London 2012 Olympics and Paralympics - General discussion

[Submerged]

So will the 4th place finishers get bronze when Ye Shiwen's medals get taken away (hopefully, if deserved)?

So you suspect that Ye Shiwen has been taking drugs?

What about the 15 year old breaststroke champ, Ruta Meilutyte? She's a year younger than Ye Shiwen and trains in the UK, even though her nationality is Lithuania? She's a year younger and is an Olympic Champion! But wait, she trains in the UK, so surely that must be ok?

The fact is, there are young swimmers who can and do post extremely fast times. Remember Ian Thorpe? He was a World Champion at 15 years old. Many people couldn't believe that this boy could defeat people much older than himself and yet he did.

I suspect it is because Ye Shiwen comes from China and that is making people make the connection between doping and China. I do not think that the Chinese sporting organisation would be *that* stupid to send swimmers that they knowingly takes drugs. Also, feeding drugs to a 16 year old is dangerous and foolhardy and I cannot see a swimming coach actually doing that, if they respect their swimmers and look after them as a world class coach should do.

The only reason why she seems to burst into the limelight is that the Chinese team don't compete with others unless its the Pacific, World and Olympic competitions. This means that the world outside China won't know the potential or the quality of the swimmers until they compete there.

I find that the American swimming coach statement that he believes her to be taking drugs rather tasteless and bad for the sport. Additionally, its a bit cheeky when the American Olympic team (track and field) has been known to have dopers as well.

Also with swimming, it is a strange old sport. You can have young swimmers and old swimmers in the same race and both have equal chance of becoming Olympic champions. Its bizarre and exciting at the same time.

 

[CAM]

I understand that, I was just asking IF she was guilty what would happen? I don't really think the country deal is why I'm concerned, just all the media attention. Sorry.

 

[photonrider]

Not a very pretty end to the ESP/USA Men's Beach Volleyball rallies.

 

[Submerged]

Yes, if she was found to have cheated by doping, then she would be asked to give the medals back or the medals would have been taken off (I am not sure which one actually), banned from competing for life (pretty much anyway) and would lose a lot of financial backing from sponsors (I assume she will be getting advertising sponsors now).

However, if she submitted a dope test that was tampered with, that's when things gets a bit complicated. The Irish swimmer, Michelle de Bruin (Michelle Smith now wiki link in 1998 for some reason, tainted her sample with excessive amounts of alcohol to make the sample useless. This was to cover up the fact that after her Olympic victories she was struggling to achieve the same high standards that she got in 1996. She was given a suspended sentence from competitions for 4 years.

I still cannot get over the fact that Marion Jones, the most successful competitor ever in track and field, did drugs and handed back all her medals that she won while doping. But because it was already awarded and some time ago, she still had all the rewards from winning the Olympics and World Championships and the money as well (Sponsor money, not prize). Gave a very bad message to the world.

Its because the American swimming coach said: "This I don't believe" at the wrong time which made the media pick it up and basically tarnish the victory. At the present moment, she has been clean so far.

 

[BJBEOSmitty]

China has had numerous athletes use banned substances. The USA's coach's comments were poorly timed, and although I did not hear exactly what he said - combined with the fact that the media everywhere is all over it/him - the exact quote is no longer the story. Regardless, it sounds like he put his foot firmly in his mouth and was completely in the wrong.

What is so unbelievable about other athletes using substances? Marion Jones or whomever? Unfortunately, it is part of athletics now. I am all for testing everyone with the most sophisticated tests available, and if a player breaks the rules, severe punishment should be handed down. Loss of medals, and a lifetime ban should do it.


But why is the WORLD suspect of the Chinese? They have a torrid past when it comes to illegal substances, maybe the worst of all time, or at least their goverment involvement is the worst of the modern era. They have made their bed, now they must lie in it. That's is how it SHOULD work.



http://www.smh.com.au/olympics/news...bjected-to-routine-doping-20120726-22v65.html

One exerpt, from a World Championships embarrassment by many Chinese... (my emphasis)

A routine customs check of a swimmer's bag found enough human growth hormone to supply the entire women's swimming team for the duration of the meet.



and


CHINESE Olympians were subjected to a state-sponsored doping regime which was modelled on eastern Europe, says a retired Chinese Olympic doctor.

Steroids and human growth hormones were officially treated as part of ''scientific training'' as China emerged as a sporting power through the 1980s and into the 1990s, she says.

Athletes often did not know what they were being injected with and medical staff who refused to participate were marginalised, she says.




No major nation (among Olympic powers and even marginal nations as well) is perfect in this area, including the USA of course.




And is this really surprising???

Internet searches for ''china'' and ''sports doping'' were blocked in Beijing yesterday, while a search for ''drugs'' coupled with the names of prominent athletes identified by Dr Xue resulted in the internet connection being temporarily severed.

I'm not surprised. We all know what they do to women who DARE to have more than one child.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Calm down, only 53 medals out of 302 have been won so far, still plenty of chances to get a gold medal.

We're not after a gold medal though. Considering the funding and ability of some of these athletes it's getting very frustrating.

Look at Judo, 2 highly ranked competitors out early for silly mistakes. Several others aren't hitting the medals either!

 

[Zenith]

I just need to touch base on this point again. Americans will understand.

The NBC announcers are horrid. They are obnoxiously and shamelessly chauvinistic. It is pain inducing to listen to their drivel.

 

[CAM]

The live stream swimming analysts during the day (primetime London time) aren't bad, but I do see what you're saying.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

So you suspect that Ye Shiwen has been taking drugs?

It's not that outrageous to think that elite athletes have at some point used PEDs. They could have taken her off before the Olympics.

 

[mattythedog]

I'm a bit late, but I just want to say how amazing the achievement of Michael Phelps is. Yes, he's not doing so well this time, but to get more medals than anyone else is outstanding!

For GB hopes today, I'd put money on us getting a gold, if I was over 18. Wiggo and Froome are doing the TT, and both of them beat Cancellara in the Tour TT, so I'd say a medal is pretty much a certainty. Also, we're in lots of rowing finals, and quite a few boats are medal certs.

 

[Barra333]

I'm a bit late, but I just want to say how amazing the achievement of Michael Phelps is. Yes, he's not doing so well this time, but to get more medals than anyone else is outstanding!

For GB hopes today, I'd put money on us getting a gold, if I was over 18. Wiggo and Froome are doing the TT, and both of them beat Cancellara in the Tour TT, so I'd say a medal is pretty much a certainty. Also, we're in lots of rowing finals, and quite a few boats are medal certs.

Cavendish was a certainty for gold in the road race too...

I agree though, GB should get an armload of medals today in the rowing. Hopefully Australia can pick up a few as well

 

[mattythedog]

Cavindish was never really a certainty, just a strong hope. We knew that if a strong break got away, and nobody else was willing to help, then Cav would be unlikely to win. With only a 5 man team, it's very difficult to control the race.

 

[Barra333]

Cavindish was never really a certainty, just a strong hope. We knew that if a strong break got away, and nobody else was willing to help, then Cav would be unlikely to win. With only a 5 man team, it's very difficult to control the race.

You and I know he was a strong hope, the media knew he was a certainty. Just like our media knew the mens 4X100m relay were certainties.
I thought Cav was a bit childish blaming the Aussie guys for riding negatively. A team of 5 is small, but they could have made a fist of chasing down the breakaway instead of expecting someone else to do it.

 

[mattythedog]

You and I know he was a strong hope, the media knew he was a certainty. Just like our media knew the mens 4X100m relay were certainties.
I thought Cav was a bit childish blaming the Aussie guys for riding negatively. A team of 5 is small, but they could have made a fist of chasing down the breakaway instead of expecting someone else to do it.

The media as always hyped everything up, but really Cav didn't have as much chance as everyone was saying. But back to today, I think Wiggo can win today, look at his TDF performance in the TTs.

 

[Barra333]

Yep, Wiggo is a huge chance in the TT, but off days aren't unheard of. Haven't seen the field though. Are many of the guys who placed highly in the TDF TTs in the field today?

 

[Omnis]

If there are whispers about PEDs, then, yes, the athlete is or has probably used them. It's more common than you'd think, unfortunately.

 

[hawkeye122]

Yep, Wiggo is a huge chance in the TT, but off days aren't unheard of. Haven't seen the field though. Are many of the guys who placed highly in the TDF TTs in the field today?

Not as many as you would think...

Gilbert, Menchov, Tony Martin, Chavanel, and Ryder Hesjadal are the only ones (apart from Froome, Cancellara, and Wiggins) who have chances at it.

Maybe Vinokurov with the Double-upset?

 

[mattythedog]

All I can see in there who could go for the win is Tony Martin or Cancellara. The others are good, but I don't see them challenging for the medals.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Britain also has a chance for a medal in men's gymnastics. Louis Smith could be in for a gold on the horse.

 

[Tired Tyres]

The media as always hyped everything up, but really Cav didn't have as much chance as everyone was saying. But back to today, I think Wiggo can win today, look at his TDF performance in the TTs.

Team GB telegraphed their tactical approach to that race ages ago. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out what to do if you know what your opponent is going to do. They were never going to get a medal doing that. If they had released David Millar to join any attack he though might be the right one, it might have been different.

If there are whispers about PEDs, then, yes, the athlete is or has probably used them. It's more common than you'd think, unfortunately.

It is very easy indeed to point a finger of accusation at another. There are no penalties for false accusation to put the vindictive off.

 

[Submerged]

I agree with the common assumption that doping is much more common than the average viewer would even assume.

There are many ways around the system of testing if you know what to do.

There are often many competitors who will skirt close to the mark of using controlled or banned substances just to either get a bit better or to prevent a dip in performance.

There is also blood boosting, which cannot even be measured by the Anti-Doping authority as far as I know. Blood boosting involves taking some measure of blood out of the body, storing it in the freezer, wait about a couple of hours for the body to replace the lost blood cells, then add back in the blood that you had taken out. It gives endurance competitors just that extra little bit of stamina.

With the Chinese competitors, they did have a systematic doping regime. So did the Eastern Europeans as well before the Chinese.

Nowadays I believe that it doesn't actually matter which country the competitors come from anymore, anyone could have taken drugs. Its just that with this accusation, it is easy to throw doubt on Ye Shiwen's results based on her nationality as well as the times she is setting, from the American side of the pond.

It just kinda smacks of jealously sometimes when someone sets a fast time and they cannot quite understand it why. It doesn't help that the Chinese team tend to have a different way of training and competitions to the American team so that is why they don't actually know what is going on with one another. If they had done, then there probably wouldn't be this situation in the first place (unsubstantiated claims based on heresy and preconceived notions)

 

[daan]

I'm a bit late, but I just want to say how amazing the achievement of Michael Phelps is. Yes, he's not doing so well this time, but to get more medals than anyone else is outstanding!

Having more events to take part in obviously helps. Imagine how many medals Steve Redgrave would have if he had done multiple events every Olympics...

I thought Cav was a bit childish blaming the Aussie guys for riding negatively. A team of 5 is small, but they could have made a fist of chasing down the breakaway instead of expecting someone else to do it.

They did try to chase it down but the breakaway was too big and too strong. The other teams who had a sprinter (Germany at least) should have helped Team GB out earlier instead of making us to all the work.

Yep, Wiggo is a huge chance in the TT, but off days aren't unheard of. Haven't seen the field though. Are many of the guys who placed highly in the TDF TTs in the field today?

I can't see past Wiggins for the gold. Froome, Martin, and Cancellara will challenge but, on his day, Wiggins has the beating of all of them. Remember also that Martin and Cancellara are nursing recent injuries. I don't see any of the other guys hawkeye mentioned as a thread, and Evans has pulled out of the TT

Team GB telegraphed their tactical approach to that race ages ago. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out what to do if you know what your opponent is going to do. They were never going to get a medal doing that. If they had released David Millar to join any attack he though might be the right one, it might have been different.

Agree with that. Putting all our eggs in Cav's basket was foolish. We should at least have had a plan B (getting Millar, Wiggins or Froome in the break)

 

[hawkeye122]

Team GB telegraphed their tactical approach to that race ages ago. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out what to do if you know what your opponent is going to do. They were never going to get a medal doing that. If they had released David Millar to join any attack he though might be the right one, it might have been different.

They could have fired Millar off the front, or Germany could have pulled their heads out of their... clouds, and helped Great Britain on the front. After all, Gripel was in it to win it too...

Heck, the "Soviet Union" could have helped Peter Sagan to the front.

I'm saying that the break could have been easily caught if the other sprinters were invested in getting at least a bronze. 55 Seconds is easily catch-able with 9 men on the front.




My TT list on the page before was TDF riders who might not come last. They have outside chances at a medal. Pretty much noone has a chance against Wiggins or Cancellara.

I'm going for Cancellara on this one... Wiggins may have won the Mid-race TT's last month, but there isnt a Prologue that Cancellara hasnt won. When he hasnt done 400 miles of riding in the days leading up, I reckon he's unstoppable. That why he's been the UCI TT World Champion.

 

[Omnis]

It is very easy indeed to point a finger of accusation at another. There are no penalties for false accusation to put the vindictive off.

Most top athletes are familiar with each other and have tremendous respect for each other. Therefore, doping rumors usually carry a lot of weight.

 

[mattythedog]

I'm going for Cancellara on this one... Wiggins may have won the Mid-race TT's last month, but there isnt a Prologue that Cancellara hasnt won. When he hasnt done 400 miles of riding in the days leading up, I reckon he's unstoppable. That why he's been the UCI TT World Champion.

I wouldn't be so sure. He only beat Wiggins by 7 seconds in the Tour Prologue, and this is a much longer distance than that. Wiggins is better over longer distances.

 

[Emptyone]

I wouldn't be so sure. He only beat Wiggins by 7 seconds in the Tour Prologue, and this is a much longer distance than that. Wiggins is better over longer distances.

27 miles only, not the 40 or so from the tour, but with Cancellara and Martin both carrying injuriess you'd have to fancy Wiggins, as long as he isn't too tired out from saturday's effort for Cav

 

[Omnis]

This is why I hate western fencing:

Celebrating like that when your opponent can clearly kill you were it a real fight. In Kendo that would be a hansoku.

The way fencers-- from the US especially-- celebrate is too over the top. This deserves a facepalm.

 

[SilverArrow]

I predict we're going to get 4 golds today.

 

[Ferrari_458]

Gold for Stanning and Glover in the rowing!!!

 

[Tired Tyres]

A Gold at last!

I'm surprised to hear that this is the first ever Olympic Gold for Britain's female rowers.