Mazda CX/MX range discussion

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Well, @Keef, that's the whole appeal of the 2.5 turbo for me. If you're cruising on the highway or doing any kind of driving around town, you always have 310 ft-lbs underfoot, and it's instant. You can launch yourself to the gap you need to get to... no need to wind up the engine or anything. It's fantastic. The car feels really light, so much so that when you load it with 4 people it feels twice as heavy. You get a luxurious grand tourer feel, but the light feel is where you get the sensation of sportiness. I imagine that is totally absent in the CX-90 and probably even in the CX-5 as well.

It's not as much (~250lbs*ft) but this is also what makes my CR-V hybrid so satisfying to drive. There's just always torque available (well, above 70mph its notably less) and throttle response is nearly instant, which makes it feel so effortless to drive. This type of torque curve is just ideal for these types of cars, IMO.

IMO, Mazda kind of screwed the pooch with the CX-90. The product planning was off the mark from the start. They tried to make it an X5, when they should have made it as large as they physically could manage on the new platform. Like new Acadia, Atlas, Grand Highlander territory. The CX-70 should have been the tweener 2-row that slots in between the X3 and X5, going for sporty feel.

I think it's too early to tell. I've seen more of them on the road than I was expecting. It's a pretty unique product...a sporty-ish 3 row SUV with a bona fide platform. I think only the X7 is a valid comparison when viewed from that perspective, and that car is double the price. What Mazda has going for it is that it doesn't really have a direct competitor at its price point. The Telluride is nominally the biggest thorn to worry about, but I suspect that Mazda wasn't concerned about selling the kind of volume the Telluride (or CX-5/ CX-50) does. This car is more about establishing some credentials and I'm not surprised the first year models have some issues. I'd guess that some revised suspension and powertrain tuning will fix a lot of the complaints. I'm fairly certain that Mazda has established this platform as a "can't fail" product and will keep it well funded.

 

[05XR8]

It’s funny about the SUV CUV thing being a big deal, but at my local Mazda dealer, it’s currently been more like a BT-50 only dealer. Can’t say I’ve been seeing many Mazda CX vehicles. Think I’ve only seen one CX-8. Literally looks like an inflated Mazda6 wagon.

Probably doesn’t help that this particular automotive group, sell Subaru and Peugeot on one side and KIA and Audi on the other.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

The CX-70 has been delayed to 2024 and a new EV will come in 2025

Mazda CX-70 Delayed Until 2024, Electric SUV Due In 2025

Mazda North America CEO Tom Donnelly says the CX-70 has been pushed back until next year. In 2025, an EV version of an existing crossover will be launched.

www.motor1.com

Speaking with Automotive News, Mazda North America CEO Tom Donnelly announced the model will be launched in 2024. The original plan was to have it on sale by late 2023.

Much like the CX-90 is offered with a plug-in hybrid powertrain, Donnelly confirmed the CX-70 is also getting an electrified setup.

The newcomer is expected to come strictly with two rows of seats whereas the CX-90 can accommodate six or seven people, depending on configuration. Contrary to popular belief, the CX-70 isn't going to be smaller. In an official document published back in February to complement the FY March 2023 Third Quarter Financial Results Briefing, the Japanese brand said the CX-70 will be a "two-row model with the same body [as the CX-90]." You can access the document on Mazda's website.

In related news, Donnelly said an electric vehicle will be launched in North America in 2025, following the discontinuation of the slow-selling MX-30 after the 2023 model year. He mentioned it's going to use the name of an existing product, suggesting it'll probably be an SUV. Down the line, the head honcho mentioned additional EVs could be launched depending on customer demand.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

My observations seem to correlate with what's happening - the CX90 is doing well. So well that, combined with the CX-50 and CX-5, Mazda has made record profit this year and is on trend to sell a record number of cars in the US market. If I was spending 40k on a larger SUV and was deciding between the Telluride and the CX90...I'd definitely go CX90. I don't love how they look in pictures, but in real life they have serious presence. They just look so substantial somehow.

I really admire Mazda as a company. They make long term goals that are not merely marketing speak to bump the near-term stock price, they are genuine product & brand development strategies. When Mazda unveiled the Shinari concept in 2010 they were a much different automaker - lower end, recently divorced from Ford, a kind of ambiguous brand identity (the tribute?), and pretty vulnerable as a small company in a hypercompetitive segment - but that concept really marked out the future intent. The premium path was the only viable one for them (just look where value-brands Mitsubishi & Nissan have landed), and I think its been a remarkable feat of branding, business, and engineering to get where they are today.

 

[05XR8]

Juuuuust gonna place this here for a second.

Australia news: Mazda ordered to pay $11.5 million for misleading customers with faulty vehicles

Working for Mazda's service and warranty department in a couple dealerships during those years below, I can confirm this.
"The vehicles of concern were Mazda 2, 6, CX-5, CX-5B and BT-50 models purchased between 2013 and 2017. "

CX-5 diesel and BT-50 were the worse. The article mentions replacing a customer engine three times. Well a customer's brand new CX-5 had engines replaced same amount of times. The first engine, the turbo was replaced three times. For the next two new engines that blew up, the turbo was replaced first. The Customer was given a brand new CX-5 and that engine detonated as well.
Mazda Australia warranty HQ were so bad with assisting customers.

Add to this the customer mobile phone thing. To where Mazda's didn't have software compatible for iPhones. Owner spends $50000-$60000 for a Mazda 6. Sales person knows they can't pair the customer phone. Sends customer to service for a "software update" after first 1000km. So bad back then.

The Mazda 2 were fine. Just some niggles with upgrading parts for mechanic safety(plastic runners on metal edges of the engine bay to prevent mechanics from getting cut). Some software problems with Mazda Connect.

Mazda 6 had problems but not like the two below. Mainly that MZ Connect concern. The rotary dial would be removed and replaced.

BT-50 and Ranger were the same vehicle. Everything went wrong from bumper to bumper. BT-50 lug nuts would fail when removing wheels for service. EGR valves replaced on the regular.
Several brand new BT50s died after customer picked up vehicle.

So many stories...

 

[Keef]

Juuuuust gonna place this here for a second.

Australia news: Mazda ordered to pay $11.5 million for misleading customers with faulty vehicles

Working for Mazda's service and warranty department in a couple dealerships during those years below, I can confirm this.
"The vehicles of concern were Mazda 2, 6, CX-5, CX-5B and BT-50 models purchased between 2013 and 2017. "

CX-5 diesel and BT-50 were the worse. The article mentions replacing a customer engine three times. Well a customer's brand new CX-5 had engines replaced same amount of times. The first engine, the turbo was replaced three times. For the next two new engines that blew up, the turbo was replaced first. The Customer was given a brand new CX-5 and that engine detonated as well.
Mazda Australia warranty HQ were so bad with assisting customers.

Are these your personal stories? The article says there were only seven vehicles involved. How do you have so much personal experience with these issues?

Also apparently Australia has some sort of refund policy that the dealer was ignoring. Presumably the commission decided that Mazda corporate was directly at fault for this, rather than the dealer? Are the dealers themselves being punished in any way? It appears that Australia doesn't have a "lemon law" akin to US States' which basically say if it has to be repaired multiple times or is out of service for a certain period of time early in its life then you can get a refund or replacement. These are State laws in the US, not a national law. But lemon law attorneys are a thing here, and the concept is relatively widely known and talked about, so individuals who run into a possible lemon situation will get an attorney to fix it. I don't understand how out of a whopping seven vehicles in the entire country, none of those owners called a lemon law attorney, and frankly due to those individuals lack of doing the correct thing, somehow the company has to pay $11.5 million to 9 people over 7 cars. What the hell is going on down in Australia? I'm usually not on the side of corporations but this seems ridiculous. It would appear those customers didn't bother doing their due diligence and somehow that makes them money. All they would've had to do in the US is call a lemon law lawyer, everybody knows that.

Add to this the customer mobile phone thing. To where Mazda's didn't have software compatible for iPhones. Owner spends $50000-$60000 for a Mazda 6. Sales person knows they can't pair the customer phone. Sends customer to service for a "software update" after first 1000km. So bad back then.

Are you talking about Apple CarPlay? Mazdas of this era weren't compatible with CarPlay. A few years later, maybe around 2020, Mazda introduced a software update where people with older models (back to 2014/15 I think) could get CarPlay compatibility installed in their screens.

The Mazda 2 were fine. Just some niggles with upgrading parts for mechanic safety(plastic runners on metal edges of the engine bay to prevent mechanics from getting cut). Some software problems with Mazda Connect.

Mazda 6 had problems but not like the two below. Mainly that MZ Connect concern. The rotary dial would be removed and replaced.

BT-50 and Ranger were the same vehicle. Everything went wrong from bumper to bumper. BT-50 lug nuts would fail when removing wheels for service. EGR valves replaced on the regular.
Several brand new BT50s died after customer picked up vehicle.

So many stories...

I can't comment too much on reliability concerns because American Mazdas were generally above average, but we did have more problems with the Mexican-built cars than the American- or Japanese-built cars.

 

[05XR8]

Are these your personal stories? The article says there were only seven vehicles involved. How do you have so much personal experience with these issues?

Also apparently Australia has some sort of refund policy that the dealer was ignoring. Presumably the commission decided that Mazda corporate was directly at fault for this, rather than the dealer? Are the dealers themselves being punished in any way? It appears that Australia doesn't have a "lemon law" akin to US States' which basically say if it has to be repaired multiple times or is out of service for a certain period of time early in its life then you can get a refund or replacement. These are State laws in the US, not a national law. But lemon law attorneys are a thing here, and the concept is relatively widely known and talked about, so individuals who run into a possible lemon situation will get an attorney to fix it. I don't understand how out of a whopping seven vehicles in the entire country, none of those owners called a lemon law attorney, and frankly due to those individuals lack of doing the correct thing, somehow the company has to pay $11.5 million to 9 people over 7 cars. What the hell is going on down in Australia? I'm usually not on the side of corporations but this seems ridiculous. It would appear those customers didn't bother doing their due diligence and somehow that makes them money. All they would've had to do in the US is call a lemon law lawyer, everybody knows that.

Are you talking about Apple CarPlay? Mazdas of this era weren't compatible with CarPlay. A few years later, maybe around 2020, Mazda introduced a software update where people with older models (back to 2014/15 I think) could get CarPlay compatibility installed in their screens.

I can't comment too much on reliability concerns because American Mazdas were generally above average, but we did have more problems with the Mexican-built cars than the American- or Japanese-built cars.

Yes. All personal experience dealing with Mazda customers from 2011-2012(I left just as the CX-5 debuted). I left Mazda and went to Subaru from 2012-2014. Back to a different Mazda dealer 2014-2015(geez, 10 years ago).
The second Mazda dealer I worked for had customers with these concerns. I wouldn’t be surprised if these were customers I dealt with(briefly as the Service Manager and shop foreman would update the customer). Seriously, when the CX-5 customers complained and the car was off the road in the shop for long periods(weeks) we’d have to request Mazda Australia(MA) to provide the customers a loan car. The dealership had a certain amount of loan cars, but we’d have to ask sales for a car more than a few times. cars After exhausting that, Mazda Australia would drop off a loan car. A kick to the customer guts would be a top of the line Mazda6 wagon that the customer would want that car instead of getting their own car back.
I swear I mentioned a while ago how MA wouldn’t help the customer. It was a literal horror story.

I’m telling you MA wasn’t having that refund policy. The shop foreman would be in constant contact with MA’s lead technician. Parts would be thrown at it. Software. Shop foreman would take it home for a few days.
Replacing turbos was regular. Once a customer came in with a concern and whatever code came up during diagnostics the customer was told they’d have to leave the vehicle for an upgrade(that meant not telling them their engine is about to be toast). The car would have to stay nearly a week, turbo ordered removed and replaced. Car back into traffic.

About CarPlay that was all the salespeople selling cars when customers started shopping cars with what’s compatible with their phones. The salesperson would say the service department would do a software update(there was no update). Like I said it was bad business.

 

[Keef]

Yes. All personal experience dealing with Mazda customers from 2011-2012(I left just as the CX-5 debuted). I left Mazda and went to Subaru from 2012-2014. Back to a different Mazda dealer 2014-2015(geez, 10 years ago).
The second Mazda dealer I worked for had customers with these concerns. I wouldn’t be surprised if these were customers I dealt with(briefly as the Service Manager and shop foreman would update the customer). Seriously, when the CX-5 customers complained and the car was off the road in the shop for long periods(weeks) we’d have to request Mazda Australia(MA) to provide the customers a loan car. The dealership had a certain amount of loan cars, but we’d have to ask sales for a car more than a few times. cars After exhausting that, Mazda Australia would drop off a loan car. A kick to the customer guts would be a top of the line Mazda6 wagon that the customer would want that car instead of getting their own car back.
I swear I mentioned a while ago how MA wouldn’t help the customer. It was a literal horror story.

I’m telling you MA wasn’t having that refund policy. The shop foreman would be in constant contact with MA’s lead technician. Parts would be thrown at it. Software. Shop foreman would take it home for a few days.
Replacing turbos was regular. Once a customer came in with a concern and whatever code came up during diagnostics the customer was told they’d have to leave the vehicle for an upgrade(that meant not telling them their engine is about to be toast). The car would have to stay nearly a week, turbo ordered removed and replaced. Car back into traffic.

About CarPlay that was all the salespeople selling cars when customers started shopping cars with what’s compatible with their phones. The salesperson would say the service department would do a software update(there was no update). Like I said it was bad business.

Gotta be honest this sounds like equal parts crappy dealer management (the software thing) and crappy legal options/enforcement on the part of the government and legal system. Lemon laws are pretty cut and dry here, you contact a lawyer, the letters are sent, the job is done. It's a fact that companies will try to skirt rules whenever they can but that's why our highways are lined with ads for local attorneys lol. I don't doubt that all these companies in America wouldn't do the same thing that MA did if it weren't for the ease of getting legal enforcement.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

The CarPlay / Android Auto isn't a software update, it's a hardware update. The older cars' processors weren't capable of it. In order to upgrade it, you have to completely rip open the dash and center console to replace the system and wiring. I did the upgrade recently for my family's CX-5 before I drove it across the country and I haven't had any problems with it since

 

[05XR8]

Gotta be honest this sounds like equal parts crappy dealer management (the software thing) and crappy legal options/enforcement on the part of the government and legal system. Lemon laws are pretty cut and dry here, you contact a lawyer, the letters are sent, the job is done. It's a fact that companies will try to skirt rules whenever they can but that's why our highways are lined with ads for local attorneys lol. I don't doubt that all these companies in America wouldn't do the same thing that MA did if it weren't for the ease of getting legal enforcement.

Certainly. Just as a side bit of info about the second particular Mazda dealer I worked for, the owner was great. Great customer relations. He passed away and left his son-in-law as general manager. The relations went to crap. Another of the owner’s sons-in-law was service manager. Great guy. Too much pressure from dealing with customers and MA. He quit. An old school service manager came in. Hard nosed and did deal with customers with respect, but just bad with frontline employees. It became an unprofessional environment.
No real lemon laws here. As long as the customer’s car was being worked on and MA were sort of working on resolutions that’s all that was required. The warranty manager rarely left his desk. It was crazy.

The CarPlay / Android Auto isn't a software update, it's a hardware update. The older cars' processors weren't capable of it. In order to upgrade it, you have to completely rip open the dash and center console to replace the system and wiring. I did the upgrade recently for my family's CX-5 before I drove it across the country and I haven't had any problems with it since

You’ve got to imagine the number of average customers coming in back then with mobile concerns not knowing this. Not being informed of this. Customers that did research after buying their cars and pressuring the dealership to resolve the concerns. MA leaving it to the dealers with no update to a resolution. Just keep telling the customer they’ll get an update next service.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

The European CX-80 has been revealed and it's shorter than the American CX-70 and CX-90 while still having 3 rows

https://www.motor1.com/news/716552/2024-mazda-cx-80-reveal/

The new Mazda CX-80 for Europe has a diesel engine we don't get here in North America. It's an inline-six, 3.3-liter unit with mild-hybrid technology, shared with its CX-60 smaller brother. The oil-burner is good for 250 horsepower and 406 pound-feet of torque routed to all four wheels via an eight-speed automatic transmission. The diesel variant needs 8.4 seconds to reach 62 mph and tops at 136 mph.

Alternatively, customers can opt for the plug-in hybrid variant based on a 2.5-liter, four-cylinder gasoline engine working with an electric motor. It delivers a combined output of 323 hp and 369 lb-ft to match America's SUVs with the electrified setup. With the PHEV hardware, the CX-80 completes the sprint in 6.8 seconds and can reach 121 mph. Mazda touts an electric range of 33 miles courtesy of a 17.8-kilowatt-hour lithium-ion battery pack.

Mazda plans to sell the CX-80 with six or seven seats and either a pass-through or center console for the second row. All trim levels get three-zone climate control, a 12.3-inch touchscreen, and an instrument cluster of the same size. Other goodies include ventilated front seats, a Bose sound system, 20-inch wheels, and the Kinematic Posture Control (KPC) tech first seen on the Miata.

Cargo volume varies from 9.1 cubic feet with all seats in place to a cavernous 69.6 cubic feet after folding the second and third rows. With only the third row folded, luggage capacity is 43.1 cubic feet. An electrically operated tailgate is going to cost extra.

Size	CX-60	CX-80
Length	186.8	196.6
Width	74.4	74.4
Height	66.4	67.3
Wheelbase	113	122.8

Size	CX-70	CX-90
Length	200.8	200.8
Width	77.6	77.6
Height	68.2	68.2
Wheelbase	122.8	122.8

 

[Keef]

The European CX-80 has been revealed and it's shorter than the American CX-70 and CX-90 while still having 3 rows

https://www.motor1.com/news/716552/2024-mazda-cx-80-reveal/

View attachment 1348108

View attachment 1348109

View attachment 1348110

Size	CX-60	CX-80
Length	186.8	196.6
Width	74.4	74.4
Height	66.4	67.3
Wheelbase	113	122.8

Size	CX-70	CX-90
Length	200.8	200.8
Width	77.6	77.6
Height	68.2	68.2
Wheelbase	122.8	122.8

TIL the 70 and 90 have exactly the same exterior. I could've sworn from images that the 70 was shorter but I guess not. An odd choice in my opinion, especially since a category like the Passport exists, all of which have shorter lengths than their 3-row counterparts.