Murcielago vs Aventador?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Sputnik
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RageVSFury
That's not a comparison m8,as the Murcielago has been tweaked with parts lol.
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I see no reason why you just HAVE to compare stock to stock... For reasons of your own you can bring them closer to "even" if you feel need be, for your own liking/science project.

I find this discussion interesting because I am in limbo about buying the DLC pack and like to hear what people say about it before I throw my hard earned money at a game. To bad it was derailed before it began.

Back on subject.. When you slightly tuned the LP670 to keep up with the LP700 were the performance points(pp) the same?..

Reason I asked is because 99 out of 100 races I race now are governed by the pp system and on a circuit(with turns)... & For my case I see no reason why stock vs. stock would yield me the information I'm most desiring, more than two cars lightly tuned to the same pp would(it would be a better comparison for your audience, in this case, me... As I'm WAY more likely to be driving two cars tuned to the same pp vs. the two cars in stock fashion). Anyone else share my interest?
 
If these were serious cars built with the track in mind then I'd understand the discussion concerning why the cars are so similar. But at the end of the day, they are just Lambos. Not exactly built for the track, they're just two fast cars with the same ideal and business goal in mind. The cars are pretty much the same as each other stock. Audi's main concern with Lambo at the moment is business, not lap times.

Edit - why test the handling of some of the worst handling cars out there?
 
Pagey279
He made the power outputs fairly similar to test the HANDLING, this thread is not about power and straight line speed, its how they fair in the corners against each other. And you need similar power levels to do this.
From what i understand
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I would agree if he didn't mention the lap times. Telling everyone lap times doesn't say anything about how a car handles. He didn't say anything about how the cars handling compared to one another.
 
after running both on the ring i can definitely agree that the Aventador is more stable, with stock suspension it understeers like crazy though, it doesn't have that feeling of wanting to kill you like the Murcielago either. i actually beat my Black Edition time in the Aventador by 3 seconds, and 8 seconds faster than the Murcielago SV mainly because it's a little more comfortable at high speeds and you can take more risks with it.
 
devildog666
You added 40-50hp. That makes a big difference at Spa.
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The difference is 0.4 tenths of a second on a lap.

Pagey279
He made the power outputs fairly similar to test the HANDLING, this thread is not about power and straight line speed, its how they fair in the corners against each other. And you need similar power levels to do this.
From what i understand
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👍

GTPEarthbound
I see no reason why you just HAVE to compare stock to stock... For reasons of your own you can bring them closer to "even" if you feel need be, for your own liking/science project.

I find this discussion interesting because I am in limbo about buying the DLC pack and like to hear what people say about it before I throw my hard earned money at a game. To bad it was derailed before it began.

Back on subject.. When you slightly tuned the LP670 to keep up with the LP700 were the performance points(pp) the same?..

Reason I asked is because 99 out of 100 races I race now are governed by the pp system and on a circuit(with turns)... & For my case I see no reason why stock vs. stock would yield me the information I'm most desiring, more than two cars lightly tuned to the same pp would(it would be a better comparison for your audience, in this case, me... As I'm WAY more likely to be driving two cars tuned to the same pp vs. the two cars in stock fashion). Anyone else share my interest?
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I'll look it up and post it here tomorrow!

crcn11
If these were serious cars built with the track in mind then I'd understand the discussion concerning why the cars are so similar. But at the end of the day, they are just Lambos. Not exactly built for the track, they're just two fast cars with the same ideal and business goal in mind. The cars are pretty much the same as each other stock. Audi's main concern with Lambo at the moment is business, not lap times.

Edit - why test the handling of some of the worst handling cars out there?
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This "worst handling car" is on top of the TopGear board, passing Veyoron SS! Yes, they're not track build, but none of those are. Check the video i posted in OP, Aventador has nothing of his predecessor, it's a whole new Lambo!

devildog666
I would agree if he didn't mention the lap times. Telling everyone lap times doesn't say anything about how a car handles. He didn't say anything about how the cars handling compared to one another.
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Not sure if you serious...

But if you look closer on my OP, you will see where i stated that there is no difference in handling between the two, at least for me.
 
Sputnik
This "worst handling car" is on top of the TopGear board, passing Veyoron SS! Yes, they're not track build, but none of those are. Check the video i posted in OP, Aventador has nothing of his predecessor, it's a whole new Lambo!
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One of the worst handling cars done well in the hands of some of the least competent automotive testers in the world... right. Doesn't really prove anything against Audi's business plan.
 
Sputnik
But if you look closer on my OP, you will see where i stated that there is no difference in handling between the two, at least for me.
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Handling/driving feel is not a number (Think 1980's Corvettes - rubbish despite generating 1G of lateral grip).

crcn11
One of the worst handling cars done well in the hands of some of the least competent automotive testers in the world... right. Doesn't really prove anything against Audi's business plan.
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Least competent? The Stig is a racing driver! Who would you nominate to set the lap time? Beyond that I have no idea what you are trying to say.
 
I've bought 4 so far (haven't cashed in the ticket yet - ocd or what?) and tuned 1 to the max for the latest 650pp seasonal. It looks great with the aero parts but seems to understeer more than the Muci does. Probably going to play around with the torque split settings.
 
To make it scientific, you need to rule out the possibility that you simply had a bloody good run in the Murcielago. This means that you can't just refer to your fastest lap time, you need to compare all the laps and make an average. Also, remove, say, the best 10% and worst 10% of the lap times. Then you can make a rough comparison. So, do 10 laps in each car, remove the best and worst lap for each car, then calculate an average lap time for the remaining laps.

Also, Spa may be a long track, but it consists mostly of long straights. And as you tuned the cars to be roughly the same horsepower (15 bhp difference = nothing) you can expect them to be roughly as fast. I suggest you go for a track with more corners, and preferably a smaller track so you can do those 10 laps fairly quick. Top Gear test track, or Autumn Ring, perhaps?

Also, the Top Gear times that is being referred to, 2.5 seconds, that is compared to a stock Murcielago, so that has nothing to do with your test.
 
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Sputnik
Not that i'm complaining about Aventador, i love the way it is, but!

Testing both cars i get ruffly the same lap times, i hope you're aware of Aventadors new suspension technology and that it is much better than Murcielago handling wise!

Testing on SPA with a bit tuned Murcielago LP640 to 699HP i lap 2.16.5xx and with stock Aventaror with 715HP i lap 2.16.3xx (the gap within a margin of error, so i would say they are the same), cosidering 15HP difference and Aventador being 100 kilos lighter, i thought it would be a larger gap. Also physically, Aventador does not feel any sharper in turns than Murcielago!

Note: Muscielago was tuned to match Aventadoe's power, for handling test only!

What do you think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyF-8Bkn6JI
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To the OP: what tires were you using? Looking at the time- in the 2:16 suggests that it's not Sports Hard and possibly even Racing tires.

If it's Racing tires, what you've done is to remove any apparent handling characteristic of either cars. Any disadvantage the LP640 might have had or any advantage the LP700 had over the LP640 becomes less apparent due to the higher grip of the Racing compound.

Try comparing these two cars again- even with the increased HP on the LP640- but instead of using Racing tires, stick with Sports Hard. I'm willing to bet that you'll see a more pronounced difference between these two cars.

And eran004 brought up a great suggestion. Another great thing about shorter track is that you'll get a more consistent time- less time/distance to make mistake.
 
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GT5 physics, even if they seems pretty real-life ish arent actually. There's a lot of parameter missing in GT5 that they can't really emulate now. I mean cars of the 80's 90's very pretty easy, a suspension, some wheel, a motor and that was about it. Now we have computer's controlling every movement your car do and correct it, suspensions are controlled individually by computer, Abs have 10 different way of working depending on the car you have etc.. This is very hard to emulate on a game, I would even say impossible atm.
So yeah no wonder it doesnt stick exactly. Beside PD always said it took them lots of time to create premium car, yet in 1 month they made 4 new premium. I guess we can assume that they reuse some old physics and implant them in the car.
Anyone tried the same things wiht the new GTR ? I know they updated the computer and that it's supposed to handle even better in corner now (they test the new GT-R35 on Best Motors TV the new best motoring but on TV this time).
 
RX-7_FD3S
GT5 physics, even if they seems pretty real-life ish arent actually. There's a lot of parameter missing in GT5 that they can't really emulate now. I mean cars of the 80's 90's very pretty easy, a suspension, some wheel, a motor and that was about it. Now we have computer's controlling every movement your car do and correct it, suspensions are controlled individually by computer, Abs have 10 different way of working depending on the car you have etc.. This is very hard to emulate on a game, I would even say impossible atm.
So yeah no wonder it doesnt stick exactly. Beside PD always said it took them lots of time to create premium car, yet in 1 month they made 4 new premium. I guess we can assume that they reuse some old physics and implant them in the car.
Anyone tried the same things wiht the new GTR ? I know they updated the computer and that it's supposed to handle even better in corner now (they test the new GT-R35 on Best Motors TV the new best motoring but on TV this time).
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In one month they *released* 4 premiums

who knows how long they were working on it..
 
Don't know if it was mentioned above but, The Aventador would be fairly compared to a standard Murcielago, not the SV Murcielago because thats a lightened, more powerful version, which would be the same as the Aventador. Wait until an Aventador SV comes out, then you'll see the difference.
 
I thought the Aventador was a substantial improvment from my first drive of it. With minimal tuning it seemed to be just as quick as a the SV Murc. that I had spend a huge amount of time on. I also think comparing them stock is a waste of time because you will not be driving them stock. Compare them as you would race them, HP-wieght or PP. Determine for yourself which is quicker in each reg setting. I'm fairly sure it will be the Aventador for me. The SV Murc. seems to be a little too sensitive to its MR layout, the Aventador is much more neutral and thus easier to drive, to me.

Also I thought the stock Aventador diff settings were very good as far as default setting go.
 
seanneedscar
In one month they *released* 4 premiums

who knows how long they were working on it..
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I would say around 6 months or less.. Given the fact that most of them are 2012 models..
 
Sputnik
2.5 seconds on a such a small track is a HUGE difference! Spa is almost twice the distance and lets double that 2.5 seconds, what do we get? 4-5 seconds!?



Buddy,this is not a straight line speed discussion
:D


I certainly will
after i finish writing this, just to put an end to all those trolling!


Yes, HP affects handling, but by gaining HP handling degrade, not improve.
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Why don't you test on a track that favours handling vs. speed? Handling doesn't have much of an effect at Spa. Why not do it at a track with more corners, and fewer straights...
 
GTPEarthbound
I see no reason why you just HAVE to compare stock to stock... For reasons of your own you can bring them closer to "even" if you feel need be, for your own liking/science project.

I find this discussion interesting because I am in limbo about buying the DLC pack and like to hear what people say about it before I throw my hard earned money at a game. To bad it was derailed before it began.

Back on subject.. When you slightly tuned the LP670 to keep up with the LP700 were the performance points(pp) the same?..

Reason I asked is because 99 out of 100 races I race now are governed by the pp system and on a circuit(with turns)... & For my case I see no reason why stock vs. stock would yield me the information I'm most desiring, more than two cars lightly tuned to the same pp would(it would be a better comparison for your audience, in this case, me... As I'm WAY more likely to be driving two cars tuned to the same pp vs. the two cars in stock fashion). Anyone else share my interest?
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Totally, why those few numb nuts at the start couldn't comprehend that is beyond me!

Tested them at same power ~ with stock suspension and same tyres on SPA and you would think the Aventador would beat the murci by 3 or 4 seconds especially as its 100kg heavier with inferior suspension and gearbox?

With ya Sputnik!
 
I think you are right on one thing, the Aventador handles way better Murcielago regardless of adding parts or not. Now 3 out of 7 Lambos are drivable. LOL!
 
I made a comparison test on Suzuka, testing a Murcielago SV and the new Aventador, both stock, no tuning. They just run the same, I got very similar lap times for both cars.
 
Lloyd87
I made a comparison test on Suzuka, testing a Murcielago SV and the new Aventador, both stock, no tuning. They just run the same, I got very similar lap times for both cars.
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Same here also.

When both are fully tuned (settings too) I seem to run a few tenths of seconds faster lap times with Murcielago SV on tracks that need more handling than speed.

Aventador is a little bit easier to control thou in my opinion (but not faster).
 
Aventador is better, sure you have a point, but the point is you added HP to one, which changes the handling as well as the accel out of the turns so time comparsion is pointless, do this with with 2 new ones (Untouched) or do the same thing to both, I would but cant afford the car pack :(
 
Not to mention, TC on 5 dampens the Murci's Insane tail happiness.... Re-do the test, both stock, both on Sport hard tyres, TC on 0 around Tsukuba. That should provided nice accurate results.
 
Agrees with Nismo, anyone tried the Largo on the Spa time trial? (I Refuse to be like everyone else, WILL NOT use that dang road car LOL)
 
Murcie SV is more playful and lethal of the two. Aventador feels like it's holding your hand and catching you when you're about to plant your face into the wall.. So, Murcie for me.
 
Proper test: I took both the Aventador and the Murcie around Tsukuba, both full stock. 4 laps each (1 warm-up, 3 timed) no aids (ABS @ 1). Here are the results.

Aventador:
Lap 2) 1:00.813
Lap 3) 1:00.781
Lap 4) 1:01.139

Murcie:
Lap 2) 1:01.532
Lap 3) 1:01.491
Lap 4) 1:01.600

Conclusion: Aventador has better handling. Any complaints?
 

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