More opponents to come in VR mode?

[simsimsheree]

At GTS's resolution and framerate, I'm doubting that much more than two cars can be rendered.

BUT...

As two cars are possible, I am not sure why those two cars can't be you and another online driver. Or you and an AI car set to at least the ability of in game AI. The AI in VR Mode is the worst in the entire game. Why the AI can't manage the pace of Professional is beyond me. That the same choices in AI ability aren't offered is beyond me. Why another online player can't be raced is beyond me (the console doesn't even need to calculate the physics for that at all, which might tend to lead to more horsepower freed up, not less). Why only 1-5 laps (depending on track length) can be raced against the AI can't be raced is beyond me.

Forgive me, I haven't had time to check it out today, but in Time Trial Mode, are you restricted to the same number of laps the AI forces you into? And do you get the ghost of your car to pace yourself? If the answers to both are yes, then I see no technical reason why either an AI race couldn't be more laps, and couldn't be one online player.

Has it ever occurred to all of us that PD has no technical reasons to not do all this now, but want to dribble it out to us at six month or so intervals to distract us from the dearth of content? Bread and circuses to distract the plebiscites?

 

[theVenerable]

I disagree.
I think they are releasing great content, like GT6, it had many updates in the end.
The only think I dont like is their decision to not scale down the graphics in order to get more cars on the VR grid - or multiplayer online.
Other than that, it's looking good with the updates as far as I can see

 

[simsimsheree]

If there's one thing you can guarantee with PD, it that they will always prioritize eye candy over everything. The game is sold to kids with little knowledge of motorsports or its rules, but they sure can tell if a picture is sharp and has high framerates!

I have GTS and DriveclubVR. GTS's visual fidelity is obviously, far higher than DVR, but DVR offers a full grid and, IMO, better, brighter lighting, but it is way down in resolution compared to GTS. This is obviously the tradeoff. If you think for one minute PD would trade resolution for a full grid, you don't know PD!

They only thing PD know about motorsports and driving is how to make it LOOK good. To the detriment of actually being able to do anything with it.

 

[sirjim73]

Will it be similar to normal non-VR time trial i.e. solo leaderboards and choice of any car/track combo?

I'd prefer some channeling of players to specific weekly combos to increase the social and competitive aspect, as playing VR can feel incredibly lonely at times when the first rush wears off.

Time Trial at least in VR ! This is a good news, and PD are working in the good direction.

For the OP : The PS4 (standard) doesn't seem powerful enough to display more than 2 cars at a time. Remember that for VR, the console has to produce 1080p90 or even 1080p120 (I don't know wich mode is used for GT Sport) instead of 1080p60 so compromises have been made.

The sad part about that is that the PS4 Pro is really more powerful (2.5 times faster than the vanilla PS4) and it can probably handle a whole grid of cars and even the full game IMO. But from what I can see Sony only authorize the PS4 Pro to enhance graphically a game (4K, antialiasing, 60fps, HDR...) but a game cannot have Pro only features... (I didn't see any example of that, have you ?) I could have bought a PS4 Pro only for GT Sport if the game has included good Pro VR features.


You are so true, what we really now is (and is really easy to achieve) :
- VR drive : let us select opponent car and AI level, number of laps, those parameters already exist in custom races
- Lobby VR : 1 vs 1, it could be a simple option in the lobby...

Please PD ! You've made an excellent work with VR in this game, just give us the features it deserve <3

I don't have a VR and the only time I tried it on GT Sport with a friend, I ended up feeling

I hope they add more features on top of the Time Trial they've added. However, if there are enough people on GTPlanet willing to join in...? Why not create your own weekly combos on GTPlanet using this thread.

Pick a track and a car and run a weekly time trial something like the existing GTPlanet trials but focused on VR? Or even run the GTPLanet weekly trials but in VR only?

 

[poumpoum]

Has it ever occurred to all of us that PD has no technical reasons to not do all this now, but want to dribble it out to us at six month or so intervals to distract us from the dearth of content? Bread and circuses to distract the plebiscites?

Honestly, I think that they don't consider the VR as a real feature of the game, it's more a tech demo for them and IMO thay's why they don't put a lot of work into VR.

But I hope I'm wrong and they will add a lot of VR features in the future !

 

[Sergio18]

The VR mode of Gran Turismo I'm sure it's an imposition of sony, however you do not have to be extremists, it's a 200 dollar hardware with the cheapest VR device in the market ... And it looks amazing !! It is a superb work if viewed from an objective context. It's a VR demo of the future GT 7, I'm sure the next one will be fully functional in all game modes.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Well, Wipeout VR looks incredible and offers the entire game in VR, including online races. The environments actually look better than GT Sport in VR. So, Kaz, step it up and finish the VR mode so I can play sport mode in VR. There's nothing wrong with the PS4.

I played some time trial in GT Sport, yet without other cars it's not much fun.

 

[james_L]

I don't have a VR and the only time I tried it on GT Sport with a friend, I ended up feeling

I hope they add more features on top of the Time Trial they've added. However, if there are enough people on GTPlanet willing to join in...? Why not create your own weekly combos on GTPlanet using this thread.

Pick a track and a car and run a weekly time trial something like the existing GTPlanet trials but focused on VR? Or even run the GTPLanet weekly trials but in VR only?

Good idea re: GT time trials. Only thing I don't like is that people might miss BOP settings, tyre settings, might type time in wrong etc. It just feels like a cheap compromise, when on the face of it, doesn't seem like much development to fix.

I think I will feel it's truly a 'fair deal' if we have minimim 4-player VR only daily races, and no longer feels like VR is a sub feature or tech demo.

 

[GTCam]

I know this doesn’t count, however, in Time Trial mode we can have 2 ghosts on the track... which makes it a 3 car race

 

[KingFrog]

Well, Wipeout VR looks incredible and offers the entire game in VR, including online races. The environments actually look better than GT Sport in VR. So, Kaz, step it up and finish the VR mode so I can play sport mode in VR. There's nothing wrong with the PS4.

I played some time trial in GT Sport, yet without other cars it's not much fun.

Wipeout VR is a 10+-year-old game that ran at 1080p 60 FPS on the ps3. Why because its source code comes from the psp /ps2.. So yeah Kaz, Revert the graphics back tp GT psp and spruce up the textures and lighting..

 

[senzr]

...don't care if it doesn't show the 3D, at least interior view and lack of FoV would be compensated by this...

I think the whole point of VR is to feel like you're really in the car. Without the interior, you can't achieve that effect. Personally, I love it. It makes my car fantasies come true, and I feel like I know the car more, because I've "been" in it virtually. If you have a wheel setup + PSVR, the immersive feeling is fantastic. On a controller, not so much...

The VR Time Trial update is all I need, I don't really care that there aren't other cars to race against. That's what the rest of the game is for. Until we get more processing power in PS5, I'm happy with this.

 

[Tou2istTrophy]

Hi guys,

- Is it ever hard to get the orientation/perspective of the POV straight and even?

- Can you look around anywhere? Or if for example, you look to high or too far behind does it glitch?

- Can you really feel the elevation of the circuit when playing in VR?

- Can you save and watch replays of the VR time trials?

 

[senzr]

Hi guys,

- Is it ever hard to get the orientation/perspective of the POV straight and even?

- Can you look around anywhere? Or if for example, you look to high or too far behind does it glitch?

- Can you really feel the elevation of the circuit when playing in VR?

- Can you save and watch replays of the VR time trials?

You can always re-center your POV position by pressing OPTIONS. In my rig, I sit a bit higher, re-centre, then sit back down. It's like lowering the seat position. You can look around anywhere to admire the beautiful modelling of the interior. But when you clip (like sticking your head out the window), the screen blacks out.

To all your other questions, the answer is YES.

IMO, PSVR is only really worth it with a wheel rig.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Wipeout VR is a 10+-year-old game that ran at 1080p 60 FPS on the ps3. Why because its source code comes from the psp /ps2.. So yeah Kaz, Revert the graphics back tp GT psp and spruce up the textures and lighting..

And it would be awesome to play online! PS2 car models for the others cars should be sufficient. I'm sure 19 ps2 cars is still less polygons than the 1 ps4 AI car that is driving around with you.

 

[JacksHerer]

It saddens me that the driveclub team got shut down, driveclub vr could have become a much clearer game.. if they had adopted GTS limited car model (screen turns black when you exceed visible area of the model) or Dirt Rally VR car model (normally unvisible area of car is not even rendered), then they would have had more power to use on the distance visibility.

GTS had multiple people driving against each other in VR in an early video, so there is still hope we may get something in the future.

 

[DJShadesUK]

However, I'd like to see possibility to use VR headset on normal races, don't care if it doesn't show the 3D, at least interior view and lack of FoV would be compensated by this...

THIS. I've had 30 years of playing video games and judging distances viewed on a flat plane . I, and many others like me, are used to not having stereoscopic 3D, but just being able to look around to see where your opponents are would make a huge difference. I cannot see any technical limitation to this approach. Even if the PSVR headset expects a certain frame rate (double the usual TV frame rate to accommodate stereoscopic left and right images) it doesn't mean the PS4 has to render at that frame rate. All the PS4 has to do is render at the normal rate then copy the current rendered frame into the next frame buffer (therefore both left and right eye get the same image). The important thing is that this method should incur little to no extra system overhead thus allowing a full field of opponents, both off and online.

 

[DJShadesUK]

Wipeout VR looks incredible and offers the entire game in VR, including online races. The environments actually look better than GT Sport in VR. So, Kaz, step it up and finish the VR mode so I can play sport mode in VR. There's nothing wrong with the PS4.

Unfortunately you're comparing apples and oranges. The reason Wipeout works so well in VR today is down to a design decision Psygnosis made due to the limitations of the PS1; the design of the ships and, to a lesser extent, the environments.

Even though the PS1 was amazing for its time the developers of Wipeout, much like Polyphony Digital, had to be very frugal with their polygon count, this led to the design choice, out of necessity, of making the ships consist almost entirely of flat planes (Psygnosis also had the benefit of it being a fantasy game, the ships didn't have to look "real") Flat planes require very little geometry, the less geometry per ship the less render overhead, the less render overhead per ship the more ships can be rendered. Fortunately for Wipeout this design became a stylistic signature of the game that was carried forward, which is a luxury not afforded to games that aim for ever increasing real-world realism, like Gran Turismo.

Very few cars have perfectly flat surfaces, they all have subtle curves, realistically replicating those curves in a 3D model requires vastly more polygons than a perfectly flat surface. The smoother, and more realistic, you want the cars to appear, the more polygons are required; there is absolutely no getting around this. Gran Turismo 5 had models with upwards of 500k polygons so its not hard to imagine (after seeing side-by-side comparisons of the same cars in GT6 and GTS) the current crop of GTS cars having close to or exceeding 1m polygons (after all Kaz has said the cars are being modelled with a view to them being assets in a future PS5 GT title too). Also, if you know anything about 3D modelling, its not hard to imagine that, due the relatively simple designs of Wipeout ships, an entire field of ships uses fewer polygons than that of a single GTS car model.

As mentioned before this principle extends to the environments of Wipeout, albeit to a lesser extent. Futuristic doesn't have to mimic real, therefore they can get away with amazingly good looking environments which don't have the same geometry requirements of trying to replicate real world objects/places.

This is the key as to why Wipeout VR will appear to be superior to Gran Turismo Sports VR efforts; there will be an astronomically different polygon count slanted heavily in favour of Wipeout VR. Consoles only have finite resources, the developers of Wipeout VR don't have some secret sauce that Polyphony aren't privy to allowing them to go full VR where Gran Turismo can't. Its purely and simply a numbers game. in non-VR mode Wipeout will be using 50% (or less) of the GPU's performance, it physically has to if in VR the game is full and without reduced detail. The fact that GTS has to make big compromises to accommodate VR tell us that even in none VR mode GTS is pushing close to the limits of the PS4s GPU.

 

[simsimsheree]

Hi guys,

- Is it ever hard to get the orientation/perspective of the POV straight and even?

- Can you look around anywhere? Or if for example, you look to high or too far behind does it glitch?

- Can you really feel the elevation of the circuit when playing in VR?

- Can you save and watch replays of the VR time trials?

Thing is, in a car seat, you can't move around too much. No, this isn't a game where you can open the door, get out the car, walk around it, look under the hood, yada, yada, yada and not run the risk of getting outside the limited range the camera can pick you up in. But sit in the driver's seat and not move too far forwards or backwards (game assumes you are in a racing harness!), immersion is magnificent.

Elevation changes are the icing on the cake. I never realized how steep some of the tracks are! But there's a downside... Initially, it takes a while to get your inner ear to not fight your eyes as you go over a steep drop (and some never get them to reconcile) and not make your stomach flipflop! It's the same principle as seasickness - your inner ear is giving your brain different data to your eyes. I found my first few PSVR driving experiences occasionally nauseating, and had to limit them to a few minutes at a time (YMMV), but keeping at it finally got my head to reconcile the conflicting data, and I can comfortably drive for hours now. To the point that visor comfort is the main limiting factor.

Take the Sambabus around the 'Ring... Sublime! Windows everywhere, 360º vision, slow enough to be able to enjoy every last trackside detail...

Sadly, it's a tantalizing glimpse of where we will be in 5 years time with a full PS5 game. By which time, of course, PC racing sims will make us look like the crippled joke we are today compared to our PC sim cousins..!

 

[Tou2istTrophy]

Thing is, in a car seat, you can't move around too much. No, this isn't a game where you can open the door, get out the car, walk around it, look under the hood, yada, yada, yada and not run the risk of getting outside the limited range the camera can pick you up in. But sit in the driver's seat and not move too far forwards or backwards (game assumes you are in a racing harness!), immersion is magnificent.

Elevation changes are the icing on the cake. I never realized how steep some of the tracks are! But there's a downside... Initially, it takes a while to get your inner ear to not fight your eyes as you go over a steep drop (and some never get them to reconcile) and not make your stomach flipflop! It's the same principle as seasickness - your inner ear is giving your brain different data to your eyes. I found my first few PSVR driving experiences occasionally nauseating, and had to limit them to a few minutes at a time (YMMV), but keeping at it finally got my head to reconcile the conflicting data, and I can comfortably drive for hours now. To the point that visor comfort is the main limiting factor.

Take the Sambabus around the 'Ring... Sublime! Windows everywhere, 360º vision, slow enough to be able to enjoy every last trackside detail...

Sadly, it's a tantalizing glimpse of where we will be in 5 years time with a full PS5 game. By which time, of course, PC racing sims will make us look like the crippled joke we are today compared to our PC sim cousins..!

Thank you for the reply. I am looking forward to taking an open top car around the ring (with the TH8A shifter)! I am happy to hear about the elevations, because it’s not something that you really notice when playing on a TV or monitor.

I will be purchasing a PS-VR this week, I really can’t wait!

 

[JacksHerer]

^ It is well worth picking up Dirt Rally VR too, if you get a bit lonely from GTS VR, you can jump into Dirt Rally VR and talk to your co-driver and wave back at the crowd when they throw their arms in the air

 

[Woodybobs]

I loaded up DriveClub VR last night for the first time in a while and stumbled into a lobby with seven others. I'm still smiling

 

[JacksHerer]

I loaded up DriveClub VR last night for the first time in a while and stumbled into a lobby with seven others. I'm still smiling

Pressing the brake pedal and actually braking is enough to make me smile when I fire up Driveclub VR. I love being able to park up and get out of the car too, just to take in the scenery and ponder who is doing all the littering

 

[Woodybobs]

who is doing all the littering

I've got to stop leaving all my crap on the caterham's passenger seat.

 

[poumpoum]

And the full translation via Google. An interesting read.
For VR, however, he (Kaz) hopes for the future more powerful processors. The hardware of the eyewear itself is not the biggest challenge for him, because higher resolutions and refresh rates can be achieved relatively easily with modern displays. Above all, in his eyes, a huge performance boost in CPUs and GPUs is necessary, which are responsible for the calculation of the 3D worlds. Here is the motto for him: There can never be enough power! And that's exactly what he sees as the biggest hurdle in terms of further development of VR technology. At the same time, it is crucial to keep the latency and input lag as low as possible, especially with regard to VR. However, as processor performance increases, latency increases at the same time. Finding an optimal solution here is difficult and at the same time a huge challenge for the future of VR.

I hope that doesn't mean they will stop to add VR features for GT Sport.

Come on Kaz !
- VR drive : let us select opponent car and AI level, number of laps, those parameters already exist in custom races
- Lobby VR : 1 vs 1, it could be a simple option in the lobby...
- PS4 Pro : Full Game in VR (I know I'm dreaming)

 

[Tou2istTrophy]

When the car starts to get a little loose, the view becomes all distorted and it switches to normal screen for a second before it switches back. Has anyone had this problem?

Also, is there a way to sit higher in the car? I feel like an 8 year old with the steering wheel in my face haha

 

[philipPF]

When the car starts to get a little loose, the view becomes all distorted and it switches to normal screen for a second before it switches back. Has anyone had this problem?

Also, is there a way to sit higher in the car? I feel like an 8 year old with the steering wheel in my face haha

To sit higher, just bend down a little bit then reset the view by long-pressing the options button, then come back to your normal position

For the first thing you mention, I don't know, what do you mean with normal view ?

Anyway, I did another 30min time trial session yesterday on Interlagos, no motion sickness at all, the VR + wheel feeling is absolutely awesome... Everything on the track feels so different than on a TV screen, distances, environment, lightning... I really love it !

 

[poumpoum]

For the first thing you mention, I don't know, what do you mean with normal view ?

I think he's simply to far from the camera or not in the field of it so the game go back to the "cinema mode" where you can play every game.

 

[CaptainAlan8]

I would honestly take GT2 remade into VR over GTS with no VR!

 

[Tou2istTrophy]

To sit higher, just bend down a little bit then reset the view by long-pressing the options button, then come back to your normal position

Thank you!

I think he's simply to far from the camera or not in the field of it so the game go back to the "cinema mode" where you can play every game.

Yep that’s it, I noticed when I spin out/get a lot of oversteer, or on a really tight hairpin, it goes back into cinema mode for a second and then switches back to VR mode immediately.

How important is the PSVR camera placement btw? I think I need to find the perfect position (maybe on top of my monitor)

 

[GTAJoerg]

Thank you!



Yep that’s it, I noticed when I spin out/get a lot of oversteer, or on a really tight hairpin, it goes back into cinema mode for a second and then switches back to VR mode immediately.

How important is the PSVR camera placement btw? I think I need to find the perfect position (maybe on top of my monitor)

I put my PS4 camera on top of my TV.....I use a sim racing rig for my PSVR and it is a great immersion and feeling.
Important os to calibrate the PS4 camera with your PSVR in the PS4 menu and adjust your eyes distance position in the menu aswell.
There is 1 thing that drives me nuts......the tracking. While driving in GTS with the PSVR it looses all the time the neutral center position, I have to press "options" button very often to center it again, that is very annoying. Other than that the VR mode in GTS is great fun, expect the pseudo race against only 1 stupid AI opponent.