Manual shifting?

[RenesisEvo]

Awesome. 👍

I love it when someone actually comes up with that answer. It's not merely a function of horsepower, but also gearing. You need to graph out the torque curves in each gear in order to find out the truly optimal shift point, despite what many people believe and "feel".

Well I for one won't be sitting there working that out for each and every car I have, in each and every state of tune.

For components alone, the number of combinations ranks into 4E76 (thats a monstrously large number)... consider the no. of cars in the game. If you could plot each one in 1 minute, it would take you roughly 2.22E73 years to compute all the cars at all the settings... now consider the Sun is meant to detonate and destroy the earth in 5E24 years - not gonna happen is it??

(note: "E" is exponential. raise 10 to a power equal to the number following the E).

I could be wrong of course... and naturally, no-one's gonna sit and do that. I sincerely hope

 

[tenth]

Well I for one won't be sitting there working that out for each and every car I have, in each and every state of tune.

I should have been more clear. That applies much more to real-life when you have a representative dyno graph of your vehicle, than it does a game that makes it very tough to see the dyno graph, and may or may not make it 100% accurate anyways. There's no way I'd try to apply that to a video game, especially one with as many cars as this one...

 

[nurburgring]

Well I for one won't be sitting there working that out for each and every car I have, in each and every state of tune.

For components alone, the number of combinations ranks into 4E76 (thats a monstrously large number)... consider the no. of cars in the game. If you could plot each one in 1 minute, it would take you roughly 2.22E73 years to compute all the cars at all the settings... now consider the Sun is meant to detonate and destroy the earth in 5E24 years - not gonna happen is it??

(note: "E" is exponential. raise 10 to a power equal to the number following the E).

I could be wrong of course... and naturally, no-one's gonna sit and do that. I sincerely hope

I think you're making it more complicate than it is.

Per example, if your max torque is 5000rpm and your max power is 6000rpm (after looking the small diagram on the up right corner), you just have to change yours gears when your engine is 5500rpm.

Over this number, it is useless and you actually accelerate less faster than if you had upshifted at 5500rpm.

Sorry for my bad english, I'm french!

 

[Gabkicks]

it would be too complicated to try and point out every situation. The main goal is to shift as little as possible while staying in the powerband.


here's one of about a million examples:
If your attacking a corner, and you know you can either shift from gear 4 down to gear two and use half throttle to corner, or just shift down into 3rd and use almost full throttle, Then your choice will most likely be to just shift into 3rd.

When you're going uphill you're going to want to shift almost as late as possible, while downhill you just want to spend more time focusing on keeping speed and the race line. 👍

 

[JTSnooks]

IRL, manual is faster and more economic than auto... but in gt3 and 4, with the proper techniques (slightly different from manual when it comes to throttle breaking and race line) its just about as fast. I never use automatic in any games though.

Not necessarily true, actually. In the past, yes, because automatics ate a lot more horsepower than manuals because of all the extra moving parts and therefore friction. Also, automatics generally used lower rear-end ratios because they had fewer gears than a manual transmission. Nowadays, if you pair a modern automatic with a modern manual transmission and you put the same rear-end ratio in them, the manual has a very good chance of coming out on top. Case-in-point, the new GTO automatic is actually quicker than the manual, even with two less gears, because the manual uses the same rear-end ratio as the automatic, and there's no way a human can shift faster than an automatic. That said, there's no way I'd buy a new GTO with an automatic, because a manual gives you so much more control...and more fun!

Oh, and Nurburgring, you don't want to shift between the torque and power peaks. You want to shift after the horsepower peak, as you will get your quickest acceleration at the peak horsepower. Torque is the maximum force your engine makes, and horsepower is the rate at which it's being used. Basically, ignore the torque peak if you're looking at getting the quickest straight-line acceleration, although it will be useful for powering out of corners and such. Anyway, I'm done.

 

[Fortis]

Alright I'm going to sound like an idiot compared to most of the people on this forum but I'm still confused. After reading this thread and some of the perfect shifting thread I have been inspired to switch to MT, even though I suck at it in the game. The problem is I can't seem to find the right shift point for my cars.

I mean, can anyone give me a general "rule-of-thumb" when it comes to finding the right time to shift for maximum power? Is it like jtsnooks said- shift after the horsepower peak? What if the peaks for the torque and horsepower curves are closer together or farther apart?

I tried running an experiment with my charger on the strip to find the perfect shift point but then when I would switch to auto I kept on beating my other time! The car redlines at 5500, the torque peaks at about 3000 and the HP at 4000 (Its hard to tell the dyno chart in this game sucks). So I messed around with different shift points like 3500, 4500, and then 5000. But I found that when I just shifted at the redline (like the auto does) I got the best response. Is this just an example where the best shift point is actually the redline or am I totally clueless?

Argh.

 

[Gabkicks]

it just takes time getting used to the car and how it behaves.

I recently drove a nissan murano, and the tranny was really smooth. I dont have much experience driving cars at all, but I do agree autos are getting better. 👍


I wish u guys would jump on LFS or something... its easy to transfer stuff you learn from LFS over to GT4, plus its easier to explain things if you are actually watching the person drive.

 

[vr6gti72]

I can drive both ways...I was comfortable with auto from GT1-GT3.Id just rock my thumb from gas to brake, to get it to down shift...I played GT4 for a while in auto....but just went to manual. I drive a manual everyday so it wasnt a big transitions. I knew I could pull better times in manual too. You almost need it for the rallys. When I was trying to drift it was harder for me in auto. Its easy though. I just do a little reasearch on the car and find where the torque band starts tapering off and shift in that area. 👍

 

[I4sohc]

👍 driving manual allows you to control your RPMs... which in fact allows you to control the whole movement of the car, especially around curves...

 

[Jmac279]

I think you're making it more complicate than it is.

Per example, if your max torque is 5000rpm and your max power is 6000rpm (after looking the small diagram on the up right corner), you just have to change yours gears when your engine is 5500rpm.

Over this number, it is useless and you actually accelerate less faster than if you had upshifted at 5500rpm.

Sorry for my bad english, I'm french!

You're also wrong ... See my earlier posts ...

 

[Jmac279]

Torque is the maximum force your engine makes, and horsepower is the rate at which it's being used.

Torque is Force*Lever_Length, it's not Force ...
Power is the Rate at which Work (Force*Distance/Time) is done ...

 

[Jmac279]

I mean, can anyone give me a general "rule-of-thumb" when it comes to finding the right time to shift for maximum power? Is it like jtsnooks said- shift after the horsepower peak? What if the peaks for the torque and horsepower curves are closer together or farther apart?

I tried running an experiment with my charger on the strip to find the perfect shift point but then when I would switch to auto I kept on beating my other time! The car redlines at 5500, the torque peaks at about 3000 and the HP at 4000 (Its hard to tell the dyno chart in this game sucks). So I messed around with different shift points like 3500, 4500, and then 5000. But I found that when I just shifted at the redline (like the auto does) I got the best response. Is this just an example where the best shift point is actually the redline or am I totally clueless?

Argh.

There's no real rule of thumb, but you'll NEVER want to shift below peak Power. How you should set up you gears and where you should shift is completely dependent on the power curve of your particular vehicle. Basically, your primary goal is to keep Power as high as possible through proper gearing and proper shifting. (See this - https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1573114&postcount=9 and this - https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1622050&postcount=39)

A car with the torque peak and power peak far apart will generally have a very wide powerband, so you can have wider gears to take advantage of this.

A car with the torque peak and power peak close together will generally have a narrow powerband, so you need narrower gears, although this isn't always true.

 

[Giancarlo]

I like to shift just a grand or so before redline, just so i won't "blow the engine" and lose horsepower. I usually use automatic in cars that only come in automatic, like the black Buick and Chaparral 2D. This adds realism IMO.

 

[98cobra]

I just look at the dyno graph and I try to shift right before the engine starts to lose power. Most NA cars are right after redline and blown cars peak power at high rpm.