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  • Thread starter Thread starter STALLIONO
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If Mugello, isn't in release. pick one Track.

  • Zolder

    Votes: 8 38.1%

  • Hockenheim GP

    Votes: 10 47.6%

  • Other

    Votes: 3 14.3%
  • Total voters
    21
  • Poll closed .
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Zeydius
sorry for the loss david

On the fuel front. You should not have longer race but there is a 2x option for tire wear that would push driver to go to the pits in a 1 hour race.
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Yeah but the problem with that is that all it does is double our pitstops. Anyone who wants to use a sprint tactic won't be able to as they will now be pitting 3/4 times in the race as opposed to just twice with normal tyre wear.

For example: Let's say with normal tyre wear on someone wants to run a no stop strategy and someone wants to run a 2 stop strategy. If pitting takes 30 seconds (completely random number, could be less or more time depending on track), the person doing the sprint strategy spends 60 seconds in the pits, while the person doing the normal strategy spends 0 seconds.

If you double tyre wear and as a result the amount of pits we do, the person doing the sprints now has to pit 4 times which equals 120 seconds. Person running an endurance strategy now has to stop maybe 1 time, so they spend 30 seconds in the pits.

Difference in time spent in the pits with normal wear is 60 seconds on normal, 90 seconds with double tyre wear, giving the endurance strategy a massive advantage.
 
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I think it should be up to the driver to pit or not. Just for fun today I was messing around on Road America in a gt4 car.
I had 14 ai cars and just hung at the back of the pack catching the draft. While doing this I averaged 2.97 liters of fuel
burnt per lap for 10 laps then for the next 10 laps I pushed the car. My lap times dropped from 2:24's to 2:21's but I used 3.3 liters of fuel per lap and burnt up my tires in the process.

Personally I want to see different strategies used.
 
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I tested at Road America at 12:00 and clear weather. I did an out lap and 5 hot laps with max fuel and 20L. I then averaged the two results to get a more accurate number for going from max fuel to empty.

Aston - 106L - 3.32
- 20L - 3.28
- 32 laps per tank

Audi - 120L - 3.88
- 20L - 3.86
- 31 laps per tank

BMW - 105L - 3.38
- 20L - 3.36
- 31 laps per tank

McLaren - 130L - 4.17
- 20L - 4.13
- 31 laps per tank

Mercedes - 120L - 3.94
- 20L - 3.92
- 30 laps per tank

RUF - 120L - 3.88
- 20L - 3.83
- 31 laps per tank

As you can see the FIA knows what there doing and none of the cars have a significant advantage.

@STALLIONO If you want to force a pit stop you need to run a race distance that forces a pit stop based on fuel. At Road America this is about 73 minutes or 35 laps. If you don't want to force a stop then you could run 28 laps or about 58 minutes.
 
ozwheels
I am working on the fuel situation, with some real data. It should be done by tonight hopefully.
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Interesting that there isn't much difference between fuel usage at full tank vs with 20 litres. I'd have thought it would have been more than 0.2L.

Looks like most cars are doing around 31 laps on a tank though, if we account for mistakes and differences between us we may not get that much though.
 
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I can get that mclaren to do 35 easy on road America, if you have no engine braking you get better fuel economy also lower downforce will mean better fual economy, putting your gears slightly higher and not redlining the gears will get you to 35 laps easy.
 
kie25
I can get that mclaren to do 35 easy on road America, if you have no engine braking you get better fuel economy also lower downforce will mean better fual economy, putting your gears slightly higher and not redlining the gears will get you to 35 laps easy.
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It might be just possible, keep in mind that technically you have to do 36 for the in lap as well.

Also you would be compromising your setup quite a lot there, you'd have to be running hard tyres to get them to the end (probably worth a couple of seconds a lap), and the techniques you use to save fuel make you slower than normal driving. Of course then you're asking yourself if doing a non stop race is worth those compromises, and that's where I feel a good race strategy can be just as important as a good setup and driver.

There will not be some massive advantage to not pitting, in fact with the hard tyres and higher fuel loads at the start of the race I'd predict that it would only be clear right at the end of the race if it had worked or not.

I still think we shouldn't make pitstop mandatory, all we're going to get is every team doing a one stop race. For example if the soft tyres can do 18 laps then I will be filling my tank up to 65 litres and stopping at the end of the 18th lap.
 
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I'm sorry but the soft tyres will easily do 40 Laps flat out without pitting, the tyre wear is non existent, I could drive flat in the mclaren on road for 20 laps then maybe short shift loosing under a second and get 35 Laps done, all the set up stuff would not be compromising as I run low downforce anyway and I have no engine braking on also so I wouldn't have to make any set up changes that I don't already have on my current set up, to get to 35 laps. 45 laps ensures every one has to pit and allows different tactics on if you start the race heavy or light on fual.
 
kie25
I'm sorry but the soft tyres will easily do 40 Laps flat out without pitting, the tyre wear is non existent, I could drive flat in the mclaren on road for 20 laps then maybe short shift loosing under a second and get 35 Laps done, all the set up stuff would not be compromising as I run low downforce anyway and I have no engine braking on also so I wouldn't have to make any set up changes that I don't already have on my current set up, to get to 35 laps. 45 laps ensures every one has to pit and allows different tactics on if you start the race heavy or light on fual.
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We shouldn't be making the races up to 30 minutes longer, 45 people signed up for 1 hour races so we should do 1 hour races, I can't make the soft tyres last 40 laps.

It should just be a case of pitting if you need to, most people will end up pitting. If you can get 40 laps out of one tank of fuel and one set of softs you deserve to win the race!
 
Can we not start the race with only enough fuel for half the race? You will not only be quicker because you're lighter, but forces you to pit for fuel as its mandatory.
 
Yes
xkubunt
We shouldn't be making the races up to 30 minutes longer, 45 people signed up for 1 hour races so we should do 1 hour races, I can't make the soft tyres last 40 laps.

It should just be a case of pitting if you need to, most people will end up pitting. If you can get 40 laps out of one tank of fuel and one set of softs you deserve to win the race!
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Different cars have different fual tanks though so mclaren has advantage, people are mistaking over heating there tyres for wearing them out, there is a big difference, if you keep your tyres temperatures under control soft tyres will do the distance, when your tyres are going red that has nothing to do with wear that is just overheating.
 
kie25
Yes

Different cars have different fual tanks though so mclaren has advantage, people are mistaking over heating there tyres for wearing them out, there is a big difference, if you keep your tyres temperatures under control soft tyres will do the distance, when your tyres are going red that has nothing to do with wear that is just overheating.
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As diesel just proved though in testing the mclaren uses about a litre a lap more than the Aston
 
Markeeez18
Can we not start the race with only enough fuel for half the race? You will not only be quicker because you're lighter, but forces you to pit for fuel as its mandatory.
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Can't enforce it though how do you know someone won't just fual all way and not pit. There will be arguments, 45 laps will stop any chance off arguments and is only 1h30mins 30mins extra is not that big a deal.
 
kie25
Yes

Different cars have different fual tanks though so mclaren has advantage, people are mistaking over heating there tyres for wearing them out, there is a big difference, if you keep your tyres temperatures under control soft tyres will do the distance, when your tyres are going red that has nothing to do with wear that is just overheating.
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I ran 25 laps yesterday and they were definitely starting to wear out by around lap 20, I was losing rear grip at that point. Went out for another 10 laps on a fresh set and it was absolutely fine (thought I might have had a lapse of concentration.)

I'm quite aggressive however so I tend to get through tyres a bit faster. I agree that the mediums/hards would definitely last the whole race though, probably wouldn't even lose and grip.

I don't mind 1.5 hours, why don't we get @STALLIONO to do a poll? Alternatively we could wait for the patch in case they change something that's not in the notes - previous comment was a load of bollocks.
 
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Surely if they are fuelled for the whole race they will be really slow at the start, either way, you have to do a mandatory pit stop so if they want to carry extra fuel, its their penalty.
 
Markeeez18
Surely if they are fuelled for the whole race they will be really slow at the start, either way, you have to do a mandatory pit stop so if they want to carry extra fuel, its their penalty.
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You would think but with 105 in fual on in Z4 I was still able to get a 2.05.9 in on lap 2 only 1.4 seconds off my best on low fual.
 
kie25
You would think but with 105 in fual on in Z4 I was still able to get a 2.05.9 in on lap 2 only 1.4 seconds off my best on low fual.
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If the average pitstop is less than 30 seconds that 1.4 second gap is going to be more than enough to stop you from winning the race.

Edit: obviously that gap will decrease over time though, there's so many variables that even with testing it's not going to be easy to come to a solution.
 
MrMattAdz
If the average pitstop is less than 30 seconds that 1.4 second gap is going to be more than enough to stop you from winning the race.
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Low fual being 9 on fual if I was running 60 like you said would be half second difference maybe, so half second would not be enough, plus as the 105 runs low you will go faster obviously.
 
For the spreadhsheet. From now on only me and matt can edit. Everyone can comment and ask for rectifications.

I think the stewards for each tier should have the hand. What do you guys think ?

For the pitstops, let's just put it a notch over the fuel capacity.
 
Kkj10
We don't need another poll. We all voted to keep the races at one hour already! It's what I signed up for, its what everyone else signed up for. :banghead:
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Actually to begin with races were supposed to be an hour and a half, we had a poll halfway through in which the majority of people voted for an hour Race time.

I joined when it was an hour and a half, but I did vote for an hour race time as I thought it would make it easier for people to take part.
 
Zeydius
For the spreadhsheet. From now on only me and matt can edit. Everyone can comment and ask for rectifications.

I think the stewards for each tier should have the hand. What do you guys think ?

For the pitstops, let's just put it a notch over the fuel capacity.
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If all cars do 30-32 laps on a tank according to Oz let's use that and add two laps. Only adds 5 minutes and ensures that everyone needs to pit to ensure they make the in lap.
 
xkubunt
If all cars do 30-32 laps on a tank according to Oz let's use that and add two laps. Only adds 5 minutes and ensures that everyone needs to pit to ensure they make the in lap.
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Yeah but kie25 reckons he can run 45 laps in a single stint, if it's possible then 32 laps isn't enough to force everyone to pit.
 
Kkj10
We don't need another poll. We all voted to keep the races at one hour already! It's what I signed up for, its what everyone else signed up for. :banghead:
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Yes but how can we prove everyone pits that's why this is being discussed. There is no way in making pit stops mandatory. Lowering laps to 27 seems the best option then for road. So race distance stays at around 1h and we can all finish without going in the pits.
 
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