McLaren "invited" to a extraordinary WMSC meeting

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They're all smiling, they're joking, they have some kind of personality. With the McLaren and to a lesser extent, Ferrari drivers, its all serious business (though Massa isn't always bad, its really Raikkonen letting the side down).
I think I saw Kimi laugh once during a podium conference. :D
 
And he once made Martin Brundle incredibly uncomfortable, live on national television at about 1.30pm...

MB: Kimi! You missed the presentation by Pele then?
KR: Yeah, I was having a 🤬
MB: Oh. So you'll have a nice light car then?
 
Kimi has his moments, but they are few and far between. I did laugh when I saw his latest clip though.
 
Let's not forget Renault was found guilty of having the entire previous 2 seasons' McLaren on their main computer system just a matter of weeks later - far more damning than one employee having access to the 2007 Ferrari and using it with no evidence to suggest his employers knew anything about it - but had no similar punishment...

Which is what made that decision even worse.
 
But did Renaut actually use the data in the design of their car? I'm not expert on the subject - hell, I didn't know that they had two seasons' worth until famine posted as much - but I imagine that the answer to whether or not it was used would play a major part in the case against Renault. That their car was so poor would suggest it was not.

I wouldn't be surprised if all the teams possessed data from other cars in some way, shape or form. After all, once someone comes up with a new aerodynamic thingamajig, it's only a matter of time before everyone else has one, too. I suppose you could describe it accurately enough that your designers can re-create it, but surely by comparing lap times both before and after the part was introduced, you could reverse-engineer it with some degree of accuracy.
 
The FIA is going too far in trying to punish McLaren-Mercedes. Disqualifying them from the Australian GP is enough especially when you consider the fact that the idiotic stewards shouldn't have made those mistakes under the safety car period in question.

With that said, I hope the FIA does go too far and drives Lewis Hamilton and Mercedes-Benz out of F1 and towards the IndyCar Series! I bet Team Penske would love to have Lewis Hamilton. Vodafone owns 45% of Verizon which already sponsors Penske's IndyCar and NASCAR teams. A few extra million from Vodafone/Verizon would guarantee Lewis Hamilton a full-time seat for the top IndyCar team. Team Penske is also Mercedes' former factory IndyCar team. They could be Mercedes' factory IndyCar team again if Mercedes-Benz decides to build engines for the next-generation IndyCar.
 
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Keep Dreamin' :)
 
At the beginning of 1992, how many race fans thought Nigel Mansell would race (and Ayrton Senna would consider racing) IndyCars full-time in 1993? Both drivers got tired of politics ruining racing in F1. And guess which IndyCar team tested Ayrton Senna and offered him a contract at the end of 1992? Team Penske.

Today, the FIA's overzealousness is ruining Lewis Hamilton and McLaren-Mercedes. History could repeat itself if Lewis Hamilton, Vodafone/Verizon, and Mercedes-Benz express interest in coming to the IndyCar Series. It could happen... :)
 
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:lol: It could, but I think if Lewis does walk out of McMerc he will try and find another f1 team.
 
Mercedes won't go to IndyCar. Not when Brawn are doing so well.
 
Mercedes won't go to IndyCar. Not when Brawn are doing so well.

My thought exactly. They may leave McLaren for Brawn, and try to get Hamilton to move with them. Jense and Lewis in the same team, anyone?

I´m also pretty sure Hamilton will stay in F1 for as long as he can. Sadly I think he may feel that he owes McLaren just about everything, and could stay with the ship as it goes down, for that reason.
 
The FIA is going too far in trying to punish McLaren-Mercedes. Disqualifying them from the Australian GP is enough especially when you consider the fact that the idiotic stewards shouldn't have made those mistakes under the safety car period in question.

With that said, I hope the FIA does go too far and drives Lewis Hamilton and Mercedes-Benz out of F1 and towards the IndyCar Series! I bet Team Penske would love to have Lewis Hamilton. Vodapone owns 45% of Verizon which already sponsors Penske's IndyCar and NASCAR teams. A few extra million from Vodapone/Verizon would guarantee Lewis Hamilton a full-time seat for the top IndyCar team. Team Penske is also Mercedes' former factory IndyCar team. They could be Mercedes' factory IndyCar team again if Mercedes-Benz decides to build engines for the next-generation IndyCar.

I'm sorry but I highly doubt Mercedes are going to be annoyed at the FIA for this.

If the FIA didn't punish McLaren further, it would make Toyota more likely to leave, as they have already considered leaving before. I think the FIA should worry about that first rather than Mercedes.

Honestly, this just sounds like hopeful day-dreaming.
 
My thought exactly. They may leave McLaren for Brawn, and try to get Hamilton to move with them. Jense and Lewis in the same team, anyone?
Won't happen. The way Brawn are going, they'll be able to establish themselves in such a way that they'll be free to pick their own drivers. If Mercedes want to interfere with that, they're welcome to try, but the most likely result will be Brawn ending their partnership and getting a new engine supplier. They'll have the power to do that, given their results. They may even welcome Honda back into the fold as a supplier. Brawn is happy with his two drivers for now: he's worked with Barrichello before, and he's arleady stated that he regrets not looking closely at Button as a potential Ferrari driver. It's McLaren who have Hamilton under contract, not Mercedes. Ross Brawn is as savvy as they come, and no doubt he's picked up on the fact that ever since McLaren signed Hamilton, they've consistently made the kind of mistakes that get your penalised and that Hamilton threw away one championship and won the second on luck. Brawn would have to know that the true test of a driver's ability is how he handles a car that is diffcult to drive: Button and Barrichello showed exceptional loyalty to Honda in a dismal 2007 and 2008, but there's already talk that Hamilton may jump ship from McLaren two races in with a bad car (and given the way those two races ended - one under the safety car and one before its time - it's difficult to judge Hamilton in a poor car). From a completely objective standpoint, I'd say that all of that combined with Hamilton's pricey fee would mean he's more trouble than he's worth going into the team's second season, widely considered the most critical to their success.
 
Mercedes won't go to IndyCar. Not when Brawn are doing so well.
Mercedes-Benz may not leave F1, but that doesn't mean they won't build IndyCar engines again. The idea that Mercedes-Benz would return to America as an IndyCar engine manufacturer isn't far-fetched given the fact that North America is Mercedes-Benz' biggest market, F1 abandoned North America, Mercedes-Benz was a winning IndyCar engine manufacturer, and Ilmor currently designs and builds the current Mercedes-Benz F1 engine and the current Honda IndyCar engine.
 
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If the FIA didn't punish McLaren further, it would make Toyota more likely to leave, as they have already considered leaving before. I think the FIA should worry about that first rather than Mercedes.

Toyota already got their 3rd spot back. It doesn't help them any more if McLaren gets penalized further.

Unfortunately, this only has the side effect of alienating McLaren, which might consider leaving if the penalty's too heavy (remember they got the highest fine in F1 2 years before).

The way Brawn are going, they'll be able to establish themselves in such a way that they'll be free to pick their own drivers. If Mercedes want to interfere with that, they're welcome to try, but the most likely result will be Brawn ending their partnership and getting a new engine supplier. They'll have the power to do that, given their results. They may even welcome Honda back into the fold as a supplier.

Ok, I'm trying to wrap my head around this one...

..............Wha?

First off, exactly why would Brawn get rid of MercBenz for bringing them.......Hamilton? A marketing dream by himself, even more so with the prospect of an all British team on a British-oriented sport? And they'd be upset at THAT???

And let's not even get into the logic of ditching Mercedes engines for Honda....
 
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Which was completely justified for what they did.

Personal opinions aside, if they believe it was excessive, and that the punishments are too much, they could leave F1. And they wouldn't do so unless they had a compelling reason to.
 
Toyota already got their 3rd spot back. It doesn't help them any more if McLaren gets penalized further.

Unfortunately, this only has the side effect of alienating McLaren, which might consider leaving if the penalty's too heavy (remember they got the highest fine in F1 2 years before).

Erm, no, you do realise McLaren lying was essentially getting Toyota unfairly penalised? Do you think Toyota enjoyed this? If I was Toyota I would certainly expect further punishment otherwise what are the FIA saying? That teams can lie to the stewards as long as they admit it later? That its ok for teams to act unfairly and un-sportsman-like towards other teams?

McLaren were stupid enough to continue to lie against the evidence and they only have themselves to blame, if they don't expect further punishment then they are even more stupid than I thought, I think they fully expect it and will take it in their stride, as they did last time.

Lets just hope this time McLaren learn their lesson but I have serious doubts, especially with Whitmarch's apparent story-spinning.
 
As I've always said; The FIA are as always trying to screw over Lewis and McLaren. The politics that are taking over this sport are unbelievably sad.

The only issue I did agree with the FIA was when they fined McLaren for that spying scandal, that is something that should be severely punished. But something like this should not be blown out of proportion as it has.
 
As I've always said; The FIA are as always trying to screw over Lewis and McLaren. The politics that are taking over this sport are unbelievably sad.

The only issue I did agree with the FIA was when they fined McLaren for that spying scandal, that is something that should be severely punished. But something like this should not be blown out of proportion as it has.

Yes, McLaren being unsporting is perfectly acceptable and the FIA are in the wrong, hmm?
I'm sorry McLaren fans and conspiracy theorists...this is beyond silly now. The only thing the FIA have done wrong in this case was not sorting out this incident earlier, but that does not mean McLaren are right to lie (twice!).

This is nothing to do with a conspiracy against Lewis, why on earth would the FIA wish to surround their current champion in controversy? Its not good for him, the sport or the FIA.
 
As I've always said; The FIA are as always trying to screw over Lewis and McLaren. The politics that are taking over this sport are unbelievably sad.

The only issue I did agree with the FIA was when they fined McLaren for that spying scandal, that is something that should be severely punished. But something like this should not be blown out of proportion as it has.

Really?
The fact is McLaren lied to the stewards, when confronted with the radio conversation they still lied.
Hamilton was told by his team to lie, he agreed to lie & did so.

It sounds pretty straightforward to me, McLaren & Hamilton both lied to the stewards.
Lewis should have told McLaren he would not lie, but since he did it's a bit late to say he only lied because they told him to.
When it comes to morality, "I was just following orders" just don't cut it!
 
What he did was not right, I agree with you guys on that. However I feel that they've already punished him for his actions. They DQ'd him from the race that this all took place at. I don't see why the FIA are continuing to press this issue further, it's completely unnecessary in my opinion.

At the same time, you cannot really blame Hamilton. From what I've seen and read, it seems as though he was told to lie to the stewards. I can believe this because his first interview after the race, he told the truth, so it's quite likely that he was told after that interview to say something else. The guy is young, and visibly said whatever he was told to say.

I really think that the FIA do have something against Lewis. We will have to see what occurs and results from this meeting. I'm going to be very disappointed if this results in Hamilton being DQ'd from the championship this year.
 
What he did was not right, I agree with you guys on that. However I feel that they've already punished him for his actions. They DQ'd him from the race that this all took place at. I don't see why the FIA are continuing to press this issue further, it's completely unnecessary in my opinion.

At the same time, you cannot really blame Hamilton. From what I've seen and read, it seems as though he was told to lie to the stewards. I can believe this because his first interview after the race, he told the truth, so it's quite likely that he was told after that interview to say something else. The guy is young, and visibly said whatever he was told to say.

I really think that the FIA do have something against Lewis. We will have to see what occurs and results from this meeting. I'm going to be very disappointed if this results in Hamilton being DQ'd from the championship this year.

But no-one has said they will do anything to Lewis? :odd: You are the only one to have suggested this.

McLaren are the ones in trouble here, though Lewis is hardly blame-less in the matter - it sounds so silly for him to say basically "I'm an honest person, but I lied, ok?" :lol:

But I doubt Hamilton will get any more punishment for this, the next punishment will be to McLaren themselves for not learning their lessons from Spygate.
 
Erm, no, you do realise McLaren lying was essentially getting Toyota unfairly penalised? Do you think Toyota enjoyed this? If I was Toyota I would certainly expect further punishment otherwise what are the FIA saying? That teams can lie to the stewards as long as they admit it later? That its ok for teams to act unfairly and un-sportsman-like towards other teams?

McLaren already got penalized, did you not notice? They were ejected from the results in Australia. What they did only affected Australia. Nothing else beyond that is needed.
 
McLaren already got penalized, did you not notice? They were ejected from the results in Australia. What they did only affected Australia. Nothing else beyond that is needed.

Yes, and I am referring to additional penalties for the apparent intentions of McLaren. We are no longer referring to just the lying, its the idea that McLaren felt they could get away with this and how much they respect their rival teams. Not to mention McLaren clearly didn't learn their lesson from the last time they met the WMSC - of course a repeat offender is going to be more harshly penalised, eventually they have to start playing by the same rules as everyone else.
This affects more than Australia, it affects the respect of the other teams, the stewards and the FIA - they clearly do not respect any of them if they find it so easy to lie to the other team's detriment and effectively "using" the stewards in doing so.
 
what he did was not right, i agree with you guys on that. However i feel that they've already punished him for his actions. They dq'd him from the race that this all took place at. I don't see why the fia are continuing to press this issue further, it's completely unnecessary in my opinion.

At the same time, you cannot really blame hamilton. From what i've seen and read, it seems as though he was told to lie to the stewards. I can believe this because his first interview after the race, he told the truth, so it's quite likely that he was told after that interview to say something else. The guy is young, and visibly said whatever he was told to say.

I really think that the fia do have something against lewis. We will have to see what occurs and results from this meeting. I'm going to be very disappointed if this results in hamilton being dq'd from the championship this year.

+1
 
McLaren already got penalized, did you not notice? They were ejected from the results in Australia. What they did only affected Australia. Nothing else beyond that is needed.

That's BS and we all know it. To make the mistake is one thing, to lie to the race stewards on TWO SEPARATE OCCASIONS is another issue altogether and they should be punished accordingly for lying to the stewards. A minimum two race ban should be applied for this, and they'll be lucky if they don't get scratched from the whole season and end up using 2009 as a test bed for 2010.
 
Yes, and I am referring to additional penalties for the apparent intentions of McLaren. We are no longer referring to just the lying, its the idea that McLaren felt they could get away with this and how much they respect their rival teams. Not to mention McLaren clearly didn't learn their lesson from the last time they met the WMSC - of course a repeat offender is going to be more harshly penalised, eventually they have to start playing by the same rules as everyone else.
This affects more than Australia, it affects the respect of the other teams, the stewards and the FIA - they clearly do not respect any of them if they find it so easy to lie to the other team's detriment and effectively "using" the stewards in doing so.

Oh, I love how the FIA feels the need of raising the moral pedestal in a sport. If there's anyone who doesn't respect F1 teams is the FIA/FOM tandem. Remember when the teams all agreed to the "medals system" and were consulted according to Bernie? Someone correct me if that's not a lie. But when the bosses do it, it's not disrupting the moral fiber of F1 (or should I say "moral latex", Mr Mosley?)

And how long ago were McLaren first penalized - two years ago? When they had someone else as team director? Do they consider every single fault they've had through history? Hey, I've got an idea - ban them for life! Might as well. That'll make sure nobody commits the same mistakes again! :rolleyes:
 
Oh, I love how the FIA feels the need of raising the moral pedestal in a sport. If there's anyone who doesn't respect F1 teams is the FIA/FOM tandem. Remember when the teams all agreed to the "medals system" and were consulted according to Bernie? Someone correct me if that's not a lie. But when the bosses do it, it's not disrupting the moral fiber of F1 (or should I say "moral latex", Mr Mosley?)

And how long ago were McLaren first penalized - two years ago? When they had someone else as team director? Do they consider every single fault they've had through history? Hey, I've got an idea - ban them for life! Might as well. That'll make sure nobody commits the same mistakes again! :rolleyes:

I say again - do you really think its ok for them to screw other teams over and cheat? This is what we are talking about here, not some political rubbish. Just disqualifying them from the race is never going to be enough, this is far too serious for that, but I guess you don't feel that cheating in a sport isn't so serious, hm?

Also, if you were the FIA and McLaren yet again didn't take their punishment seriously and again tried to cheat in some form, would you really not have a bias after all this? I can imagine they are sick of McLaren repeatedly making this mistake and will be looking to make sure they don't do it again and if not, repeatedly penalise them each time they do make such offenses until they get their heads in order.
 
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