McLaren "invited" to a extraordinary WMSC meeting

  • Thread starter Thread starter Hun200kmh
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SUPER NUMBBER
But when the bosses do it, it's not disrupting the moral fiber of F1 (or should I say "moral latex", Mr Mosley?)
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While I certainly don’t see the FIA as the absolute incarnation of integrity, I believe you’re mixing inappropriate matters here.

McLaren - as a team - acted pretty stupidly in this precise case, and will now have to face WMSC with the very uncomfortable “Recidivist” label.

Considering the absurdity of the cheating in this so called “lie-gate” and the fact they were already wiped out of the Australian’s table-sheets, I guess a symbolic punishment could suffice...

What about asking the whole team to wear donkey bonnets during reconnaissance or parade laps for every remaining GP?

Unless Mosley and/or the FIA has more extreme ambitions of course.:scared:
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I think it's pretty stupid to punish them, then decide hey lets punish them again in case the first one wasn't enough:ouch:
 
The whole point of the hearing is to decide if further punishment is necessary.

All other issues in F1, such as the brake "cheat", Ferrari's flexible wings, Renault's mass damper and the current diffuser issue are all part and parcel of the "game"... playing around gray areas of the rules.

Even the use of run-off areas, which Lewis was both fairly and unfairly penalized for last year (fairly when he overtook on the run-off... unfairly when they changed the rule after he gave back a place and overtook on the next corner when Kimi overcooked it) is fair-play, as long as you try to stay within the letter of the rules.

But outright obstruction (Schumi's qualifying "glitch" which saw him blocking the track during the closing of qualifying... McLaren's slowing down in qualifying while others were hotlapping...), knocking opponents off track and other such behavior have no place in the sport.

I think, upon reflection, that this does fall into the category of such "race incidents", and a penalty applied to the race following the hearing will suffice to punish McLaren.

Others have been caught lying about in-race incidents, only to be shown up by race data (Schumi's aforementioned qualifying bodge), but no season-wide penalties were given.

I won't be surprised, though, if McLaren is hit with a pretty stiff monetary fine.
 
Alex.
I think it's pretty stupid to punish them, then decide hey lets punish them again in case the first one wasn't enough:ouch:
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I think it's pretty stupid for the stewards to make a decision when they have all the facts and a lot of time at their disposal in a 10 minute gap after a race finishes... Then blame McLaren for lying to them. Why were the stewards in such a rush? :/

Buuuuuuuut, if (and only if) McLaren actually lied to the stewards - they deserve to be punished more. Anyone who is saying otherwise does not know what unsporting means. Purposely getting another team disqualified for your own gain is wrong and should be met with severe punishment (more severe what had already been given). I can't believe people are even arguing this - those who are, are giving McLaren, Hamilton and F1 fans a bad name by portraying they have done no wrong.

Now, what I will say is that I am still dubious. If the stewards are so certain, to the point of taking further action and not letting it drop, why has the transcript of the meetings not been released? The team radio tape has been released - why not the transcript? All this is doing is adding fuel to the fire for "conspiracy theories" and it's entirely understandable that people will induldge in it.

Edit: Good post, niky.
 
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bicycleshorts
Buuuuuuuut, if (and only if) McLaren actually lied to the stewards - they deserve to be punished more. Anyone who is saying otherwise does not know what unsporting means. Purposely getting another team disqualified for your own gain is wrong and should be met with severe punishment (more severe what had already been given). I can't believe people are even arguing this - those who are, are giving McLaren, Hamilton and F1 fans a bad name by portraying they have done no wrong.

Now, what I will say is that I am still dubious. If the stewards are so certain, to the point of taking further action and not letting it drop, why has the transcript of the meetings not been released? The team radio tape has been released - why not the transcript? All this is doing is adding fuel to the fire for "conspiracy theories" and it's entirely understandable that people will induldge in it.

Edit: Good post, niky.
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Hamilton admitted that he lied at the teams (or just Ryan's?) request.
 
peterjford
Hamilton admitted that he lied at the teams (or just Ryan's?) request.
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I still think Ryan was a bit of a scapegoat. I can't believe that anyone is stupid enough to walk into a meeting and say:
"I wasn't told to let him past."

Then walk out and go to live TV broadcast all over the world and say:
"I was told to let him past."

Does that honestly sound like the actions of a sane human being? Perhaps I have too much faith in humanity...

Of course I can't prove/disprove this until either:
1. The transcript is released. Edit: Actually, this probably wouldn't work either. If McLaren were willing to have a scape goat I'm sure they were willing to lie and say the transcript was official. So I'll drop it for now.
2. The news of the world takes a picture of a dumpertruck full of money with a McLaren logo on the side showing up at Ryan's doorstep :lol:

Edit: I should also probably say that at the minute I'm sitting on the fence - but trying to point out why this conspiracy exists. I don't believe that Lewis/McLaren can be stupid enough to lie to the FIA but at the same time I don't believe the FIA are "out to get McLaren". It all seems very bizarre to me.

What I will say is that the FIA have now clearly chosen their interpretation of the events and based on that a massive punishment should be dealt out.
 
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Sky News is reporting that McLaren have received a suspended 3 race ban...
 
That's good, isn't it? If they manage to not do it again - and let's face it, are they really going to try - then they won't get banned.

Now can we please stop this nonsense about the FIA having it in for McLaren?
 
This is 🤬. They're gonna miss the Monaco GP!
 
PeterJB
This is 🤬. They're gonna miss the Monaco GP!
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Not necessarily.

FIA statement
That penalty is a suspension of the team from three races of the FIA Formula One World Championship. This will only be applied if further facts emerge regarding the case or if, in the next 12 months, there is a further breach by the team of article 151c of the International Sporting Code.
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So in other words they have no punishment at all, and a team can lie as much as they want to the FIA as long as they change their attitute, restructure their management and apologise afterwards.

It's hardly cracking down on providing misleading information in the sport is it?
 
PeterJB
This is 🤬. They're gonna miss the Monaco GP!
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What?

The link says that IF mclaren lie again(further evidence of them lying is found) then the penalty of a 3 race suspension will apply. If they behave for the next 12 months they are free to race.
 
Alex.
So in other words they have no punishment at all, and a team can lie as much as they want to the FIA as long as they change their attitute, restructure their management and apologise afterwards.

It's hardly cracking down on providing misleading information in the sport is it?
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It's maybe a dangerous precedent, but in any other case, with any other team, the FIA can always say that there are different circumstances that justify different measures. As for me, I'm glad McLaren will be able to race.

Let's just hope the remaining championship goes on without further ".......-gates"
 
J-PaP
What?

The link says that IF mclaren lie again(further evidence of them lying is found) then the penalty of a 3 race suspension will apply. If they behave for the next 12 months they are free to race.
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Oh right. I must have misunderstood it. :dunce:
 
Hun200kmh
Let's just hope the remaining championship goes on without further ".......-gates"
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Just a shame that Dave Ryan wasn't put on "gardening leave" then it could be called gardengate.

Any scandal involving the rain in Malaysia should have been called floodgate.


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:lol:!

Nice ones.
 
Alex.
So in other words they have no punishment at all, and a team can lie as much as they want to the FIA as long as they change their attitute, restructure their management and apologise afterwards.
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Er, not really. A suspension of 3 races isn't the strongest punishment they could have been given, but the FIA know the embarrassment factor to McLaren has been immense. As much as I like McLaren, they were completely stupid and embarrassment is a big punishment, brought on by themselves. It takes a long time to gain respect.
 
That essentially is a meaningless penalty, unless one of two things happen:

1. More evidence comes up about this issue.
2. They screw up like this again within 12mths.

The way I see it, they'll have a better chance of having option 1 happen rather than option 2....they won't want to do this again.
 
Lest we forget, FOM wouldn't be pleased if it turned out they'll have just 18 cars on the grid - even if just for three races...
 
Famine
Sky News is reporting that McLaren have received a suspended 3 race ban...
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I was right. They did get a ban. I was expecting loss of points or disqualification more than a ban. Ah well, moving on.
 
J-PaP
What?

The link says that IF mclaren lie again(further evidence of them lying is found) then the penalty of a 3 race suspension will apply. If they behave for the next 12 months they are free to race.
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This is McLaren we're talking about here. They are definately going to lie again. Probably not get caught but they will lie again.
 
PJ-FFL
This is McLaren F1 we're talking about here. They are Everyone is definitely going to lie again. Probably not get caught but they will lie again.
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Corrected. The whole nature of F1 begs for rule-bending and clever interpretations, for on-the-limit strategies, secrets and lies, in order to gain that advantage - and on the other front, on ruthless research and spying in order to protest whatever advantages the others have gained. Every team has something to hide.
 
PJ-FFL
I was right. They did get a ban. I was expecting loss of points or disqualification more than a ban. Ah well, moving on.
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McLaren isnt banned from any races, they are only put on a short leash.

A second offense would result in a 3 race ban
 
They couldn't be banned from any races for this. It wouldn't exactly be fair on Heikki Kovalainen would it.
 
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Alex.
So in other words they have no punishment at all, and a team can lie as much as they want to the FIA as long as they change their attitute, restructure their management and apologise afterwards.

It's hardly cracking down on providing misleading information in the sport is it?
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A loss of all points for the race and a possible ban for repeat offenses is no punishment at all?

RE: Lie all you want... "Yes, we have all this McLaren data on our servers at headquarters (whereas the Ferrari documents were only found in the possession of the ex-Ferrari-man working at McLaren, not anywhere or on anyone else...), but nosirree, we didn't use it at all, we didn't even look at it... didn't even know it was on our machines... sure, we'll just erase it for you and you can let us go on racing, right? Right?"

F1 is all about the unfair advantage... untold amounts have been spent by various teams to lie, cheat and steal their way to the podium... various strange and downright illegal rule interpretations... and even outright sabotage.

It's not right, but then, I hardly expect the cheating to end with this.
 
PeterJB
This is 🤬. They're gonna miss the Monaco GP!
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Oh can you imagine the tragedy of it, Lewis Hamilton not racing at Monaco? What would BBC do with themselves?

But its only a suspended sentence for now.
 
[FPV]Rusty;3382824
Oh can you imagine the tragedy of it, Lewis Hamilton not racing at Monaco? What would BBC do with themselves?
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Show coverage of the F1? :dopey:

Unless you can show me some proof that they are as rediculously biased as you seem to think, I will defend the BBC coverage as much as I can - I don't want it to be taken away, its far far better than anything we've had before (including the BBC's reign before 1997).
 
Tired Tyres
Details on the Melbourne incident on the official F1 site

Interesting reading.

http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2009/5/9297.html
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Well, I think for anyone still undecided before (including me), it's quite clear now:

[Team Radio]
LH: I let him past already.

[1st Metting]
He informed the Stewards that there were no problems with his car and that he had drifted right because he was checking his lap time and was concerned that his tyres were cold. Hamilton was then asked whether he had consciously let Trulli pass. He said “no”.

I was hoping it would be misinterpretation or a simple case of not supplying all the facts but it wasn't. I personally don't think the punishment was enough and whilst I like McLaren and Lewis Hamilton (even under the instructions of the team to lie) - they should be punished further.

In the UK (at least amongst the people I talk to) there still seems to be an opinion of "FIA out to get Lewis".
 
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