May the Best Car Win

[SuperShouden]

That's GM's new slogan....Well, according to the recent Consumer Report, Chevy's are some of the WORST cars to own. I mean, I'd hate to find a car worst than a GM.

 

[YSSMAN]

OOPS

So, Chevrolet scores a 111 on the JD Power Survey (just below the industry standard 100), outshining typical high scoring outfits like Toyota, Mazda and Nissan. Amazingly, Hyundai and Honda were the only affordable imported makes that outranked Chevrolet. Going through some of the other results, the Malibu placed on the best family sedan, the Tahoe took top honors for the large SUV, and the Avalanche for large truck.

So, unless you have some kind of personal experience to speak to... The numbers are against you.

 

[Jim Prower]

The problem: look at how high Ford is! Way above industry average! Fact is, while Chevy may be tipping the scales against the Japanese giants, the boys from Dearborn are running away with it.

 

[SuperShouden]

That's what the Consumer Report is. It's people's personal opinions of the cars they drive.

Also, there's a problem with the high rating of the Chevy trucks: Go up to Alaska or the Northwest Territory and count how many GM vehicles you see. It won't be many. 'Cause GM's just don't survive up there. Unlike Dodge and Ford and every other truck maker. And...umm....you can't trust JD Power and Accociates. They can be paid off.

Also, Ford, Lincoln and Ram all beat Chevy.

 

[Smallhorses]

Indeed, and looking at the numbers, of GM's 4 remaining brands, 3 of them (Chevrolet, Cadillac & Buick) still outperform Chrysler, Dodge & Jeep, with GMC coming in between that trio, so out of 3 major US manufacturers, GM is 2 out of 3.
(I'm not sure why Ram, if it's referring to the Dodge Ram has it's own rating, unless I've missed something and Ram is now a separate manufacturer?)

 

[YSSMAN]

That's what the Consumer Report is. It's people's personal opinions of the cars they drive.

Right, but you can easily point out how flawed the Consumer Reports system is as well. Only those who care are going to report-in, and it is normally when they have an experience that is on the extreme end of either outcome.

Its also critical that you point out which vehicles you're talking about. We have two nearly-new Chevrolets in the driveway (Avalanche and Impala), and we've yet to have an issue with either since buying them new. Everything I've read and experienced with the new Malibu and Equinox has been outstanding for the segment, perhaps the only "bad seeds" coming to mind being the often spotty Cobalt, and I've heard of some nasty transmission issues on the Traverse (which are common through all the brand variations).

(I'm not sure why Ram, if it's referring to the Dodge Ram has it's own rating, unless I've missed something and Ram is now a separate manufacturer?)

Ram is now considered to be a separate brand by Fiat-Chrysler, but it still dons the old Dodge logo. It's weird, I know.

 

[SuperShouden]

I don't know about the Cadillac Escalade beating out the Mercedes or Land Rover. That there seems fishy to me. I mean, when they tested the quality, the obviously didn't do a towing or offroad test with any of those trucks. If they did, I doubt you'd see any GMs trucks on the list. That's probably why GM scored so low on the Consumer Reports list.

I mean, if I had $60,000 to spend on an SUV, I'd get a Land Rover. 'cause at least, I know I could take the thing off road without breaking it.

And If you notice, all the American truck makers beat Chevy. They only beat everyone in SUVs..which is strange. 'cause I wouldn't buy a Chevy SUV.

Also, notice the New Camaro missed the list one the "Sporty Car" list. only the Mustang and Challenger are there.

 

[YSSMAN]

What are you on about towing capacity? Have you never hauled anything with an actual truck before? A body-on-frame SUV is always going to out-haul a unibody SUV, and in this case, the Escalade easily outhauls both the GL and the Range Rover (even with its 100 BHP advantage in supercharged form).

However, I think you're missing the point with the comparison between them. The Escalade was never meant to go off-road, and in fact, Cadillac would never dare suggest that you do so with their 22" wheels and chrome bits and pieces. That's what the Tahoe Z71 exists for. But even with all of this nonsense, I've yet to figure out what measurable terms you are checking off Chevrolet with. We shopped between Ford, Dodge and Chevrolet before we bought our Avalanche, and we weren't blown away by any of the alternatives. Of course, Ford has dramatically upped the quality and performance of the F-150, but that has not translated well into the Excursion. The same can be said for Ram with the, uh, Ram... But the Durango has remained the same for years. So, we went with an Avalanche, and it was still the right decision.


So, again, given the whole US range of Chevrolet products... What exactly are you on about?

 

[SuperShouden]

I'm getting on with, that being buying a quality car or truck or SUV, Chevy isn't what crosses my mind. Especially with them now being owned by the government. And, like I said, that JD test seems a little off on a lot of points. (Like, Land Rover is the worst? Really? But they're always known for being the best SUV)

Like I said, If I had $60,000 for an SUV, I wouldn't be thinking Escalade. I'd be thinking Land Rover.

Same thing with the trucks. If I have $30-$40,000 to spend on a truck, I'm not thinking about an Avalanche or Silverado, I'd be thinking more F150, or Tundra or Ram or something else.

I mean, Chevy's never been known for their quality. More for their speed.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

(Like, Land Rover is the worst? Really? But they're always known for being the best SUV)

Not in terms of reliability

 

[Northstar]

I mean, Chevy's never been known for their quality. More for their speed.

What?

Were you around in the '90's when they had the "Like a Rock Campaign"?

They also do commercials every few years talking about their trucks are the "longest lasting on the road".

Also, Land Rovers have never been known for reliability. I used to know someone that had one and it was constantly in the shop.

 

[Cano]

heck, even I know about Land Rovers being baaaaad in terms of reliability and I dont even care about them. In Mexico they are famous for just quitting down. Servicing it is incredibly expensive and frequent, and dealer servicing is even worse.

Land Rover? plase.

I'd go for a Ram, but because I like all that HEMI stuff and it's design. I reckon Chevrolets are very very good trucks. I can't see your point either.

 

[SuperShouden]

Yeah, Chevy's always tried to call themselves reliable.

Buyt, If I were going to buy an American built truck, to be honest, I'd probably buy a Ford. I mean, Ford built the first pickup. and the F150 is the best selling truck for a reason.

But, I know someone who used to be an EMT in Alaska, and he said that he bought a Chevy van once and in the cold temperatures, the plastic they used literally crumbled and broke at the touch. And one guy had a Chevy truck and the some of the lines froze solid.

This is why Dodge, Ford and Toyota are the top work trucks. You go to a company that actually does a lot of tough, all-terain work, and you will be hard pressed to find a Chevy or GM truck. The only reason why the government uses GM is because the government OWNS GM and has had a major partnership with GM for ages. But, go check out the loggers, and construction companies and companies like that. Most of the trucks you see in those will be Ford, Ram, and Toyota.

 

[McLaren]

Chevy's have been very reliable cars in the past few years. Corvettes have been flawless besides the recall on their tops thanks to the bullet-proof, God-given engine that is the LS, & their trucks like the Silverado take a pretty big ass beating.

I don't know if you know, but Chevrolet has a big plant in Arlington, Texas, & it really allows people in the south to see just how dependable the vehicles are when you can see where they're coming from. A lot of Texans own a Chevy pickup due to the plant and most of these people usually have zero issues with them. The only other truck just as popular down here is the F-Series & I do on occasion, hear more about issues with the F-250s & up.

 

[YSSMAN]

I'm getting on with, that being buying a quality car or truck or SUV, Chevy isn't what crosses my mind. Especially with them now being owned by the government. And, like I said, that JD test seems a little off on a lot of points. (Like, Land Rover is the worst? Really? But they're always known for being the best SUV)

Doesn't cross your mind or the general public's mind? Chevrolet is fairly well known for being a quality vehicle at an affordable price, not much is going to change that. Since 2003, quality across the board has dramatically increased at GM on the whole, and since 2008, every new GM vehicle brought into show rooms has been a pretty outstanding product. Being owned by the government has little to do with anything, as they have zero say over the day-to-day operations in the development of these vehicles. With the GM IPO coming near the end of the year, GM will go back into public ownership, don't you fret.

As for Land Rover... I'm surprised you don't know this. Like, really, really surprised.

I mean, Chevy's never been known for their quality. More for their speed.

Their engines and transmissions are damn near bulletproof. Why do you think the LS ends up in so many start-up supercar projects? For that matter, why do you think BMW was using GM automatics in their cars and SUVs for so long? Oh wait... You're not supposed to know that last bit. Shhhhhh.

Yeah, Chevy's always tried to call themselves reliable.

Because they are. The C/K1500 is damn near apocalypse-proof, the only truck of similar vintage I can think of that will outgun it being the 1980-86 F-series. But, that was an entirely different era...

Buyt, If I were going to buy an American built truck, to be honest, I'd probably buy a Ford. I mean, Ford built the first pickup. and the F150 is the best selling truck for a reason.

Even as someone who comes from a Chevrolet household, I don't find this hard to argue against. The new F-150 is a nice truck, really well-engineered, and built right here in Michigan. But, you're assuming a bit when you peg that for the reason why Ford sells so many of them. The F-150 is a bit cheaper and comes in more configurable variations. When you're a contractor looking for "blank" work trucks, the F-150 is hard to miss. Although, I tend to see far more Silverado contractor vehicles around here. Also, for utility, delivery, plumbing, and so on vehicles.

This is why Dodge, Ford and Toyota are the top work trucks. You go to a company that actually does a lot of tough, all-terain work, and you will be hard pressed to find a Chevy or GM truck.

Dodge and Toyota? You're serious about the Tundra? I mean, I could see it maybe with the Ram, but you're ignoring the fact the Silverado is the second-best selling truck in the segment... By a very large margin. But the Tundra? C'mon. Now I'm fairly convinced you know absolutely nothing about trucks.

The only reason why the government uses GM is because the government OWNS GM and has had a major partnership with GM for ages.

Actually, that has very little to do with it. In fact, if you want to follow that logic, half of all (federal) government vehicles should be Fiat-Chrysler products. In the end, it comes down to the silly laws that require federally-purchased equipment to be of American origin. GM, Ford and Chrysler are allowed to bid for government contracts for fleet sales, and in whatever round, GM happened to win. Often times this will vary by what part of the country you are in, as most federal vehicles here in Michigan are Ford products, by my count.

 

[JCE]

Yay for Ford! As much as you guys are repping GM for it's "quality" sorry but Ford is still better. There is not a single GM product on sale today that I wouldn't want to buy over a Ford. And for that matter the RAM truck is more desirable than the GM. Escalade? Gag me with a spoon coated in Ebola.

 

[Keef]

If I recall correctly when the new Tundra debuted they had some fairly serious recall issues with them almost immediately. Something about catastrophic engine failure and bad tail gates. How can you possibly screw up a tail gate? Toyota did it.

If you've ever seen Top Gear, a British car enthusiast/entertainment show, then you know that Land Rovers and Range Rovers are among the most unreliable vehicles ever designed. The show's presenters constantly make jokes about it, and the audience laughs along because they're all British and they know it's true. They were bad back in the day, they're bad now, and they'll probably be bad for a while. In fact, hah, I just now noticed they're dead last on the JD list by a huge margin. Wow! How could you possibly say they're the best at anything with that graph staring you in the face?

In general you just can't go wrong with a big truck for Ford, GM, or Dodge. If the official currency in America wasn't the dollar it would probably be trucks. That's just what we do. We're pretty good at it. Toyota generally makes good SUVs and the Tacoma is a hoss, but when you've got a trailer with 20,000 pounds of stuff on it that needs to be across town within the hour, the import guys don't even offer anything that can do it.

As for the JD Power lists, I can't agree with the Focus. The thing is a piece bro, seriously, I had to live with one for 3 days in Chicago. Give me a Mazda 3 plz.

 

[SuperShouden]

I'm sorry, but I cannot STAND the Escalade and cars like it (Hummer H2 and H3 are among those). I mean, what's the point of an SUV if you can't take it off road? If you can't ford a river with it, or cross a field with it, then it really isn't a "Sports Utility Vehicle" is it? It'd be a big 2-ton chunk of uselessness. That's what I mean by "quality" with the Land Rover. You don't see people driving through the African desert in an Escalade or an H2 or H3, do you? No. You see Toyota Land Cruisers and Land Rovers and the occassional H1. That's what they were designed for. Why do you think the Military hasn't switched their Humvees to the H2? Because they suck. There's nothing more useless than an SUV that isn't an SUV.

When is an SUV not an SUV? When it's built by General Motors.

 

[Jim Prower]

Well, you CAN go wrong with a Dodge, if you get a Cummins with the auto, although automatic transmission problems seem to plague almost all modern pickups. I hear most often about the Cummins Ram lunching 'boxes, though.

Interesting note: Everett Jasmer used a stock frame on his 1988 TNT Monster Truck Challenge points champion, USA-1. However, that truck seemed to do nothing but crash in 1989, when the coil-sprung, mid-engined, 4-link'd Equalizer showed up...

on the point of the HMMWV to the H2 - Apples and oranges, buddy. The HMMWV was built exactly to a military specification put out by the U.S. army. The H2 was built to look like the HMMWV.

 

[SuperShouden]

Yeah, but you'd think that if you're building an SUV that looked like the HMMWV, you'd make it just as capable, like the H1. But GM took the Suburban frame (same thing with the Escalade, btw) and put the H2's body on it. Which doesn't work.

 

[Jondot]

I'm sorry, but I cannot STAND the Escalade and cars like it (Hummer H2 and H3 are among those). I mean, what's the point of an SUV if you can't take it off road? If you can't ford a river with it, or cross a field with it, then it really isn't a "Sports Utility Vehicle" is it?

SUV as a term means absolutely nothing. It's just something a marketing department dreamed up a while ago to attach to 4x4s that weren't designed to go off-road. In that respect, the Escalade is a perfect SUV, no?

I'd agree that it's a horrid car, but it's by no means the only off-roader that can't go off road. Off the top of my head...

 

[Keef]

Yeah, but you'd think that if you're building an SUV that looked like the HMMWV, you'd make it just as capable, like the H1. But GM took the Suburban frame (same thing with the Escalade, btw) and put the H2's body on it. Which doesn't work.

It sold. It eventually stopped selling, but for a while there it was the new hotcakes.

 

[Eric.]

This thread's funny. Particularly about the military not "updating" to the H2.

 

[Azuremen]

This thread's funny. Particularly about the military not "updating" to the H2.

I know, pure gold.