Microtransactions Have Arrived in Gran Turismo Sport

92
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
I'm not sure there is any negative to this, the game hasn't changed and you can just turn off microtransactions and carry on as normal. If you don't want microtransactions then this is the thing to do.

I will leave it on but probably won't use it much, depends on how much I value my time Vs grinding for credits.
 
189
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
I’ll have to find it, but the infamous Rockstar is a good example. V’s micro transactions are so popular, it’s been reported they will likely carry it over into RDR2 in some form.
As a huge fan of both this franchise and those 2 of R* mentioned there, it pains me to see what became of the greed shown once these options prove just so profitable.

All good now. But so were shark cards. But there was a clear point where the profits from the cards just dominated R*/Take Two's implementation of things.

For those that know it, the Gunrunning update added 'research' where it took many hours to clear the 50+ items added this way, or a 225k pay to skip option. And of the 50+ items, 10 or so are game altering/balancing weapon upgrades. Explosive snipers and rockets for weaponised vehicles. All mixed in with cosmetic liveries.

The disgust in that was strong, lol.
 
1,441
vspectra06
vspectra06
Absolutely. I think that would have gone over a little better than the current situation, microtransactions aside.

Also, fixed. :P

I think there would definitely be less uproar if there was no MTX as Kaz did go back on his initial word, but the way we have it now is that both returning cars and new cars are free with this MTX implementation which doesn't affect how the game is played. If they went with paid new-to-series DLC instead of MTX, we'd still be waiting the same amount of time for them to release these older and newer cars.
 
938
Switzerland
Zürich
I haven't gone through all 13 pages of this thread so please forgive me if I repeat something.

Quite frankly this is the most benign implementation of micro transactions that I've seen. There is nothing purchasable that couldn't be earned in the game relatively quickly, and you can turn the MTX option off.

Compare that to say the PC series, where you either have to buy an additional season pass or the DLCs separately. Or Assetto Corsa where the same applies, but they screwed over buyers of the season pass with 2 DLCs that were not included with that pass - at least on the PS4

Add to the above in that those games you have no other option to acquire the cars (or tracks) other than to hand over your money. This is not the case with GTS.

Personally I'm OK with DLC and MTX when done right, meaning when you get the game and it's totally 100% playable to the finish. After that it's then your choice if you wish to expand on that. What I'm not OK with is DLC that's pretty much obligatory for the game to be completed.

Now, new sales of GTS have obviously tanked - It's been 9 months or so since the release and it's it's been on sale seemingly permanently for the last 3 months. Basically the only buyers of GTS are those looking for a bargain or those coming late to the PS4 world, and that's not really making money for PD.

So if you want more tracks and you want more cars then this is helping to pay for the people that create that content. Remember coders, 3D artists, musicians, game designers ,etc all have bills and rent/mortgages to pay, you know, exactly like us.

So if this MTX helps with more content coming through then it's a win for all of us, including those dead set against this new development.
 
[
I haven't gone through all 13 pages of this thread so please forgive me if I repeat something.

Quite frankly this is the most benign implementation of micro transactions that I've seen. There is nothing purchasable that couldn't be earned in the game relatively quickly, and you can turn the MTX option off.

Compare that to say the PC series, where you either have to buy an additional season pass or the DLCs separately. Or Assetto Corsa where the same applies, but they screwed over buyers of the season pass with 2 DLCs that were not included with that pass - at least on the PS4
.
In the case of A.C.. They didn't screw anyone over. The season pass was made before the plans for those other two DLC's were drawn up. If they had stated the season pass covered all future DLC then that would have been the case. They also gave Laguna for free which was originally planned to be paid DLC.
 
209
United States
Earth
BadFlounder
BadFlounder
:lol: So if someone with no practice in the game other that WATCHING TWO VIDEOS can buy a Gr3 car and go to sport mode without driving anything in the game at all. That will be fun for people's safety ratings. :lol: :lol: :lol:

The amount of bending the concept of reality by defenders of the faith in this thread is hilarious.

Fact. Kaz said no to MT. Fact. MT is now in the game.

No amount of "you don't have to use them if you don't want to" can change that.

In addition to that how can anyone know with any certainty that the game loop wasn't designed with the addition of MT at a later date?

Defenders of the faith? :lol: At least in my case, one quick look through my post history will show you I am no Polyphony defender. Sure, I get that Kaz said one thing and eventually did another. Polyphony do deserve criticism for that, but the lack of context you and many others display regarding this topic is a bit ridiculous. I might actually agree with you if this system were pay-to-win, but obviously it isn't.
 
I haven't gone through all 13 pages of this thread so please forgive me if I repeat something.

Quite frankly this is the most benign implementation of micro transactions that I've seen. There is nothing purchasable that couldn't be earned in the game relatively quickly, and you can turn the MTX option off.

Compare that to say the PC series, where you either have to buy an additional season pass or the DLCs separately. Or Assetto Corsa where the same applies, but they screwed over buyers of the season pass with 2 DLCs that were not included with that pass - at least on the PS4

Add to the above in that those games you have no other option to acquire the cars (or tracks) other than to hand over your money. This is not the case with GTS.

Personally I'm OK with DLC and MTX when done right, meaning when you get the game and it's totally 100% playable to the finish. After that it's then your choice if you wish to expand on that. What I'm not OK with is DLC that's pretty much obligatory for the game to be completed.

Now, new sales of GTS have obviously tanked - It's been 9 months or so since the release and it's it's been on sale seemingly permanently for the last 3 months. Basically the only buyers of GTS are those looking for a bargain or those coming late to the PS4 world, and that's not really making money for PD.

So if you want more tracks and you want more cars then this is helping to pay for the people that create that content. Remember coders, 3D artists, musicians, game designers ,etc all have bills and rent/mortgages to pay, you know, exactly like us.

So if this MTX helps with more content coming through then it's a win for all of us, including those dead set against this new development.
Would your opinion change if the rare $15 million+ cars become available in the PSN shop?
 
82
Australia
Australia
S1CKO666
Nothing wrong with Microtransactions in this game. Because you cant really pay to win online, there are no exclusive cars, the expensive cars you still have to play and earn credits for and considering all DLC is free, its a good way to do business considering the game will live or die according to its player count. Give away the game cheap, offer free DLC, offer optional microtransactions that have no effect on the games content at all. Good work Sony.

This options is great for those that want to try out a GT3 car here and there or something
 

The_American

Premium
362
United States
United States
(approaches podium)

For those of you that don't know me, I was a Producer for Project CARS 2. No longer with the company however so the thoughts below are mine alone, I do not represent SMS. I'm just a fellow sim racer that has spent some time inside the business.

SIMPLY: Is it PRO-consumer or ANTI-consumer? That's the only lens one needs to view this move.

The Project CARS player community gave the strong and clear opinion starting in 2011 to SMS that the Project CARS series should not entertain grinding, unlocks, mtx shenanigans. I paid $60 now give me my content and get the hell out of my way. Once the game is installed I should be able to pick any car and race it on any track I want IMMEDIATELY, no more challenges (economic or otherwise).

In this respect SMS is/was one of the most pro-consumer sim-racing studios. Their major error was releasing months before the game was ready, somewhat anti-consumer. But in respect to the content access, instantaneous 100% pro-consumer and player-friendly, the ONLY way it should ever be.

Comically or sadly, this confused some players that had over the years of abuse from EA become used to grinding and unlocks. We literally had people on our forums writing that they were bored because they had nothing to "earn", no vehicles/tracks to unlock. They had become accustomed to it, a bit of Stockholm Syndrome. Unlocking and grinding/earning became the actual game for this group. NO! IT'S THE RACING, STUPID. Reduce your laptimes, defeat the competition....racing remember?

Step 1. Build game around grinding/unlocks
Step 2. Offer paid solution so some players can pay to skip Step 1
Step 3. Laugh to the bank

Oh but it doesn't affect me...
Oh but you can just turn it off...
Oh but it's just for <insert criteria> cars...
Oh but it's just a few bucks...
Oh but ...

You have become accustomed to being mistreated. You are actually defending your mistreatment and inviting further anti-consumer behavior! SMH.

"But, but SONY needs money too, they have developers and artists to pay." The economics you say? Have you checked the 1Y stock chart? Looks healthy to me (see pic below). They're fine economically, they didn't "need" to do this at all.

In-game transactions have NO PLACE in a full-priced game. Players were correct in holding EA accountable last year, the "Wilson Lootbox"....damn it to hell. I won't support it/them ever. (And players are correct in holding SMS accountable to fully fix pc2.)

Digital Extremes (WarFrame), CDProjektRed (Witcher3/Cyberpunk2077). There are successful studios operating in very pro-consumer player-friendly ways. The model exists. We should support them and fight this anti-consumer nonsense every time it rears its ugly head. Hold the studios & greedy Publishers accountable.

The guys voicing opposition to this latest move by Kaz/PD...keep up the fight brothers! History will prove you correct. Hold them accountable, even when you feel alone in the cause.

I'm fine with post-launch paid DLC. It's extra optional content beyond what my initial $60 paid for and the company really does need to pay those artists and coders. Fair deal. However I will never support the "unholy trinity" of grinding/unlocks/mtx. It's a plague, infection, drives men mad. We need to banish it from our full-priced sim games.

Thanks for reading.
 

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VBR

Kill Wokey
Premium
7,505
England
London
The guys voicing opposition to this latest move by Kaz/PD...keep up the fight brothers! History will prove you correct. Hold them accountable, even when you feel alone in the cause.

I'm against Microtransactions generally speaking, but agree with you when it comes to stuff that wasn't genuinely ready at launch. However, reading between the lines I think it's more likely that this happened because of pressure from Sony, & is less likely to be a "Kaz/PD" decision. GT5 was the first game to have microtransactions, & it was for stuff that wasn't ready at launch. GT6 had no microtransactions for content, but did have optionable in-game credits available to purchase. Kaz said that GT sport wouldn't have microtransactions, & then months later they appeared. All of this leads me to presume that it's probably Sony's idea rather than Kaz's or PD's idea. I'm not a GT fanboy, nor a PD apologist, I'm just someone who feels that assuming who's at fault when we don't really know where the idea came from isn't perhaps a good thing.
 

MatskiMonk

Inebriated member
Premium
13,333
United Kingdom
Not so Great Britain
(approaches podium)

For those of you that don't know me, I was a Producer for Project CARS 2. No longer with the company however so the thoughts below are mine alone, I do not represent SMS. I'm just a fellow sim racer that has spent some time inside the business.

SIMPLY: Is it PRO-consumer or ANTI-consumer? That's the only lens one needs to view this move.

The Project CARS player community gave the strong and clear opinion starting in 2011 to SMS that the Project CARS series should not entertain grinding, unlocks, mtx shenanigans. I paid $60 now give me my content and get the hell out of my way. Once the game is installed I should be able to pick any car and race it on any track I want IMMEDIATELY, no more challenges (economic or otherwise).

In this respect SMS is/was one of the most pro-consumer sim-racing studios. Their major error was releasing months before the game was ready, somewhat anti-consumer. But in respect to the content access, instantaneous 100% pro-consumer and player-friendly, the ONLY way it should ever be.

Comically or sadly, this confused some players that had over the years of abuse from EA become used to grinding and unlocks. We literally had people on our forums writing that they were bored because they had nothing to "earn", no vehicles/tracks to unlock. They had become accustomed to it, a bit of Stockholm Syndrome. Unlocking and grinding/earning became the actual game for this group. NO! IT'S THE RACING, STUPID. Reduce your laptimes, defeat the competition....racing remember?

Step 1. Build game around grinding/unlocks
Step 2. Offer paid solution so some players can pay to skip Step 1
Step 3. Laugh to the bank

Oh but it doesn't affect me...
Oh but you can just turn it off...
Oh but it's just for <insert criteria> cars...
Oh but it's just a few bucks...
Oh but ...

You have become accustomed to being mistreated. You are actually defending your mistreatment and inviting further anti-consumer behavior! SMH.

Whatever SMS wanted to do with PCARS was down to them and those games. You're calling people who know what they want from a different franchise, from a different developer, "STUPID", and effectively suggesting that they're brainwashed.... doesn't sound very pro-consumer to me, it sounds more like you're pro-"slagging off potential consumers for not holding the same opinions as you".

:rolleyes:
 
1,441
vspectra06
vspectra06
(approaches podium)

For those of you that don't know me, I was a Producer for Project CARS 2. No longer with the company however so the thoughts below are mine alone, I do not represent SMS. I'm just a fellow sim racer that has spent some time inside the business.

SIMPLY: Is it PRO-consumer or ANTI-consumer? That's the only lens one needs to view this move.

The Project CARS player community gave the strong and clear opinion starting in 2011 to SMS that the Project CARS series should not entertain grinding, unlocks, mtx shenanigans. I paid $60 now give me my content and get the hell out of my way. Once the game is installed I should be able to pick any car and race it on any track I want IMMEDIATELY, no more challenges (economic or otherwise).

In this respect SMS is/was one of the most pro-consumer sim-racing studios. Their major error was releasing months before the game was ready, somewhat anti-consumer. But in respect to the content access, instantaneous 100% pro-consumer and player-friendly, the ONLY way it should ever be.

Comically or sadly, this confused some players that had over the years of abuse from EA become used to grinding and unlocks. We literally had people on our forums writing that they were bored because they had nothing to "earn", no vehicles/tracks to unlock. They had become accustomed to it, a bit of Stockholm Syndrome. Unlocking and grinding/earning became the actual game for this group. NO! IT'S THE RACING, STUPID. Reduce your laptimes, defeat the competition....racing remember?

Step 1. Build game around grinding/unlocks
Step 2. Offer paid solution so some players can pay to skip Step 1
Step 3. Laugh to the bank

Oh but it doesn't affect me...
Oh but you can just turn it off...
Oh but it's just for <insert criteria> cars...
Oh but it's just a few bucks...
Oh but ...

You have become accustomed to being mistreated. You are actually defending your mistreatment and inviting further anti-consumer behavior! SMH.

"But, but SONY needs money too, they have developers and artists to pay." The economics you say? Have you checked the 1Y stock chart? Looks healthy to me (see pic below). They're fine economically, they didn't "need" to do this at all.

In-game transactions have NO PLACE in a full-priced game. Players were correct in holding EA accountable last year, the "Wilson Lootbox"....damn it to hell. I won't support it/them ever. (And players are correct in holding SMS accountable to fully fix pc2.)

Digital Extremes (WarFrame), CDProjektRed (Witcher3/Cyberpunk2077). There are successful studios operating in very pro-consumer player-friendly ways. The model exists. We should support them and fight this anti-consumer nonsense every time it rears its ugly head. Hold the studios & greedy Publishers accountable.

The guys voicing opposition to this latest move by Kaz/PD...keep up the fight brothers! History will prove you correct. Hold them accountable, even when you feel alone in the cause.

I'm fine with post-launch paid DLC. It's extra optional content beyond what my initial $60 paid for and the company really does need to pay those artists and coders. Fair deal. However I will never support the "unholy trinity" of grinding/unlocks/mtx. It's a plague, infection, drives men mad. We need to banish it from our full-priced sim games.

Thanks for reading.

Here's the thing though, I don't think you've played the PS1/PS2 GT games if you don't realize it literally created the CAR-RPG collectathon game design 20 years ago which required grinding to get all cars and actually drew in fans with that design. Some people like progression in their games instead of having everything unlocked from the start. GTS isn't designed around microtransactions, it's actually easier to obtain most of the cars in this game compared to the old Gran Turismos where microtransactions never even existed. You literally get a free prize car every day in GTS just for driving around a length of 1.5 Nurburgring laps. The only cars in the game that most agree on being too excessive in price are the 20 million credit cars, in which case you can't even buy those with microtransactions.

Honest question, I'm curious did you complain about GTS's (or any old GT) game progression design and how it's anti-consumer before MTX was even introduced in this update? The game economy and design hasn't changed since the game launched.
 
Last edited:

Famine

GTPEDIA Author
Administrator
72,366
United Kingdom
Rule 12
GTP_Famine
VBR
GT6 had no microtransactions for content, but did have optionable in-game credits available to purchase.
And they were the most hilariously pointless microtransactions I've ever seen. It was almost as if Yamauchi was told he had to sell credits for the game so he went right ahead and boosted the game's credit payouts by up to 200% (plus a PP offset boost for the Seasonals), entirely on purpose to make them completely unnecessary for anyone who logged in regularly.


Like you, that makes me wonder if this is some edict from above.

If you do GT Sport's "campaign" only, you have enough cash to buy just under half of the cars in the game. You'll also be awarded with another 43 cars, give or take - sometimes Circuit Experience will throw an N200 at you because it hates you - including the most expensive N-class road car in the game at launch (and a car not included in this purchase scheme) and most of the race cars across Gr.4 (350k), Gr.3/Gr.B (450k) and Gr.1 (1m) that you'll ever need. And the kart if you watch the Etiquette videos.

I haven't sat down and done the math, but to me it looks like only 8 of the cars you can buy, plus the 9 MiEx cars aren't in the scheme - 17 of 238. The two specific prize cars and the dirty 2011 R18 might not be either, making 20 of 238. We're down to 218 cars.

One of the cars you're awarded isn't either (and two are specific prize cars we've already accounted for), so of the 43 cars you win in campaign, 40 are potential MT targets. We're now down to 178 cars. If you spend, say, a week doing it, you get a car a day there too. These could be anything, so we'll ignore them completely - it might reduce the number, it might not. With the money you get from doing it you can buy every car that costs less than 300,000cr, plus four of the five that cost 300,000cr. We're now down to 101 cars. Sign a manufacturer contract and you get two more - a Gr.4 and a Gr.3 (although I don't know what happens for manufacturers that have multiple options).

The 99 cars left essentially cover every remaining Gr.4, Gr.3, Gr.2, Gr.1, Gr.X and Gr.B car in the game from those that you don't already have - plus the F40, Cobra, Veyron, LaFerrari, FT-1, McLaren F1, Aventador, Countach and Enzo. The race cars are BOPped, so in theory any one of them is much the same as any other (although they aren't). If you want even the most expensive of the road cars, you can spend an hour at Blue Moon Bay in a KTM, or two somewhere more interesting.


From a money-making perspective, offering only cars is weird - GT Sport does tend to shower you with more cars than you can reasonably cope with. From a "fine, we'll put them in, but they'll be useless to any regular player" perspective, it makes a bit more sense.

But I do concur that AAA titles shouldn't have them in at all. Not that this stopped GTAV making more money from MTs than sales.
 
10,923
United Kingdom
West Yorkshire
Tired_Tyres
I'm really not trying to pick a fight, sincerely.
I have to ask, what crap are you getting from PD?
All content is still free, nothing has changed in that regard... the game has always been about investing time to earn credits... same old same old continues.
There is now an "option" to use real $ to purchase content.
If you liked the game the way it was, carry on.
If you don't have time to invest, you now have the option to invest $ to gain access to content previously available to those with time.

Now if they would just make the $15-20M cars available... as, even i have time to earn $2M.
So, I will concede the current $ cap is most unusual... if not borderline useless.
It is a game industry wide issue.

Dev 1 makes a game with a nice game loop, play earn reward move on to the next challenge.

Dev 2 looks at free to play mobile games and makes a grindy as hell game loop with a way to speed it up. By reaching for your wallet.

We are left with grind fest games because of that. It is entirely caused by the people willing to reach for the wallet.
 
46
Mexico
Mexico
FantasticoMartin
(approaches podium)

For those of you that don't know me, I was a Producer for Project CARS 2. No longer with the company however so the thoughts below are mine alone, I do not represent SMS. I'm just a fellow sim racer that has spent some time inside the business.

SIMPLY: Is it PRO-consumer or ANTI-consumer? That's the only lens one needs to view this move.

The Project CARS player community gave the strong and clear opinion starting in 2011 to SMS that the Project CARS series should not entertain grinding, unlocks, mtx shenanigans. I paid $60 now give me my content and get the hell out of my way. Once the game is installed I should be able to pick any car and race it on any track I want IMMEDIATELY, no more challenges (economic or otherwise).

In this respect SMS is/was one of the most pro-consumer sim-racing studios. Their major error was releasing months before the game was ready, somewhat anti-consumer. But in respect to the content access, instantaneous 100% pro-consumer and player-friendly, the ONLY way it should ever be.

Comically or sadly, this confused some players that had over the years of abuse from EA become used to grinding and unlocks. We literally had people on our forums writing that they were bored because they had nothing to "earn", no vehicles/tracks to unlock. They had become accustomed to it, a bit of Stockholm Syndrome. Unlocking and grinding/earning became the actual game for this group. NO! IT'S THE RACING, STUPID. Reduce your laptimes, defeat the competition....racing remember?

Step 1. Build game around grinding/unlocks
Step 2. Offer paid solution so some players can pay to skip Step 1
Step 3. Laugh to the bank

Oh but it doesn't affect me...
Oh but you can just turn it off...
Oh but it's just for <insert criteria> cars...
Oh but it's just a few bucks...
Oh but ...

You have become accustomed to being mistreated. You are actually defending your mistreatment and inviting further anti-consumer behavior! SMH.

"But, but SONY needs money too, they have developers and artists to pay." The economics you say? Have you checked the 1Y stock chart? Looks healthy to me (see pic below). They're fine economically, they didn't "need" to do this at all.

In-game transactions have NO PLACE in a full-priced game. Players were correct in holding EA accountable last year, the "Wilson Lootbox"....damn it to hell. I won't support it/them ever. (And players are correct in holding SMS accountable to fully fix pc2.)

Digital Extremes (WarFrame), CDProjektRed (Witcher3/Cyberpunk2077). There are successful studios operating in very pro-consumer player-friendly ways. The model exists. We should support them and fight this anti-consumer nonsense every time it rears its ugly head. Hold the studios & greedy Publishers accountable.

The guys voicing opposition to this latest move by Kaz/PD...keep up the fight brothers! History will prove you correct. Hold them accountable, even when you feel alone in the cause.

I'm fine with post-launch paid DLC. It's extra optional content beyond what my initial $60 paid for and the company really does need to pay those artists and coders. Fair deal. However I will never support the "unholy trinity" of grinding/unlocks/mtx. It's a plague, infection, drives men mad. We need to banish it from our full-priced sim games.

Thanks for reading.

No. You're wrong with allmost everything (except PC2 been released incomplete)

Grinding.
My favourite thing in GT franchise is earning Cr. and then go buy a car, collecting them, etc.

Unlocks.
I like the feeling of accomplishment, and also something to look forward to. like owning the 20mil Cr. cars some day.

MTX
Now I don't have enough free time to play as much as I used to, so I like having the OPTION to pay with real money which the developer can use to make more content, while I still get the feeling of owning, collecting, etc.

Just because you think a certain way doesn't meen everyone else is wrong.

For me its far much worse when DLC locks content from all the players that didn't bought it breaking the player base. It's even worse also because you're forcing consumers to pay more real money to keep playing, in GTS you can access EVERYTHING in the game without paying a sinlge extra dime. Traditional DLC like PC1 & PC2 had, it's the least friendly and worse kind of additional monetizing way for consumers and players.

This is all my personal opinion, it's diferent than yours and I'm sure there are many others, but from my point of view you don't understand consumers and gamers, at least those like me.
 

Downhill Dino

Premium
11,649
United States
Maryland
DownhillDinosaur
Digital Extremes (WarFrame)

I'm sorry what? The game that you can spend hours trying to get a drop and never do? You know, the one where you have to grind hours to get a drop for a consumable key to unlock a level so you can grind that one for a chance to get a blueprint of which you still need 4 different ones to assemble? That one?
 

FoRiZon

(Banned)
8,645
Singapore
Singapore
To be honest, I do see some red signs as more I play in form of Daily Rewards.

Far more often nowadays that the game teases you with 3 reasonably expensive cars and 1 dirt cheap car or Gr 4/3/B duplicates. Guess what you will get.

Heres the recent examples I've encountered:

1. (Tomahawk GTS-R, Tomahawk GT1, F40, Toyota S-FR)
2. (Audi R18 2016, Miura, Subaru VIZIV, Ford Focus)
3. (Miura, Ferrari Enzo, Toyota TS040, Hyundai Genesis GT3) Note: I have literally 6 Genesis GT3 as a gift for today, no joke.

Very rarely they'll not giving the cheapest cars, if ever.
 
1,104
gregc22
No. You're wrong with allmost everything (except PC2 been released incomplete)

Grinding.
My favourite thing in GT franchise is earning Cr. and then go buy a car, collecting them, etc.

Unlocks.
I like the feeling of accomplishment, and also something to look forward to. like owning the 20mil Cr. cars some day.

MTX
Now I don't have enough free time to play as much as I used to, so I like having the OPTION to pay with real money which the developer can use to make more content, while I still get the feeling of owning, collecting, etc.

Just because you think a certain way doesn't meen everyone else is wrong.

For me its far much worse when DLC locks content from all the players that didn't bought it breaking the player base. It's even worse also because you're forcing consumers to pay more real money to keep playing, in GTS you can access EVERYTHING in the game without paying a sinlge extra dime. Traditional DLC like PC1 & PC2 had, it's the least friendly and worse kind of additional monetizing way for consumers and players.

This is all my personal opinion, it's diferent than yours and I'm sure there are many others, but from my point of view you don't understand consumers and gamers, at least those like me.

These are all personal opinions (FWIW, I disagree with you almost totally, I hate the grind, however that's kind of beside the point) - however the decision to not have the grind in pCARS wasn't some arbitrary choice made by @The_American or anyone else at SMS, it was the result of the WMD community (which is/was a fairly large group of players, and therefore indeed consumers) being very vocal about the issue.

I wasn't in WMD myself for the first game, but I was for the second and saw it for myself - at one point some content was going to go behind what I would call a grindwall, and once again WMD pushed back hard against the idea (not everyone, there were a few who shared your view, but a large majority).

The outcome in the end was to have all content available outside career mode, but have some stuff locked behind certain events within the career itself - which I thought was a reasonable compromise.
 

VBR

Kill Wokey
Premium
7,505
England
London
And they were the most hilariously pointless microtransactions I've ever seen. It was almost as if Yamauchi was told he had to sell credits for the game so he went right ahead and boosted the game's credit payouts by up to 200% (plus a PP offset boost for the Seasonals), entirely on purpose to make them completely unnecessary for anyone who logged in regularly.more interesting.


Yeah! And, the uncanny timing of the 20 million credit glitch at the beginning of the game's life cycle got me to speculating whether it was a "deliberate mistake" by PD.

Rebel Kaz.jpg

That said, I still prefer the model in Project CARS & Assetto Corsa of all cars available at the start, as I wanna spend my leisure time racing not grinding/unlocking.
 
103
United Kingdom
West Yorkshire
(approaches podium)

Comically or sadly, this confused some players that had over the years of abuse from EA become used to grinding and unlocks. We literally had people on our forums writing that they were bored because they had nothing to "earn", no vehicles/tracks to unlock. They had become accustomed to it....

You have become accustomed to being mistreated. You are actually defending your mistreatment and inviting further anti-consumer behavior! SMH.

I'm fine with post-launch paid DLC. It's extra optional content beyond what my initial $60 paid for and the company really does need to pay those artists and coders. Fair deal. However I will never support the "unholy trinity" of grinding/unlocks/mtx. It's a plague, infection, drives men mad. We need to banish it from our full-priced sim games.

Thanks for reading.

Very deep and I think I found myself in your post. I think I do like progress and feeling of reward, But also grinding is not the way I like it. I like to play PC/PC2 but the reason I come back to Gran Turismo is the chance of getting a 20m car in daily reward After i was having fun on tokyo outer loop with mates in GR.4 Ferrari going bumper to bumper.

When I started this game I had the deluxe edition so I had some cars and then I was given cars left,right,center (doing the school and mission and circuit experience) before I learned how to properly play this game and I wouldn't say its grind up until you start to collect cars and realise there is massive gap to get to the Miura or the 20m cars.

Saying this I think once you finish all the SP misions you should have all the content at hand from game progress view right?

Thanks for your input, eyeopening!
 
1,090
United Kingdom
United Kingdom
A lot of people (looking at you The American) are missing the fact here that Gran Turismo hasn't be made a grind to introduce transactions. The game has been a grind since December 23, 1997. Long before micro-transactions even existed the franchise was a grind, PD have now introduced a way to alleviate slightly by allowing people to basically just buy cars that are usable in sports mode. What has been said is true of many AAA games, FIFA ultimate team, GTA etc but not really GTSport, let's look at the facts...

They haven't included the ultra-rare cars.

They haven't created a super class-killing car and made it pay only.

They have given people the option to spend a small amount of money to buy cars that are easily achievable if you play GTSport the same way you have played any previous Gran Turismo game.

How can anyone really complain about this? You can still unlock everything on this game playing it the same way as every previous GTSport, they haven't "taken inspiration from free to play games and applied to an AAA game"!

In all honesty, as others have surmised this probably comes from Sony, PD have implemented in the fairest way possible and it has zero effect on the franchise other than allowing people with less time to purchase a few cars. Something I am thankful for as I don't get to play often, so when I do I want to race online and not at Blue Moon Speedway!
 
1,439
United States
Washington
quakebass
The thing I find the most concerning about this move is that it may open the door for more toxic MT systems in the future. I've seen a shocking amount of people say something along the lines of "I would rather the purchase options be for the the most expensive/20 mil cars, not anything under 2 mil".

...NO, that's how you get games designed to be boring or time consuming in order to coax you towards paying money cut out an artificial middle-man. I fear PD or Sony will see those sort of comments and decide it's perfectly acceptable to for all intents and purposes lock cars behind a paywall due to insufficient progression systems. Absolutely no game should ever be developed in such a way where physical monetary transactions are encouraged in order to make all of a game's content accessible - if you want to charge more for extra post launch content, make it paid DLC, or find other aesthetic or optional opt-in purchasable items to garner revenue. In GT's case they could do extra avatar or suit items, special decal packs, some custom livery designs (either PD-originals or colabs with brands, tuning houses, or racing teams). I literally came up with all of this right now off the top of my head.

There's already several things that could be done to make the expensive cars more accessible through simple game design changes. Payouts in Sport Mode could be increased (which would be a double whammy, drawing more people into the highlight mode of the game), higher-tier league events could get higher payouts, a stronger progression system could be added in which more progression=higher payouts, and where near 100% completion credits come so easily just about anything is accessible, or some special challenges could be added that reward some/all of the expensive cars (something like that would bring back a mechanic to GT that hasn't been seen in 10+ years). Something like a "collector's series" set of mission events, where the eight events provide 2-2.5cr a piece, and golding all of them reward you with a random 15-20mil car (or even on per medal), and then your rewards let you purchase another of your choice.

So much could be done but corporate greed is mucking things up. I don't know if Sony are all to blame, or PD is getting their hands dirty here too.
 
1,169
Serbia
Serbia
Warlock__SRB
...don't affect me at all, I turned off it the first minute I turn on game. Normal person can get 400k in quarter of hour and that is by sony 1$. So why would I pay for something that I can enjoy playing?

And if I just recall how many hours I grinded GT1-GT6 for some of the cars (exlcluding GT6 VGT bug) I mean... it is really pointless to argue about this, on other hand, let them get money from those who don't value it (or don't have time to grind), I don't care at all...

And even if they give us payed DLC with cars and/or tracks I will consider buying it...
 
(approaches podium)

For those of you that don't know me, I was a Producer for Project CARS 2. No longer with the company however so the thoughts below are mine alone, I do not represent SMS. I'm just a fellow sim racer that has spent some time inside the business.

SIMPLY: Is it PRO-consumer or ANTI-consumer? That's the only lens one needs to view this move.

The Project CARS player community gave the strong and clear opinion starting in 2011 to SMS that the Project CARS series should not entertain grinding, unlocks, mtx shenanigans. I paid $60 now give me my content and get the hell out of my way. Once the game is installed I should be able to pick any car and race it on any track I want IMMEDIATELY, no more challenges (economic or otherwise).

In this respect SMS is/was one of the most pro-consumer sim-racing studios. Their major error was releasing months before the game was ready, somewhat anti-consumer. But in respect to the content access, instantaneous 100% pro-consumer and player-friendly, the ONLY way it should ever be.

Comically or sadly, this confused some players that had over the years of abuse from EA become used to grinding and unlocks. We literally had people on our forums writing that they were bored because they had nothing to "earn", no vehicles/tracks to unlock. They had become accustomed to it, a bit of Stockholm Syndrome. Unlocking and grinding/earning became the actual game for this group. NO! IT'S THE RACING, STUPID. Reduce your laptimes, defeat the competition....racing remember?

Step 1. Build game around grinding/unlocks
Step 2. Offer paid solution so some players can pay to skip Step 1
Step 3. Laugh to the bank

Oh but it doesn't affect me...
Oh but you can just turn it off...
Oh but it's just for <insert criteria> cars...
Oh but it's just a few bucks...
Oh but ...

You have become accustomed to being mistreated. You are actually defending your mistreatment and inviting further anti-consumer behavior! SMH.

"But, but SONY needs money too, they have developers and artists to pay." The economics you say? Have you checked the 1Y stock chart? Looks healthy to me (see pic below). They're fine economically, they didn't "need" to do this at all.

In-game transactions have NO PLACE in a full-priced game. Players were correct in holding EA accountable last year, the "Wilson Lootbox"....damn it to hell. I won't support it/them ever. (And players are correct in holding SMS accountable to fully fix pc2.)

Digital Extremes (WarFrame), CDProjektRed (Witcher3/Cyberpunk2077). There are successful studios operating in very pro-consumer player-friendly ways. The model exists. We should support them and fight this anti-consumer nonsense every time it rears its ugly head. Hold the studios & greedy Publishers accountable.

The guys voicing opposition to this latest move by Kaz/PD...keep up the fight brothers! History will prove you correct. Hold them accountable, even when you feel alone in the cause.

I'm fine with post-launch paid DLC. It's extra optional content beyond what my initial $60 paid for and the company really does need to pay those artists and coders. Fair deal. However I will never support the "unholy trinity" of grinding/unlocks/mtx. It's a plague, infection, drives men mad. We need to banish it from our full-priced sim games.

Thanks for reading.
Great post. Financial obligations inform game design, there’s no way around that. And when you introduce micro transactions, you’re on a slippery slope of trying to incentivize players to buy them by not respecting their time.

How many more articles and threads do we need about grinding for credits?
 
478
United Kingdom
London
Quite frankly this is the most benign implementation of micro transactions that I've seen. There is nothing purchasable that couldn't be earned in the game relatively quickly, and you can turn the MTX option off.

Compare that to say the PC series, where you either have to buy an additional season pass or the DLCs separately. Or Assetto Corsa where the same applies, but they screwed over buyers of the season pass with 2 DLCs that were not included with that pass - at least on the PS4

Add to the above in that those games you have no other option to acquire the cars (or tracks) other than to hand over your money. This is not the case with GTS.

This is the best synthesis of this whole thing in this thread so far. Thanks, man.

Why all this moaning? This is a real disappointment, I really expected a much more measured reaction from this community, this is a huge let down, not by PD but by you all moaners that I see in this thread. It is really disappointing. In moments like this you get a closer look to what a gaming community looks like, and this over reaction for a storm in a glass of water is a very ugly look. What a let down :guilty:

In a side note, I don't understand this culture of the "free stuff". I mean the game is just 15£ digital right now, is ridiculously cheap for all the content that you get. I tried to play other games but the money you have to expend, just to know whether you are going to like it or hate it, is ludicrous. Personally, I cant wait to start buying cars that I like but I don't have. Thanks to PD now I can focus my credits in the expensive ones and just buy the racing ones for the price of a chocolate bar.

Why do I want a 20 million ferrari? Because it looks ****ing awesome and I love classics. So I will save credits race after race to get it.

Why would I pay real money for a car? Because I ****ing want to, I'm 37 years old, I work my ass off every day and I can make my own decision, thank you very much.

That's the thing about freedom of choice, we can choose. Best update in the game so far, I'm really pleased.

PS: to the former PC2 producer, very interesting post, but this is Gran Turismo, mate. We all know what we get into. I have Project Cars and I've played no more than 10 minutes. It is absolutely boring because there is no sense of progression whatsoever, it has great features that I will never enjoy because the game doesn't appeal to me. Not saying is bad, just saying I'm not good enough at racing to really appreciate PC and PC2.
Meanwhile in Gran Turismo... driving is for everyone
 
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478
United Kingdom
London
just watch the reviews, test the cars in challenge or track experience and if you want it buy it with money. I had to expend credits in the new Ford Gt because the shopping thingy is not on until today :(. Otherwise I'd have expended that money very happily (and saved the credits for the Miura). You have to pay more than that for a pint of beer, c'mon.
 
56
United States
United States
VBR
Yeah! And, the uncanny timing of the 20 million credit glitch at the beginning of the game's life cycle got me to speculating whether it was a "deliberate mistake" by PD.

It was not a mistake by pd rather a glitch a glitch that I have used in gt6 to get 20 million credits instead of spending 50 bucks to get 7 million of credits each time. Too bad gt sport doesn’t have that glitch to sell the car for more than 20 million credits and keep buying cars.