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Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by GTPNewsWire, Aug 23, 2019.
This either means nothing or it means everything.
Michelin have the raw data for and from all the pro simulators out there so it might not be as difficult as you think. The tyres have to have uniform performance to properly assess any car changes and they're likely running the same or very similar x86 architecture.
You're likely right about a brand new tyre model not coming in October but Michelin could point PD in the right direction with a tweak here and there.
I was just thinking the same thing. The partnership has 2 aspects - a brand presence in the game, and a technical partnership to improve the physics. The article ends with "The Michelin partnership will start to appear in GT Sport with game updates in October.", and I think you are most likely right, what will arrive in October will probably just be the branding side.
However, I wouldn't totally rule out that physics improvements could happen reasonably quickly. The game will already determine tyre grip as a function of various parameters, and the coding work to change it to a different function specified by Michelin could be quite straightforward. But some changes might have to wait till PS5, e.g. suppose grip is currently linearly related to a parameter, and Michelin say that a quartic curve is a more appropriate fit, the PS4 simply might not have the spare CPU cycles to calculate that more complex function. There are ways around this, e.g. a pre-computed lookup table, so we'll have to wait and see.
Hopefully if a new tyre model arrives, it will come with full tyre temps, along with the more realistic physics.
I was thinking the same thing, why I think this may happen is they sad this October it will be Integrated to the game, it was in Yesterday Press conference let pry to the gt gods, u never know, we ask for cars and we got not all but some, we asked for tracks and we got them (lol spa) and we ask for rain and it’s coming so let keep the fingers Cross and if I am not Mistaken gt6 had it so I do see it coming back to Gt sport
iracings dave kaemmer has been trying to perfect simulated tyre physics for years with data from real world tyres. It’s no easy task.
Likelihood is that we will see a bit more hud data, maybe some temps but I doubt we will see any massive changes to the actual physics or the model that PD use.
More of a mutually beneficial marketing partnership imo.
Forza Motorsport 4 had the same kind of partnership with Pirelli and it vastly improved the tire physics. I don’t see this partnership being any different.
Really ? I never heard of that partnership.
Tbf it was a long time ago.
My memory is kind of vague but I remember some things about it.
The tires were separated in 3 parts. Inner, middle and outer. Each part had it’s own temp and you had to set the car up accordingly to spread the heat as evenly as possible. IIRC it also felt like they heated up more progressively rather than being pretty much on/off like GTS tire physics, they actually took a couple laps to heat up to optimum temps. They also added sidewall flex, which was pretty innovative for it’s time.
The overall feel of the game got a lot better compared to FM3. GT still hasn’t caught up to this game in terms of tire physics imo,
Very intresting thanks for the info.
If they manage to make realistic the tire behaviour, they will have make the driving experience fantastic as the only flaw will be the lack of feel from the G forces on our body. They have a great physics engine since GT6 but the tire physics was somewhat simplistic until now. Let's see what the future brings for the franchise.
For those who need more detailed information regarding the partnership you can go to the website below and download the PDF files for both press release and FAQ :
Yep, and check out bullet point 6. This is a 3 year venture that has just started, so I’m not sure why some are expecting a new tire physics model to come in October. Hopefully this means Gran Turismo will eventually upgrade from its empirical tire model to the one Michelin has already developed for its simulators (thermomechanical physically based, which rFactor2 also uses).
Very enticing news for all the GTS players. As someone who is an avid PC2 player on the One X, I'll be very curious to see how this partnership pans out in terms of in-game tire physics and how it will eventually compare to what SMS has achieved.
Given that this is a 3 year project, I might budge on getting a PS5 w/ GTS down the line if the improvements turn out to be significant.
More info on the tyres would be very welcome. I'm colour blind and can't see the outline of the tyre icon to see if they're cooked or cold. The linear reddening of the tyres in 5 and 6 was good enough for me but I'd love a numeric value to help me care for them better.
I honestly think we're going to get a tweaked tyre model in GTS with a much more sophisticated model for GT7. Plenty of CPU cycles with the next console to work on all the tyre characteristics and PD have a great track record of maximising the available hardware's potential and there's serious potential with the PS5
This might be a lot shallower than it sounded but Michelin said they're openly sharing what they've developed with PD so they can get feedback from gamer's. That sounds like a symbiotic partnership to me as well as good marketing all round.
The never ending updates to GTS give me a hunch that GTS is the beta test for every asset and facet of GT7 that the PS4 can handle too. I'd include a revised tyre model in one of those updates as they've never been shy with major physics changes in them. That last update amazed me how much it changed the game so late in its life so it really wouldn't surprise me. Maybe a simplified version of GT7's but it will be based on science rather than guesswork...
Ever the optimist.
Some fun facts about Michelin.
They also make tires for this thing,
They made cars when they owned shares in Citroen. Up to 1975.
Also largely credited in the development of the 2CV.
Did you know the Michelin Man aka Bibendum is white because tires used to be white?
And Bibendum used to look like this. Child in the back looks rightly scared.
And I always thought Michelin Stars were stars. But they look more like flowers.
3 year partnership? Would be weird for them to keep getting data post a new GT release and then stop it. I think the 3 year window is hinting at the new physics engine which should be for GT7.
Following that thought, GT7 should arrive within three years: either in the 1st or 2nd year of the PS5.
if michelin shares the data with pd there is no need for them to be there past 3 years . pd will have what they need to carry on . but we shall see
Surely you know PD well enough now not to be that optimistic about logic and reason? I bet we don't get a new physics engine for GT7 but a modified GTS one.
As per the races today, I suspect tyre branding first.
By the way, not sure if anyone here in this thread has mentioned it already, but Michelin has a lot of connections with the Road America race track. I wonder if that could be the "all new real world track" that's coming to the franchise?? Spa is coming also, but that's not "all new", as it was seen in GT5!
Let's see what happens!!
Haha there's more than just Spa coming mate!! Well, I hope there is!
Could well be; we know they had Spa finished (or almost) quite a while ago!
On this Michelin thing, who knows what it'll bring. GT has always sat firmly in the simcade zone to be broadly accessible - in the end it might only amount to quite subtle changes, as I'm assuming they are using some kind of brush model already. If not then Keanu has the reaction for that as well!
I just want to drift again. Make drifting fun again please. Given the three years contract, we will probably see this tech on GT7. Something else: cars suspensions are too stiff in GTSport, there is no body roll. I love driving old muscle cars in Forza but in GTSport they are simply boring. I'm not asking for 100%, just more fun. IMO Gran Turismo 3 handling is still the best.
Very cool strategic partnership! Excited what this will bring to GT:S and GT7.
I hope there are tire physics changes by Michelin in October.
It would take a lot more than billboards and a decal in the tuning menu to convince me this isn't just another marketing stunt. Remember the Yokohama partnership in GT6? Now 6 years later we still don't have something as basic as tyre pressure adjustments and I/M/O temps. Remember also the KW suspension partnership in GT6? Yup, even in GTS ride height is still backwards. PD has a long long history of teaming up with big names and then squandering their licensing potential. See GT5's NASCAR/WRC/Top Gear licenses, the non existent Pikes Peak, and paucity of Lewis Hamilton content in GTS apart from his car and one track guide.
Looking at other sims, at the very least PD needs the following to even get their tyre model up to scratch:
- Tyre pressure adjustment
- I/M/O temps
- Brake temps affecting tyre temps
- Tyre temps that heat and cool down progressively instead of 1 second on/off
- Flatspots & punctures
- Better tyre flex modelling
- Better longitudinal grip
- Non generic compounds
- Radial vs bias ply simulation (for older cars)
- 5 point contact model (https://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/...oducing-the-5-point-tyre-model-for-acc.59307/)
Tyres are complex and even the best PC sims will likely never get them perfect, but anything is better than PD's 20 year old "Driving on Ice" simulator.
Don't think I've seen someone refer to the physics as on ice before. GT feels like rails in comparison to Assetto.