Monza....

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So, I wanna find the person who thought it was a good idea to make the braking marker blocks between the two Lesmo's immovable and punch them straight in the face.

Sorry, had to vent.
 
Went a little wide did we?
 
Got a tank slapper coming out of Lesmo 1, got it saved out on the runoff and straight into it.
 
What annoys me is the fact they couldn't come up with a decent penalty system so instead they took a lazy way out to stop corner cutting of covering the chicanes up with barriers that aren't there in real life. Makes it look stupid, and they didn't even do it well.
 
Look Im sorry if this sounds sarcastic!

The whole point of a racing game is to try and stay on the track. With more practice you will avoid the barriers and wall's that arent there in real life.

The next time I hear a racing driver say "well I come off the track but if it wasnt for that stupid tyre barrier I could have gone on to win." Ill die laughing!

Maybe they should make them moveable and destructable and then add into the game the fact that the Canvas gets stuck over your radiator grill and the engine overheats within a lap...Or the (harmless) wooden frame staked a wheel and you got a puncture and had to retire because you couldnt make it to the pits. Or if your driving a Formula the fact that you ended up off the track at all has just wrecked your suspension and your race is over!
 
Maybe they should make them moveable and destructable and then add into the game the fact that the Canvas gets stuck over your radiator grill and the engine overheats within a lap...Or the (harmless) wooden frame staked a wheel and you got a puncture and had to retire because you couldnt make it to the pits. Or if your driving a Formula the fact that you ended up off the track at all has just wrecked your suspension and your race is over!

If they did that it would change the game completely, for the good IMO. Imagine being 5, 10, 100 laps into a race and having to start over because you had brain fade and made a dramatic shunt into the armco. Just like in "real" racing. Or random engine failures, flat tires, etc.

Probably have to be switchable because the boy racers here on the forum wouldn't put up with that very long...
 
The whole point of a racing game is to try and stay on the track. With more practice you will avoid the barriers and wall's that arent there in real life.

You have heard the old Mario Andretti quote "If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough", right?
 
Look Im sorry if this sounds sarcastic!

The whole point of a racing game is to try and stay on the track. With more practice you will avoid the barriers and wall's that arent there in real life.

The next time I hear a racing driver say "well I come off the track but if it wasnt for that stupid tyre barrier I could have gone on to win." Ill die laughing!

Maybe they should make them moveable and destructable and then add into the game the fact that the Canvas gets stuck over your radiator grill and the engine overheats within a lap...Or the (harmless) wooden frame staked a wheel and you got a puncture and had to retire because you couldnt make it to the pits. Or if your driving a Formula the fact that you ended up off the track at all has just wrecked your suspension and your race is over!

It's not about hitting them, it's about realism. Monza doesn't have barriers in real life so it shouldn't have barriers in a game. Same goes for the last chicane at Nurburgring, they shouldn't be there and if the game had a decent penalty system for cutting corners they wouldn't need to be.
 
Its like the top gear test track's infernal cones ... makes it look really wrong and messy

Especially since my car his one once and flew into the air..... from hitting a cone !?!!?
 
There's already been a thread on this subject (the Search button is your best friend on GTP 👍).

For some reason the braking markers at Monza are solid and static, other tracks like Laguna Seca they fly through the air 100ft if you just touch them.

For me, it's the inconsistency of it, why have this happen on one track and not another?
 
It's not about hitting them, it's about realism. Monza doesn't have barriers in real life so it shouldn't have barriers in a game. Same goes for the last chicane at Nurburgring, they shouldn't be there and if the game had a decent penalty system for cutting corners they wouldn't need to be.

Or the walls on the back straight chicane at Daytona...

I've missed my share of braking points and ran wide on Monza, but I've never found that one yet....:D
 
If they did that it would change the game completely, for the good IMO. Imagine being 5, 10, 100 laps into a race and having to start over because you had brain fade and made a dramatic shunt into the armco. Just like in "real" racing. Or random engine failures, flat tires, etc.

Probably have to be switchable because the boy racers here on the forum wouldn't put up with that very long...

For shorter races that would be okay for endurance races, that would be flat out stupid. I can see it now, I'm half way through the 24 hour Le Mans and some stuff happens to totally cause the car to fail so I can't complete the race. What fun.
 
Maybe they should make them moveable and destructable and then add into the game the fact that the Canvas gets stuck over your radiator grill and the engine overheats within a lap...Or the (harmless) wooden frame staked a wheel and you got a puncture and had to retire because you couldnt make it to the pits. Or if your driving a Formula the fact that you ended up off the track at all has just wrecked your suspension and your race is over!

That will be ready for GT10 in 60 years. I hit one of those for the first time last night and was surprised to see my car go from 120 mph to 0 from hitting what is a canvas sign.
 
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Its like the top gear test track's infernal cones ... makes it look really wrong and messy

Especially since my car his one once and flew into the air..... from hitting a cone !?!!?

that happened to me in the top gear special challenge with the lotus. somehow and invisibe cone got under my car sent my nose 70degrees into the air

this is one thing i have hated about gt5 and have keeped my mouth shut because i didnt want everybody coming down on me for trolling or trashing gt5. but those solid concrete barriers in monza :grumpy: killed it for me. there is nothing like that in, i believe its deep forest; the last chicane. slow clowns cut it online like it paved.
the racing line coming out of the parabolica at monza that the AI take is wrong. they hit the apex then swing out to the edge of the track then back towards the middle of the road like they are entering the pits and slowly cut back across to the outer edge along the main straight. in real life the after the driver hits the apex they swing out to the outer edge of the track and follow along there to the first chicane. that is why there is rumble strip at the end of the parabolica where the old banked course meets with the main straight. during F1 qualifying the drivers hug the curve and drive up along the inside wall for the shortest distance to the finish line. in GT5 the AI does neither and goes somewhere inbetween.
two very obvious mistakes i was very disappointed about with monza.
but ultimately i guess, at least it is in the game. i dont even want to think about what atrocities they might put into Spa-Francorchamps IF PD ever releases a version.
 
It's not about hitting them, it's about realism. Monza doesn't have barriers in real life so it shouldn't have barriers in a game. Same goes for the last chicane at Nurburgring, they shouldn't be there and if the game had a decent penalty system for cutting corners they wouldn't need to be.

I think Pro Race Driver on the Xbox/PSP (was it on PS2 as well) and Race Pro on the 360 both would give you black flags if you cut the course too much. I agree something like that should be there, and it's sloppy programming not to have implemented, particularly for a game priding itself in realism.
 
that happened to me in the top gear special challenge with the lotus. somehow and invisibe cone got under my car sent my nose 70degrees into the air

This happened to me at Le Mans (Sarthe), I cut the tight right hand bend at the end of the Mulsanne straight, a cone went under my car and I couldn't steer. I had to stop, reverse the car (no bull) and it popped out and I could continue.
 
What about corner one at the charger ft 70 season challenge? I was breaking thinking oh no too early should I cut or keep going. I saw the Bollard and I homed in on it like a magnet.

Yea its pretty solid too.

And is it saarthe or nur circuit I can't remember but there's 2 chicane before final straight. You can cut both and no penalties?

Are there Any penalties for cutting at all on a spec?

Edit cones are crazy I span one car into a cone and it resolved my spin completely!
 
What is kind of odd is that on some tracks the breaking markers do give if you ram into them but those ones on monza are like super markers, and yes the ai did block me off and i tried to go around :P.
 
The ones in the final chicane at the GP-Strecke has partially movable barriers. The ones near the end I've hit at like 100 mph and they went flying, haha.
 
PD need to patch that second chicane at Monza, it's wide open for abuse, and ruins all races there. 👍
 
Yeah i constantly catch though, and ive driven into the pit wall countless times on Tsukuba, Clubman Route 7 and Nurburgring GP.

CURSE ME AND MY TIGHT OVERTAKING LINES.
 
PD need to patch that second chicane at Monza, it's wide open for abuse, and ruins all races there. 👍

Totally agree.
That's the greatest problem to be fixed asap.
I can tolerate the concrete markers, because I need them to have consistent braking point out there, lap after lap, but the Variante della Roggia can be cut even with penalties On.
What the heck?! :crazy:
 
For shorter races that would be okay for endurance races, that would be flat out stupid. I can see it now, I'm half way through the 24 hour Le Mans and some stuff happens to totally cause the car to fail so I can't complete the race. What fun.

True in a game. But there are lots and lots of cars in RL endurance racing that don't complete the course, and most are because of mechanical failures. Do we wan't that much realism? Probably not. But terminating the race because you wreck your car bad enough that it's undrivable is a possibility. Or maybe you just have to wait for a tow back to the pits where you can "fix" the damage...
 
And is it saarthe or nur circuit I can't remember but there's 2 chicane before final straight. You can cut both and no penalties?

Are there Any penalties for cutting at all on a spec?

PD need to patch that second chicane at Monza, it's wide open for abuse, and ruins all races there. 👍

These two chicanes mentioned (quoted above) are a complete gift to the 'cutters' on A spec, especially the last 2 chicanes Le Mans. I tried it to see if there was anything stopping me and there wasn't, you can just keep accelerating through it and be in 4th gear on full throtttle going straight, when you shoud really be in 2nd gear going round a chicane.

I've played online at Monza, and you do get a penalty for blatantly cutting the chicane (straight lining it), but you can really ride the kerbs and have your whole car off track and still not get a penalty. I haven't tried Le Mans online, but I'm presuming if there's a penalty at Monza's chicance there'll be one at Le Mans too.

At least it's not as bad as Fuji on GT5 prologue, that got on my nerves so much.
 
but you can really ride the kerbs and have your whole car off track and still not get a penalty.
Which is perfectly acceptable and is generally what real racing drivers do.
 
LOL. This thread made me think of GTA IV. I just imagined my bob hitting these immovable barriers at 100mph+, flying through the windscreen and barrel rolling down the track. Hee Hee
 
Yeah, those nylon brake markers are pretty ridiculously tough lol
 
So, I wanna find the person who thought it was a good idea to make the braking marker blocks between the two Lesmo's immovable and punch them straight in the face.

Sorry, had to vent.

This. I went ape**** during the X1 challenge. Then I learned how to actually drive.
 
Top Gear also has these immortal brake markers going into the back chicane. You have to think reasonably about it given the differences between a video game and reality:


-In a video game, if you smack a concrete barrier, you can either hit restart or go repair it for virtual credit that you can typically regain through other races within the hour. Smacking an immovable barrier that's off the track doesn't really have all that much effect other than an annoyance.
-In reality, if you wreck the car, you have to use actual money. In addition, you can't just go do another race 5 minutes later or repeat a short race over and over (within 5 minutes, no less) and earn money - you have to wait for an event that you have a legal car to use with comes up, and typically the car you just wrecked is the only car (not necessarily one and only, however) you actually have. Smacking an immovable barrier like that would destroy the car, so they are breakable to minimize damage.
==You can't wreck a real life car with the same lack of consequences as you can a video game car.

-In a video game, penalties are assigned by a fixed and unchanging set of rules (until a patch comes out and changes them). They are black and white in coding, even if not quite so in execution. There is no human factor to determine whether a close call is or is not a penalty or whether a post action mitigates taking a penalty (such as the stop-and-go used at the bus stop chicanes at Watkins Glen or Daytona). Likewise, since not every event has these penalties enabled, some form of barrier is otherwise required to keep people following some semblance of rules. Combine this with the above point, and an immovable barrier does the trick.


A perfect example of this is Circuit de la Sarthe 2009 at turn 1 and at the right-hander leading onto the back straight. No walls are present at either of these turns blocking off what would be used in real life as a courtesy run-off area where a driver can miss a turn, recover without taking damage, and fall back in line. As players of a video game, however, where there are no penalties for such an action, there is nothing stopping us from abusing these run offs except for a moral compass.

But of course, this is a video game - there are no negatives to using these short cuts. People may dislike you, but if you're using public lobbies, there's a low chance you'll encounter the same people anyways. There's a fine balance between realism and enforcement. For the Sarthe turns I mentioned, you typically still have to slow down somewhat to avoid flying off the track, so their use is slightly mitigated naturally. However, the "concrete styrofoam" at Monza is necessary because, otherwise, you're looking at a kink rather than a chicane.


tl;dr - lack of a well functioning penalty enforcement necessitates a better functioning barrier enforcement. It could be better done, however, by giving an option in Multiplayer rooms to remove these barrier enforcements in favor of a stricter penalty enforcement in those areas (and a better functioning one too - clutch does wonders to negate a timed penalty in this game).
 
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