Lotus car (almost) unveiled...

[PeterJB]

Hottest car of the year. Nothing even comes close.

 

[SUPER NUMBBER]

I gotta say (reservations on the "history" of the car and livery aside) that is one sexy car and the best looking one yet this season. I also have to admit, as a Trulli fan, I'm excited to see this car launch finally and will be following this team this year (though my expectations are modest).

No offense, but I didn't know Trulli had fans

But yeah, there's something very appealing about the design. Could be the livery; although I figure it's easier to work out something that looks good when you don't have 20 stickers to design around on your car.

 

[yeti]

Just wow - looks awesome... it looks like a rapier...

Great livery and sweet lines.

C.

 

[Ardius]

Hell yeah! 👍
Trulli fan here also, and I'm willing to give Kovalainen a second chance seeing as he was good in the midfield Renault in 2007.

Basic design but amazing livery. Hopefully a good base to start from and an amazing effort for 5 months hard work!

Good to see they've stuck to the "Type" numbering. I think this team have a good balance of respecting the heritage but also defining themselves as a new, seperate entity from the original Lotus team. Its just a shame its a little over-shadowed by all this "Team Malaysia" stuff, but I can overlook that.

BBC have confirmed a couple of interesting things:
"The team is being presented as a revival of a historic name - it will be granted prize money on the basis of Lotus's historical record, and technical director Mike Gascoyne said that their first win would be counted as Lotus's 80th in F1, not the new team's first."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8513511.stm

So they get additional money? Is this because they count as replacing one of the ten teams from last year and therefore get the leftover prize money? Interesting way of getting around explaining why the other 3 new teams didn't get the money Though I remember the FIA stated new teams would be getting support from the FIA of some sort anyway.
Also interesting that they are inheriting Team Lotus' records too, not sure I agree with that considering the Malaysian license and all, but eh, its just a name in the end. And it does have the blessing of Clive Chapman and Group Lotus...

I've also updated the fanclub to reflect the new logo, etc: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/group.php?groupid=151

 

[Tetradic]

No offense, but I didn't know Trulli had fans

No offense taken. The "Trulli Train" has done much damage but I've been a fan of his driving for many years. I was happy to see him end up at Lotus. he has a few more years in him yet.

As for Heikki I expect nothing from him... but that is often a good position to be in given that he might surprise.

As for the Lotus's pace this year, lower-mid grid at best with a few surprises in Quali. But the car looks the part, that is for sure.

 

[Ardius]

Latest pictures from Jerez testing:

Also a nice video which sums up the team so far quite nicely (Simpsons pinball machine ftw!):

 

[Kakumaki]

I think it will be my favorite looking car of this year, go Jarno!!
Arghhh the youtube link don't work.

 

[Ardius]

Well heres the link to their youtube channel instead then:
http://www.youtube.com/user/mylotusracing

 

[red7]

I like the styling and livery. Simple and clean, they've gone a different route of design for sure. But. Is it fast?

 

[Ardius]

So far, testing says no, but they aren't meant to be fast straight away. A new team wants a solid, reliable base to build from. This is what Gascoyne excels at.

Build the chassis and team, then look for performance. Its an accomplishment in itself just to get the car together so quick and be running so reliably.
Don't be surprised to see them at the back of the grid come Bahrain, but I think its reasonable to compare them to Virgin at least. So hopefully 19th and 20th rather than 21st and 22nd 👍

 

[yeti]

This isn't gonna help their cause...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/8522444.stm

C.

 

[Ardius]

Lotus are focusing on 2011 now:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/83739

Gascoyne also confirms they are still using metal pieces for suspension, which is fairly surprising considering the excellent balance the car appears to have (as heavier pieces reduces the team's ability to use ballast to help weight distribution).
I seem to remember him saying earlier that they have a new hydraulics system planned for Silverstone or Turkey too.

I think at this point in the season, hanging on to 10th is the best they can hope for without points. If Sauber continue to be unreliable though, they could possibly steal 9th if they manage at least 1 point somewhere. I think their next best bet is probably Montreal for this, possibly large retirments there, or Interlagos.
It will be interesting to see what they can produce for 2011 with a proper budget and the proper amount of time to prepare.

 

[Peter]

Or Monza. The lack of downforce may help them out there, plus the Cosworth is the most powerful engine. I think HRT can actually do well there as well, compared to what they're doing now.

 

[Seismica]

Or Monza. The lack of downforce may help them out there, plus the Cosworth is the most powerful engine. I think HRT can actually do well there as well, compared to what they're doing now.

I thought Cosworth was the least powerful engine? At least if you looked at the whole rev range it is... It might have the most power at a certain rev level but over the whole rev range is performs the least I think.

Err... Anybody with a bit more knowledge about Engines care to comment?

 

[Ardius]

I thought Cosworth was the least powerful engine? At least if you looked at the whole rev range it is... It might have the most power at a certain rev level but over the whole rev range is performs the least I think.

Err... Anybody with a bit more knowledge about Engines care to comment?

I can't find the article at the moment, but both Cosworth and Williams have stated that there is no problem with the power of the engine.

The problems Cosworth have are reportedly to do with drivability related to torque mapping, because Cosworth were surprised by the progress made since 2006 in this area, and degradation.

Even in 2006, the Cosworths were one of the most powerful engines.

I don't think the Cosworths are any advantage to the new teams though - most powerful today merely means around ~5bhp more or less than the top engines.

Or Monza. The lack of downforce may help them out there, plus the Cosworth is the most powerful engine. I think HRT can actually do well there as well, compared to what they're doing now.

Thats not how it works. When the drivers and teams refer to a "lack of downforce" they mean, lack of downforce relative the amount of drag they are creating. The ideal aero setup is one which creates the least drag but the most downforce - an effecient setup. A lack of downforce refers to an ineffeciency of the aero of the car - not necessarily a low downforce setup. (after all, if it was simply a matter of not producing enough downforce regardless of drag, it would simply be a case of putting more angled wings on the car).

Let me give an example, the Force India last year performed well at Spa. The reason it did so was because it could create enough downforce to take corners like Blanchimont and Pouhon fast but also create little drag for the straights, giving it good speed down the straighter sections. This means they had a good low downforce effeciency, so they could use slightly more wing than other teams with less drag penalties. This is also why they suffered at other tracks that needed more downforce, because they didn't have an effecient high downforce setup - it created too little downforce.

Bad aero does not mean good in a straight line, it quite simply means bad in all conditions. The only time the new teams can get closer is places like Monaco where aero effeciency doesn't matter, as the drag is actually an advantage for braking and ultimate straight line performance doesn't matter, so they can just stick all the downforce on they want regardless how much drag it creates.

The new teams might do well at Monza, but its not assured simply because they don't produce enough downforce. The HRTs may still need to use a higher downforce setup for Monza than the top teams simply because they don't produce enough to take the Lesmos, Ascari and Parabolica at a reasonable pace.

Another way of explaining it is to say, imagine each car produced "downforce points". Now, to take a corner like Parabolica at the optimum speed, the car has to produce "25 points" of downforce. Lets say for every point of downforce a Red Bull creates, it also creates 0.5 points of drag, so the Red Bull setup would be creating 12.5 points of drag. Now the HRT, because its aero ineffecient, produces 2 points of drag per downforce point. This means the HRT setup requires 50 points of drag to get around the corner at the optimum.
Now, thats a very basic way of explaining it and a bit exaggerated, but you should get the point. The HRT will always be slower as long as the track is aero dependent, and even "low downforce" tracks are aero-dependent. Where the HRT really has a chance are the "mechanical-grip-dependent" tracks, although even here, it will struggle (as will Lotus and Virgin) as they are still using sub-standard parts like steel-suspension. The difference is reduced though, as its slightly easier to keep up mechanically.

 

[Bram Turismo]

I thought Cosworth was the least powerful engine?

Back in 2006, they had monstrous power in those engines, but they also had the worst reliability of all the cars on the grid. I think by the time the grid reached Germany Webber had retired 7 out of 11 races due to mechanical difficulties.

I've heard that currently Cosworth is working on the issue of power loss after the use of engines. It seems they are somewhat hampered by the fact that engines loose power after a race distance, and this is something they want to work on to minimize that power loss for the next race.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Gascoyne alluded to some "major changes" for 2011. According to AMuS these changes include:

1) A ban on double-diffusers and F-ducts.
2) The return of KERS which will now have a greater output than in 2009.
3) Banning vertical pod wings and flow aids under the chassis.
4) Rules to reduce the scope of development for rear wings.
5) A possible change in the width of the front wing to make it smaller,
6) Adjustable front wings to be banned (the drivers admit they don't use them, anyway), but the possibility to adjust rear wings.

 

[Peter]

I believe the reason that Williams decided to just go with Cosworth rather than trying to get Mercedes engines was because the Cosworth produced more horsepower, around 30 horses more if I remember correctly.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I believe the reason that Williams decided to just go with Cosworth rather than trying to get Mercedes engines was because the Cosworth produced more horsepower, around 30 horses more if I remember correctly.

Um, they were never interested in the Mercedes engine. They were considering Cosworth or Renault. And it's the Mercedes that produces more horsepower than the rest, not the Cosworth.

 

[Alex.]

It's like every technical decision made in F1 of late has been made by 'the slowing down F1 cars whilst making them much uglier, restricting any ingenuity, reducing much of the balls driving an F1 car used to require, and decreasing amount of cylinders in an F1 engine committee'

 

[Seismica]

It's like every technical decision made in F1 of late has been made by 'the slowing down F1 cars whilst making them much uglier, restricting any ingenuity, reducing much of the balls driving an F1 car used to require, and decreasing amount of cylinders in an F1 engine committee'

Thats my main objection to the changes required to 'improve overtaking'.

What they will be doing is slowing down the cars to such an extent that they may not be as fast as GP2 cars, Indy cars or even Le Mans prototypes around a circuit.

It should be and should always remain the top level of circuit racing in motorsport. Which means, they should be the fastest.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

You can have faster and "better looking" (I find the notion that the pre-2009 cars looked good ... waaaay too many aerodynamic bells and whistles) or you can have more overtaking. You can't have both. Well, maybe you can, but if you were forced to choose, which one would you take? More overtaking should be a slam dunk.

Also I dispute the suggestion that the cars will be slowed down. The entire point of having a designer is to find a way to go faster. When was the last time the cars were as slow as the regulations had set out to make them? After all, this year's cars are setting qualifying times to challenge some of the fastest that have been set ...

 

[PeterJB]

The designers seem to be able to find a flaw in all the rules put in. Most aero parts were removed to slow the cars down, if anything they're faster (thank you slicks!) And they tried to promote overtaking, and along came mr double diffuser...

 

[Seismica]

The designers seem to be able to find a flaw in all the rules put in. Most aero parts were removed to slow the cars down, if anything they're faster (thank you slicks!) And they tried to promote overtaking, and along came mr double diffuser...

Pretty much, this happened.

They regulated the aerodynamics much more, which meant they reduced the downforce levels and added slicks to reduce aerodynamic grip and increase mechanical grip, so that cars would be less effected by the dirty air and hopefully be able to overtake more often.

That hasn't happened. Even with removing the double diffusers and reducing the wing sizes I do not think it will improve overtaking as much as they want to. All it will do is slow them down.

The best thing that can do is get rid of all the rubbish circuits like Bahrain, Valencia, Catalunya etc.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

The best thing that can do is get rid of all the rubbish circuits like Bahrain, Valencia, Catalunya etc.

I'm sorry, but show me concrete proof that the circuits are to blame for bland racing instead of an over-reliance on aerodynamics. I seem to recall that there were twenty-three recorded passes at Bahrain in 2009, which was more than some of th established circuits produced.

 

[freshseth83]

Aero efficiency is not the cause of less overtaking. The diffusers were more to blame. It produces 'dirty' air, making following a car more unstable for the follower. F1 never, in modern times, the most overtaking involved sport. Nothing will change that right off the bat.

 

[Ardius]

F1 never, in modern times, the most overtaking involved sport. Nothing will change that right off the bat.

It was never in "classic" times either. Want overtaking? Watch NASCAR or Touring Cars. Want quality overtaking and outright speed? Watch F1.

My opinion on this issue is the same as before - changes do need to be made to make it possible to overtake, but the series should not focus entirely on overtaking, as its not the be all and end all of F1 and never was. Allow more effective slipstreaming and close-running but that is all. I don't want to see the sport turned into entertainment rather than sport and I don't want to see the other aspects of F1 disappear just to pander to this demand of overtaking.

I think the media (or rather, particular journalists) are most to blame principally because they seem to only care about F1 and don't realise other motorsports exist. If they did, they should have realised that their criticisms of F1 in this respect only serve to show how little they appreciate what the sport is and that there are other alternative motorsports to watch if you want overtaking every other minute.

Anyway, to bring this back on topic, I think clearly Lotus are best placed of the new teams to maximise their resources between gathering data, experience and results for 2010 and also making the most of 2011. Virgin cannot easily drop their current car because they are still understanding their new car after they had to launch a new spec with the bigger fuel tank. HRT are obviously not getting anywhere with the Dallara chassis and have little to learn from it now they ended their contract with them. If HRT can sort out their finances and infastructure in time, the best they can hope for next year is a reliable car.

Obviously its way too early to make predictions, but I think Lotus can be disappointed if they don't challenge the established backmarker teams at the first race of 2011. I actually think there is a danger of Lotus being the best placed Cosworth team next year if Williams continue their fall.

 

[freshseth83]

I'm not complaining, I'm stating that if people are looking towards F1 as the overtaking galore motorsport, they're wrong. It's never been that way. I like F1 but I think it should be more relevant. It seems like it's losing touch with street relevant technology. Hope this changes with the new regs in a couple years. Next year I hear they're going back to the small front wing, which is great, that big front wing looks so tacky and out of place. They shouldn't have changed the regs from 2008. Just left them alone but gotten rid of turning vanes and underbody channels and no double diffusers. Switch to slicks and decrease the size of cylinders in the engine to 6, or add turbos and increase displacement but reduce revs. Maybe a bit closer to road technology.

 

[Peter]

Whatever happens in 2011, I don't want to see KERS come back. It didn't help overtaking much at all, it was being used as a "push to stay ahead" rather than "push to pass" which it was expected to be used for. Like at Spa, Fisichella couldn't get by Raikkonen because he kept using the KERS on the run up to Eau Rouge. And Monza, Sutil couldn't get a run at Raikkonen because he kept using the KERS.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Aero efficiency is not the cause of less overtaking. The diffusers were more to blame. It produces 'dirty' air, making following a car more unstable for the follower. F1 never, in modern times, the most overtaking involved sport. Nothing will change that right off the bat.

That's what the new regulations are aimed at doing. The Powers That Be are trying to cause a shift by simplifying aero-influenced parts like the diffuser and floor, thus reducing downforce.

Whatever happens in 2011, I don't want to see KERS come back. It didn't help overtaking much at all, it was being used as a "push to stay ahead" rather than "push to pass" which it was expected to be used for. Like at Spa, Fisichella couldn't get by Raikkonen because he kept using the KERS on the run up to Eau Rouge. And Monza, Sutil couldn't get a run at Raikkonen because he kept using the KERS.

You haven't been following the latest run of the KERS saga, have you? The 2011 plan seems to be to make the KERS unit mandatory (or at least have enough tems run it so that anyone who doesn't is out of heir minds) and to increase the amout of power and for how long it is available. The idea seems to be to make KERS highly flexible, and thus more appealing.