Need For Speed Payback General Discussion

[FT-1]

I've thought about what the NFS franchise could do for a while now, and I really think that it might be best for the series to do another foray onto an Nintendo console much like NFS Nitro was - a game that doesn't fit the normal vision of the NFS franchise, and also help what is pretty much a sagging racing market on the Switch. Plus, it might give developers in the EA system a chance to do the second thing I would like the NFS franchise to do - get away from the cops and criminals and the street racing and introduce a decent idea. Prostreet and The Run were the most maligned NFS games in terms of hype and fan reaction (I certainly remember the many diapers filled that came from Prostreet's reveal) but as they have aged, they've shown to be some of the best ideas the NFS has ever had. Something like that, something that doesn't just rip a page out of the past norms that the NFS series has set, might be beneficial.

Isn't that what Payback tried to do? One could argue it followed in the footsteps of The Run with its emphasis on a Hollywood Action Movie style single player campaign. It also brought dedicated offroading to the mainline series for the first time.

But going forward, I don't think EA will allow Ghost Games to get experimental again after the relatively low user base Payback has compared to 2015 (going by the leaked PS4 player count estimates), so it is safe to assume future titles will be inspired by fondly-remembered titles of the past.

 

[rallymorten]

Prostreet and The Run were the most maligned NFS games in terms of hype and fan reaction (I certainly remember the many diapers filled that came from Prostreet's reveal) but as they have aged, they've shown to be some of the best ideas the NFS has ever had.

There is definitely a point to be had in that ProStreet and The Run are some of the most unique games in the franchise, what with ProStreet dabbling with going legal and being ever-so-slightly more grounded in reality (apart from the occational bouncy suspension, though I'll put that down to the development cycle) and The Run basically being a movie but with added gameplay (..QTEs? Haven't quite decided if I like them or not). Now that I think about it, while I have played ProStreet recently because it's actually quite fun to do silly things like make a Honda Civic that goes ~250 mph or a Pagani Zonda wheelie machine, I haven't played The Run in forever. I guess that solves how to pass time this coming weekend.

I do, however, see a problem with the idea of essentially "rebooting" mainline-NFS for the fourth time: while it does muddy the waters even more in terms of trying to form a coherent identity (though I'd argue this is the 11th hour anyways, so who cares at this point), let's say whatever they do works out quite well. How are they going to handle that success? Are they then going to start an eternity of *that* thing overstaying its welcome and become the "true NFS"? Or will they have to switch it up entirely each and every game, in which case, is there a limit (pun somewhat intended)? No, really, would we be living in a world where Need For Speedboat Paradise (working title, pun and reference (no, not to the Burnout game) all in one) is a thing? I mean, there's only one way to find out..

The great irony in all of this, of course, is that Underground only happened because Black Box wanted to do something radically different. I feel like all sides of the argument can find a good quote in that.

Isn't that what Payback tried to do? One could argue it followed in the footsteps of The Run with its emphasis on a Hollywood Action Movie style single player campaign. It also brought dedicated offroading to the mainline series for the first time.

..while that is kind-of true (and good on you for emphasizing the "mainline" bit when talking of offroading), it's not just about how many new things you implement, but perhaps even more so how well they're implemented. Not only have I expressed my displeasure with everything regarding Payback's story often enough that one could write a book about it, but the offroad physics somehow managed to feel like even more of an afterthought than the entirety of NFS 2015.

To put it into a metaphor, Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom has more species than any other Jurassic movie. That on its own doesn't automatically make it the better movie.

Also, technically one could argue that Payback ripped all its gameplay from the pages of Most Wanted 2012 and, by extension, Burnout Paradise. I'll leave it to your individual interpretations to decide if that constitutes as a "norm".

 

[LeGeNd-1]

Sorry to break up the intense discussion guys, but I may have messed up a little here. So today I finally restored my first derelict (Mustang). When it asks which build I picked Race, but then next question it asks if I want to use the car now and I picked "No". I thought this will just send the car to the warehouse, but it's nowhere to be found in my garage. Not in the main slot, not in the to-be-restored derelict warehouse, not in any build's warehouse. I went to the Race Dealership and all 5 derelicts are there for purchase but are locked until I restored all 5. Does this mean my free Race Mustang is gone? What a 🤬 confusing system.

EDIT: Well after restarting the game, I found my derelict Race Mustang in my garage's warehouse, neatly under the Race tab. Go figure why it's missing in the first instance

 

[vinz7531]

Sorry to break up the intense discussion guys, but I may have messed up a little here. So today I finally restored my first derelict (Mustang). When it asks which build I picked Race, but then next question it asks if I want to use the car now and I picked "No". I thought this will just send the car to the warehouse, but it's nowhere to be found in my garage. Not in the main slot, not in the to-be-restored derelict warehouse, not in any build's warehouse. I went to the Race Dealership and all 5 derelicts are there for purchase but are locked until I restored all 5. Does this mean my free Race Mustang is gone? What a 🤬 confusing system.

Humm strange... my son also lost one of the derelict car. But he had time to use it before it was 'deleted'.

 

[Sage Ages]

Using a peak on lateral tire curves is fine and easy when doing a full-on simulation game. The reason it is not feasible to do in an arcade racer is that most players will play the game with a gamepad. It would not be uncommon for them to use the steering input in a digital manner.

Funny thing about this statement: this is exactly how tire physics in the Blackbox games worked.

Of course to make things a little easier, they give you huge amounts of grip, and did mess with the curves in later games, but they still functioned pretty much the game.

 

[ImaRobot]

Funny thing about this statement: this is exactly how tire physics in the Blackbox games worked.

Of course to make things a little easier, they give you huge amounts of grip, and did mess with the curves in later games, but they still functioned pretty much the game.

I don't understand it really. It wont be implemented because most play with a gamepad? How did all these other games with a much deeper physics engine manage to get it working then? Games like Forza and GT aren't hard to play, in fact, with how dialed in they are, it's really pretty easy to drive in those games. I would say even more so than this arcade game.

 

[rallymorten]

Funny thing about this statement: this is exactly how tire physics in the Blackbox games worked.

I don't understand it really. It wont be implemented because most play with a gamepad? How did all these other games with a much deeper physics engine manage to get it working then? Games like Forza and GT aren't hard to play, in fact, with how dialed in they are, it's really pretty easy to drive in those games. I would say even more so than this arcade game.

It's almost starting to feel like that entire post was concocted specifically to avoid talking about the key issue at hand by taking a leaf out of the politician's playbook. Which, come to think of it, is an apt comparison.

 

[ImaRobot]

It's almost starting to feel like that entire post was concocted specifically to avoid talking about the key issue at hand by taking a leaf out of the politician's playbook. Which, come to think of it, is an apt comparison.

Just throwing a bunch of big words around and hope no one gets what's being said, it seems like.

 

[Silver Arrows]

It's almost starting to feel like that entire post was concocted specifically to avoid talking about the key issue at hand by taking a leaf out of the politician's playbook. Which, come to think of it, is an apt comparison.

Which goes to show that if you aren't willing to be at least honest about the faults of a game you obviously like, then just try and deny that said faults exist.

 

[CleanCut]

It's almost starting to feel like that entire post was concocted specifically to avoid talking about the key issue at hand by taking a leaf out of the politician's playbook. Which, come to think of it, is an apt comparison.

Which goes to show that if you aren't willing to be at least honest about the faults of a game you obviously like, then just try and deny that said faults exist.

What more needs to be said? I believe the "Payback sucks" mantra has been repeated well beyond the point of being the proverbial dead horse. You don't see any other point of view because you choose not to. I've learned the hard way that arguing with someone on the internet is quite possibly the least productive thing I could possibly do with my time. I have a life infinitely more enriching than getting worked up over whether or not someone shares my opinion of a simple pastime. The nearly 10000 and 12000 posts of you other users indicate that you do not. Have fun on your little website. I'm out.

 

[Sage Ages]

Well, that's not condescending at all.

 

[Silver Arrows]

What more needs to be said? I believe the "Payback sucks" mantra has been repeated well beyond the point of being the proverbial dead horse. You don't see any other point of view because you choose not to. I've learned the hard way that arguing with someone on the internet is quite possibly the least productive thing I could possibly do with my time. I have a life infinitely more enriching than getting worked up over whether or not someone shares my opinion of a simple pastime. The nearly 10000 and 12000 posts of you other users indicate that you do not. Have fun on your little website. I'm out.

What point needs to be made? I can be as heavy on the praise as I can be with Payback, but frankly, all that praise is pointless when the one universal thing of racing games - the physics system - sucks, and has not really changed from one title to another. Nearly everybody in this thread has pointed this out with video evidence. You just responded with a wall of text and a few big words in a salad that basically amounted to 'i think the handling physics are perfect and have no problems'.

So what is it that you want? Do you want NFS to change for the better, or do you just want to have the board to yourself so you can circlejerk about how good the Ghost NFS games handle? Because we have shown ample evidence to the contrary. You haven't bothered to listen, which really makes any sort of positive change for the franchise pointless.

Well, that's not condescending at all.

I guess when you have ran your own little fiefdom on the board for as long as he had, he doesn't take kindly to honest critiques about the game.

 

[ImaRobot]

What more needs to be said? I believe the "Payback sucks" mantra has been repeated well beyond the point of being the proverbial dead horse.

So talking about the many negatives is beating a dead horse, but constant praise from you is ok? Well that's not hypocritical at all now, is it? You know what's funny, this wouldn't even have happened if you weren't trying to blindly disagree with something that was so blatantly obvious.

ou don't see any other point of view because you choose not to.

Well that's ironic. You're the one literally dismissing actual evidence and experiences from players. You're the one choosing not to see. This isn't up for debate, this isn't an opinion. It's a fact that it's happening, that you keep fighting. This is not a point of view.

The odd thing here, is it's you who have always been hard to take on new view points. You always try to push away the things people don't like but constantly repeating what you do like. You're projecting here.

I've learned the hard way that arguing with someone on the internet is quite possibly the least productive thing I could possibly do with my time.

Did you learn that just seconds ago? Or just not at all? Because you're still continuing it.

I have a life infinitely more enriching than getting worked up over whether or not someone shares my opinion of a simple pastime.

Yet, that's all you do everytime someone posts about something they don't like.

The nearly 10000 and 12000 posts of you other users indicate that you do not. Have fun on your little website. I'm out.

No, that just means we know how to be a part of a community with out getting sand in our underwear every time someone doesn't agree with us. If someone has to go around insulting other people that they literally have no idea about in absolutely no form, completely fabricating a life to apply to them and making up crap, than I would imagine that that is probably not so much the truth. People who have to make up lies about others in order to feel better about themselves usually aren't the ones with happy enriched lifes like you're claiming here.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out. We'll still be here discussing like adults. Feel free to join in whenever you feel like being one too.

 

[rallymorten]

..except, in the case of Ghost's NFS games - and this may come as a shock - there might be some truth to the whole "it's bad" thing.

Granted, they're not complete and utter bargain-bin trash - none of them are called FlatOut 3 (or 4), after all - but they're not exactly what one would call "great" either. Heck, I'd struggle to call them "decent", if I'm honest with you. Part of that comes down to how the narrative design is focused entirely on providing as many callbacks as possible because that's just world-class game design isn't it, part of it is down to how the handling model at large feels as unpolished as it did in Rivals - and then their explanation for the handling model being as it is somehow makes even less sense. Trust me, I get it that throwing cars around at high speeds in a handling model specifically designed for that kind of play is entertaining - but I maintain that it still requires a good handling model. Also, saying it's developed with "controllers in mind" is a cop-out so cheap, you're actually getting money back.

Pertinent to a comparison to Payback is, once again, our lord and saviour, Burnout Paradise. It's basically NFS Payback, but with a handling model that's been carefully crafted to feel good - even on keyboard*. Go play that, and then tell me Payback wouldn't be better off by ripping off the handling model as well. It's taken everything else Paradise had, so why stop short?

*No, seriously, given my experiences with it on a controller, I can't and won't imagine playing Payback on a keyboard. If you're brave enough to do that, then you have my condolences.

 

[Sage Ages]

I wonder how differently this conversation would've went if I used a different example besides the E30 tagging a traffic car. I only used that one because it was the first and easiest example of crabwalking I could find.

 

[ImaRobot]

I wonder how differently this conversation would've went if I used a different example besides the E30 tagging a traffic car. I only used that one because it was the first and easiest example of crabwalking I could find.

I really don't think it would have went any differently.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

Finally unlocked the final 3 leagues last night. Beat Natalia Nova easily with Eddie's Skyline, but Drag is proving to be a huge pain as my Camaro is nowhere near the required PR. I don't know why they don't have a Tier 2 drag league so we don't have to grind the same old events again and again. Just noticed there's no Tier 3 drift league either. Surely it's not that much extra work making another 10 races or so to fill up career mode instead of endless grinding of repetitive events. Instead we got the development time shoveled into the hugely confusing speedcard system. Talk about priorities

Another complaint, this game is sorely lacking vertical control in free camera. Often times when I'm trying to collect billboards/coins/derelict parts and looking for a way to get to the elevated spot I just can't look high enough. Such basic thing is not even well thought out. I just cheaped out and watched YT guides. Snagged all bilboards and derelicts in 2 hours yesterday.

 

[UnkaD]

Jumped back on this game after a while away. The offroad physics are the absolute worst! I can NEVER predict what the car will do. Can't even drive in a straight line. Randomly flip flops between not wanting to turn at all and steering into walls like a passenger grabbed the wheel from me. It's everything wrong with the game phusics overall cranked up to 10. Have these developers ever driven a car before? I remember NFS games used to be decent. You know? Cars that moved like cars? I'm tired of the feeling I'm in a hovercraft.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

Jumped back on this game after a while away. The offroad physics are the absolute worst! I can NEVER predict what the car will do. Can't even drive in a straight line. Randomly flip flops between not wanting to turn at all and steering into walls like a passenger grabbed the wheel from me. It's everything wrong with the game phusics overall cranked up to 10. Have these developers ever driven a car before? I remember NFS games used to be decent. You know? Cars that moved like cars? I'm tired of the feeling I'm in a hovercraft.

It is quite rubbish and makes the Holtzman race almost as painful as the whole of NFS 2015. I found that setting suspension to Hard makes the car more stable (at the cost of start line acceration, which can be compensated by nitrous). Also set power steering to Light to allow you those quick tiny countersteer corrections. Apart from that try not to lift off the gas at any cost and just tap the brake/handbrake to get round corners by drifting as little as possible. Know where all the shortcuts are and land your jumps straight. For tight hairpins where you have to lift off, just treat it like a simulation: brake in a straight line, grip around and don't accelerate until your car is perfectly straight. Don't try to drift the hairpins. Might not get you world record times, but it's a safe & consistent method.

 

[speedy10]

Hi everyone.. i played nfs 2015 and now I will buy this nfs payback. Which are the differences between std and deluxe edition on ps4? Speedcross mode is only available on deluxe edition? Thanks!

 

[T0MMY3688]

Hi everyone.. i played nfs 2015 and now I will buy this nfs payback. Which are the differences between std and deluxe edition on ps4? Speedcross mode is only available on deluxe edition? Thanks!

Speedcross is available in the deluxe, deluxe also come with 5 starting cars and 20% discount on everything if I remember correctly.

It might be a better choice to buy the standard edition and complete DLC pack (should be available on PS4 as well), since the deluxe don't get you the other 5 DLC cars.

 

[speedy10]

Speedcross is available in the deluxe, deluxe also come with 5 starting cars and 20% discount on everything if I remember correctly.

It might be a better choice to buy the standard edition and complete DLC pack (should be available on PS4 as well), since the deluxe don't get you the other 5 DLC cars.

Thanks for your reply. There is an offer on the ps4 store, nfs std edition 7usd and deluxe 9usd.
I know that deluxe edition contains a pack of cars and speedcross.. but i do not know what Speedcross is? I remember nfs 2015 you had sprints, tine trials, drift... so speedcross is like one of those modes?

 

[Firehound427]

Speedcross is basically a mix of those three event types you just described. You race through a set course, doing drifts and jumps to earn points, as well as smashing bonus objects for extra points.

 

[speedy10]

Thanks.. so I will go for deluxe edition. I think that speedcross worth it

 

[speedy10]

guys, someone who has tried the game with logitech g29?? I started it yesterday with DS, and I´m thinking to test it with the wheel.
I know that this game is 100% arcade, but far from SIM game I just want to know the sensations with the wheel.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

Been collecting gambler chips lately. Anyone else feel the hit detection box is wayyy to small? For the chips where you have to jump to reach it it's a huge pain. I spent half an hour yesterday just trying to get a chip in the northern area of the map, because it's after a huge jump and if you miss it it's quite a distance to go back and enter the off road path to get to the jump itself! I've been using the Impreza which is quite a small car though. Maybe I should try one of the trucks/SUVs

 

[Sage Ages]

I wish there was actually a purpose to collecting them.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

I wish there was actually a purpose to collecting them.

There is - 100% completion (including platinum trophy) and easy credits. Plus they give an incentive to explore the map instead of just using fast travel everywhere. I've found a UFO in the desert and a gorgeous waterfall nestled in between 2 cliffs while collecting, something I probably wouldn't have discovered on my own.

I agree there should be something a little more substantial though. An exclusive livery perhaps. Just like in Burnout Paradise you get special carbon versions of certain cars for collecting all billboards/smash gates/jumps.

 

[Sage Ages]

There is - 100% completion (including platinum trophy)

Boring.

I agree there should be something a little more substantial though. An exclusive livery perhaps. Just like in Burnout Paradise you get special carbon versions of certain cars for collecting all billboards/smash gates/jumps.

Now this is more what I had in mind. Something that's more tangible and actually worth looking forward to.

 

[Moglet]

All you've linked me to is yet another video showing a car drifting at high speed clipping an oncoming vehicle, resulting in a new trajectory that is in line with proper physics. Can you tell me what people are expecting to happen in these situations that would be "acceptable" handling? - Serious question. Since I'm apparently unable to see what's "wrong" with these examples, please explain to me how the car "should" behave.

Ah yes, that old video. IIRC my main complaint was that the entire car "crabbed" to the left after the collision. While hitting a car should have sent me on a new trajectory it shouldn't have shifted the entire car over to the left so suddenly as if I had 4 wheel steering. I don't generally have much of an issue with the drift handling though, it can be a whole lot of fun once you get used to it.

But that's all in the past, I've now stopped playing because the game became so boring