Netscape

[Ghostrider]

I thought I would give some feedback on the Netscape browser.

It works pretty well but the smilies are out of place. Plus the curser doesn't blink right.

I'm using Netscape 6 if anybody wants to know.

 

[Jordan]

Smilies are out of place? :reallyodd

 

[Ghostrider]

Originally posted by Jordan
Smilies are out of place? :reallyodd

Ya, the smilies that are to the left when your posting run thru the right hand side of the box.

Also the arrow that you click to get to the last post on the forum index page don't work either.

 

[Jordan]

Weird. :weird: Why are you using Netscape?

 

[Ghostrider]

Originally posted by Jordan
Weird. :weird: Why are you using Netscape?

Because I use it to check my site to see how it looks. I just use it to test but thats about it. Saw that you had Statistics on browsers and other stuff. So I thought I would see how GTPlanet looked with Netscape. Better with IE. And this is the Feedback Forum.

 

[Jordan]

Oh, I see. I've never used Netscape. But, I don't understand all the weird ways Netscape reads HTML, and I would rather have the site operate to its fullest potential for the majority of users rather than leave out features for everyone.

 

[LoudMusic]

That's kind of the way I see it, except that this mentality makes Microsoft become the "standard", and we don't want that.

~LoudMusic

 

[Pako]

Originally posted by LoudMusic
That's kind of the way I see it, except that this mentality makes Microsoft become the "standard", and we don't want that.

~LoudMusic

That is a very correct statement.... The question then becomes, why does MS get away with making proprietory code that only works right on their browser? Yeah I know.... That was a retorical question, but humm.....


I will say though, and don't quote me on this, but I like the way IE handles HTML much better than Standard browsers as more features are available.

 

[vat_man]

Originally posted by LoudMusic
That's kind of the way I see it, except that this mentality makes Microsoft become the "standard", and we don't want that.

~LoudMusic

I agree - except that 90% of us aren't computer experts, and the computer is simply something that allows me to analyse financials, communicate with people, do some maths and write some letters. If it's reasonably easy to use and if I save a Word doc and send it to someone and they can use it, then I'll use it. This is why MS is dominant.

I had this debate with my golf buddy, who's a bit of a techo - it's all very well having this huge debate about the merits of Linux, why Netscape is better than IE, but to the vast majority of computer users it's nothing but incomprehensible nonsense. They just want a box that will let them write letters, do a spreadsheet, surf the web and send some e-mails.

A lot of more technically oriented people lose sight of this. It's like cars - when I tell people that my Subaru has a 16 valve boxer four with multipoint fuel injection, running through a five speed manual transmission into a variable split four wheel drive system, they just glaze over, see the big wheels and rear wing and go 'cool car'.

Hate to say it, guys, but the PC's success means it's becoming an appliance, and these are your new users....

 

[Jordan]

Originally posted by LoudMusic
That's kind of the way I see it, except that this mentality makes Microsoft become the "standard", and we don't want that.

~LoudMusic

Well, when the standard is superior to anything else available, it's fine with me.

 

[Ghostrider]

Originally posted by Jordan
Well, when the standard is superior to anything else available, it's fine with me.

Well on this site Internet Explorer is the standard according to the statistics that you show.

It's not really you that has the problem, it's vbulletin that wrote the program that's not compatible with Netscape.

I wonder how many people are using the AOL browser here. I wonder what it looks like and how it works.

 

[Jordan]

Originally posted by Ghostrider


Well on this site Internet Explorer is the standard according to the statistics that you show.

It's not really you that has the problem, it's vbulletin that wrote the program that's not compatible with Netscape.

I wonder how many people are using the AOL browser here. I wonder what it looks like and how it works.

I was able to use AOL's browser on a friend's PC to access the site, and I am happy to report that everything looked and worked properly. (Exactly like IE, actually.)

 

[LoudMusic]

Pako: There are more people using Microsoft's applications than anything else. By making their OS the desktop standard, they have been able to push their other products. Lay the foundation and sell everything that sits on top of it - it's good business. I just don't think their product is everything that it *should* be. They spent an entire month doing security fixes just on the operating system. From what I can tell, they're not done yet.

vat_man: I think 90% is generous (: More like 99.99% from where I'm sitting. I know where you're coming from, but my side of the arguement would be that what drives the car isn't the important thing to most consumers. They care about things like airbags, seatbelts, collision tests, and [Mazda] "fun to drive" aspect. These things compare to security, safty, and ease of use with a computer. Those are the things that people care about. That and the fact that you can take it to most any mechanic and get it fixed. That last one doesn't exists with Linux, and is rare with our Macintosh brethren.

The rest of that story is that people just don't know about alternatives. There aren't exactly television commersials for Linux. And the only thing people know about Apple is that their computers are made of clear plastic and "titanium". Half the people I work with grew up with Macs (artist types), and the other half grew up with DOS and Windows. Neither of them understand that a Mac can't run Windows applications, and Windows can't run Mac applications. There is actually a seperate file that executes on each set of hardware. Blah ... look at me getting all technical.

My point: Microsoft is the standard because people don't know they have an alternative option.

Jordan: It's superior for the task that you're assigning to it. There's nothing wrong with that, I do it too (: But keep in mind what is happening in the long run. You're making a corporation become the controlling factor of your industry. A single corporation drives your financial future. If (or should I say when?) they decide to stop supporting HTML and move IE to soley MSML (Microsoft Markup Language (that's a joke)), you'll have to learn a whole new language just to stay employed. Standards should be controlled by the community, not by a single corporation.

~LoudMusic

 

[LoudMusic]

Originally posted by Jordan
I was able to use AOL's browser on a friend's PC to access the site, and I am happy to report that everything looked and worked properly. (Exactly like IE, actually.)

In the current release, and most prior, AOL essentially IS the Microsoft IE browser. Most things are going to appear the same, with the exception of AOL's minor hacks to make web surfing easier on grandma (:

But with Netscape Communicator 6, which is owned by AOL, you may see a big change in the near future.

~LoudMusic

 

[vat_man]

Originally posted by LoudMusic
[Bvat_man: I think 90% is generous (: More like 99.99% from where I'm sitting. I know where you're coming from, but my side of the arguement would be that what drives the car isn't the important thing to most consumers. They care about things like airbags, seatbelts, collision tests, and [Mazda] "fun to drive" aspect. These things compare to security, safty, and ease of use with a computer. Those are the things that people care about. That and the fact that you can take it to most any mechanic and get it fixed. That last one doesn't exists with Linux, and is rare with our Macintosh brethren.

The rest of that story is that people just don't know about alternatives. There aren't exactly television commersials for Linux. And the only thing people know about Apple is that their computers are made of clear plastic and "titanium". Half the people I work with grew up with Macs (artist types), and the other half grew up with DOS and Windows. Neither of them understand that a Mac can't run Windows applications, and Windows can't run Mac applications. There is actually a seperate file that executes on each set of hardware. Blah ... look at me getting all technical.

My point: Microsoft is the standard because people don't know they have an alternative option.

[/B]

Obviously I'm not communicating well today - it did get a bit rambly - 'cos your side of the argument was my side of the argument.

I think it boils down to - people use MS because it meets what they think are their needs.

With regards to alternatives - I suspect they neither know nor care.

 

[Ghostrider]

Originally posted by Jordan
I was able to use AOL's browser on a friend's PC to access the site, and I am happy to report that everything looked and worked properly. (Exactly like IE, actually.)

That's great, I think AOL's browser is hard to make work right.

Do you know how many members use AOL to access the site?

 

[LoudMusic]

Originally posted by vat_man


Obviously I'm not communicating well today - it did get a bit rambly - 'cos your side of the argument was my side of the argument.

I think it boils down to - people use MS because it meets what they think are their needs.

With regards to alternatives - I suspect they neither know nor care.

Pretty much. They've got something that works, and nothing major is going to change during their life span, so screw the future. It's kind of like smog reduction, recycling, and saving the whales. No one cares because it doesn't matter while they're here.

I own Microsoft stock (a lot), and for some dumb reason I campaigne against them ... pardon me, I have to go kick myself in the head for a few minutes.

~LoudMusic

 

[Ghostrider]

Originally posted by vat_man


Obviously I'm not communicating well today - it did get a bit rambly - 'cos your side of the argument was my side of the argument.

I think it boils down to - people use MS because it meets what they think are their needs.

With regards to alternatives - I suspect they neither know nor care.

I think people are aware of other products out there to use, but I think they don't know how to get them. They'll use what comes on the computer when they buy it. The rule is, if it works don't mess with it.

 

[Ghostrider]

Originally posted by LoudMusic

I own Microsoft stock (a lot), and for some dumb reason I campaigne against them ... pardon me, I have to go kick myself in the head for a few minutes.

~LoudMusic

Here this looks better

 

[vat_man]

Originally posted by LoudMusic
... pardon me, I have to go kick myself in the head for a few minutes.

~LoudMusic

Wow - every time I try to do that I fall over.

 

[LoudMusic]

Originally posted by Ghostrider


I think people are aware of other products out there to use, but I think they don't know how to get them. They'll use what comes on the computer when they buy it. The rule is, if it works don't mess with it.

That's another good point. If I gave my dad a computer that did everything he is currently doing but had no Microsoft products on it, he wouldn't care in the slightest. The same goes for most of my family. But keep in mind, they're not trying to share files with the rest of the world.

We have enough trouble as it is at work with sharing files between Windows 98 and Mac OS 9.x. If I were to introduce Linux into the mix, all hell would break loose. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it takes quite a bit of knowledge and work on the user's end to make it happen. There have been LOTS of discussions about this on Slashdot.

~LoudMusic

 

[LoudMusic]

Originally posted by vat_man


Wow - every time I try to do that I fall over.

Have you tried sitting down? (: Maybe it's the beer?

On another note:
I ran a little over 5K on Saturday. I'll be getting up early tomorrow to do it all again. Hopefully I'll start trimming some time off my workout while adding a bit of distance. I've got to get under 18 minutes for a 5K before April 20th (yikes!), so my high school coach thinks I've been working out for the past five years (:

~LoudMusic

 

[Jordan]

Jordan: It's superior for the task that you're assigning to it. There's nothing wrong with that, I do it too (: But keep in mind what is happening in the long run. You're making a corporation become the controlling factor of your industry. A single corporation drives your financial future. If (or should I say when?) they decide to stop supporting HTML and move IE to soley MSML (Microsoft Markup Language (that's a joke)), you'll have to learn a whole new language just to stay employed. Standards should be controlled by the community, not by a single corporation.

Yes, I see your point, and it is a good one. As long as the current "balance of power" stays in place, (with web designers programming sites in W3C standards for IE because they know the majority of their visitors will be using it), everything will be OK.

In the current release, and most prior, AOL essentially IS the Microsoft IE browser. Most things are going to appear the same, with the exception of AOL's minor hacks to make web surfing easier on grandma (:

Ah-hah, I knew that had to be the case, they were just way too similar. Thanks for clearing it up.

Do you know how many members use AOL to access the site?

That's a good question, and my short answer is "no". Due to the similarities between AOL and IE, I suppose that is what the visitor is recorded as using?

 

[vat_man]

Originally posted by LoudMusic


That's another good point. If I gave my dad a computer that did everything he is currently doing but had no Microsoft products on it, he wouldn't care in the slightest. The same goes for most of my family. But keep in mind, they're not trying to share files with the rest of the world.

We have enough trouble as it is at work with sharing files between Windows 98 and Mac OS 9.x. If I were to introduce Linux into the mix, all hell would break loose. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it takes quite a bit of knowledge and work on the user's end to make it happen. There have been LOTS of discussions about this on Slashdot.

~LoudMusic

Well, that's it - if I didn't have MS Office on my laptop (that's MY laptop, not work's), I'd be stuffed as I do most of my spreadsheeting on it (in front of the TV with a beer or wine in hand - as is proper for this type of work). I really have no choice but to run MS Office (I do love Excel though - I hate Windows, never been a big fan of Word, find Access incomprehensible - but Excel is fantastic).

If you're stand alone and don't need to share, you can run Linux or Star Office or whatever you like - non-issue. But very few of us are in that position.

 

[vat_man]

Originally posted by LoudMusic
On another note:
I ran a little over 5K on Saturday. I'll be getting up early tomorrow to do it all again. Hopefully I'll start trimming some time off my workout while adding a bit of distance. I've got to get under 18 minutes for a 5K before April 20th (yikes!), so my high school coach thinks I've been working out for the past five years (:

~LoudMusic

Jeepers - that's only about 6 minutes quicker than this broken down hack....

I haven't run for a week because of my cold - I did some weights yesterday (gotta love that first session back after a break - woke up this morning and spent about ten minutes in a hot shower trying to get the back to work).

 

[Ghostrider]

Originally posted by LoudMusic


In the current release, and most prior, AOL essentially IS the Microsoft IE browser. Most things are going to appear the same, with the exception of AOL's minor hacks to make web surfing easier on grandma (:

But with Netscape Communicator 6, which is owned by AOL, you may see a big change in the near future.

~LoudMusic

That will be interesting.

 

[LoudMusic]

Originally posted by vat_man


Well, that's it - if I didn't have MS Office on my laptop (that's MY laptop, not work's), I'd be stuffed as I do most of my spreadsheeting on it (in front of the TV with a beer or wine in hand - as is proper for this type of work). I really have no choice but to run MS Office (I do love Excel though - I hate Windows, never been a big fan of Word, find Access incomprehensible - but Excel is fantastic).

If you're stand alone and don't need to share, you can run Linux or Star Office or whatever you like - non-issue. But very few of us are in that position.

That's the way the business world will be forever I suppose. But if people were to start using something else at home, there might be a slow migration to a more homogenious data format in the future. There would be minor amounts of feature reduction across the board, but files would be able to be shared more freely between systems. Lotus 1-2-3 (horrid spreadsheet app) can open Excel documents from older version, just as Excel can open 1-2-3 documents. MS Word can open WordPro and WordPerfect documents as well. There is even a word processing "universal" format called Rich Text Format (RTF) - but it wasn't very widely accepted.

Did you know that the "GIF" image standard is licensed? If Jordan wanted to be completely legal with his site he would have to pay royalties for each instance of a gif file served by his website. How's that for WRONG!?! There is a universal standard that is better than GIF (graphic interchange format) and JPG (JPEG - Joint Photographic Experts Group) put together. It's called PNG (portable network graphic). Back in `96 (I think) it was axxepted into the W3C as an acceptable image type for web graphics. Unfortunately no one supported it in their browser until Netscape's latest release of Mozilla/Navigator. It has alpha blending (:

Microsoft - Moving at the speed of "SCREW YOU! GIVE US ALL YOUR MONEY AND WE'LL GET AROUND TO IT EVENTUALLY!"

~LoudMusic

 

[LoudMusic]

Originally posted by vat_man


Jeepers - that's only about 6 minutes quicker than this broken down hack....

I haven't run for a week because of my cold - I did some weights yesterday (gotta love that first session back after a break - woke up this morning and spent about ten minutes in a hot shower trying to get the back to work).

Hot shower after a long cold - bring forth the mucas and general throat gunk!

I once stood in the shower for 15 minutes with a sore neck before I realized I hadn't switched the shower head to massage. I thought I was just THAT sore. (:

~LoudMusic

 

[Ghostrider]

I guess Macromedia wants a piece of pie with the PNG format.

 

[LoudMusic]

The lack of Microsoft Office holding you back from using Linux? WINE it baby! (WINE - WINdows Emulator)

http://images.mandrakesoft.com/img/scr/mdkwine.jpg

Want a big expansive desktop like your bro LoudMusic? Linux can do that multiple display thing too!

http://images.mandrakesoft.com/img/scr/vitamindual1.jpg

You like that Windows XP or OS X look? Well how about some Gimp with eazel's file manager Nautalis? Those thumbnails are generated on the fly to anysize you specify. Similar to Windows 2000's "thumbnail" view, but it works on more than just images (:

http://images.mandrakesoft.com/img/scr/traktopel10.png (note the png file)

(Images linked instead of launched for your bandwidth requirements in mind)

~LoudMusic