Let's revisit counter-steering assist

[Sofia Speed]

In Sport Mode and depending on the track and car I sometimes use it....
For example I love the 458 Gr3 but without any assist is just undrivable and competitive in a race.... I set the TC to 1 or 2 and CSA to weak

 

[LeGeNd-1]

I've never used CSA, until this week's Fiat 500F races. The difference between it off and on is worlds apart. The car literally is on rails with CSA on, and a death trap with it off. At Suzuka East I shaved 1 second instantly by turning it on. It's laughable and definitely should be banned from all FIA races. Until then, I would have to reluctantly use it as I see no way to keep up speed/consistency wise online against the top drivers with it off. It ruins the physics, ruins FFB and ruins any reputability of the game. If they know it's artificial enough to turn it off in official events (like the Nurb one), they should also disable it in game for FIA races.

I don't know why PD keeps adding these physics altering aids since GT5P? First we have Arcade/Professional physics, then moving on to GT6 with SRF, and now GTS with CSA. The other aids in the game are actually based on real life (TCS, ASM, ABS, AT), and using them is slower than without (except ABS - because once again PD failed to implement it properly). In addition you have the auto brake/steering - if beginners can't keep cars on track with all those on, then CSA isn't going to help them. It's stupid, and we have issues like this and the SRF bug in GT6 ruining the level of playing field online.

As a side note - I think CSA is a much more powerful version of Active Steering in GT6. The only car where I would recommend Active Steering on is the Tomahawk X (because the yaw force from the wings are too much for a normal human to control accurately). Ironically, using CSA with the Tomahawk isn't as effective anymore (instead of smoothing the steering it overcorrects and you end up oscillating in corners). And if you're using a wheel it would destroy your FFB in a few laps. So not only have they made the assist more unrealistic and more intrusive, they have rendered their most OP car undrivable in GTS.

 

[mthomas_95]

They could do with nerfing it by a tenth or so, but it is definitely a bit slower with it on than off in 95%+ of cars in the game, and that's before we get to the worse tyre wear it generates.

Most top guys don't use it anymore for a reason. A couple do, but they risk embarrassing themselves at a live event/final so that's on them. If you gain chunks of time and consistency from CSA, chances are you're not as competitive in the first place as you'd like to think.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

In most cars, yes I agree the difference can be minimised if you're a good driver. But with the case of the Fiat 500 it's night and day. Go try it yourself if you don't believe me.

It's common sense really. If your car is stable or understeery, you don't need CSA. But in tail happy MR/RR cars and tracks with lots of destabilising corners and elevation changes, the gains of CSA will be more apparent.

I'm not aware of the tyre wear effect. Have yet to use CSA in an endurance race. Thanks for the heads up though.

I see the leaderboards and most top 10 still use it. I know I'm not FIA Championship material, so I don't care about embarrassing myself in the finals. I just need the 91 online wins trophy and that's it. But it's hard to know when someone beats you if they are better or if they use CSA. If you use CSA and beat everyone, you feel 🤬 for taking advantage of the situation for those who don't know CSA gives an advantage. Honestly, it's not that hard for PD to just grey out the option online. IMO they should focus on patching that instead of endless BOP changes which, let's face it, with the number of cars/tracks/drivers is never going to be perfect.

 

[Tou2istTrophy]

They could do with nerfing it by a tenth or so, but it is definitely a bit slower with it on than off in 95%+ of cars in the game, and that's before we get to the worse tyre wear it generates.

Most top guys don't use it anymore for a reason. A couple do, but they risk embarrassing themselves at a live event/final so that's on them. If you gain chunks of time and consistency from CSA, chances are you're not as competitive in the first place as you'd like to think.

95%?

The Monza Circuit Experience Gr.3 world record is with CSA strong. The world record Gr.4 nürburgring nordschleife time is with CSA strong. The GT3 RS Nürburgring record by shooter recently was with CSA strong. People getting 1:21.9 Gr.3 Brands Hatch with CSA strong, 1:27 Gr.4 with CSA Strong. The Kyoto Miyabi Gr.4 record was with CSA strong same with Yamigawa Gr.3. Basically all of the road car records by one of the fastest Japanese driver was with CSA strong. 1:35.5 Dragon Trail Gr.3 Circuit Experience with CSA strong. 1:53.8 Gr.3 Maggiore just the other day with CSA strong. I can literally go on all day...

It looks quite competitive to me.

They should definitely nerf it by a tenth or two.

 

[Knukel]

Before disabling CSA and other surreal assists they really should focus on making own correct tire type for each car class! There's no way to get accurate data, but i think that 90% of players still use RS/RSS for every single car & yet people talk about assists... (Open lobbies & single player)
Since GT1....

 

[Clean Racer]

Are there any real life race cars with Counter Steer Assist?

 

[LeGeNd-1]

Before disabling CSA and other surreal assists they really should focus on making own correct tire type for each car class! There's no way to get accurate data, but i think that 90% of players still use RS/RSS for every single car & yet people talk about assists... (Open lobbies & single player)
Since GT1....

We're talking about official FIA races with no tuning here. In open lobbies and single player, I don't care what people use.

Tyre staggering is an acceptable tactic in GT because PD messed up tyre width/grip relationship (has been since GT5 actually). MR/RR cars in real life have wider and grippier rear tyres, but this is not reflected in the game. Using stickier compounds in the rear is the only way to simulate this properly.

Are there any real life race cars with Counter Steer Assist?

No. It's a fake aid just like SRF in GT6.

 

[ARTAsean]

95%?

The Monza Circuit Experience Gr.3 world record is with CSA strong. The world record Gr.4 nürburgring nordschleife time is with CSA strong. The GT3 RS Nürburgring record by shooter recently was with CSA strong. People getting 1:21.9 Gr.3 Brands Hatch with CSA strong, 1:27 Gr.4 with CSA Strong. The Kyoto Miyabi Gr.4 record was with CSA strong same with Yamigawa Gr.3. Basically all of the road car records by one of the fastest Japanese driver was with CSA strong. 1:35.5 Dragon Trail Gr.3 Circuit Experience with CSA strong. 1:53.8 Gr.3 Maggiore just the other day with CSA strong. I can literally go on all day...

It looks quite competitive to me.

They should definitely nerf it by a tenth or two.

All that means is people who spend hundreds of hours constantly hitting pause>restart, leave CSA on, so that the smallest of mistakes don't ruin a run they spend hours building up to.

The proof is in the daily race leaderboards. You never see a #1 time with CSA on. And we are talking about people who will cut corners in the most ridiculous way just to gain a hundredth.

 

[Tou2istTrophy]

All that means is people who spend hundreds of hours constantly hitting pause>restart, leave CSA on, so that the smallest of mistakes don't ruin a run they spend hours building up to.

The proof is in the pudding . You never see a #1 time with CSA on. And we are talking about people who will cut corners in the most ridiculous way just to gain a hundredth.

Did you look at the times I just posted???????

You clearly haven’t been paying close attention to the leaderboards.

 

[barkohba]

*yawn* It's just an artificial aid (with no analogue in real-life aids, be them race cars or road cars). It's designed to be used MAINLY with controllers, as it's very very difficult to counter-steer with a stick (hence the name). Project Cars 2 added a similar aid a few patches back, specifically for controllers as well.

I tested it with my wheel and you do get faster lap times, no doubt, as you can be on the throttle much faster when exiting slow corners.


My advice for WHEEL users - try to learn to drive without it, it's more satisfying, and more importantly, more realistic, and thus will help with the immersion and experience you get out of the game. For CONTROLLER users - keep it on.

 

[Calmlity]

GT is never just a game. It's driving simulator. CSA should never exists. If you can't drive, then learn.

 

[phil_75]

"AlphaCider"

My apologies @Alpha Cipher

 

[Alpha Cipher]

My apologies @Alpha Cipher

 

[parkman_20]

Honestly, I quit playing online because of CSA, and the fact a DS4 is as fast as a wheel in the so-called "real driving simulator".. that's supposedly not a game but "sport". So anyhow I went back to iRacing... a shame really, because I love many things about GT Sport, like the increasing car and track list, the matchmaking, the online community etc..

 

[Krypton78]

I'm also for banning CSA not only from sports mode, but from the game. It's just cheating. If you want the safety of not to spin, you have already the chance of turning TCS on, but have to live with the consequences of beeing a little slower in fast turns. For me, even TCS still doesn't slow you down enough, you're still to fast with TCS/2.

The consequence is, I use CSA in sport mode, because I dont want to leave the advantage to the others.

Of course, you can say, if you don't want it, then turn it off and live with the consequence of driving in lower levels.

But, hey, to be honest, who is willing to do that?

The few ones, I see them spinning around after few laps, while others who are not better drivers as these, are staying nice and safe on the track

 

[bmxmitch]

I'm also for banning CSA not only from sports mode, but from the game. It's just cheating. If you want the safety of not to spin, you have already the chance of turning TCS on, but have to live with the consequences of beeing a little slower in fast turns. For me, even TCS still doesn't slow you down enough, you're still to fast with TCS/2.

The consequence is, I use CSA in sport mode, because I dont want to leave the advantage to the others.

Of course, you can say, if you don't want it, then turn it off and live with the consequence of driving in lower levels.

But, hey, to be honest, who is willing to do that?

The few ones, I see them spinning around after few laps, while others who are not better drivers as these, are staying nice and safe on the track

TCS is absolutely fine! Not everyone drives with a wheel, so its needed for DS4 useres like me.
But CSA? Hell no, get that crap banned in sport mode. It just feels so unnatural to drive with this on strong. And the advantage is outrageous.

If I see someone using a meta car and CSA on, I instantly lost all respect for that person

 

[GTWelsh]

TCS is absolutely fine! Not everyone drives with a wheel, so its needed for DS4 useres like me.
But CSA? Hell no, get that crap banned in sport mode. It just feels so unnatural to drive with this on strong. And the advantage is outrageous.

If I see someone using a meta car and CSA on, I instantly lost all respect for that person

It would also be pretty funny if they then get picked to go to those official events because they're top in the region, and then can't race anymore because they disable CSA well, funny for me, not funny for the top guy in the region that doesn't use CSA and is probably the better person to go to the event.

 

[bmxmitch]

It would also be pretty funny if they then get picked to go to those official events because they're top in the region, and then can't race anymore because they disable CSA well, funny for me, not funny for the top guy in the region that doesn't use CSA and is probably the better person to go to the event.

And they cant use a Megane or Supra for the event...

 

[Slapped]

I think that with games like GTS, PC2, AC etc, which are pretty much sandbox games for the most part, you go in and take out what you want. So for me it really isn't an issue if somebody wants to turn on all the assists and in game help if that's the way they want to play it. At the end of the day it's your choice and your choice alone.

If your goal is to be the fastest of the fastest in sport mode, and you feel that other drivers are getting an advantage out of a legal assist that you're not using, then turn the thing on and use it yourself. Real racing drivers aren't going to handicap themselves out of principle, even if they don't like driving that way. So why should you?

However the above is not my goal - if I wanted to drive that way then I'd probably have bought this instead.

No, for me lap times come second to the thrill of coming out of a corner, getting on the throttle, hearing the pitch of the tire squeal change, and getting opposite lock on and back again before the slide has even started, then watching the replay and seeing the car barely wobble at that point. That always puts a far bigger smile on face than a faster lap time.

As I said, you take from the game what you want.

 

[D-Max]

Todays Daily a BAthurst. 2:05.3 consistently in the qualifeying over 15 laps. I turn on CSA and post a 2:04.3in 3 laps. The advantage is annoying. I never ever use it as i prefer the raw feeling of having to handle the car

 

[Skiddy]

CSA is for .........

 

[mthomas_95]

I do agree that for FIA they should match live final regulations and prohibit it, but CSA is now only faster if you're not quick enough to be blunt. Don't care what Circuit Experience times are with hotlap merchants, PD certainly don't . The delta between CSA on/off should be slightly greater I agree.

Over a race distance with tyre wear it's definitely slower with it on than off. Hotlaps don't bring up it's biggest weakness, but we've moved on from the hotlapping GT Academy era (thank God ). You barely see it in Sport Mode top split in EMEA at least, as people have naturally got better at car control and don't want their fronts to be destroyed (same with ABS Default being preferred to Weak). It's like in the opening weeks when people could get Top 10's with TCS on, not possible now. It does elevate some drivers to a level they don't deserve, but so does other driving aids at the lower levels as people couldn't drive without them.

Basically some people need to look for a new excuse why they aren't winning

 

[Veinz]

That cheap and fake assist can go.

 

[ASH32]

If they ban CSA (I probably would even though I sometimes use it to be more competitive), then ASM needs banning too by the way, I've seen top times set with it on in some FF cars, like the Gr4 Audi TT for instance.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

If they ban CSA (I probably would even though I sometimes use it to be more competitive), then ASM needs banning too by the way, I've seen top times set with it on in some FF cars, like the Gr4 Audi TT for instance.

What does ASM do specifically? I mean, I know it stabilizes the car more, but what are the means that ASM does this? Throttle control, steering assist, etc.

The general consensus is that ASM is slower, but I never saw someone explain just how ASM works

 

[Veinz]

With practice, a person can be just as fast without CSA, just like they could be potentially just as fast (or faster) without ABS with enough practice. CSA mostly helps in the slow corners, if you use it you definitely do not have to work as hard as someone not using it. I hardly see any negatives in using it, other than it potentially making some cars feel a little less pointy which is a small price to pay for that kind of safety net.

The FIA races would be a farce if the "real driving simulator" allowed that assist, since it removes one of the aspects of good driving.

 

[ASH32]

What does ASM do specifically? I mean, I know it stabilizes the car more, but what are the means that ASM does this? Throttle control, steering assist, etc.

The general consensus is that ASM is slower, but I never saw someone explain just how ASM works

Don't think anyone knows exactly as it's a "fake" assist like CSA and it is slower except for some/maybe all front wheel drive cars, as the extra stability here seems to reduce the understeer they normally have and make them faster, at least over one lap, I don't know whether this aid increases tyre wear or not, if it does it won't be effective in a race, if it doesn't it'll be exploited.

 

[Alpha Cipher]

Don't think anyone knows exactly as it's a "fake" assist like CSA and it is slower except for some/maybe all front wheel drive cars, as the extra stability here seems to reduce the understeer they normally have and make them faster, at least over one lap, I don't know whether this aid increases tyre wear or not, if it does it won't be effective in a race, if it doesn't it'll be exploited.

Interesting...

 

[Slapped]

What does ASM do specifically? I mean, I know it stabilizes the car more, but what are the means that ASM does this? Throttle control, steering assist, etc.

The general consensus is that ASM is slower, but I never saw someone explain just how ASM works

In the real world it's generally referred to as Electronic Stability Control. It works by applying braking to individual wheels when a skid is detected in order to regain control of the car while it's still possible to do so.

More advanced versions may incorporate intelligent Electronic Differential Locking as well as Traction control and active suspension into the process.

How it works in GTS is anybody's guess.