- 3,009
- You're crazy if you think
- I can afford either of these.
Have you ridden it yet? Does it being 650 seem at all daunting for a beginner?
My Ninja 650R
- Thread starter Time_Attack
- 102 comments
- 9,867 views
- 5,428
- Midship_Express
Only in my driveway so far. I'm taking it slow and trying to learn the clutch and brakes. Size wise it feels fine. Not heavy or light. I'll probably take it around the block a few times or something later.
- 3,204
- 2.2L Camry
- NissanSkylineN1
- Xbox??? Who is this Xbox??
Do you guys have Kawasaki 400Rs in the USA? Seems like a good begginers bike.
- 5,428
- Midship_Express
I don't think so. We have 250s, 500s and 650s.
So I rode it around the block for about 45 minutes. Riding in a straight line is easy. I tried a little counter steering which felt odd because I still need to learn how to balance myself. My biggest problem is learning clutch and brake control while doing low speed 180s. It feels like there is so much going on at once. I keep putting the wrong foot down. I know you should put the left foot down so you can cover the rear brake but I find I'm trying to put it in gear so I drop the right leg.
So I rode it around the block for about 45 minutes. Riding in a straight line is easy. I tried a little counter steering which felt odd because I still need to learn how to balance myself. My biggest problem is learning clutch and brake control while doing low speed 180s. It feels like there is so much going on at once. I keep putting the wrong foot down. I know you should put the left foot down so you can cover the rear brake but I find I'm trying to put it in gear so I drop the right leg.
- 5,677
- United Kingdom
- Dragonistic
Try figure of 8s when you're slow riding after you've got a U turn down. Challenge yourself to see how tight you can figure 8 without putting a foot down and it won't take to long to get the balance and clutch control sorted out (I don't even need the rear brake for control anymore and I can go at an absolute crawl without losing balance, just comes with practice). Once you're on the move it's so easy, quite literally like riding a bike but with less physical effort.
As for the foot thing, I just have issues because I'm naturally right footed so I want to support myself on that foot. Just as in a car when learning to drive get all the gear changes done earlier then you may need and you can then worry about which foot you're putting down because nothing else is on your mind. Once again there will come a point where your balance is so good you can leave both feet on the pegs for short standstills, but for now don't rush yourself with anything.
The only other thing I would worry about is the motorcyclists sixth sense you'll want to develop as soon as possible, once you're comfortable with the controls of the motorcycle its extremely important to teach yourself to be hyper-aware of your surroundings and the road environment. In my experience in the UK this is usually where alot of new riders come unstuck because they get lazy or over-confident because the actual mechanics of riding are fairly simple.
As for the foot thing, I just have issues because I'm naturally right footed so I want to support myself on that foot. Just as in a car when learning to drive get all the gear changes done earlier then you may need and you can then worry about which foot you're putting down because nothing else is on your mind. Once again there will come a point where your balance is so good you can leave both feet on the pegs for short standstills, but for now don't rush yourself with anything.
The only other thing I would worry about is the motorcyclists sixth sense you'll want to develop as soon as possible, once you're comfortable with the controls of the motorcycle its extremely important to teach yourself to be hyper-aware of your surroundings and the road environment. In my experience in the UK this is usually where alot of new riders come unstuck because they get lazy or over-confident because the actual mechanics of riding are fairly simple.
- 5,428
- Midship_Express
I don't have much room to practice in my area. I'm not good enough to ride it the short distance down the road to the park yet. I was trying the 180s on some low traffic streets near my house. This turned out to be a bad idea as I managed to drop it already which scuffed the mirror bottom. More harm to my pride than anything as I was barely moving. Next time perhaps I'll have more room.
- 5,014
- Panama City, FL
Get the clutch down before you try too much slow-speed turning.
Take an MSF Basic Rider course. It may be a requirement for licensing anyway, but even if it's not, cough up the fee (if any) and take it.
Counter-steering is not something you should consciously be learning. To start a left turn, push the left bar. To start a right turn, push the right bar. That actually handles the counter steering for you; just push the bar on the side you want to go towards.
Before you start doing figure-8s and u-turns, simply see how far you can go in a straight line at walking speed or less. When in the friction zone (clutch slipping) your speed control is the clutch, not the throttle. Until you get that, the turns will not happen. Less slip for more speed, more slip to slow down, with very little throttle adjustment.
Don't abuse the clutch with really high engine speed while running the friction zone. You don't need 5000 RPM! At reasonable RPMs the oil bath will keep the clutch cool enough to keep it safe. The friction zone is why bike clutches have 7 or 8 discs and live in oil.
Then when you start doing turns, tight turns are with the bike pushed way down, you sitting up, steering all the way over, and your head has to be looking across the circle. Don't look at the front wheel, you'll follow it down into the ground every time. Turn your head 90 degrees and look at the point you want to reach. That point moves as you turn, so keep your head sideways.
Of course, if you took the MSF course you'd know all that already.
Take an MSF Basic Rider course. It may be a requirement for licensing anyway, but even if it's not, cough up the fee (if any) and take it.
Counter-steering is not something you should consciously be learning. To start a left turn, push the left bar. To start a right turn, push the right bar. That actually handles the counter steering for you; just push the bar on the side you want to go towards.
Before you start doing figure-8s and u-turns, simply see how far you can go in a straight line at walking speed or less. When in the friction zone (clutch slipping) your speed control is the clutch, not the throttle. Until you get that, the turns will not happen. Less slip for more speed, more slip to slow down, with very little throttle adjustment.
Don't abuse the clutch with really high engine speed while running the friction zone. You don't need 5000 RPM! At reasonable RPMs the oil bath will keep the clutch cool enough to keep it safe. The friction zone is why bike clutches have 7 or 8 discs and live in oil.
Then when you start doing turns, tight turns are with the bike pushed way down, you sitting up, steering all the way over, and your head has to be looking across the circle. Don't look at the front wheel, you'll follow it down into the ground every time. Turn your head 90 degrees and look at the point you want to reach. That point moves as you turn, so keep your head sideways.
Of course, if you took the MSF course you'd know all that already.
- 5,428
- Midship_Express
I've reserved a spot next month but I still have to pay for it. Its only $20 but you have to print off the entry and pay by check through the mail which is a pain.
My issue with counter steering is how do you know how much to push on it and what do you do mid corner if you need to adjust? I can wrap my head around the idea for changing lanes and such but say I'm doing 40mph and need to make a turn?
My issue with counter steering is how do you know how much to push on it and what do you do mid corner if you need to adjust? I can wrap my head around the idea for changing lanes and such but say I'm doing 40mph and need to make a turn?
- 8,100
- Guelph, Ontario
I had only heard of counter steering about a year ago, I just lean in and turn.
You'll just have to practice and get some experiance under your leathers.
For turning I just look into the corner and lean the bike in, my body automatically does all of this so called "countersteering" for me, it'll take time but all you need is to work your way up in speed.
Like a bicycle but heavier.
You'll just have to practice and get some experiance under your leathers.
For turning I just look into the corner and lean the bike in, my body automatically does all of this so called "countersteering" for me, it'll take time but all you need is to work your way up in speed.
Like a bicycle but heavier.
- 5,428
- Midship_Express
I haven't ridden a bicycle in over 10 years. Right about the time I got my drivers license. Funny that... It never went fast enough for me to worry about it either. 
I'm mostly worried about giving it too much or not enough and falling off the thing.
I'm mostly worried about giving it too much or not enough and falling off the thing.
- 5,014
- Panama City, FL
How much do you push on it? Really? You push until the bike's turning like you want. 
That's like asking how much do you turn the wheel in a car? How far do you move your leg when you walk? How wide do you open your mouth when you eat? The answer in each case is the amount you need.
You're thinking too much.
The bike goes towards the bar you push. If you're not turning enough, push more. If you're turning too hard, push the other bar to ease up. You're not actually steering except at very low speed. Past walking speed the bike turns by leaning, and the lean is initiated by pushing the bar.
Don't pay attention to how far it's leaning. The lean angle doesn't matter at all! If you're looking through the turn correctly, you can't even tell how far the bike is leaned.
The bike also follows your eyes. You whould be looking through a turn before you even start the turn. The MSF course actually breaks it into four distinct motions: slow; look; turn; gas. the instructor will want to see your head turned before the bike turns. Notice the first step is slow. The start of the turn should be the slowest speed the bike reaches in the turn. Trying to slow down while turning is BAD.
And your eyes will be well ahead of the bike, not down on the road right in front of the bike. When your eyes are on the road in front of the bike, guess where you'll be? well, you've already said where you were, haven't you?
No braking in slow speed u-turns and eights. Speed control is clutch. More clutch friction for speed, less clutch friction for slow. If you're falling, speed up. If you're going wide, slow down. Some guys drag a little rear brake for parking lot stuff, but just drag, not speed control.
Don't stop and then remember to downshift. You should be shifting down as you slow down, and the bike will already be in first when you stop. You shouldn't shift a stopped bike, anyway. (And NEVER shift a bike with the engine not running!)
When you get to the MSF, you'll be amazed how familiar it all sounds if you've read my posts.
And it might not be a bad idea to just put the thing away until you've been to the MSF. I know how lame that sounds, and how hard it would be to do, but you don't want to teach yourself bad habits. Youtube is full of people who "knew" how to ride motorcycles. Learn on the MSF bikes, and if you drop a bike while learning, let it be one of theirs. They take off the mirror and turn signals because they know it's gonna happen.
(BTW, MSF was nealy $250 here in Florida when I did it, so no whining about the fee.)
That's like asking how much do you turn the wheel in a car? How far do you move your leg when you walk? How wide do you open your mouth when you eat? The answer in each case is the amount you need.
You're thinking too much.
The bike goes towards the bar you push. If you're not turning enough, push more. If you're turning too hard, push the other bar to ease up. You're not actually steering except at very low speed. Past walking speed the bike turns by leaning, and the lean is initiated by pushing the bar.
Don't pay attention to how far it's leaning. The lean angle doesn't matter at all! If you're looking through the turn correctly, you can't even tell how far the bike is leaned.
The bike also follows your eyes. You whould be looking through a turn before you even start the turn. The MSF course actually breaks it into four distinct motions: slow; look; turn; gas. the instructor will want to see your head turned before the bike turns. Notice the first step is slow. The start of the turn should be the slowest speed the bike reaches in the turn. Trying to slow down while turning is BAD.
And your eyes will be well ahead of the bike, not down on the road right in front of the bike. When your eyes are on the road in front of the bike, guess where you'll be? well, you've already said where you were, haven't you?
No braking in slow speed u-turns and eights. Speed control is clutch. More clutch friction for speed, less clutch friction for slow. If you're falling, speed up. If you're going wide, slow down. Some guys drag a little rear brake for parking lot stuff, but just drag, not speed control.
Don't stop and then remember to downshift. You should be shifting down as you slow down, and the bike will already be in first when you stop. You shouldn't shift a stopped bike, anyway. (And NEVER shift a bike with the engine not running!)
When you get to the MSF, you'll be amazed how familiar it all sounds if you've read my posts.
And it might not be a bad idea to just put the thing away until you've been to the MSF. I know how lame that sounds, and how hard it would be to do, but you don't want to teach yourself bad habits. Youtube is full of people who "knew" how to ride motorcycles. Learn on the MSF bikes, and if you drop a bike while learning, let it be one of theirs. They take off the mirror and turn signals because they know it's gonna happen.
(BTW, MSF was nealy $250 here in Florida when I did it, so no whining about the fee.)
- 5,428
- Midship_Express
I was afraid of turning too much and falling over. lol.
Why not shift with it not running? I have been leaving it in first gear when parked. Do you just mean up and down?
Why not shift with it not running? I have been leaving it in first gear when parked. Do you just mean up and down?
- 8,100
- Guelph, Ontario
You can't really shift with it not running.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=244963
I would just leave it in gear when parked so that it doesn't roll away.
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=244963
I would just leave it in gear when parked so that it doesn't roll away.
- 5,428
- Midship_Express
Hm. I've accidentally placed it in 2nd looking for neutral. Otherwise I've never tried that I don't think. Then again I've not had it higher than 3rd gear.
So this counter steering thing. Its just like giving it a quick flick before then turning into the correct direction? Like I said I've only leaned it a little going in a straight line. I'm terrified of leaning it to much and dropping it.
So this counter steering thing. Its just like giving it a quick flick before then turning into the correct direction? Like I said I've only leaned it a little going in a straight line. I'm terrified of leaning it to much and dropping it.
- 8,100
- Guelph, Ontario
I wouldn't flick it, you need to make smooth movements whilst on a bike. A gentle push is all it needs, and after a while you'll be doing it without even realizing.
You need to balance the forces when cornering. The leaning in is opposed by the centrifugal force. Going faster will let you lean in more. But if you go too fast the tires will break traction.
I would recommend trying out a dirtbike in a field and just riding it like you stole it. When you start to slide you can save it easier and even if you do fall it will be at low speeds and on grass.
You need to balance the forces when cornering. The leaning in is opposed by the centrifugal force. Going faster will let you lean in more. But if you go too fast the tires will break traction.
I would recommend trying out a dirtbike in a field and just riding it like you stole it. When you start to slide you can save it easier and even if you do fall it will be at low speeds and on grass.
- 5,428
- Midship_Express
I don't know anyone with a dirt bike. I live in a city about a mile from downtown. That would make sense otherwise. Probably hurt less anyway.
- 5,014
- Panama City, FL
Bike trannies don't have synchronizers, just dogs. A dog is a pin on the side of a gearwheel that engages a hole in the adjacent gearwheel. If the gears aren't rotating when a shift occurs, the dog can be jammed up against a solid part of the next wheel rather than meeting up with a hole to engage, and forcing the issue will bend something, making subsequent shifts unsure.
- 1,467
- Carrollton, GA
- thaSTIGroe
Sounds to me you need to take the motorcycle safety course. Do it at a Harley dealership so you don't have to worry about dropping your bike.
- 5,428
- Midship_Express
I rode the bike again today with much better results. I found that I can get into a small parking lot near my house without getting on a major road so I went there several times and back. I'm getting a lot better I think.
- 2,266
- GTP_Thatman/Thatmanthere
- A Man Hamster
Hey good job man, just keep practicing.👍(but where is the jacket?) If your DMV has the course marked out do what you can to practice there before you take the riding test. Good luck and be safe. If you can read a few books at your local library too.
- 5,428
- Midship_Express
The jackets I looked at all cost more than my helmet ($150) so it may have too wait a check or two.
My local DMV blows. Its tucked away between a discount smoke shop and a Chinese take out joint. I don't know how they do it.
Otherwise my confidence level has gone up 10 fold. I'm not as scared too lean the bike now and I've gotten much better all around.
My local DMV blows. Its tucked away between a discount smoke shop and a Chinese take out joint. I don't know how they do it.
Otherwise my confidence level has gone up 10 fold. I'm not as scared too lean the bike now and I've gotten much better all around.
- 2,266
- GTP_Thatman/Thatmanthere
- A Man Hamster
Well any jacket is better than no jacket. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Xelement-CF...93?pt=US_CSA_MC_Outerwear&hash=item4ab74d5e7d Just an example. Unless you don't mind road rash. But I speak from experience on this jacket subject. Think of it this way, If you imagine yourself riding in the back of a pickup truck, going 5 mph and jump out with a tshirt and shorts your going to get through likely ok. But ramp that up to even 30 mph and jumping from the back isnt so appealing is it?
- 5,428
- Midship_Express
That doesn't look too bad. The one I looked at was a touring master and it was 3x that price.
- 5,014
- Panama City, FL
On the jackets, keep in mind that CE armor is not hard armor, and you want hard armor at least at the elbows, hopefully the shoulders as well. I can't tell from the description if that eBay has hard armor or just the CE foam. Also, leather at the impact points is better (but more expensive) than 100% fabric. The Tour Master you refer to will also have removable liners for cold or wet weather, and has a LOT more reflective material.
- 5,428
- Midship_Express
That same brand on eBay makes another one it's 90$ and looks a little tougher. Thoughts? Ill see if I can find the link. It's black and blue it's called tri tex.
- 5,428
- Midship_Express
