Motor City Tunes

Nomis - I don't see how you critisized my method. If I read this correctly, you used much of my method to tune a car for your driving style. Looks like on this car you found an ARB setting that liked more front bar. It may be because of the soft spring settings. Try playing some more with springs and ARBs together. Think about how they can work together.

Good testing. Keep it up. The community needs more logical testing like this.
 
Phew! Yeah, I thought it would be the front stiffness = less understeer result that would be controversial.

I agree about the link between springs/dampers and anti-roll bars. In the past I usually stumbled on a good balance between the settings, but now I am actually starting to understand what I'm doing!

Thanks for sharing your damper theory, I often get unexpected results when tweaking dampers, it's great to have another theory to throw into the mix.

Cheers,
Simon
 
this is not meant to poo-poo on your advanced tuning section because there is a lot of good info in it but IMO, you misunderstand how damper extension works.

to illustrate, think of front extension as the force keeping the front end down or resisting it's tendency to lift under acceleration - the higher the value, the more the damper resists extending. just like compression but the other way around. ;) so, to tune out corner exit understeer - when weight naturally shifts to the rear and tries to make the front light (lose grip), you would raise the front extension value (and/or increase rear compression). when it comes to cornering forces, dampers settings have more of a relationship with the opposite ends opposite damper setting. ie. front extension and rear compression work together and vicey versa. if that makes sense.
 
esoxhntr
this is not meant to poo-poo on your advanced tuning section because there is a lot of good info in it but IMO, you misunderstand how damper extension works.

to illustrate, think of front extension as the force keeping the front end down or resisting it's tendency to lift under acceleration - the higher the value, the more the damper resists extending. just like compression but the other way around. ;) so, to tune out corner exit understeer - when weight naturally shifts to the rear and tries to make the front light (lose grip), you would raise the front extension value (and/or increase rear compression). when it comes to cornering forces, dampers settings have more of a relationship with the opposite ends opposite damper setting. ie. front extension and rear compression work together and vicey versa. if that makes sense.
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I believe that I said the same thing that you just did in my guide. Road racing usually calls for softer compression and harder extension. The spread between compression and extension can be useful to balance traction. I normally recommend a starting point using a spread of two digits higher extension than compression. The shock should absorb the bump more easily on the up travel and the shock should rebound more slowly to keep the car from bouncing.

I don't see the difference in what we each wrote, but thanks for checking out the garage and sharing your thoughts.
 
I have a question. I'm currently driving the Ferrari 458' Italia with your setup you described in the PDF. Seeing as I am a complete nubblet on tuning I cannot figure the next thing out myself:

If I use your exact setup for a car, but I want to change the soft sport tyres into let's say, racing hard or racing soft. Does that mean that the overall performance of the car decreases a bit because of a combination change?

I mean, I could imagine that using certain tyres asks for a certain setup concerning downforce, suspension settings etc. But I'm a noob at this, so maybe it doesn't matter. Anyway, would you like to enlighten me on this one?
 
Hbc Hades
I have a question. I'm currently driving the Ferrari 458' Italia with your setup you described in the PDF. Seeing as I am a complete nubblet on tuning I cannot figure the next thing out myself:

If I use your exact setup for a car, but I want to change the soft sport tyres into let's say, racing hard or racing soft. Does that mean that the overall performance of the car decreases a bit because of a combination change?

I mean, I could imagine that using certain tyres asks for a certain setup concerning downforce, suspension settings etc. But I'm a noob at this, so maybe it doesn't matter. Anyway, would you like to enlighten me on this one?
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I find that the front/rear balance of a good tune will not change as you change tires. If you are going to a harder tire that the car was tuned on, you may uncover a balance issue in the tune as softer tires can mask issues. If you are moving to softer tires, the tune should just get faster with no issues.
 
Is there anyway you could try tuning the zonda? The suspension settings I found were great, but no one has a tranny set up for it. Any help or suggestions?
 
MCH, thanks so much, this thread is a goldmine! Everything I've read makes perfect sense and I'm already starting to get a proper grip of what everything does. Will definitely keep this thread bookmarked.

Just one question, when you say you're getting "push" from a car, what does that refer to?

Thanks in advance and kind regards.

Oh and one other thing, when you're finding the right LSD settings, do you have all the aids turned off?
 
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TVRFanboy83
MCH, thanks so much, this thread is a goldmine! Everything I've read makes perfect sense and I'm already starting to get a proper grip of what everything does. Will definitely keep this thread bookmarked.

Just one question, when you say you're getting "push" from a car, what does that refer to?

Thanks in advance and kind regards.
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Push to me means understeer. The front wheels are sliding, not gripping.

Glad you like the guide. I have another 25 tunes that I haven't posted. I need to get those up there.
 
Motor City Hami
Push to me means understeer. The front wheels are sliding, not gripping.

Glad you like the guide. I have another 25 tunes that I haven't posted. I need to get those up there.
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Cool, I thought as much. Just applied the LSD settings of your Shelby GT350R tune and knocked seven seconds off my time round Rome! :D Going to try the rest of the settings now, see how it feels.

I don't know if you use the track much but when I brake for the the 5th(?) corner, the sharp hairpin, the fronts light up red even with very light braking and then the rears join in and the car just slides very ungracefully round the whole corner. Any tips? Could it just be my driving style? I do have more power as I tuned it before coming across your settings, but I've limited it to 398bhp.

Looking forward to whatever other tunes you decide to share with us, I'll be right at the front of the queue.

Peace.
 
TVRFanboy83
Cool, I thought as much. Just applied the LSD settings of your Shelby GT350R tune and knocked seven seconds off my time round Rome! :D Going to try the rest of the settings now, see how it feels.

I don't know if you use the track much but when I brake for the the 5th(?) corner, the sharp hairpin, the fronts light up red even with very light braking and then the rears join in and the car just slides very ungracefully round the whole corner. Any tips? Could it just be my driving style? I do have more power as I tuned it before coming across your settings, but I've limited it to 398bhp.

Looking forward to whatever other tunes you decide to share with us, I'll be right at the front of the queue.

Peace.
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What other settings are you running? Do you have my full setup on the car or is it a bit of a hybrid between mine and yours? It could be not enough camber, too heavy of anti-roll bars, too heavy of springs/dampers?
 
Motor City Hami
What other settings are you running? Do you have my full setup on the car or is it a bit of a hybrid between mine and yours? It could be not enough camber, too heavy of anti-roll bars, too heavy of springs/dampers?
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I've applied all your settings, aside from the fact I'd already done the engine tuning/weight loss program before, so I've got a bit more power and less weight.

So as I understand it, camber provides more stability at speed, but hampers turn-in?

If the ARB/springs/dampers are too strong does that mean that there's not enough give so the car is more likely to 'skip' or bounce when there's load on the suspension?
 
I would increase the camber to start with. Between 2.5 and 3.0 front and around 2.0 rear. Next I would try taking the front bar down from 5 to 4. If this produces a loose condition during braking/turn in, then adjust the LSD braking up to between 15 and 20 to settle the entry back down. Try it and let me know the result. With some cars, you can't fully eliminate the red tire syndrom, but you can usually reduce it.
 
My current tune for the FGT seasonal usnig a DS3 controller analog sticks with extenders.

Racing soft
TCS 1
ABS 1
All other aids off
Downforce 70/90
Balast 0
Final Gear 4.212
Top Speed 267
1st gear 6.552
2nd 4.000
3rd 2.850
4th 2.150
5th 1.725
6th 1.425
7th 1.193
LSD Initial Torque 30
LSD Accel 45
LSD Braking 35
Ride height 0/0
Spring rate 17.5/16.0
Dampers extend 8/7
Dampers compress 6/5
Anti-roll bars 6/4
Camber 3.0/2.5
Toe -0.10/+0.25
Brakes 6/4
 
Hi Keith,

Do you find any differences after the spec 2.0 update? In my humble opinion, I found most of the car with your tunes are even easier to handle after the update. Please share your thoughts.
 
miata22
Hi Keith,

Do you find any differences after the spec 2.0 update? In my humble opinion, I found most of the car with your tunes are even easier to handle after the update. Please share your thoughts.
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I think that those who believed in the backward settings are going to struggle now. I've driven maybe 10 cars today after spec 2.0 update. All of them have way more grip overall. I am shattering my pre-update lap times. I should specify that today has been spent in seasonals, offline practice modes and arcade using cars from my tuned garage. My FGT which was a handful and you had to be really careful off of tight corners, the car has come to life. I can be aggressive with it and I'm not getting the surprise, your over the limit spin out.

The cars are more predictable. Kinda feels like they went back to a physics model closer to GT4 grip levels. Maybe PD took the grip modeling too far and backed it down a bit?

Haven't had time, but can't wait to test online as well. Reports I am hearing from friends is that online grip is also up, but still not exact to online. I tend to simply alter LSD settings between online and offline, so the extra setting screens is a big help.
 
Motor City Hami
I would increase the camber to start with. Between 2.5 and 3.0 front and around 2.0 rear. Next I would try taking the front bar down from 5 to 4. If this produces a loose condition during braking/turn in, then adjust the LSD braking up to between 15 and 20 to settle the entry back down. Try it and let me know the result. With some cars, you can't fully eliminate the red tire syndrom, but you can usually reduce it.
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You're a legend :) That worked a treat. Knocked almost another 2 seconds off my personal best, no random four wheel drifts, so much better when accelerating out of a corner and very easy to catch slides. Thanks very much for your help MCH.

Peace.
 
TVRFanboy83
You're a legend :) That worked a treat. Knocked almost another 2 seconds off my personal best, no random four wheel drifts, so much better when accelerating out of a corner and very easy to catch slides. Thanks very much for your help MCH.

Peace.
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Thanks. Any time. I like to help and if you can't tell I am really into making cars handle.
 
Just a note on your shelby gt350 tune. I already had a decent self tune for this car and thought i`d use your tune to tidy up the loose rear end. Did a few laps on trial mountain with your tune (i have a G25) and couldn`t stop spinning out,anything other than a straight line would see the rear step out under brakes or on any fraction of accel when exiting a corner. Also i noticed the front end lacked bite.

Went back to my settings and the car was much more calm and had more front bite. I basically just back off the spring rates 3.5 on front and 2 or 3 on rear and back off the front shocks 1 click on comp and ext. Also i soften the front sway bar 1 or 2 and the rear 1 or 2 clicks. I also set intial torque to 15 and braking to 7. I can give you a exact copy set up if you like. I just felt the car was way to stiff and nervous.
 
premhz
Just a note on your shelby gt350 tune. I already had a decent self tune for this car and thought i`d use your tune to tidy up the loose rear end. Did a few laps on trial mountain with your tune (i have a G25) and couldn`t stop spinning out,anything other than a straight line would see the rear step out under brakes or on any fraction of accel when exiting a corner. Also i noticed the front end lacked bite.

Went back to my settings and the car was much more calm and had more front bite. I basically just back off the spring rates 3.5 on front and 2 or 3 on rear and back off the front shocks 1 click on comp and ext. Also i soften the front sway bar 1 or 2 and the rear 1 or 2 clicks. I also set intial torque to 15 and braking to 7. I can give you a exact copy set up if you like. I just felt the car was way to stiff and nervous.
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Thanks for the feedback. Tunes built for me can only get you in the ballpark for you. Your driving style will be different and you are using a G25 vs. me using th DS3. I just bought a G27, so I will be adding tunes for the wheel soon and I am noticing that the tunes can be much more agressive with the DS3. You are in the right ballpark on the suspension items that you have adjusted. You may need to go further on LSD settings. On the tunes that I have tested betwen controller and wheel, I have found that the LSD Accel and Decel setting are usualy pretty close; adjusted them up a few numbers (maybe 5), but pretty close. The Initial Torque is what I am finding that settles a car down between the two controllers. With the wheel, on that car, don't be affraid to experiment with up to 45 Inital Torque.

Thanks again for trying my tunes and don't be affraid to post feedback and ask for help making the tune fit for you.
 
Looking for obnoxiously bright greens paints like sublime, lime green metalic, Verde Ithaca, Sassy Grass Green, curious yellow, envy, etc. I pretty much only use bright greens, so let me know if you need any other colors.
 
Indeed, really like the quick tunes and they work quite good for what they are. Nice base settings to start fine tuning for what i like to drive myself. Also the more indepth, advanced guide looks good, definitely explains how things work. I've yet to try full tunes for cars, but i'll look for one that i'd enjoy /need a tune for. :) Will post a review sorta thing later.
 
Motor City Hami
Looking for obnoxiously bright greens paints like sublime, lime green metalic, Verde Ithaca, Sassy Grass Green, curious yellow, envy, etc. I pretty much only use bright greens, so let me know if you need any other colors.
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I've got a Sassy Grass Green, Lime Green, Vert Citron, LeMans-Grun and quite a few yellows. Any good?
 
I have tuned way more cars than I have had time to post. I thought I would try an interesting test. What would happen if I only posted the LSD settings for the cars that I have been driving lately. Since I believe that the LSD is the super tune, what would happen if you tried only my LSD settins on your suspension tune? How would the car react? Would these LSD settings unlock the car's potential for you or would it ruin an already good tune. Feel free to try any of these and post some feedback.

Current LSD settings (Initial Torque/Accel/Decel):

Premium Cars:
2011 Dale JR #88 @ 15/25/5
Audi R10 Race Car ’09 @ 20/20/15
Challenger RM ’70 @ 7/9/5
Citroen GT Race Car @ 20/20/15
Civic Type R ’08 @ 5/7/5
Corvette Z06 ’04 @ 10/11/7
Corvette ZR1 ’09 @ 7/9/5
Corvette ZR1 RM ’09 @ 15/25/12
Elise 111R ’04 @ 7/30/15
Ferrari 430 Scuderia ’07 @ 15/18/5
Ferrari 458 Italia ’09 @ 12/17/5
Ferrari 512BB ’75 @ 15/15/7
Fiat 500 ’08 @ 7/10/5
Focus St ’06 @ 7/10/5
Ford GT ’06 @ 10/20/12
Ford GT LM Test Car @ 15/35/12
Giulia T22 ’65 @ 10/15/5
Gran Turismo 350Z RS @ 15/20/12
Integra Type R ’04 @ 7/10/5
Integra Type R RM ’04 @ 12/18/5
Mazda 787B Race Car ’91 @ 12/20/12
Mazda Roadster RS ’07 @ 25/15/20
Mini Cooper S ’07 @ 7/8/5
Mustang Mach 1 ’71 @ 10/11/7
Mustang V8 GT Coupe Premium ’07 @ 7/19/5
Peugeot 908 HDI FAP ’10 @ 22/16/12
R8 FSI Quattro ’09 @ front 7/10/5 rear 10/25/15 and TSCD 35/65
Raybrig NSX ’06 @ 10/11/12
Red Bull X2010 @ 45/35/45
RX7 Spirit R Type A ’02 @ 10/25/15
RX-8 ’07 @ 8/10/7
Silva Spec-R Aero RM ’02 @ 10/18/8
Spoon CR-Z @ 7/10/5
Suzuki Cappuccino RM ’95 @ 7/18/7
Suzuki Cervo ’07 @ 7/8/5
Takata Dome NSX ’06 @ 15/25/12
VW Golf IV GTI RM ’01 @ 7/10/5
Zonda R ’09 @ 22/18/15

Standard Cars:
coming soon...
 
Dear Motor City Tunes,

I would just like to say a big thank you for taking the time to help people like me who don't have the knowledge to get the best from tuning.

I have learnt so much from these few pages and having tried some of your quick tunes I am considerably faster than I was previously. Although still slow compared to the majority of GT5 players :-)

I have much more control of each vehicle now and enjoy tweaking the setups to suit my driving style. Although I will never be the fastest and break any records you have increased the pleasure I get from playing a hundred fold.

Many thanks again for being a good guy and sharing your knowledge.

Kind regards,

Rumpy
 
I did spend some time with the Yellow Bird, but wasn't happy with the tune. Sounds like a good project. I think I'll tune it, one change at a time and log the differences that I see in the car and lap times. Seems better than just posting a tune. Already improved the car 3.5 seconds by tuning Camber and LSD.
 

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