MH17 Crash In Ukraine. Known info in OP.

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Dotini
FOX now reports a BUK missile system was seized by separatists from a Ukrainian base.
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I'd bet money that they have several in possession.

EDIT: Just saw the mentioned footage with the paper etc. falling down, doesn't look like from the impact indeed.
 
Maybe it is just my imagination, but in this video footage of the moments after the impact, you can see a vertical line/patch at the top of the image just left of centre in the initial frames, that then drift away as the footage continues...



I noticed it the first time I saw it, and the more I look at it the more I think it looks like smoke and not just clouds, since the clouds in the background don't noticably change between 0.00 and 0:40, but the vertical smoke plume seems to all but disappear.
 
I know it's slightly left of field but what if it was a bomb that just happened to have blown up over Ukraine?

How insecure the crash site currently is is worrying. Usually when a plane goes down in a country that country has a government that's fully in control to secure it!

Touring Mars
Maybe it is just my imagination, but in this video footage of the moments after the impact, you can see a vertical line/patch at the top of the image just left of centre in the initial frames, that then drift away as the footage continues...

I noticed it the first time I saw it, and the more I look at it the more I think it looks like smoke and not just clouds, since the clouds in the background don't noticably change between 0.00 and 0:40, but the vertical smoke plume seems to all but disappear.
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Might be an engine, being that they are heavy it fell out of the sky horizontally leaving the smoke trail, that or it might be the smoke trail from a missile.
 
Another predictive twit:
Y_fAyxHC7Ok.jpg

It says:
Soon, a plane full of innocent Euro-tourists will be shot down above Ruine ["Ukraine"]. This will be the reason for official invitation of NATO. That's how I see.
 
The leader of the DPR has stated that he will allow foreign investigators to the crash site.
 
The bomb theory doesn't add up as the fireball was relatively close to the ground. Had it been a bomb, it would have been seen with little to no fire, just parts exploding.
 
@Touring Mars, good find. The smoke is definitely there but I think that trail (it definitely seems to be there) is from the same mass that we then see exploding.

If so it's a vertical plunge, that's a catastrophic high-altitude separation (if not disintegration).
 
Just wondering, would an approaching missile give a warning in the cockpit of a commercial airliner in a similar way to a military one? If so would it be possible to do evasive manoeuvres?
 
Cnn have an interview with a freelance journalist now and he states that the debris field is well over 5km. So it is safe to say that it broke up in the air.
 
Robin.
Just wondering, would an approaching missile give a warning in the cockpit of a commercial airliner in a similar way to a military one? If so would it be possible to do evasive manoeuvres?
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Evasive manoeuvres in that? Planes that large are not agile enough to do that.
 
Mixed feelings about the contrast between this incident and MH370. Because it's in a populated area, everything is on social media, including pictures of deceased all across the site, of all ages, some still strapped in their seats. Gruesome sight, and pretty disrespectful, but then again, is it better to find out because someone tweeted a picture of your loved ones (passport) or wait until official confirmation a few days later? Again, mixed feelings about this.
 
haitch40
Evasive manoeuvres in that? Planes that large are not agile enough to do that.
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In a few flight sims I have played (not many) if you drop the nose and dive then pul up full force , it can pull the wings off similar things happen with sudden rolls , absolutely correct..👍

Thank god no ground casualties reported
 
haitch40
Evasive manoeuvres in that? Planes that large are not agile enough to do that.
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They are, civilian planes have load tolerances way over normal operating conditions and you could make it rise, dive or roll extremely quickly if needed. Sure it's not safe but it is do able without it breaking apart. 150% + of limit load....



You get similarly sized military aircraft like transport planes which can change direction very quickly and Air Force One for example can do evasive manoeuvres and its an old civilian plane (slightly modified).
 
Touring Mars
Maybe it is just my imagination, but in this video footage of the moments after the impact, you can see a vertical line/patch at the top of the image just left of centre in the initial frames, that then drift away as the footage continues...



I noticed it the first time I saw it, and the more I look at it the more I think it looks like smoke and not just clouds, since the clouds in the background don't noticably change between 0.00 and 0:40, but the vertical smoke plume seems to all but disappear.
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Could you circle what you seen I have trouble making out what you are suggesting , not arguing just may be very faint or I need glasses

@Robin they can but not at the rates needed to avoid a missile.. They haven't got the wing rates for that , unlike a fighter jet
 
The Ukrainian foreign minister is speaking on Sky News at the moment, claiming that the Ukrainian government has evidence in the form of intercepted phone calls between two Russian officers (he says GRU Ministry of Defence) who appear to have been discussing the attack at 4.20 pm. He also claims to have intercepted phone calls from "terrorists" who arrived on the crash scene first and recognised that the downed plane was a civilian jet. The Ukrainian government spokesman appears then to claim that they are conducting a "criminal case, not terrorist, criminal case..." and "which was conducted by... those two GRU officers of the Russian federation". :sick:

vasiliflame
Could you circle what you seen I have trouble making out what you are suggesting , not arguing just may be very faint or I need glasses
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Above the blast site, slightly to the left - only visible when the camera is zoomed out at the start of the vid. Pausing and clicking between 0.00 and 0.40, you should see a vertical plume/smudge appear (at the start) and disappear (at ~0.40)
 
RIP to those poor souls who died a terrible death because of human stupidity again.
 
vasiliflame
Could you circle what you seen I have trouble making out what you are suggesting , not arguing just may be very faint or I need glasses
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It's just left of the crash, at the top of the footage going down. A faint black plume. Hard to see on a small screen but on my tv I saw it too.
 
haitch40
Evasive manoeuvres in that? Planes that large are not agile enough to do that.
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Well, I've heard about a Russian plane that was flying above Syria and was fired a missile at, but the pilot (a former military pilot) evaded it. That was very close.

Touring Mars
The Ukrainian foreign minister is speaking on Sky News at the moment, claiming that the Ukrainian government has evidence in the form of intercepted phone calls between two Russian officers (he says GRU Ministry of Defence) who appear to have been discussing the attack at 4.20 pm. He also claims to have intercepted phone calls from "terrorists" who arrived on the crash scene first and recognised that the downed plane was a civilian jet. The Ukrainian government spokesman appears then to claim that they are conducting a "criminal case, not terrorist, criminal case..." and "which was conducted by... those two GRU officers of the Russian federation". :sick:
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"Russian officers", "GRU agents" - this is how Ukrainian officials label anyone who opposes them.
 
Yup, definitely there on the vid.

Robin.
Just wondering, would an approaching missile give a warning in the cockpit of a commercial airliner in a similar way to a military one? If so would it be possible to do evasive manoeuvres?
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No, very few civil aircraft carry such equipment. VC-25s (ie Air Force presidential airliners) do, naturally.

You wouldn't "evade" in those aircraft though, missiles just need to get near and explode. You'd mitigate by dropping flares/chaff depending on the nature of the perceived threat. But civilian airliners don't carry that tech or the mitigation equipment.

@RageRacer which flight was that? I've never ever heard of it, I'd love to get into that :)
 
Touring Mars
The Ukrainian foreign minister is speaking on Sky News at the moment, claiming that the Ukrainian government has evidence in the form of intercepted phone calls between two Russian officers (he says GRU Ministry of Defence) who appear to have been discussing the attack at 4.20 pm. He also claims to have intercepted phone calls from "terrorists" who arrived on the crash scene first and recognised that the downed plane was a civilian jet. The Ukrainian government spokesman appears then to claim that they are conducting a "criminal case, not terrorist, criminal case..." and "which was conducted by... those two GRU officers of the Russian federation". :sick:



Above the blast site, slightly to the left - only visible when the camera is zoomed out at the start of the vid. Pausing and clicking between 0.00 and 0.40, you should see a vertical plume/smudge appear (at the start) and disappear (at ~0.40)
Click to expand...


Is this what you are seeing ?.? Buddy
image.jpg
 
Yes, circled in orange...

Rage Racer
"Russian officers", "GRU agents" - this is how Ukrainian officials label anyone who opposes them.
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He was pretty specific - he publicly named them both. He also said the audio will be released to anyone connected to the flight.
 
Well if that is the case , it look like the rocket/plane was traveling head on towards the camera , was hit on the rear tumbled and fell virtually on the same path as it was flying.... In that case that footage is important if its on a mobile phone it will have x y z GPS coordinates and you could triangle ate the path of the flight and the path of the projectile and roughly pinpoint were it was fired from... But maybe I am trying to be to csi about it .... But at least we all seeing the same thing . Something do seem to dissipate it may be a missile trail or smoke from the down plane who knows , if the footage was more clear .....
 
I think it's smoke from the plane.

A plane flying at 10km usually doesn't land close to where a rocket is fired.
If it was, in this case, a surface to air missile.
 

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