Lots of Games have it Now. Should GT 5 have a Rewind Option?

[Northstar]

Is there anything to suggest if the entire GTP community was polled the result would be different?

If you polled a pro football team asking them whether or not referees should be allowed to use instant replay to clear up plays the result of the polling of one team would be the same throughout the entire league because they all have the same ideals and mentality.

I think it's pretty sad that so many excuses are being made when its obvious the majority does not want rewind.

Yes, it would be different because there are thousands of people here all with different opinions and views. As I have said before you need at least 10% of a given population to reach a valid idea. Obviously 230 isn't 10% of 120,000. Even than it wouldn't be valid because this isn't a balanced voting platform.

Also, why do you keep using analogies that don't have anything to do with the topic. If you polled 100 guys on whether or not they would go out with Jessica Alba they would all say the same thing as would every other straight male on the planet. Now what that has to do with rewind in a video game is something I am hoping you can tell me.

Now since you referenced the whole football thing, you couldn't just poll the players, you would also have to poll the coaches, owners, analysists, fans etc. Now after you would have polled all them the result may vary, why? Because people have these things called opinions and they vary from person to person.

As for our "excuses", you are guilty of the same thing you are accusing everyone else as.

So far you have used little to no actual facts and are using a flawed poll(not at the fault of the creator) as your only thing to base your point on. Show me one international scientific poll that shows that a majority of GT players (which is not the same as GTP) don't want rewind and you have a valid argument.

 

[Devedander]

And as a follow up of the polling football players.

First off, GTP is broken down into lots of subforums, many of which probably have somemembers who don't cross into other forums. So a poll of GT5 is not representative of a poll of GTP in the same way a poll of linebackers is not the same as a poll of a whole football team.

Then even a whole football team isn't representative of the league becuase how your team plays will probably result in calls going your way or aganist in a large percentage of situations. One team might really want video replay as they feel they play tight, fair and solid yet plays still go against them very often or vice versa.

So one team might well vote strongly for or against video replay and not at all represent the league as a whole.

Then look at it from a sales point of view (earth having brought up how rewind would supposedly hurt sales).

Well what if every team voted for no video replay but fans all wanted video replay?

Who is the more serious in this group, the fans or the players? I would say the guys on the ground wearing out their bodies, training and working hard to become pros are the ones who are the most serious. They are the cream of the crop.

But you gotta remember that what is best for the players isn't always best for the sport.

And what the hardcore feel, isn't always best for the game.

 

[Stratosphere03]

This is sooooo freaking hillarious! *grabs a bag of popcorn*

 

[DragoonRaven]

Rewind should have never been incorporated into racing games in the first place. Unfortunately, now that it has, there will always be a bunch of talentless babies expecting it no matter what.

GET BETTER AT RACING.

 

[McLaren]

GT5P is easy? How? It should be noted GT5P does not simulate tire heat like previous GTs so saying the race tires are too grippy is unfounded because the tires are at 100% optimum temperature because there is no tire changing in the simulation.

I just told you how.

The high powered cars in GT are just too easy to drive fast. No one has jumped into a Viper for their first time with no major racing experience and blitzed the track.

You say because the F1 is too easy? Aa Formula 1 car is suppose to be one of the better handling cars.

Better handling does not equate to being easy to drive.

Jeff Gordon (NASCAR) drove one for the first time at Indy, and other then a few lockups he got within a second or two of Montoya's best within 5 laps. He commented on how it was the best handling racecar he has ever raced and how it braked, accelerated and turned perfectly. They're not the hardest cars to drive, but they are probably the hardest cars to push to the limit.

Jeff Gordon is a pro racing driver, you tool. Of course he's going to understand how a race car works. Your logic....

Please don't post a video of some chipmunk looking guy from Top Gear who has no idea what hes doing screw around with a F1 car. That hardly is anything to go by.

Because you can drive a F1 car better right?

Have you driven a Ferrari F40 in GT5P on S2 tires? I doubt many will find that easy. I own GTR2, rFactor, and NASCAR 2003, three of the greatest racing sims ever made. Some cars in GT5P on certain tires are more difficult to drive then any of those sims.

Yeah, ok. That's why GTR2 & rFactor are quoted as having high learning curves while you can just pick up and play GT.

Difficulty does not say how good a sim is. I noticed you said something about a Ferrari game that was so difficult for consoles. Again, difficulty has nothing to do with how good a sim is. Accuracy is what matters.

Hmm, nope, wrong Earth. Difficulty does play a role.

If a car is difficult to drive in real life to the average joe, a game should reflect that & make it difficult to drive in game. That means the accuracy is there. If a car like a stock car is difficult for Average Joe to drive, but the game suddenly makes it easy as pie, obviously the accuracy isn't completely there.

It's exactly why I critique GT & Forza for their race cars. I can set lap times equal to that of people with actual experience in certain race cars, in both games. But, I know for a fact, I could never do that in real life.

I dont need to back up the claim. It's common sense and the law of averages demands it. Knowing that I can't test it in a controlled labatory as you would have me you go ahead and say I shouldn't say these things. You are taking the easy way out, not me.

My point exactly. You can't prove rewind is the sole cause of poor racers online and so you use common sense to "justify" yourself.

I'm done on this point.

It's no different then all the bad drivers who flooded GT5P online a few days after it was released thanks to all the game saves that were uploaded to this site and others. I never said rewind will be 100% at fault for bad driving online. I have only said it will contribute to the problem. From your claims it can be asserted that you think rewind will make better online drivers. I think it will make worst online drivers.

Yes, you have. You very well implied rewind will be the cause of all the folks who can't control cars online. Back

The chances are high that alot of casuals/mainstream will aquire vehicles that they will not be able to control to a safe degree online by means of rewind.

You say that having the ability to rewind your every mistake will make better drivers as they will find the limit of their cars better etc etc. This is not true. It's quite obvious in every Forza 3 video I have seen the drivers are wreckless. They make a mistake, whoops, rewind it right back, brake a bit earlier, still boss the AI in front out of the way.

Except I've never said that.

And everything you see does not depict everyone else. I watched Forza 3 today in the flesh, something you've never done. I saw some of the worst drivers playing with cars they couldn't control. And not one used rewind despite it flashing on the screen.

What you or I see, does not stand for everyone else. Don't push it as fact.

You have the same problem with rewind. Constantly having a graphic on screen telling you to rewind a mistake is also telling the driver its OK to make mistakes. They are not being punished for making mistakes.

During the offline game. Online, everything you do, you can not rewind.
And yes, people are punished for using the feature. We've told you this before.

Yes, you and others manipulated the poll results.

Just stop Earth.
Taking 63% of the voters in this poll, and using it to describe 90% of the entire GT fanbase is manipulation when this poll doesn't contain even 20% of GTP's user base.

Stop debating this issue, esp. when 2 others have already called you out for it.

 

[cletus 669]

This is sooooo freaking hillarious! *grabs a bag of popcorn*

👍 +1 And grab me a beer please.

 

[Organ-Donor]

Jeff Gordon is a pro racing driver, you tool.

No need for personal insults. You can get your point across without namecalling.

Stop debating this issue, esp. when 2 others have already called you out for it.

Either way you debate the issue, people are going to have different views. In the end, the poll results speak for itself.

 

[Lucas]

Better handling does not equate to being easy to drive.

And just for the record, one of my first posts at GTPlanet with my old user account, now rightfully banned at request. This is what Scaff replied to me.

In case you guys are not interested to read all of it, here's the important bit.

Now in regard to your 'a good car is one that is easy to handle', can I ask exactly what real world experience you base this 'fact' on.

I ask because its quite simply not true, some the most reknowned handling cars in the world are not easy to drive on the limit.

Lets take a quick example, the Lotus Elise, a car that is acknowledged as a wonderful handling car, but anyone who has driven one seriously will also tell you that its a very, very tricky car right on the limit.

Same with the Ferrari 360, great car, wonderful handling, but step over the limit even slightly and off you go backwards into the trees.

The great (late) motoring writer LJK Setright said, 'no car is too easy to drive fast'.

Funny, the Lotus Elise ended up to be one of my favourite cars thanks to that reply.

Anyhow, if someone believes this poll has fructuated the votes, then please, go ahead and make a new poll if you dare to, like I did in the first place when I deemed the original poll "flawed", because with this new poll of amar212, nobody will like to see a new useless poll soon. Therefore, this poll is the one that counts.

 

[Devedander]

people are going to have different views. In the end, the poll results speak for itself.

Yes the poll speaks for itself, it's how people understand it that is being discussed and also what points people try to use it to back up.

 

[Organ-Donor]

Yes the poll speaks for itself, it's how people understand it that is being discussed and also what points people try to use it to back up.

That is why I said "Either way you debate the issue" before what you quoted me saying, the part you left out.

 

[McLaren]

Either way you debate the issue, people are going to have different views. In the end, the poll results speak for itself.

It has nothing to do with a different view, but more of twisting poll results.

63% of what was originally under 220 people voting does not equal 90% of the millions of GT fans, nor does it equal the majority of GTP's users.

 

[aspect8]

From a "hardcore sim" stand point, rewind has no place in GT.

I lolled. I don't think hardcore sim means what you think it means. Either that, or you don't know what it's actually trying to simulate. Thinking of any game that allows you to turn on TCS, ABS and ESC in a '67 corvette and then drive around following a racing line projected onto the track, pausing whenever you want as a "hardcore sim" is ridiculous. For the record GT, Forza and Shift all allow you to do every one of these things.

You're allowed to have your opinion, of course. But justifying it from "a hardcore sim" stand point is... dumb. You'll be able to use this argument when Gran Turismo removes all of the aids mentioned above. Until then, GT is still a game, with some simulation elements. Let's call them "softcore sims".

 

[Organ-Donor]

63% of what was originally under 220 people voting does not equal 90% of the millions of GT fans, nor does it equal the majority of GTP's users.

Either way you word it, the majority of the people that voted on this poll on this website voted they would not like to see rewind in the game.

 

[Devedander]

Either way you word it, the majority of the people that voted on this poll on this website voted they would not like to see rewind in the game.

That's a lot of qualifiers about the people involved in this poll.

Regardless, just because a million people believe some flawed logic, doesn't mean it's not flawed logic.

There were a lot of women in Salem Massachusettes around 1690 would probably have been happy to explain how the majority can be woefully wrong.

 

[McLaren]

Either way you word it, the majority of the people that voted on this poll on this website voted they would not like to see rewind in the game.

That still doesn't equal 90% of GT's user base as Earth claims.

 

[Organ-Donor]

That still doesn't equal 90% of GT's user base as Earth claims.

My response had nothing to do with Earth.

 

[McLaren]

My response had nothing to do with Earth.

And your original response had nothing to do with different views. I told Earth to stop debating the fact he turned 63% of 220 people into a representative figure for 90% of the entire GT user base.

 

[Organ-Donor]

And your original response had nothing to do with different views. I told Earth to stop debating the fact he turned 63% of 220 people into a representative figure for 90% of the entire GT user base.

My original response:

Either way you debate the issue, people are going to have different views. In the end, the poll results speak for itself.

 

[Earth]

Every GT on a home console.

Skidmarks are as worthless as GT's overdone graphics. I'm not going to point out something that only effects the first .5 seconds of a race, so no I'm not talking about launches. The race cars in Forza had more noticeable power oversteer. that felt more like it did when I drove on race slicks in reality. In GT, they break away slow and are pretty easy to catch early. In Forza and real life, I couldn't really cut them off as they came out, I had to regain control and reel them in.

This is the type of car I drove:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdAXhRb8bzo

My first question is, do you use a wheel or pad with the consoles?

From all the racing I've seen on television oversteer coming out of a corner is caught and corrected quickly, most of the time with a quick counter steer of the wheel. This is how most of the power oversteer is corrected in GT5P. Some cars are easier to correct then others. Some snap free quickly, some gradually, and can be gradually corrected.

If all the cars in Forza have over steer corrected using the same method that is a problem with the physics, in my opinion, going off of what I have seen in all my years of viewing races and onboard cameras. Correcting over steer by using the same method of slowly correcting it in a corner is a knock on the physics in my opinion. I have heard people complain about Forza 3 cars all handling pretty much the same, and if they all behave and have the same way of correcting over steer this confirms a flaw in the simulation.

For example, the Nissan GTR in GT5P. I loved this car and was rather quick with it because it handled the way I wanted it to in it's default setting. Neutral going into the corners, a slight power over steer on exits. However the Mine's GTR is a very snappy car when it comes to power oversteer. But the Ferrari 599 pushes like a dump truck on exit, and there is no oversteer at all, but only understeer no matter how you try and set up the car.

What's you point? That defying physics is better than defying time? Aracde physics is pretty much pointless compared to pro. It exists to give people a reason to buy the game if they can't drive pro. It can't train or make them better driver.

My point is that rewind is not a very good tool to use to teach people how to race simulators.

Again, we're back to the point about two evils. The standard physics in GT are probably some of the worst physics I have ever experienced, even in Arcade games. Most arcade racers give me more feel then the standard physics.

However PD has decided to add the feature. Rewind is not so why should PD add another bad feature?

Rewind can improve skill. I read above that you said a percentage will use it sloppily and go online causing havoc. Completely ignoring your option to only race the hundreds of people from here and using confirmed private rooms, what makes you think the majority of rewinders will cause a problem? Where is your evidence? Why can't the majority learn and become better from it and then increase the value of your and everyone else's GT experience?

Instead of taking the easy path as so many have done and asking you to prove how rewind can improve skill, I'll tell you how it does more harm then good.

The little that can be learned from rewind will outweigh the bad that will come from it.

Rewind does not teach discipline nor does it teach you to learn from your mistakes. If someone followed you around your entire life, and every time you attempted to do something wrong they stopped you, would this always be good for you? Sometimes its better to learn the hard way and suffer the consequences. This way you will be extra sure to not make the same mistake twice.

You may say that those who rewind only do it AFTER they suffer the consequences. Again, in real life if you could rewind time after every mistake you made would that encourage you to not make the same mistake twice? No. It would encourage you to be wreckless as rewind does.

I thought the poll was setup so you could vote no you don't want it and the the never use it part was an optional extra so it's not ANOTHER 25% it's just to same person voting on two different poll options at once... maybe I am wrong, I already voted and thought I voted for I won't use it but also voted I want it becuase I think it woudl help others and not hurt me. That's why I am only counting the wants, don't wants, and don't cares. I said up front though the poll had too many choices. I think this one is better than the previous, but has too many choices.

Which is exactly why the multiple choice poll, no matter how pure the intentions were, should have never been created. The first poll created a resounding 90%+ NO.

You can't really posite that. How many things have you seen and though "what's the point of that" and once you use it you realize "holy cow this is aweseom" and now it's part of your daily life. So no, you can't assume that because you don't care now you won't use it later... many of those who don't care now might well try it, totally like it and be happy it's in! That's kind of how don't care works.

I'm sure if PD gave the user the option to start with 10,000,000 credits alot of people would say it is wrong in a poll, but once they got the title they would say it was awesome and go against what they voted.

Just because they may give in to the temptation of a bad feature does not mean it is a good feature. Alot of bad things are fun, but are they right?

If someone resists taking drugs his whole life as he sees them as wrong, but one night he gets high and says it was awesome does that mean he was simply missing out his entire life? Or should he have never been given the choice to take the drugs? The answer is obvious.

Forcing Rewind on everyone would dumb down GT, I mean if every crash resulted in a rewind then yes it would. But as an option it doesn't dumb down GT, it provides an optional tool, that if you don't use, then had no effect whatsoever on your GT experience.

An optional tool that can be considered sleazy and a 'fad'.

There are far better answers then rewind, one of them is GTR's track sector trainer .

Why should it be there? I think we all hate bad drivers... we all especially hate the ones that gave up learning how to drive well and the only fun they can have is smashing you around online...

We should give as many tools as we can to learning and weaker drivers in hopes that they will use then to learn how to improve rather than just give up.

Again, rewind is not the answer. Rewind only encourages wreckless driving. To learn how to race cars in a simulator takes alot of time, like the real thing. There is no quick fix. Many may claim rewind is some sort of quick fix, but its the equivalent of spraying cologne on top of dung. It does nothing but cover up terrible driving habits. If they don't know how to race a course practice it or turn on the racing line. No need for a gimmicky, 'fad' cheat.

And again, assuming that rewind dumbs down anything is just that an assumption. It provides a facet that can be exploited and abused, but so does almost anything else. It could turn out to be a great learning tool that helps a lot of bad drivers become decent drivers... woudl you consider that dumbing down GT?

It won't turn out to be anything because its a fad that B-rated wanna be sims started that Forza copied. Adding a cheat to help bad drivers would indeed be dumbing down Gran Turismo. Adding a track sector trainer would make much more sense.

Someone better alert facebook and myspace

I don't think that's true and I don't think it's even something you could come close to arguing succesfully with factual data.

It is true, very true actually. If there is this mythical GT website out there that is bigger then the planet I would like to know about it.

First off, it's a gaming forum, so it's already less diverse than forums which don't cater to gaming alone.

While GTPlanet does have sub forums for a variety of gaming, at it's core it is 100% about Gran Turismo. You will not find a non-Gran Turismo or Gran Turismo related story on the front page.

I am a member of lots of forums, and I can tell you that GTP is neither the biggest nor most diverse forum I belong to let along any forum and let alone any WEBSITE.

It is the biggest website/forum focused on Gran Turismo

Sorry, unless you have some data and graphs to back that up (which I don't think you do because it's a pretty outrageous claim) I am going to say you are totally making a false statement.

I'm guessing your calling GTPlanet owner Jordan a liar, as I have seen "World's largest Gran Turismo community" plastered pretty much everywhere.

To use my gun control analogy, you MIGHT be at the biggest shooting range in the world, but even then, you aren't at the biggest building in the world and you are still polling a skewed audience.

If the poll was close you might have an argument. But the poll was never close.

It's not an excuse, it's a statement. BTW do you mean every forum, or the GT5 forum here at GTP? Becuase I would be curiuos how you searched every forum on the whole internets to find that out.

I dont have to search every Gran Turismo releated forum to find a resounding "NO" when asked about rewind. As I've said, GTPlanet members are no different then Gran Turismo fans from some other website. They enjoy Gran Turismo and what it is about. Rewind and Gran Turismo is like Korea and Barbeque. The two words should not be uttered in the same sentence and the majority of GT fans understand that.

And as I said, numbers don't make you right. Do you think we should go communist because China did? I mean they have a much larger population so they must be right?

Majority rules. It does in democracy. It does when it comes to rewind. While the majority may not always be right, that is not the issue here. A very weak excuse for the poor showing rewind has had in the polls here in GTP.

Depends on what you are addressing... from a marketing and sales standpoint, the casual players $ is just as green as yours or mine.

Casuals are flaky. They come and go. The diehard are the fans that matter and are the fans PD will cater to. Theya re the ones that will be there on launch day when GT5 launches. Kaz knows this. PD knows this. Casuals will be in some back room playing some casual game like Halo and contemplating whether or not to get GT5 or FM3 because of some sucktacular feature like rewind.

Well, considing I have played a lot of Grid and it had rewind and I rewound the crap out of it in the begining until the novelty wore off... yes I do think people will eventually grow out of rewind, just like people grow out of using the T in tball.

Did you stop using it because you got better or because it you got tired of it? Obviously you just got tired of it breaking your rhythm as IsmokeGT brought up a few pages back. It's a gimmick, a fad. As a result of abusing it, as I thought most would, you learned no discipline and you ended up not better off, as I thought most would.

There are 2 signifncant kinds of people, those who play to get better and want a challege, and those who play to play and don't care if they get better and thus probably won't.

And Gran Turismo is not for them

In fact, pretty much any game is not for them if they don't care to get better at it. They should go play some game that they care to get better at and quit crying for lousy features in GT so they can enjoy the slick graphics without looking like fools.

For the former group, rewind will be a great starting tool that they will outgrow. Eventually the challenge and satisfaction of doing it without rewind will ween them off it, just like training wheels and baseball Ts.

When I started to learn a bike I never used training wheels. I learned rather quickly without training wheels. In fact, rewind, just like training wheels does very little to help you learn.

The latter group... well they weren't really giong to get better anyway, they were the "7 year old boys" (generalization) who want to smash stuff and screw around and don't care. They are just going to be as bad as they were anyway.

So you can help some and the others... well they are just as bad as before. So it seems why not help those you can and the others, hey that's how it was gonna be anyway.

BTW the Forza demo has been out for a few days/weeks right? And there are lots of videos showing off the new feature (which admittedly can be quite fun and some eye candy)? I wouldn't say that's enough to base too much of an opinion of the long term on. I mean a huge number of the videos for any racing game invovle spectacular crashes... does that mean that most people are only interested in crashing?

Doesn't change the fact that in 95% of the Forza videos I've seen there was at least one instance of rewinding, most of the videos had multiple incidents.

Yes, the point was common sense says that a few games already have rewind, and nothing earthshatteringly bad has happened due to it, so if you are giong to draw any conclusions, it should be that your fears are unfounded.

As I said, your example was flawed because you picked something in which empircal evidence (ie it actually happened before) says you are right.

In this case, empirical evidence says you are wrong.

Those few games?

Grid, Dirt, a bunch of B list games flaunting a gimmicky feature around like rewind. Forza, which wants to be on top of the lattest fads, jumps on the feature not considering the consequences or even better options to rewind.

And they both let you complete the race and B spec doesn't in any way make you a better driver. At least rewind means you had to finish the race and if you had to make the turn (even if it took you 10 tries) that's more likely to improve your driving skills than not doing it at all right?

I am not saying b spec isn't different from A spec, I am just saying it has even less merrit than rewind in terms of any postive effect on the player.

B-Spec is an entirely different mode from A-Spec. Its like NFL head coach. So what if your not the one actually throwing the ball or making the tackle. You call the shots and that's the point.

Well it's fine you don't think they will. But just remember that's what you think, that's all and that it's not in any way a fact.

Now as for proof? Well as you said, some things can't be proved in a laboratory with test tubes, so the only proof I could offer is to look around at empircal evidecne in similar situations and draw an educated guess:

Personal experience: Every driving aid to date I have tried. Early on in my gaming days I needed most of them and to some point badly. The result, I outgrew them. That's just me though, not a large sample by anymeans, but it proves that it's at least possible.

Look at similar situations: Training wheels, baseball T's, Bumpers in bowling and mulligans in golf. How many people have you seen who don't outgrow those things eventually? Logic says that by human nature, outgrowing your handicaps and aids is what most people will do. Not saying everyone will, but quite a few.

So I can't time travel and do a study and find absolute proof for you, but the educated guess certainly seems to favor outgrowing your aids.

So yeah... what you seem to have is a fear of something bad happening rampantly that hasn't happened yet in other circumstances where this same device has already been implimented and seems fear driven of the worst case scenario. It's like the fear that legalizing marijuana will bring rampant crime and violence with widespread drug use... Well... we look at countries which have legalized marijuana and we see that fear is unfounded...

I am not saying you are absoutely certainly wrong, I am not psychic and I can't tell what the future brings.

But what I am saying is that you are ignoring reason in favor of fear and eschewing logic in favor of irrationality.

I'm using logic to understand that rewind is a very poorly thought out feature. I am more concerned at PD implementing a fad feature when there are so many better options out there.

Not everyone outgrows handicaps.

I know of very good drivers who still use the racing line, traction control or other assists.

Those assists can be used online and are far superior to rewind.

The point is some will outgrow rewind, but in my opinion, which is based on what I've seen, is that most won't and it will do more harm then good to their drivng habits in the long run.

Yes, it would be different because there are thousands of people here all with different opinions and views. As I have said before you need at least 10% of a given population to reach a valid idea. Obviously 230 isn't 10% of 120,000. Even than it wouldn't be valid because this isn't a balanced voting platform.

No different then how they can predict a political winner with less then half a state reporting. Even only with a few precincts reporting. If you hold a vote in a red state, and the results of a poll come out from the first county and its 9-1 republican it's obvious whos going to win the state.

Also, why do you keep using analogies that don't have anything to do with the topic. If you polled 100 guys on whether or not they would go out with Jessica Alba they would all say the same thing as would every other straight male on the planet. Now what that has to do with rewind in a video game is something I am hoping you can tell me.

Now since you referenced the whole football thing, you couldn't just poll the players, you would also have to poll the coaches, owners, analysists, fans etc. Now after you would have polled all them the result may vary, why? Because people have these things called opinions and they vary from person to person.

I think you would still get the same result. People from the same community/area/sport whatever tend to think alike. It's very rare you will get a split. College football fans may be split over whether or not there should be a playoff. But they probably all agree the BCS should be changed.

As for our "excuses", you are guilty of the same thing you are accusing everyone else as.

So far you have used little to no actual facts and are using a flawed poll(not at the fault of the creator) as your only thing to base your point on. Show me one international scientific poll that shows that a majority of GT players (which is not the same as GTP) don't want rewind and you have a valid argument.
__________________

The original poll that was 9-1, should have been more then enough to prove the majority of GT players do not want rewind. In the above paragraphs I have given reasons as to how you can understand how an entire community even from a small sampling.

You know, while we're add it GT needs to include all the latest gaming fads. I want PD to give us the ability to buy powerups. Like Madden. Instead of giving my players a 10% rating boost for one play for $1, I want to pay PD $2 to get 50 more HP for an entire 24 hour race. Let's just throw all the fads out there into GT.

First off, GTP is broken down into lots of subforums, many of which probably have somemembers who don't cross into other forums. So a poll of GT5 is not representative of a poll of GTP in the same way a poll of linebackers is not the same as a poll of a whole football team.

Your overtalking this broken up think. Not that many people joined Gran Turismo Planet to discuss Formula 1 first and foremost.

Then even a whole football team isn't representative of the league becuase how your team plays will probably result in calls going your way or aganist in a large percentage of situations. One team might really want video replay as they feel they play tight, fair and solid yet plays still go against them very often or vice versa.

So one team might well vote strongly for or against video replay and not at all represent the league as a whole.

Then look at it from a sales point of view (earth having brought up how rewind would supposedly hurt sales).

Well what if every team voted for no video replay but fans all wanted video replay?

Who is the more serious in this group, the fans or the players? I would say the guys on the ground wearing out their bodies, training and working hard to become pros are the ones who are the most serious. They are the cream of the crop.

But you gotta remember that what is best for the players isn't always best for the sport.

And what the hardcore feel, isn't always best for the game.

And the fans are the players and they matter most and they've spoken in the polls. It doesn't matter what the owners/coaches/PD want. What the fans want is what matters.

The fans have spoken

Your not listening to them.

Rewind should have never been incorporated into racing games in the first place. Unfortunately, now that it has, there will always be a bunch of talentless babies expecting it no matter what.

GET BETTER AT RACING.

They think its a great tool to learn how to race.

Problem is it's probably the worst tool possible to give someone to help them learn to race.

They do need to just get better at racing.

How do they do that?

Practice practice practice

NOT

Rewind rewind rewind

I just told you how.

The high powered cars in GT are just too easy to drive fast. No one has jumped into a Viper for their first time with no major racing experience and blitzed the track.

And who does that in GT5P on sports tires? I know I surely didn't.

Better handling does not equate to being easy to drive.

That sounds like an oxymoron.

Jeff Gordon is a pro racing driver, you tool. Of course he's going to understand how a race car works. Your logic....

And you completley missed my point.

Because you can drive a F1 car better right?

In a controlled simulated environment, yes.

Yeah, ok. That's why GTR2 & rFactor are quoted as having high learning curves while you can just pick up and play GT.

Quoted? I dont care what was quoted. I have first hand experience with these simulators. Once the tires are heated up GTR2 is a piece of cake to me. Same thing with rFactor and NASCAR 2003. Because I have no problem controlling these cars does not mean they are inaccurate simulators.

Why do you think rich businessman race in the LeMans 24 hours? With a few years of training and practicing and going through the paces you too can drive in the 24 hours of LeMans if your rich enough and have marginal talent.

Hmm, nope, wrong Earth. Difficulty does play a role.

If a car is difficult to drive in real life to the average joe, a game should reflect that & make it difficult to drive in game. That means the accuracy is there. If a car like a stock car is difficult for Average Joe to drive, but the game suddenly makes it easy as pie, obviously the accuracy isn't completely there.

A real professional driver will not have too man problems adjusting to a different type of racecar. He may not be fast, but he won't struggle to keep it under control and should be able to produce decent laps.

The same applies to an experienced sim racer. If you have experience with realistic car racing physics you will be able to get the hang of racing cars much quicker then an "average Joe"

It's exactly why I critique GT & Forza for their race cars. I can set lap times equal to that of people with actual experience in certain race cars, in both games. But, I know for a fact, I could never do that in real life.

You can do that for many reasons. First off, the physics will never be 100% correct. Second off, there is only so much a sim can simulate. The g-forces, the threat of crashing, track conditions are always supreme in simulators, the cockpit view, everything. Everything says you should post just as fast a time if not faster then the real thing.

A bit funny you pick on Forza and Gran Turismo, as these titles have to simulate an extremely large range of vehicles and aren't as specific as GTR2.

My point exactly. You can't prove rewind is the sole cause of poor racers online and so you use common sense to "justify" yourself.

I'm done on this point.

I'm done too. You copped out by telling me to prove something like I can go test it in a laboratory.

Yes, you have. You very well implied rewind will be the cause of all the folks who can't control cars online. Back

Nope, did not say everyone, alot of suggestive words used.

Except I've never said that.

And everything you see does not depict everyone else. I watched Forza 3 today in the flesh, something you've never done. I saw some of the worst drivers playing with cars they couldn't control. And not one used rewind despite it flashing on the screen.

What you or I see, does not stand for everyone else. Don't push it as fact.

Then maybe they found out that rewind doesnt make them any better?

I'm pushing what I've seen.

During the offline game. Online, everything you do, you can not rewind.
And yes, people are punished for using the feature. We've told you this before.

How are they being punished?

Just stop Earth.
Taking 63% of the voters in this poll, and using it to describe 90% of the entire GT fanbase is manipulation when this poll doesn't contain even 20% of GTP's user base.

Stop debating this issue, esp. when 2 others have already called you out for it.

Nice job trying to play mind games.

I know your trying to be a mod, and you think you are putting on a good show by trying to "straighten" me out.

Sucks, because I've seen alot of good members go bad fast shortly before and after they became mods. Messes with alot of people.

 

[RedSuinit]

Geez, I don't even want to know how long that post took to write..... But I read the whole thing, and BOTH sides of the argument have made some good points. HOWEVER, this is getting to the point where you are all back right where you started, and are going to go around the same long winded circle all over again. My advice? Let it go, it's consuming a LOT of your time and energy.

 

[RACECAR]

 

[Lain]

Geez, I don't even want to know how long that post took to write..... But I read the whole thing, and BOTH sides of the argument have made some good points. HOWEVER, this is getting to the point where you are all back right where you started, and are going to go around the same long winded circle all over again. My advice? Let it go, it's consuming a LOT of your time and energy.

👍

 

[Bogie 19th]

Both polls clearly show how a majority of the folks here at GTP feel.

Indeed. But that poll only represents the most hardcore of GT gamers. The other 5 million GT fans (and future fans) know nothing about this website.

From a "hardcore sim" stand point, rewind has no place in GT.

Not as a mandatory feature, no.

The debate is over, PD can only hurt its sales and its reputation by adding this feature based on this poll.

How is that? By putting in an optional feature that these people don't have to use?

 

[turbomp301]

You have no basis for saying this. Unless only 229 people are buying GT5.

And as has been said before, rewind and sim do not conflict.

Indeed. But that poll only represents the most hardcore of GT gamers. The other 5 million GT fans (and future fans) know nothing about this website.



Not as a mandatory feature, no.



How is that? By putting in an optional feature that these people don't have to use?

You say rewind and sim dont conflict? I guess its a fact then.

IMO, GT already has enough non-sim features and I really dont care to throw another turd on the pile.

The debate was brought here and the members of GTP have spoken. You dont go into someone's home and tell them the rules of their house. This is GTPlanet and at GTPlanet rewind is not wanted by a majority of members. I encourage those in favor of rewind to take your arguement elsewhere and try to find those other 5 million people and bring them back here. We will get more members for GTP:tup: and you get more people on your side:tup:.

 

[Bogie 19th]

IMO, GT already has enough non-sim features and I really dont care to throw another turd on the pile.

Tell me how PD is forcing you to use this feature. Please do. Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[turbomp301]

Tell me where I said PD is forcing me to use this issue, I want to know.

p.s. the woman in your avatar is gorgeous, who is she?

 

[killanite]

Tell me how PD is forcing you to use this feature. Please do. Inquiring minds want to know.

Tell me anywhere where PD has even mentioned having a rewind feature. This whole thread is based on speculation and is stupid to have so much posts in something unlikely to be in GT5 in the first place.

 

[Coiler]

Tell me how PD is forcing you to use this feature. Please do. Inquiring minds want to know.

Most people don't want it in the game , get over it...

 

[Bogie 19th]

Tell me where I said PD is forcing me to use this issue, I want to know.

p.s. the woman in your avatar is gorgeous, who is she?

Well since you won't be using it, it won't affect you. I wouldn't mind it being added.

The woman is Elizabeth Banks (Zack & Miri Make A Porno, 40 Year Old Virgin, etc)

Most people don't want it in the game , get over it...

Those people don't have to USE it. You get over it.

 

[Coiler]

Those people don't have to USE it. You get over it.

OK, so PD should make it in because 10% people want it in, and 90% don't want it?