Let's revisit counter-steering assist

  • Thread starter Wardez
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Slapped
In the real world it's generally referred to as Electronic Stability Control. It works by applying braking to individual wheels when a skid is detected in order to regain control of the car while it's still possible to do so.

More advanced versions may incorporate intelligent Electronic Differential Locking as well as Traction control and active suspension into the process.

How it works in GTS is anybody's guess.
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My guess would be that ASM is primarily the former, more simple assist that you described. I'm stil quite intrigued by how some FF cars benefit from this. A wild guess is that ASM uses the rear brakes to help the car rotate
 
Alpha Cipher
My guess would be that ASM is primarily the former, more simple assist that you described. I'm stil quite intrigued by how some FF cars benefit from this. A wild guess is that ASM uses the rear brakes to help the car rotate
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You're pretty much right with regards to the rear brakes countering understeer.

There's more info here if you're into a little bit of reading. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_stability_control
 
mthomas_95
I do agree that for FIA they should match live final regulations and prohibit it, but CSA is now only faster if you're not quick enough to be blunt. Don't care what Circuit Experience times are with hotlap merchants, PD certainly don't :lol:. The delta between CSA on/off should be slightly greater I agree.

Over a race distance with tyre wear it's definitely slower with it on than off. Hotlaps don't bring up it's biggest weakness, but we've moved on from the hotlapping GT Academy era (thank God :lol:). You barely see it in Sport Mode top split in EMEA at least, as people have naturally got better at car control and don't want their fronts to be destroyed (same with ABS Default being preferred to Weak). It's like in the opening weeks when people could get Top 10's with TCS on, not possible now. It does elevate some drivers to a level they don't deserve, but so does other driving aids at the lower levels as people couldn't drive without them.

Basically some people need to look for a new excuse why they aren't winning ;):lol:
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I agree with your points about CSA but why are you always so salty about GT Academy and people who are good at TTs? :lol::P
 
Spurgy 777
I agree with your points about CSA but why are you always so salty about GT Academy and people who are good at TTs? :lol::P
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:lol: Just can't do it myself, fair play to anyone who has the patience though. Restarting the Le Mans Daily Race qualifying from first sector penalties was frustrating enough!
 
So it's prohibited in FIA Seasons from now on. Interesting development.

I understand why they did it but it would've been nice to give a heads up about the change. A lot of people are feeling super unconfident at the moment. Grueling stuff! But I did make the point in this thread when I first posted it... You gotta realize this sort of thing is possible.
 
Wardez
So it's prohibited in FIA Seasons from now on. Interesting development.

I understand why they did it but it would've been nice to give a heads up about the change. A lot of people are feeling super unconfident at the moment. Grueling stuff! But I did make the point in this thread when I first posted it... You gotta realize this sort of thing is possible.
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It makes sense though. It's not like CSA's benefits aren't known outside of GTP; there's a whole ton of youtube videos out there comparing CSA times and without, so I sorta saw it coming

Plus, my time with using CSA is long overdue :lol:
 
What's the removal decision based on I wonder? The fraction of a % in the top ranks who use it but don't need it or is it to appease the non-using whiners who think they've lost a race because of it?:rolleyes:

PD need to get their collective heads out of their collective arses and let the majority of players play how they want to. We're not all A+ Lewis Hamilton's.

(No, I still don't use any assists but a lot of my replays show that some people definitely need to.)
 
kilesa4568
(No, I still don't use any assists but a lot of my replays show that some people definitely need to.)
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I don't think anyone has really complained about people using CSA that needed too.

As far as I can tell the only issue people (sorry for speaking on behalf of everyone, but its what I've noticed anyway) have is people right at the top of A+ rankings using it, that don't need to. But the poor bloke sitting just below them that doesn't get to go to any special events and doesn't use it is potentially the faster driver when it is disabled.
 
kilesa4568
What's the removal decision based on I wonder? The fraction of a % in the top ranks who use it but don't need it or is it to appease the non-using whiners who think they've lost a race because of it?:rolleyes:

PD need to get their collective heads out of their collective arses and let the majority of players play how they want to. We're not all A+ Lewis Hamilton's.

(No, I still don't use any assists but a lot of my replays show that some people definitely need to.)
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The problem with CSA though is that it's almost like a magic assist that makes you half a second faster instantly unless you're the best of the best. This has been a long time coming as we can't really have such an assist in an FiA Championship. ASM is a bit more questionable, but there are people who use it (especially FFs) to be faster as well, although not to the extent of CSA
 
kilesa4568
What's the removal decision based on I wonder? The fraction of a % in the top ranks who use it but don't need it or is it to appease the non-using whiners who think they've lost a race because of it?:rolleyes:

PD need to get their collective heads out of their collective arses and let the majority of players play how they want to. We're not all A+ Lewis Hamilton's.

(No, I still don't use any assists but a lot of my replays show that some people definitely need to.)
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Based on that I'll get my application into Mercedes with the opener "Nope can't drive and have never driven an F1 car, but put in all that magic electronic trickery you've got hidden out back and all Lewis will see is my exhaust pipe disappearing in the the distance"
 
ThePhantomAli
Good. :bowdown:

Hopefully for daily races soon too.
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1000% agree with it. I prefer race against high level AI than humans with CSA. It's not about winning or losing, faster or slower. It's about ethics and the passion of motorsport that is implemented on sim racing. The question is simply; is CSA used on real racing? I don't know about that; found nothing at the search on google though, but I am pretty sure it isn't. It's only CSA that matters, different case with ASM and TCS that are allowed and existed on real racing.:)
 
I agree it's an over powered assist but only for the lower ranks who use it and who most definitely need it. They're not likely to muddy the FIA leader boards now are they?

As I've always said, I see CSA as a safety assist. I'm going nowhere near FIA events as a DRB knowing that nobody is using it.
 
If someone truly needs CSA they can use ASM and/or TCS instead. The end result is the same, only they will not be as fast but that's just fair for those who have put in the time to develop skills to do without.
 
kilesa4568
What's the removal decision based on I wonder? The fraction of a % in the top ranks who use it but don't need it or is it to appease the non-using whiners who think they've lost a race because of it? ...
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Remember our monstrous discussions about GT6 SRF :scared: ?

My thoughts on CSA ? :

Two iterations of GT, two different assists, same story - both got locked out after a while into the game's lifecycle, especially for higher level online events - providing level playing field which is good imo.
I have used none of them so I'm everything but sad ( like you I guess ) about PD's decision.

kilesa4568
... (No, I still don't use any assists but a lot of my replays show that some people definitely need to.)
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You should not need to care at all - people that definitely need running on assists probably should not be matched with you then ... got the idea :) ?
 
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Better the devil you know with people using CSA or a non CSA adjustment period with SR graphs looking like the alps while ranks resettle? I'd rather they (CSA users) kept their consistency while I work on mine.

Why not tie assists to rank and remove them as you progress? Leaving the lower ranks the help they need.
 
Alpha Cipher
Former CSA users can use TCS if they want consistency :)
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Traction Control is rubbish though and just slows you down unnecessarily. I suppose with A/B and lower drivers sure it may help but for those of us previously using this short-cut just to get a little nearer to the elite we now have to learn to drive properly again, to still be a second or more slower than the very best. :embarrassed::lol:

Not that I think the banning of this aid was wrong at all. ;)
 
I guess if PD banned this from the outset in FIA and/or dailies, I wouldn't be annoyed about it. The fact they've let people use it for so long and to possibly rely on it just seems wrong to ban it now. Especially for people who won't have any impact on the FIA championships.
 
kilesa4568
I guess if PD banned this from the outset in FIA and/or dailies, I wouldn't be annoyed about it. The fact they've let people use it for so long and to possibly rely on it just seems wrong to ban it now. Especially for people who won't have any impact on the FIA championships.
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I think it's the perfect time to ban it tbh. It always should have been viewed as a crutch. How many test seasons have there been now? Plenty to "learn the ropes", now that it's the start of the season, let's put everyone on the same playing field.
 
kilesa4568
I guess if PD banned this from the outset in FIA and/or dailies, I wouldn't be annoyed about it. The fact they've let people use it for so long and to possibly rely on it just seems wrong to ban it now. Especially for people who won't have any impact on the FIA championships.
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This is true too, it should never have been allowed and it needs to be the same in dailies too and as you say even with it I wouldn't have beaten the guys who went (and those who were close to going) to the Nurb 24 special event.
 
ASH32
Traction Control is rubbish though and just slows you down unnecessarily. I suppose with A/B and lower drivers sure it may help but for those of us previously using this short-cut just to get a little nearer to the elite we now have to learn to drive properly again, to still be a second or more slower than the very best. :embarrassed::lol:

Not that I think the banning of this aid was wrong at all. ;)
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Haha that's the point I was making though. At least now without CSA we have no more crutches to put us nearer the top field :P
 
Just to add my thoughts on the removal of CSA from the FIA races.

I am in full support of this, I am old school and a great believer that driver aids are an evil act that hide the true potentional or skills
of a car owner/gamer so in the early days of this game I used to have them on but now where possible I try to reduce my use of
aids in the believe I will eventually become a better driver/racer without aids.

My only slight concern with the reduction of aids is some cars are delicate beasts (looking at you Red Bull X :)) so it would be nice
if the learning curve without TC etc wasn't so big compared to previous GT games.
 
Calmlity
The question is simply; is CSA used on real racing? I don't know about that; found nothing at the search on google though, but I am pretty sure it isn't.
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No, It's a made-up assist, unlike ABS and TC, which are very real and used in motorsports, as you said (GT3 cars have lots of different settings, more than 10 for TC).
 
ASH32
... but for those of us previously using this short-cut just to get a little nearer to the elite we now have to learn to drive properly again, to still be a second or more slower than the very best. :embarrassed::lol: ...
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Yes ! 👍 ... and I don't see anything wrong with that.

I can't understand for my life what makes being "nearer to the elite" so desirable when it's all due to some computer aid ;) ...
 
kilesa4568
I agree it's an over powered assist but only for the lower ranks who use it and who most definitely need it. They're not likely to muddy the FIA leader boards now are they?
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My problem is that I’m a high DR:B, which means I’ve got a mix of drivers who are decent without CSA, and bad drivers who are decent with CSA. If it was prohibited there would be a better gauge of skill level in races
 

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