My 1993 Corvette! Post 280. Pics included.

[1X83Z]

Nah, you're just insecure.

Trust me, if I was insecure I wouldn't be driving the woman-mobile itself. This being the follow-up car to a Volvo sedan, mind you.

As long as he doesn't get it in burgundy

 

[High-Test]

C43 is MUCH more reliable. I wouldn't touch a 6-cylinder AMG (32 and 36)... I'd be all over an 8-cylinder though (43 and 55). BTW if it is the first C36 then it's actually the very first AMG full-vehicle ever sold in the USA, since the C36 was AMG's first full vehicle... I'd be very surprised if that were true.

Wha...?

So, the tuning completely throws everything the I6 stands for out the window? It can't be that bad..

Doug is being insecure on the 986. Then again, I drive a German ex-mommymobile.

 

[Heldenzeit]

Girls like chick-cars.

 

[1X83Z]

Girls like chick-cars.

Tru dat

 

[Tornado]

BTW if it is the first C36 then it's actually the very first AMG full-vehicle ever sold in the USA

Hammer?

Don't you feel like the 986 is a tad womanly?

I thought the 986 was the poseurs' Porsche, and the Cayenne was the woman's Porsche?

 

[1X83Z]

Hammer?

Not in USA

I thought the 986 was the poseurs' Porsche, and the Cayenne was the woman's Porsche?

Either way...

 

[YSSMAN]

Meh. "Woman's Porsche" or not, the Boxster still gives off 90% of the thrills that you'd receive otherwise. I'd be voting for a silver body and a brown top, but I don't know if they made that kind of combo available all those years ago.

But then I get to thinking...

There is a late-80s, early 90s 911 out there somewhere...

 

[McLaren]

Don't you feel like the 986 is a tad womanly? I mean this is coming from a man driving the womanliest German car in history. But as a prospective used Porsche owner, I'm not even considering the 986 on the grounds that it's pretttttty feminine.

Don't come to Plano, then.

 

[Heldenzeit]

[/QUOTE]There is a late-80s, early 90s 911 out there somewhere...[/QUOTE]


....that has over 100k miles and is missing its radio and needs a new engine.

What about this?

This car would be easier to maintain being FR and cheaper to buy parts for than a 986. It dosent look too bad either. Probably fairly decent on gas and it is still sporty. I drove a Z3 and loved it; would'nt this be better?

 

[Duke]

Don't you feel like the 986 is a tad womanly?

My boss (a man) has a new Boxster, and having ridden in it and driven it, I don't find it feminine at all. It's a hoot to drive, even as a non-S.

 

[///M-Spec]

What about this?

This car would be easier to maintain being FR and cheaper to buy parts for than a 986. It dosent look too bad either. Probably fairly decent on gas and it is still sporty. I drove a Z3 and loved it; would'nt this be better?

If you loved the Z3 then the Z4 will blow your mind. The Z3 was a dynamically flawed car that was saved by its good looks. The E85 has a much stiffer body, a proper multi-link rear suspension and more aggressive suspension tuning. It is also much better balanced than even the Z3 M.

That being said, early Z4s have drawn their share of criticisms too. They are BMW's first generation of RFT cars, so the ride is harsh and pretty 'crashy'. The electric power steering, another BMW production first, is not as natural as a traditional rack. Early interiors also have a somewhat cheap air about them despite being a ~40k car new.

That being said, early 986 interiors were way, way worse.. steering was excessively heavy.. and the car needed the (rare) P51/M030 sport package to really shine. And your assumption on maintenance costs are mostly correct. E85s use lots of parts from the 3-series so you have the economy of scale working for you there.

IMO, if it came down between an early E85 ('03-05) and mid-run ('99-02) 986, price and mileage about equal, I'd probably go for a 986 P51 if I could find one. If you like the E85, I'd recommend fixing the RFT issue by simply dumping them for real tires. Good tires will transform a base (non-M) Z4.

Facelifted E85s (2006+) are a different story and go a long way to address the short-comings of the early cars, but are unfortunately out of your price range.

BTW, I have an E85 so if you have any questions, I may be able to help you out.


M

 

[YSSMAN]

What about this?

This car would be easier to maintain being FR and cheaper to buy parts for than a 986. It dosent look too bad either. Probably fairly decent on gas and it is still sporty. I drove a Z3 and loved it; would'nt this be better?

There is one fatal flaw to your aspirations of owning a German convertible:

Despite being just on the fringe of what you can afford, the Mazdaspeed Miata will offer 9/10ths of the thrills while also being more reliable, cheaper to insure, and more fuel efficent as well. You'd have to be looking pretty hard to get one for $15K at the moment, but even then, "settling" for your "average" Miata LS of the same era isn't like going home with a parting gift.

But, that is going with an older generation. You can likely find a current generation (MY2006+) MX-5 for the same price. Personally speaking, I've got a bit of a soft spot for these ones too.

Dynamically, no, they're not as "sharp" as their predecessors, but I think you're going to find a more German-like trade off in ride, quality, performance, etc.

If I'm shopping for a roadster, and this may just be me, I'm really only shopping at the Mazda dealer.

 

[Heldenzeit]

Thanks for the info on the Z4, I will look more closely into those.

As for the Miata, those are WAY too feminine for my taste and I'm not at all interested in Japanese cars. But maybe a test drive would change my mind.

Here's a Mazdaspeed

 

[YSSMAN]

I've driven the origional NA Miatas, and I find them quite enjoyable. I've never been in an NB model (that's what the Mazdaspeed was), but I understand them to be a bit more forgiving... And in the end, likely a better daily driver.

As for the Miata being "feminine," I think you're selling yourself way too short. You could say the same thing about my Celica, but I personally don't care. If the car looks and drives well, it looks and drives well... It shouldn't matter if it's girly or not. I only see old housewives driving A4s, and Doug seems to get along fine with his.

(ha!)

 

[///M-Spec]

There is one fatal flaw to your aspirations of owning a German convertible:

As a former Miata owner, I would recommend them to anyone.

But if you're positioning a Miata as a serious alternative to a Boxster or Z4 (or an S2000 or 350Z Roadster), then I couldn't disagree more.

Yes, they are fun. Light, agile, simple and pure.

But drive either of the Germans and you can tell within a few hundred feet they are in another category all together when it comes to refinement, solidity, comfort and luxury features.

Simple example:

Mash the throttle in a Miata and you get the same reedy sounding 4 banger buzz you would hear in a typical subcompact... meanwhile the shifter buzzes so violently in your right hand you'd think it could cut particle board if you put a Dremel attachment to the end of it.

Mash the throttle in a Boxster and you get pure music. Or a glorious straight-six howl in the Z4. All the 'contact areas' like the shifter and steering tingle with feedback, but much better controlled and more civilized than the Mazda.

If it sounds like I'm bashing the MX-5, I'm not. I'm trying to put the car into realistic perspective. The Miata is a wonderful car for the price point in which it lives. And yes, it is nearly as much fun to drive.

But there are certain things you get with one and certain things you don't. It's the reason why Porsche gets twice as much dough for a Boxster and it's not because you can order colored wheel crests or matching seat belts.

Despite being just on the fringe of what you can afford, the Mazdaspeed Miata will offer 9/10ths of the thrills

This is debatable and it partially depends on precisely what you're looking for. I'd say closer to 8/10ths.

while also being more reliable,

Also debatable. Miata parts and labor are cheaper, yes. But reliability?

cheaper to insure,

You sure about that? In an apples to apples comparison?

and more fuel efficent as well.

This is just plain wrong.

Mazdaspeed Miata: 20/26
BMW Z4 2.5i: 20/28
Porsche Boxster 2.7: 20/28

If I'm shopping for a roadster, and this may just be me, I'm really only shopping at the Mazda dealer.

Have you ever driven a Boxster or Z4?


M

 

[Heldenzeit]

Thats great info M, thanks. I have driven a 986 and a Z3, but not a Z4. The 986 is amazing and is still at the top of my list right now. The Z3 was great too but I didnt get to drive it that far. My dad drove a Miata and although he said that it was a great drive, I would be too tall to fit comfortably in it (I'm 6'1).

This would be good. Good power, FR, manual, awesome color combo, and I would fit it it well.

 

[///M-Spec]

Thats great info M, thanks.

No problem.

This would be good. Good power, FR, manual, awesome color combo, and I would fit it it well.

Looks nice. Only 2 problems I can think of.

1- For MY2001, all 3-series had a new, (very) overboosted steering setup that was universally hated by fans. This was revised at some point in MY2002 at least once. But most '01s have that Buick steering feel. I would drive an '01 back to back with a '99-00 or '03+ just so you understand what you'd be giving up if choosing a 2001.

2- This car does not have the Sports Package (ZSP). Not a huge deal, since coupes automatically come with ZSP suspension tuning, but you are missing out on wider wheels/tires and the excellent ZSP seats. Again, I would compare the standard vs. ZSP seats so you are familiar with the differences.

I would personally hold out on a ZSP model just for the sport seats.. they are that much better than the regular ones.


M

 

[Heldenzeit]

Awesome info again, I'll keep looking.

 

[LoudMusic]

S2000 hands down.

2000 - 2001 plastic rear window
2002 - 2008 glass rear window

2000 - 2003 2L 9k RPM redline 237HP 156TQ
2004 - 2008 2.2L 8k RPM redline 237HP 167TQ

2006 - 2008 Traction control, with switch
2008 Tire pressure gauge, etc etc

Those are the important bits. If I were you I'd get an '02 or '03 with less than 50,000 miles. Surely you can find that.

I have an '06. It's a blast, and a great daily driver. There is also an incredible community for S2000 owners.

Also, you specified "roadster", so I figure that's pretty important. I only scanned this thread, but the only roadsters I've seen in the list are Miatas and S2000s. Everything else is a touring convertible, in my opinion. Go drive some cars - see what you think. The S2000 is the most fun, guaranteed.

 

[///M-Spec]

Also, you specified "roadster", so I figure that's pretty important. I only scanned this thread, but the only roadsters I've seen in the list are Miatas and S2000s. Everything else is a touring convertible, in my opinion. Go drive some cars - see what you think. The S2000 is the most fun, guaranteed.

What makes the S2000 and Miata "roadsters", but the Boxster and Z4 not roadsters


M

 

[Heldenzeit]

S2000's are great. A friend of mine has one. When I rode in it, it felt quick and handled great, but she didnt let me drive it. I can imagine insurance being terrible on those cars. 156 lb ft of torque? Is that a joke? Sure it has horseopwer but where is the torque? They must be light enough to make up for it though.

But I really dont have any interest in Japanese cars.

I do believe that a roadster by definition is any two seat car without a roof.986, Z4, Z3, MX5, S2000, and Ferrari F430 all qualify.

 

[YSSMAN]

This is debatable and it partially depends on precisely what you're looking for. I'd say closer to 8/10ths.

I debated going down to that rate... But nitpicks aside, it is a cheap alternative that holds up pretty well.

Also debatable. Miata parts and labor are cheaper, yes. But reliability?

The turbo model is likely going to have a few more issues, but certainly, I believe the NA model's reliability generally goes unquestioned in terms of sports cars.

You sure about that? In an apples to apples comparison?

The Miata was cheaper to insure than my Jetta and my Celica, so that leads me to believe that it is cheaper than the Porsche and BMW. Now that I think of it, however, the S2000 wasn't much more than the Miata...

This is just plain wrong.

Mazdaspeed Miata: 20/26
BMW Z4 2.5i: 20/28
Porsche Boxster 2.7: 20/28

Whoops... Silly me. I tend to think of the standard NA and NB models most of the time. Not that they are loads better, but still, do well for a sports car.

Have you ever driven a Boxster or Z4?

Sadly, I haven't. I should try and see where the Celica can get me these days...

I've been in a few Z3s, however, and that always felt like an overdone Miata.

 

[///M-Spec]

I have a lot of seat time in S2000s; a very good friend of mine back in Florida used to have one. We even traded cars for the day from time to time. I enjoyed driving his stook very much; they are exemplary sports cars with only minor flaws and I would recommend them highly.

... I'm just not sure why LM thinks an S2k qualifies as a roadster whereas a Boxster does not.

BTW, 156 lb-ft of torque may not sound like a lot, but don't forget gears multiply torque and S2000s have crazy short gearing. It takes getting used to and if you're used to a lot of low-end grunt the S feels anemic at first. But at a full boogie the car scoots fairly well.


M

 

[Heldenzeit]

BTW, 156 lb-ft of torque may not sound like a lot, but don't forget gears multiply torque and S2000s have crazy short gearing. It takes getting used to and if you're used to a lot of low-end grunt the S feels anemic at first. But at a full boogie the car scoots fairly well.

Considering that my Camaro has 100 more lb ft this may be difficult.

 

[mustangGT90210]

Considering that my Camaro has 100 more lb ft this may be difficult.

That won't matter when you hit 9,000 RPM?

 

[Heldenzeit]

That won't matter when you hit 9,000 RPM?

Yeah, I redline at 5500. Its like its a diesel or something.

 

[///M-Spec]

I debated going down to that rate... But nitpicks aside, it is a cheap alternative that holds up pretty well.

Cheap alternative being a pretty key concept. You are getting a great sports car for a modest amount of money. You are not getting a Porsche for half the price.

The turbo model is likely going to have a few more issues, but certainly, I believe the NA model's reliability generally goes unquestioned in terms of sports cars.

I don't question the NA's mechanical soundness. After all, my wife and I put over 40,000 miles on ours and it never missed a beat.

But how familiar are you with 986 and E85 reliability? Have you actually done the research or are you assuming because we're talking about a Porsche and a BMW, that they will break?

I'm not even arguing that they won't break. I'm just wondering if you've got data or is it all just conjecture.

The Miata was cheaper to insure than my Jetta and my Celica, so that leads me to believe that it is cheaper than the Porsche and BMW.

This is not an apples to apples comparison.

Sadly, I haven't.

My recommendation is to try it before drawing any conclusions.

I've been in a few Z3s, however, and that always felt like an overdone Miata.

Isn't that a good thing, then?


M

 

[TopHat]

What about a early model Pontiac Solstice? They're real lookers. 👍 If you could afford it, I'd go for a Z3 or a Boxster.

 

[Joey D]

What about a early model Pontiac Solstice? They're real lookers. 👍 If you could afford it, I'd go for a Z3 or a Boxster.

No they aren't, they are bloated looking. The Sky is the one you need to look at if you want to go down that road...same car just looks a million times better.

 

[Heldenzeit]

And then I could transform it into an Opel GT.