (NA) ’93
S Mazda Eunos Roadster SR-Limited (NA) ’97
S Mazda Eunos Roadster S-Special Type I (NA) ’95
S Mazda Eunos Roadster VR-Limited (NA) ’95
S Mazda Eunos Roadster V-Special Type II (NA) ’93

S Mazda MX-5 (NA) ’89
S Mazda MX-5 1.8 RS (NB, J) ’98
S Mazda MX-5 1600 NR-A (NB, J) ’04
S Mazda MX-5 1800 RS (NB, J) ’00
S Mazda MX-5 1800 RS (NB, J) ’04
S Mazda MX-5 J-Limited (NA, J) ’91
S Mazda MX-5 J-Limited II (NA, J) ’93
S Mazda MX-5 Miata (NA) ’89
S Mazda MX-5 Miata 1.8 RS (NB, J) ’98
S Mazda MX-5 Miata 1600 NR-A (NB, J) ’04
S Mazda MX-5 Miata 1800 RS (NB, J) ’00
S Mazda MX-5 Miata 1800 RS (NB, J) ’04
S Mazda MX-5 Miata J-Limited (NA, J) ’91
S Mazda MX-5 Miata J-Limited II (NA, J) ’93
S Mazda MX-5 Miata SR-Limited (NA, J) ’97
S Mazda MX-5 Miata S-Special Type I (NA, J) ’95
S Mazda MX-5 Miata VR-Limited (NA, J) ’95
S Mazda MX-5 Miata V-Special Type II (NA, J) ’93
S Mazda MX-5 SR-Limited (NA, J) ’97
S Mazda MX-5 S-Special Type I (NA, J) ’95
S Mazda MX-5 VR-Limited (NA, J) ’95
S Mazda MX-5 V-Special Type II (NA, J) ’93

S Mazda RX-8 ’03
S Mazda RX-8 Concept (Type-I) ’01
S Mazda RX-8 Concept (Type-II) ’01
S Mazda RX-8 Concept LM Race Car
S Mazda RX-8 Type E ’03
P Mazda RX-8 Type S ’07
S Mazda RX-8 Type S ’03

S Mitsubishi 3000GT MR (J) ’95
S Mitsubishi 3000GT MR (J) ’98
S Mitsubishi 3000GT SL (J) ’95
S Mitsubishi 3000GT SL (J) ’96
S Mitsubishi 3000GT SL (J) ’98
S Mitsubishi 3000GT SR (J) ’95
S Mitsubishi 3000GT SR (J) ’96
S Mitsubishi 3000GT SR (J) ’98
S Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 (J) ’98
S Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 Turbo (J) ’95
S Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 Turbo (J) ’96
S Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 Turbo (J) ’98

S Mitsubishi FTO GP Version R ’97
S Mitsubishi FTO GP Version R ’99
S Mitsubishi FTO GPX ’94
S Mitsubishi FTO GPX ’97
S Mitsubishi FTO GPX ’99
S Mitsubishi FTO GR ’94
S Mitsubishi FTO GR ’97

S Mitsubishi GTO SR ’95
S Mitsubishi GTO SR ’96
S Mitsubishi GTO SR ’98
S Mitsubishi GTO Twin Turbo ’95
S Mitsubishi GTO Twin Turbo ’96
S Mitsubishi GTO Twin Turbo ’98
S Mitsubishi GTO Twin Turbo MR ’95
S Mitsubishi GTO Twin Turbo MR ’98

S Mitsubishi Lancer 1600 GSR ’74
S Mitsubishi Lancer 1600 GSR Rally Car ’74
S Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution II GSR ’94
S Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution III GSR ’95
P/S Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IV GSR ’96
S Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IV Rally Car ’97
S Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution V GSR ’98
S Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VI GSR ’99
S Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VI GSR TOMMI MAKINEN EDITION ’00
P Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VI GSR T.M. EDITION Special Color Package ’99
S Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VI Rally Car ’99
S Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VI RS ’99
S Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VI RS TOMMI MAKINEN EDITION ’00
S Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VII GSR ’01
S Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VII GT-A ’02
S Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VII RS ’01
S Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VIII GSR ’03
S Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VIII MR GSR ’04
S Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VIII RS ’03
P Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX GSR ’05
P Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX GSR RM ’05
P Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X GSR Premium Package ’07
S Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution GSR ’92

S Nissan Fairlady 2000 (SR311) ’68
S Nissan Fairlady 240ZG (HS30) ’71
P Nissan Fairlady Z (Z34) ’08
S Nissan Fairlady Z 280Z-L 2seater (S130) ’78
S Nissan Fairlady Z 300ZX (Z31) ’83
P/S Nissan Fairlady Z 300ZX TwinTurbo 2seater (Z32) ’89
S Nissan Fairlady Z 300ZX Version R TwinTurbo 2by2 (Z32) ’98
S Nissan Fairlady Z 300ZX Version S TwinTurbo 2seater (Z32) ’98
S Nissan Fairlady Z Concept LM Race Car
S Nissan Fairlady Z Roadster (Z33) ’03
S Nissan Fairlady Z Version S (Z33) ’02
P Nissan Fairlady Z Version S (Z33) ’07
S Nissan Fairlady Z Version ST (Z33 Option Wheel) ’02

S Nissan SILVIA (CSP311) ’65
S Nissan SILVIA 240RS (S110) ’83
S Nissan SILVIA K’s (S13) ’88
S Nissan SILVIA K’s (S13) ’91
S Nissan SILVIA K’s AERO (S14) ’93
S Nissan SILVIA K’s AERO (S14) ’96
P Nissan SILVIA K’s Dia Selection (S13) ’90
S Nissan SILVIA Q’s (S13) ’88
S Nissan SILVIA Q’s (S13) ’91
S Nissan SILVIA Q’s AERO (S14) ’93
S Nissan SILVIA Q’s AERO (S14) ’96
P Nissan SILVIA spec-R AERO (S15) ’02
P Nissan SILVIA spec-R AERO (S15) RM ’02
S Nissan SILVIA spec-R AERO (S15) ’99
S Nissan SILVIA spec-S AERO (S15) ’99
S Nissan SILVIA Varietta (S15) ’00

S Nissan SKYLINE 1500Deluxe (S50D-1) ’63
S Nissan SKYLINE 2000GT-B (S54A) ’67
S Nissan SKYLINE 2000GT-R (KPGC110) ’73
S Nissan SKYLINE Coupe 350GT ’03
P Nissan SKYLINE Coupe 370GT Type SP ’07
S Nissan SKYLINE GT-R (R32) ’89
S Nissan SKYLINE GT-R (R32) ’91
S Nissan SKYLINE GT-R (R33) ’95
S Nissan SKYLINE GT-R (R33) ’96
S Nissan SKYLINE GT-R (R33) ’97
S Nissan SKYLINE GT-R (R34) ’99
S Nissan SKYLINE GT-R (R34) ’00
S Nissan SKYLINE GT-R M·spec (R34) ’01
S Nissan SKYLINE GT-R M·spec Nür (R34) ’02
S Nissan SKYLINE GT-R N1 (R32) ’91
S Nissan SKYLINE GT-R N1 (R33) ’95
S Nissan SKYLINE GT-R Special Color Midnight Purple II (R34) ’99
S Nissan SKYLINE GT-R Special Color Midnight Purple III (R34) ’00
S Nissan SKYLINE GT-R V·spec (R32) ’93
S Nissan SKYLINE GT-R V·spec (R33) ’95
S Nissan SKYLINE GT-R V·spec (R33) ’96
P/S Nissan SKYLINE GT-R V·spec (R33) ’97
S Nissan SKYLINE GT-R V·spec (R34) ’99
P/S Nissan SKYLINE GT-R V·spec II (R32) ’94
S Nissan SKYLINE GT-R V·spec II (R34) ’00
S Nissan SKYLINE GT-R V·spec II N1 (R34) ’00
P/S Nissan SKYLINE GT-R V·spec II Nür (R34) ’02
S Nissan SKYLINE GT-R V·spec LM Limited (R33) ’96
S Nissan SKYLINE GT-R V·spec N1 (R32) ’93
S Nissan SKYLINE GT-R V·spec N1 (R34) ’99
S Nissan SKYLINE GTS25 Type S (R32) ’91
S Nissan SKYLINE GTS-R (R31) ’87
S Nissan SKYLINE GTS-t Type M (R32) ’89
S Nissan SKYLINE GTS-t Type M (R32) ’91
S Nissan SKYLINE Hard Top 2000 RS-X Turbo C (R30) ’84
S Nissan SKYLINE Hard Top 2000 Turbo RS (R30) ’83
S Nissan SKYLINE Hard Top 2000GT-R (KPGC10) ’70
S Nissan SKYLINE Sedan 300GT ’01
P Nissan SKYLINE Sedan 350GT Type SP ’06
S Nissan SKYLINE Sedan 350GT-8 ’02
S Nissan SKYLINE Sport Coupe (BLRA-3) ’62

S Subaru LEGACY B4 2.0GT ’03
S Subaru LEGACY B4 2.0GT spec.B ’03
S Subaru LEGACY B4 3.0R ’03
S Subaru LEGACY B4 Blitzen ’00
S Subaru LEGACY B4 RSK ’98
S Subaru LEGACY Touring Wagon 2.0GT ’03
S Subaru LEGACY Touring Wagon 2.0GT spec.B ’03
S Subaru LEGACY Touring Wagon 3.0R ’03
S Subaru LEGACY Touring Wagon GT-B ’96

S Toyota CELICA 1600GT (TA22) ’70
S Toyota CELICA 2000GT-FOUR (ST165) ’86
S Toyota CELICA 2000GT-R (ST162) ’86
S Toyota CELICA GT-FOUR (ST205) ’98
S Toyota CELICA GT-FOUR Rally Car (ST185) ’95
P/S Toyota CELICA GT-FOUR Rally Car (ST205) ’95
S Toyota CELICA GT-FOUR RC (ST185) ’91
S Toyota CELICA GT-R (ST183, 4WS) ’91
S Toyota CELICA SS-II (ST202) ’97
S Toyota CELICA SS-II (ZZT231) ’99
S Toyota CELICA XX 2800GT ’81

S Toyota MR2 1600 G ’86
S Toyota MR2 1600 G-Limited Super Charger ’86
S Toyota MR2 G-Limited ’97
S Toyota MR2 GT-S ’97
S Toyota MR2 Spyder ’99
S Toyota MR2 Spyder (6MT) ’02

And its not just American cars look how woefully under represented Ferrari is. Its like these cars were almost chosen out of lottery

P Ferrari 330 P4 Race Car ’67
P Ferrari 430 Scuderia ’07
P Ferrari 458 Italia ’09
P Ferrari 512BB ’76
P Ferrari 599 ’06
P Ferrari California ’08
P/S Ferrari Enzo Ferrari ’02
P Ferrari F10 ’10
P Ferrari F40 ’92
P Ferrari F430 ’06
P/S Ferrari F2007
P Ferrari SP1 ’08

 

[Exorcet]

And its not just American cars look how woefully under represented Ferrari is. Its like these cars were almost chosen out of lottery

It's true, looking back at my break down, it might make more sense to push Europe to 50%.

The "big" car nations should have a nearly even distribution of cars.

UK, Germany, Italy, US, Japan.

Clearly, most of them are in Europe. And in addition Europe has lots of small and not so small (France) car makers.

Europe - 50 to 60%
America - 20%
Asia - 20%
Other - 10 to 15%

 

[dr_slump]

I think somebody said American cars aren't wanted as much as other cars? I disagree. European cars are easily the most wanted because they offer the most performance. Japanese cars on the other hand tend to be very heavy on the "kei" side. But American cars almost always offer high horsepower and performance. Just look at a typical Japanese highway or road to see an endless array of micro cars. Look at an American highway to see big, powerful vehicles.

At least not here in Switzerland

Sales figures from January to July 2012 (Switzerland; Europe):

70.2% European cars
7.1% American cars
17.5% Japanese cars
5.1% Korean cars
0.5% Others

(percentages are rounded)
---

Sales figures from January to July 2012 (USA)

45% American cars
36.8% Japanese cars
9% Korean cars
9% European cars

(percentages are rounded)
---

And look how popular american cars are in Japan

Sales figures from January to July 2012 (Japan)

∼ 95% Japanese cars
∼ 4% Others
GM Japan.... ehh, almost 0% (Ford, Chrysler aren't better)

(percentages are extremely rounded; it's quite hard to find exact numbers)
---

Be happy that they didn't include even more japanese cars.

--------

The "big" car nations should have a nearly even distribution of cars.

UK, Germany, Italy, US, Japan.

UK?
Germany, Japan, USA, France, Italy, South Korea, China (yes, no joke), India; they're all above 1million cars per year
(order has no meaning)

And btw, Tata Motors (India) produces more cars than all british car manufacturers together. Even funnier is the fact that they own Jaguar and Land Rover.


By far the most cars which are produced in the UK are japanese cars.

 

[finnracer]

--------

UK?
Germany, Japan, USA, France, Italy, South Korea, China (yes, no joke), India; they're all above 1million cars per year
(order has no meaning)

And btw, Tata Motors (India) produces more cars than all british car manufacturers together. Even funnier is the fact that they own Jaguar and Land Rover.


By far the most cars which are produced in the UK are japanese cars.

In terms of volume Britain is well behind the listed countries but as far as iconic cars go (probably more relevant for video-games) it would rank far more closely certainly above China, India and South Korea (Mclaren's , Jags, Caterham 7's, Lotuses, Mini, Land Rover/Range Rovers, MG, Bentley, Rolls among others) So I can see why it would be considered a 'car nation'.

 

[avens]

Since most GT5 sells were European and they mostly buy euro cars, lets add lots of those.

Also it shows everyone likes Japanese cars

 

[dr_slump]

In terms of volume Britain is well behind the listed countries but as far as iconic cars go (probably more relevant for video-games) it would rank far more closely certainly above China, India and South Korea (Mclaren's , Jags, Caterham 7's, Lotuses, Mini, Land Rover/Range Rovers, MG, Bentley, Rolls among others) So I can see why it would be considered a 'car nation'.

If you see it this way, sure. It's like Italy with Fiat and Maserati, Ferrari, etc just without Fiat (yes I'm aware that Fiat owns Maserati and Ferrari, but I just don't know a better example)

 

[ak101]

In my opinion every motor manufacturer's vehicle line-up has been poorly represented in GT5. On the other hand in fairness Turn 10 has done a much better job than PD but lags distant from perfection.

 

[Exorcet]

UK?
Germany, Japan, USA, France, Italy, South Korea, China (yes, no joke), India; they're all above 1million cars per year
(order has no meaning)

Yes UK. TVR by itself is a better addition than India and China combined. Volume of car sales doesn't matter, it's a terrible metric, and if it was followed we would have basically zero supercars. We'd have even less racecars.

The important number is the amount of interesting models developed.

UK, Germany, Italy, US, Japan are the big five that spring to mind, to me at least. Feel free to suggest others.

Sales figures from January to July 2012 (Switzerland; Europe):

70.2% European cars
7.1% American cars
17.5% Japanese cars
5.1% Korean cars
0.5% Others

(percentages are rounded)
---

Sales figures from January to July 2012 (USA)

45% American cars
36.8% Japanese cars
9% Korean cars
9% European cars

(percentages are rounded)
---

And look how popular american cars are in Japan

Sales figures from January to July 2012 (Japan)

∼ 95% Japanese cars
∼ 4% Others
GM Japan.... ehh, almost 0% (Ford, Chrysler aren't better)

So, a [poor, single country] representation of the largest GT market favors European (a lot of countries, not one nation) cars. The middle market favors US cars, and the smallest market favors Japanese cars.

 

[Earth]

Yes, Japanese volume means nothing when it comes to desirable or great cars, as the following lists support. You can see that it's European cars which are woefully under supported in the GT series followed by American

Daily Telegraph Most beautiful cars of all time top 20

19 euro
1 american

Top Gear 20 best cars since '93

15 Euro
3 American
2 Japanese

Ridelust Top 20 sports cars of all time

14 European
3 American
3 Japanese

Edmunds 100 Greatest Cars of All Time (Top 20 counted here)

11 American
9 European

Top 20 Best Selling cars of all time

8 European
7 American
5 Japanese

Insideline 100 Most Beautiful Cars (Top 20)

13 European
7 American

Evo.uk's Top 100 greatest drivers cars (Top 20 counted here)

16 European
3 Japanese
1 American

Top Gear 100 Sexiest Cars (Top 20 counted here)

17 European
2 Japanese
1 American

 

[ak101]

Let's make things easier for future GT titles. Here are the worlds top four leading countries that manufacture the best in automobiles.

1. Germany
2. Japan
3. Italy
4. USA
5. Now simply minimising others

Yet we haven't seen the best of those automotive manufacturers listed above in the entire Gran Turismo series.

 

[Samus]

How are you determining that, exactly?

 

[OHM_fusion]

Since most GT5 sells were European and they mostly buy euro cars, lets add lots of those.

This was always strange to me. PD obviously knows that Europe is by far the biggest market for GT, yet European cars are so under represented. You would think they would do everything they can to add European cars to get even more sales. Strange.. I also wonder why GT is selling so poorly in Japan. It's definitely the best virtual collection of Japanese automotive history in a racing game.

 

[Samus]

The Japanese as a whole just aren't interested in serious racing games. Look at the top 30 selling games of 2011:


01: [3DS] Mario Kart 7 (Nintendo): 1,160,169
02: [3DS] Super Mario 3D Land (Nintendo): 1,080,192
03: [3DS] Monster Hunter 3G (Capcom): 985,498
04: [PSP] Final Fantasy Type-0 (Square Enix): 746,203
05: [PS3] Final Fantasy XIII-2 (Square Enix): 704,236
06: [PSP] Monster Hunter Portable 3rd (Capcom): 682,651 (4,532,557)
07: [Wii] Rhythm Heaven: 654,403
08: [PS3] Tales of Xillia (Namco Bandai): 627,346
09: [NDS] Dragon Quest Monsters Joker 2 Professional (Square Enix): 602,664
10: [Wii] Wii Sports Resort Wiimote Plus Pack (Nintendo): 579,220 (802,974)
11: [Wii] Wii Party (Nintendo): 546,738 (2,223,629)
12: [Wii] Kirby Wii (Nintendo): 537,128
13: [3DS] Zelda Ocarina of Time 3D (Nintendo): 483,432
14: [PSP] Dissidia Duodecim Final Fantasy (Square Enix): 465,198
15: [PS3] Dynasty Warriors 7 (Tecmo Koei): 455,996
16: [Wii] Just Dance Wii (Nintendo): 453,411
17: [PS3] Gundam Extreme VS (Namco Bandai): 453,084
18: [3DS] nintendogs+cats (Nintendo): 443,400
19: [NDS] Pokemon Black & White: 433,876 (5,400,613)
20: [PS3] Winning Eleven 2012 (Konami): 425,771
21: [PSP] 2nd Super Robot Taisen Z Hakai-hen (Namco Bandai): 423,972
22: [PS3] Yakuza Of the End: 416,050
23: [PS3] Monster Hunter Portable 3rd HD Version (Capcom) 415,943
24: [Wii] Dragon Quest Collection (Square Enix): 403,953
25: [PSP] Phantasy Star Portable 2 Infinity (Sega): 376,534
26: [3DS] Professor Layton and the Miracle Mask (Level-5): 361,503
27: [PS3] Dark Souls (From Software): 353,549
28: [PSP] AKB1/48 If I Loved an Idol in Guam (Namco Bandai): 350,350
29: [NDS] Atsumete! Kirby (Nintendo): 349,899
30: [PSP] Little Battler eXperience (Level-5): 346,608

Notice a general theme there?

 

[CorvetteConquer]

Still waiting for premium Pontiacs, Chryslers, Cadillacs, Buicks, RUFS, Spykers, Saleens, etc.

Still waiting for GT to be a better global game in terms of maufacturers.


-Remember, it took FIVE PS console games to see Ferrari + Lamborghini. What gives?

Sweden deserves Koenigsegg to be represented.

Italy deserves De Tomaso.

Germany deserves RUFs and Gumperts.

America deserves premium Pontiacs, Buicks, Plymouths, Chryslers, Saleens, etc.

Korea deserves premium Kia and Hyundai (finally we'll see at least Hyudai)

Australia deserves premium Holdens.

 

[Earth]

Let's make things easier for future GT titles. Here are the worlds top four leading countries that manufacture the best in automobiles.

1. Germany
2. Japan
3. Italy
4. USA
5. Now simply minimising others

Yet we haven't seen the best of those automotive manufacturers listed above in the entire Gran Turismo series.

I would line them up like this

1. Germany

• Audi
• BMW
• Gumpert
• Isdera
• Mercedes-Benz
• Opel
• Porsche
• RUF
• Volkswagen

2. Japan

• Acura
• Daihatsu
• Dome
• Honda
• Infiniti
• Isuzu
• Lexus
• Mazda
• Mitsubishi
• Nissan
• Polyphony Digital
• Subaru
• Suzuki
• Tommykaira
• Toyota

3. USA

• Buick
• Cadillac
• Callaway
• Chaparral
• Chevrolet
• Chrysler
• DMC
• Dodge
• Ford
• Lincoln
• Mercury
• Mosler
• Oldsmobile
• Panoz
• Plymouth
• Pontiac
• Saleen
• Shelby
• SSC North America
• Tesla Motors
• Vector Aeromotive

4. Great Britain

• AC Cars
• Ariel Motors
• Aston Martin
• Bentley
• Caterham
• Jaguar
• Jensen
• Lotus
• McLaren
• Mini
• Noble
• Rolls-Royce
• TVR
• Vauxhall

5. Italy

• Alfa Romeo
• Cizeta
• Ferrari
• Fiat
• Lamborghini
• Lancia
• Maserati
• Pagani

 

[We Are Alfisti]

The problem with the Japanese cars is that, there not many different models but there are many different versions of the same car. I don't mind having different models of Skylines or NSX or MX5, if PD wants to put, let's say a NSX just put the top of the range model, the Type-R and thats it, don't include 6 more versions.

Another thing that bothers me is that some car makers are minimised, I'm an Alfa Romeo fan, Alfa is 102 years old, and just has some of the latest cars (2000 to 2008 exept for the Giulias and the Spider, The same happens with Ferrari, Ford ( I would like to see some Cosworth versions of the Escort, Sierra or Focus), Jaguar, BMW,etc.

I would also like to see some Koenigseggs, Bentleys, the V8 Ariel Atom, of course Porches, more Maseratis.

 

[avens]

That happens with every brand really. Not one sells cars without trim levels, accessories, different engines, customization, sport versions, convertibles, etc. etc. etc.

After lots of posts about the issue everyone knows I think there should be more sport cars and less 20hp people carriers, lots being Japanese, but in the end what I personally want is simply more of everything, particularly premium cars.
For example I wouldn't buy GT6, whether if it is for the ps3 or ps4, if it includes a single new standard car.

 

[Exorcet]

4. Great Britain

• AC Cars
• Ariel Motors
• Aston Martin
• Bentley
• Caterham
• Jaguar
• Jensen
• Lotus
• McLaren
• Mini
• Noble
• Rolls-Royce
• TVR
• Vauxhall

Add Ascari, Caparo, and Radical. Maybe Stealth too to keep up with GT introducing cars no one has ever heard of.

The problem with the Japanese cars is that, there not many different models but there are many different versions of the same car.

You could do the same in any cars. I just want things split equally, and the amount of variations depends on the total number of cars in game. If we have 400 total cars, yes only go with 1-2 versions. In a 2000 car game, we can have a lot of versions of the same model, as long as they behave differently from each other.

 

[tpark103]

This thread is CONFIRMED...legit!!!!!!!!!