My mom wants a new car.

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YSSMAN
Wait, whats so bad about a $30,000 sedan that does 0-60 in 5.7 seconds (about 4 tenths of a second slower than the Charger R/T), covers the quarter in 14.3 @ 98 MPH, tops-out at 143-150 MPH, pulls .82 on the skidpad, has less understeer than a FWD product should (thanks in part to the "tire trick"), and manages 27 MPG on the highway?
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The fact that it's longer than a Mercedes GL-class?
 
M5Power
The fact that it's longer than a Mercedes GL-class?
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Where did you get that idea?

The length of the GXP (and it's major competitors):

- GXP: 198.3 in
- Charger: 200.1 in
- Taurus: 200.7 in

And the Mercedes?

- GL: 200.3 in

...So I'm wondering where the argument to make it a completely bad car comes in based around these figures...
 
YSSMAN
Where did you get that idea?
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We were discussing the Impala. You said this:

As for the SS, it just kicks ass. I'm surprised our European friends haven't made a big deal about our 300 BHP front-wheel-drive, V8-powered sedan.

Remember?

Now check the length of the Impala and report back on whether it's longer than the biggest German SUV ever sold in the United States.
 
Are you really making a big deal about a tenth of an inch? The taurus is almost half an inch longer! I think this is kinda silly.
 
M5Power
Now check the length of the Impala and report back on whether it's longer than the biggest German SUV ever sold in the United States.
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One tenth of an inch is considered to be a big enough deal to call it a bad car? It isn't even the largest FWD sedan that GM builds...

Again, I'm not sure how this is all that much of an arguement against it, especially when your beloved Taurus ("Fivehundred") is still longer than that...
 
YSSMAN
...As for the SS, it just kicks ass. I'm surprised our European friends haven't made a big deal about our 300 BHP front-wheel-drive, V8-powered sedan. But even then, I like the Pontiac version better... Odd, because I almost always prefer Chevrolet...
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How could they resist this interior?


But the very sexy exterior makes up for it. I like the "old" Pontiac styling that was criticized for being too busy.

Still, even that is nowhere near as bad as the old Impala interior!
 
The interior has always been the big losing point for me with the Grand Prix, however the performance of the car certainly makes up for it overall...

As for the Impala interior:

2007.chevrolet.impala.20092211-E.jpg


I really don't think it is that bad, actually quite nice for a moderately priced car. It isn't as busy as the Pontiac, but it does look a little plain.

It has always been a strange trade-off between the Grand Prix GXP and the Impala SS. Either you get the better handling car with the crappy interior, or the nicer inside but not quite as quick car. Hmmm...

I think if Chevrolet would have followed Pontiac's example of the "tire trick" and stiffened up the suspension just a bit more, it could have been a lot better of a car. It is still the same executive rocket that it should be, but it still isn't exactly the Impala SS...

LONG LIVE THE TRUE SS!

1996.chevrolet.impala.1906-E.jpg


1996.chevrolet.impala.2217-E.jpg
 
Arrrghthd! That interior is enough to make you froth at the mouth and vomit from your bunghole.... :crazy:

On the new Impalas interior - I think the layout is very well thought out, and the Pontiac is much too busy, and a little to driver oriented. Also its ugly as hell. :yuck:
 
YSSMAN
One tenth of an inch is considered to be a big enough deal to call it a bad car?
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You're missing my point. It's HUGE, regardless of how much longer than a G-class it is. That's the reason no-one is buying it. And as for the interior, it's hard to pick a favorite spot to dislike, but I think I'd pick the fact that GM is cost-cutting to the point where the base of the gear selector doesn't actually say the gears ... yet they put a big chrome "Impala" badge on the passenger side dashboard stands out. :rolleyes:
 
M5Power
And as for the interior, it's hard to pick a favorite spot to dislike, but I think I'd pick the fact that GM is cost-cutting to the point where the base of the gear selector doesn't actually say the gears ... yet they put a big chrome "Impala" badge on the passenger side dashboard stands out. :rolleyes:
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It's probably not there because the console shifter is kinda retrofitted, if you get the bench seat there's a column shifter and you don't need an indicator.

Anyways, I'd rather they put it in the cluster but not on the selector rather than on the selector but not in the cluster, as some American cars do. That's annoying.
 
skip0110
It
Anyways, I'd rather they put it in the cluster but not on the selector rather than on the selector but not in the cluster, as some American cars do. That's annoying.
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Have you attempted to move a rented Impala with the console shifter from one garage space to another during heavy snow? Without the gears on the base of the selector it's IMPOSSIBLE.

Hey Chevy, two problems: one, you know most of the sales of this insipid trash heap will be to rental car companies. So make it easy to use for those of us who bought actual cars. Two, for those of us who were forced to own an Impala, presumably as a company car: our eyes will be looking down to pull the selector in the first place. Why not put the gears there?

Engineers. :rolleyes:
 
I don't look down to move the selector, I sort of instinctively rest my hand on it.

I had to look up interior pictures, but yep, a TrailBlazer doesn't have the indicator on the selector, and I've driven my buddies a few times and it never bothered me because the cluster is right there with the indicator. In fact, I never noticed they were missing because I never looked down.

Now, I've also driven a friend's Thunderbird, which has the markings on the selector but not in the dash, and that did bother me.

So I think what we can agree on is that Chevy and Ford should spend the extra $5 and put it in both places so we all can be happy. Or, like you said, just spare us the damn chrome logo and give us an indicator instead.
 
skip0110
I don't look down to move the selector, I sort of instinctively rest my hand on it.
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Even in a rental car?!

So I think what we can agree on is that Chevy and Ford should spend the extra $5 and put it in both places so we all can be happy. Or, like you said, just spare us the damn chrome logo and give us an indicator instead.
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The perfect compromise. Another problem is that the Impala's selector looks disgusting without the gears written there - there's just a lot of really cheap plastic.
 
...A bit more on the Impala:

- The size: The car really isn't that big, and by no means does that dictate sales to the regular public. It is only marginally larger than the extended Epsilon models overall, and beyond that, it isn't the largest car in it's class. But oh well, points are made and not considered, no big deal. If size is the sales killer, it must be what killed the Fivehundred to create the Taurus.

- The gear selector: I'm not certain what the big deal is here either. It becomes obvious that you've never driven a car or truck with a column shifter, where you have to check the dash to find the gear. I do it all the time with the Avalanche, Tahoe, and Envoy (but even then, that has a console shifter). Sure, they aren't marked, but even a prophetic automatic God such as yourself should know the order: PRND... Maybe growing up driving GM vehicles has trained me too much. I wouldn't assume it to be "IMPOSSIBLE" for anyone...

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More on topic:

Keller, I'd give the Caliber and Magnum cautious looks. Many people are won-over by the styling and the capability of the cars but overlook the poor quality of the product overall. Don't let it scare you too much if it still has a warranty on it, but just keep an eye out for issues when you look at them.

...My Aunt has been looking for a new sedan for a while now (similar criteria of your Mom), and we originally looked at the Charger for her. She wasn't too keen on the materials, but she wanted it more for the looks. I've pointed her towards the Aura, and things are looking good on that front, but she has yet to make a decision.

As for the Caliber, despite every inclination that tells me to hate that car, I just can't bring myself to do it. There are so many clever little gizmo's and do-dads to make it appealing that you almost forget about the poor quality... Almost. My problem is that the dashboard sounds hollow (knock on it, you hear it), the plastic feels like 180-grit sandpaper, and the overall size it conveys seems smaller than what you would expect.

...But the cooler in the glove-box, lighted cup holders, the detachable and rechargeable flash lights, and the speakers in the tail-gate make me want to forget that. I can't remember if they put the heated/cooled cup holders in there as well, but I find that feature to be awesome as well.
 
I've sat in all of the cars, they do have interiors just as bad if not worse than the GM interiors are.

I really can't bring myself to hate any DCX product, they just have some really cool stuff in them.


People do buy them for the looks, kinda like in the 70s...
 
Matthew Keller
Why in the hell does any of this matter??? Doug, you really like to argue, don't you? Ever thread you post in, you seem to start an argument! We all know that the interior is full of cheap plastics, and that its long! We get it! You don't like the car.
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Doug and I are just discussing, thats no "argument"...

Plus you touch the shifter every time you drive the car at least twice, I'd imagine it's ergonomics are something you'd care about.

YSSMAN
Keller, I'd give the Caliber and Magnum cautious looks. Many people are won-over by the styling and the capability of the cars but overlook the poor quality of the product overall. Don't let it scare you too much if it still has a warranty on it, but just keep an eye out for issues when you look at them.
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There is a difference between quality and reliability.

I'm not saying the LX cars are reliable (I don't know if they are), but just because they have poor materials quality does not mean that they definitely cannot be reliable (you should be quite familiar with that, being a GM guy ;))

A guy at my work had a 3.5 V6 Charger and he was quite happy with it; and he had a hour commute.
 
skip0110
There is a difference between quality and reliability.

I'm not saying the LX cars are reliable (I don't know if they are), but just because they have poor materials quality does not mean that they definitely cannot be reliable (you should be quite familiar with that, being a GM guy ;))
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Yep, I know what you mean. From what I have read in the various reports on the LX cars is that reliability on the whole is hit and miss. I've heard horrible stories about Chargers and 300's respectively, and yet I've also heard nothing but praise... Kinda similar to most GM products I suppose...

As for the Caliber, I've never heard too many complaints about reliability. Maybe I'm not looking enough at the car, but the resounding complaint has always been the rather poor-quality interior. Ratings on Edmunds seem to be fairly forgiving, but I'm uncertain of how much of that is due to the fact it replaced the rather spotty Neon.

The Caliber sits in the same place as the Avenger inside of my head. I just find the car so hard to love, and yet so hard to hate...
 
Don't know what this costs in the U.S. (or if its even available) but the ultra-cool Alfa Romeo 159 is worth a look.

Alfa_159_1.jpg

alfa-romeo-159-4.jpg


It's not a huge car but it has a decent boot a nice interior and some of the most comfortable seats you will ever find on a car, the centre console is brilliant as well. Even the bottom of the range engines feel fun and sporty and those headlights are amazing.
 
Yeah, I wish that was available here, we dont get Alfas, Fiats, Renault, Citroen, stuff of the like.
 
Flame-returns
Shame, it really is a very good car.
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They're coming later this year I believe, but it is unknown how much they will cost, much less, how widely they will be available for purchase... As of right now they plan on selling them along with the Berera and the 8C through Maserati dealers whilst establishing a small dealer market.

...We'll see what comes of it...
 
Ooooh (!) Really? I'm sure with all of the taxes, it would be around 30 thousand. But you never know.... :D Also, wouldn't there be a thing with Insurance companies thinking that the Alfas are expensive?

Oh man that would be so cool to have in the driveway.... :drool:

Now, whats the deal with a Suzuki Forenza wagon, besides the fact that they are underpowered?

My friend has one, its alright on the inside.
 
Matthew Keller
Ooooh (!) Really? I'm sure with all of the taxes, it would be around 30 thousand. But you never know.... :D Also, wouldn't there be a thing with Insurance companies thinking that the Alfas are expensive?
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Doesn't matter - it's not happening anyway.
 
Wasn't the 8C supposed to be here this year?
 
As much as it pains me to admit it, I doubt that Alfa will return until Maserati redesigns the 4200GT, at least.
Though, in the defense of the 8C, I don't think it has been sold anywhere else either.
 
Matthew Keller
Now, whats the deal with a Suzuki Forenza wagon, besides the fact that they are underpowered?

My friend has one, its alright on the inside.
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I believe most things I have heard has been lukewarm, as it is neither an outstandingly good car, nor an outstandingly bad car. You kinda get the feeling with the majority of the Suzuki lineup, decently good, but not great.

For the amount of money you would pay for a decent model, you're only a few-hundred dollars out of the ballpark for a brand-new Ford Foucs, which IMO is miles better despite being nearly ten years old.

...In the small-wagon game, there are better options for similar amounts of money. The HHR and Mazda3 come to mind, as well as the Scion xA and Jeep Patriot.
 
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