*** New Corvette Z06 ***

[FAOLIU05]

What? Did you misread my post or something? I think I made it clear whom I would believe, if it came down to his word: he happens to be quoted in my sig.


M

If someone as apparently ignorant as me can let this minor issue go, than shouldn't you big senior members do the same? Or are we too busy picking at the n00b to build up our pathetically low self esteem? Because there is no other logical reason for this issue to carry on to page 3 of this thread.

I'm willing to let it go, and I would like to expect you bigger and more mature members to do the same.

 

[Jay]

Well I think Vettes are VERY expensive overseas, I don't know possitively though. But I remember a particular driver interview with the C5-R drivers wishing they had a Corvette of their own... And no, not speaking of the C5-R

C6 Corvette would be very expensive, I think we (Australia) had a brief period where limited C5 Corvettes came over but Im not sure. I do see C5's around sometimes but they may be gray imports.



Australian prices of American cars when new:

02 Chevrolet Suburban = $75,000-90,000
05 Chrysler 300C = $75,000
02 Chrysler Viper GTS = $289,000
05 Chrysler Crossfire = $69,000 (base)

I assume if the C6 came to Australia it would cost about $200,000.

$1 USD = 0.71AUD (roughly)

 

[Dave A]

Over here the normal C6 costs a lot more than what you'd pay for a Z06, Bauer and Millet will get you one for around £45k (just over $80k), a Viper SRT10 costs £70k (just under $130k), so over here Vettes arn't in the right price range to be considered as a viable alternative to what we already get, they cost more to own over here too.

 

[McLaren]

C6 Corvette would be very expensive, I think we (Australia) had a brief period where limited C5 Corvettes came over but Im not sure. I do see C5's around sometimes but they may be gray imports.



Australian prices of American cars when new:

02 Chevrolet Suburban = $75,000-90,000
05 Chrysler 300C = $75,000
02 Chrysler Viper GTS = $289,000
05 Chrysler Crossfire = $69,000 (base)

I assume if the C6 came to Australia it would cost about $200,000.

$1 USD = 0.71AUD (roughly)

How much money do you people make!?
In the states, that Viper'd be $200K less...

 

[Jay]

How much money do you people make!?
In the states, that Viper'd be $200K less...

They wonder why American cars dont sell very well over here, Viper GTS hardly sold at all. We have more personal imported Vipers than factory ones as it is cheaper to buy I new Viper in the US, import it, convert and register it than it is to buy a local one.


Jack (Radicool02) also brought to my attention that a 2003 Honda NSX also costs us $256,000

 

[///M-Spec]

If someone as apparently ignorant as me can let this minor issue go, than shouldn't you big senior members do the same? Or are we too busy picking at the n00b to build up our pathetically low self esteem? Because there is no other logical reason for this issue to carry on to page 3 of this thread.

I'm willing to let it go, and I would like to expect you bigger and more mature members to do the same.

This is item one from the AUP.

You will not post any material that is knowingly false, misleading, or inaccurate.

Once, it's a minor incident. Twice in a week and I see a pattern.

You can take this however you like, champ. It's my job to enforce the rules and if I get a complaint about someone's behavior I look into it. I don't care if you're a "n00b" or not; we've let people go around that have been members longer than I have. I don't care what side of the argument you're on. I don't care how well or poorly formulated your posts are.

Argue your points, be polite to the best of your ability, stick to the rules and there'll be no problems.


M

 

[McLaren'sAngel]

C6 Corvette would be very expensive, I think we (Australia) had a brief period where limited C5 Corvettes came over but Im not sure. I do see C5's around sometimes but they may be gray imports.



Australian prices of American cars when new:

02 Chevrolet Suburban = $75,000-90,000
05 Chrysler 300C = $75,000
02 Chrysler Viper GTS = $289,000
05 Chrysler Crossfire = $69,000 (base)

I assume if the C6 came to Australia it would cost about $200,000.

$1 USD = 0.71AUD (roughly)

Hiya! Meow! (='.'=)

oh my goddess....All of those are so expensive over there...... Do people in Australia look at these cars?

 

[Swift]

This is item one from the AUP.

Argue your points, be polite to the best of your ability, stick to the rules and there'll be no problems.


M

It's just amazing how if people go with that rationale that issues on the board are virtually eliminated! 💡

 

[skicrush]

M, I think you misread MY post. My fault, probably, for quoting you instead of Famine or Faoliou5. My point was that there are other witnesses who have been watching the whole thing, BESIDES the other facts I stated. I think he's missing that we're less bugged at what he did, and more bugged at his reaction when being caught. But live4speed is right--I think it's best if we all let it go, and we behave ourselves better next time around. (You'll notice I'm using the royal "we," having someone specific in mind, and taking on a lecturing tone).

I'd be pretty surprised if the C6 cost any more in AU than it costs in the UK, unless it's the cost of import duties. And given its higher price in the UK, I'd say it loses the bang-for-your-buckgame to TVR. All things being equal (which they're not at present, but I think they could be if TVR came this way. I mean, import duties obviously don't drive up the price of accords. And if you could get a normal BMW here, they wouldn't be that expensive either), I think the TVR/Vette comparison is a much closer match than with porsche. Not that I won't enjoy the Z06 beating nearly EVERYTHING that can be had for less than $300k. But I think the porsche/vette thing is mostly a Eurosnob/American Redneck rivalry. Or maybe it's the fact that they go about things so differently, but they're so evenly matched performance wise. Which is better? Well, it is ususally so close that it depends on where you're from.

On the note of the Viper/Vette Comparo.... Are there any substantial differences in performance when speaking of the Viper Conv. Vs the Viper Coupe...Considering in ANY other car there is usually a large margain(asside from the C12). And if a Viper Conv. gives a Vette a run for it's money driving skill asside, what about the coupe..

Actually, the coupe is a little HEAVIER than the convertible. Since the Viper was designed AS a convertible, there is no "extra" chassis strengthening added to the convertible. That's stock. The coupe benefits from the extra rigidity the roof provides, but has to deal with the extra weight as well. Acceleration is slower, but top speed is better. And, incidentally, the vette has the viper's number.

 

[Dave A]

It'd be interesting if Dodge made a new Viper GT, as a road version of the race cars and then compared that to the Z06. Unfortunately with the Viper not racing at LeMans or certain other GT classes theres no point in making a faster road version. The way I see it, even though I prefer TVR's over the Vette's, it's a good thing the Vette's are around, it adds diversity and if the Z06 really is that good, then thats a contribution to the automotive world. I just wish I had the cash to buy the Cerbera Speed 12 when it appeared in Autotrader last year.

 

[McLaren]

They wonder why American cars dont sell very well over here, Viper GTS hardly sold at all. We have more personal imported Vipers than factory ones as it is cheaper to buy I new Viper in the US, import it, convert and register it than it is to buy a local one.


Jack (Radicool02) also brought to my attention that a 2003 Honda NSX also costs us $256,000

So, why exactly do they have to be that expensive? What's wrong with charging the US price?

 

[skicrush]

GM bought Opel, Vauxhall, and Holden to avoid having to pay shipping and import duties. The Japanes manufacturers built plants in the US (and EU, I presume) to avoid having to pay shipping and import fees. I imagine that there is SOME kind of premium for owning a rarer import sports car like the vette or mustang, or even an older mustang or camaro would be outside of the US. But $200k in import duties, shipping, and the premium? No way. That's an overestimation of demand, and a mistake on the part of DC. Anything they can get over their cost to get it there would be worth their time. They'll never be common, so they don't have to intentionally limit the numbers. The problem is, $289k is exhorbitant, and prohibitive. I think that Chevy will keep the price of the vette to the above equation: base price, plus shipping, plus some kind of premuim for the rarity and such. I don't think $85k for a normal vette is too bad. I have no idea what shipping is, but it can't be more than a couple thousand dollars. Import duties may be as much as $12k. I have no real idea. But the truth of the matter is that you probably couldn't buy it for more than $5k-$10k cheaper in the US and ship it over, which is a lot of hassle, especially for someone in THAT tax bracket. But the other thing is that most people that HAVE to have one over there are willing to pay a premium to own one. A cheaper price wouldn't necessarily sell any more cars.

 

[Dave A]

Theres probalby a high level of goverment tax involved on top of all that, thats why TVR dont see in the US, if TVR wanted to officially distribute their cars over there they would have to pay a stupidly high level of tax which basicaly makes the whole operation pointless since they'd cost so much people would be choosing between a TVR Tuscan S or a Ferrari 360, I know the TVR's faster but image is hugely important in prices and Ferrari wins in both that area and build quality. 289k AUD is still around 220k USD so it's still stupidly high which is why I think it's the same thing that stops smaller European manufacturers operating in the US.

 

[skicrush]

WEll, yes and no. Astons don't cost THAT much more here than there. I would hope that if TVR really has plans to bring them here, it wouldn't increase their costs that much.

 

[Swift]

WEll, yes and no. Astons don't cost THAT much more here than there. I would hope that if TVR really has plans to bring them here, it wouldn't increase their costs that much.

Totally off topic, but I was reading since the Russian guy bought TVR, one of his main goals was to get more in the US market.

 

[Dave A]

Not exactley, Nikolai Smolensky (the russian guy) wants to make TVR a globally recognised marquee, he eventually wants them distributed in the US among other places. However he has to be able to pay a stupid ammount for the privilege of selling in the US, now for a company like Aston Martin, they can afford to pay the tax and not charge much on top to compensate, they produce in a larger volume at a higher profit per unit, TVR produce in very, very small volumes with a smaller profit (TVR is only worth £15 million, not much for a car manufacturer), so paying a stupid ammount of money in tax has to be compensated by a larger increase in price per unit to that of Aston Martin. Why the cost is so high for a Caorvette in Austrailia I'd put down to 2 things, 1 stupid tax and 2 more profit if other cars are being sold at thoes prices it becomes the norm.

 

[skicrush]

Wow, I had no idea hey were that small. A lot of the problem when introducing a car to the US market is the crash tests and such. Besides all the EPA fuel economy stuff. They want you to destroy X cars in X number of ways to make sure the crash dummies are adequately protected. Besides the fact that you have to pay engineers and stuff to design them to crumple correctly in the first place. I'd guess the same goes for importing to EU and AU as well. Just another rip in the shorts I forgot about. Makes it pretty tough for companies as small as TVR to swallow.

 

[Dave A]

Yeah they built only 1000 or so cars last year, their new owner Smolenski want's to double that.

 

[McLaren]

Didn't he design some kind of bike?
Or was it a car?

All I heard was that he'd ruin the company with it if it had gone through.

 

[Swift]

Man, what did I start....

Get back on the topic guys.

 

[Dave A]

Didn't he design some kind of bike?
Or was it a car?

All I heard was that he'd ruin the company with it if it had gone through.

He's interested in building a bike.

Anyway, what do you think the Z06's market is? Comparing it to a Ferrari is pointless, even if the Z06 is faster they guy in the Ferrari will still get all the attention so it's not image, if someone want's top performance for low cost theresp plenty of cars that are cheaper and faster, but less practical. So if anyones considering a car for simply high performance it's not the Z06 because they won't care about practicality. If I go on I'm going to cover too many bases, and since I'm not American I'm asking you this. Theres obviously an appeal and a market for the Z06, not everyone tyhat it appeals to will get one for the same reason I won't get a TVR, cost. So all things considered what people will buy the Z06?

 

[skicrush]

OK, I'll do it. I know nothing about different TVR models, or at least, not much more than I've gleaned from playing GT3. What are their specs and stuff, and which ones would match up well with the C6 and the Z06? Weight, balance, power, etc. Lets have it all. I think this is OK since its the one manufacturer that we've pretty well ignored in comparison to the vettes. Well, "we" being the americans. live4speed has been representing them well.

 

[McLaren]

I don't have a clue what you're on about?

Anyway, what do you think the Z06's market is? Comparing it to a Ferrari is pointless, even if the Z06 is faster they guy in the Ferrari will still get all the attention so it's not image, if someone want's top performance for low cost theresp plenty of cars that are cheaper and faster, but less practical. So if anyones considering a car for simply high performance it's not the Z06 because they won't care about practicality. If I go on I'm going to cover too many bases, and since I'm not American I'm asking you this. Theres obviously an appeal and a market for the Z06, not everyone tyhat it appeals to will get one for the same reason I won't get a TVR, cost. So all things considered what people will buy the Z06?

I heard there was some Motorcycle design TVR supposedly made, and many people didn't like it.

Then there were the rumors they designed a family car, and people thought he was ruining the company.

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/53354/tvr_to_get_on_its_bike.html
Live, that was the bike.

 

[Dave A]

I was a slow in thinking then sorry, it just seemed like a random question , yes he's interested in doing a bike, it's more a question of public reacion to designs and ideas over the coming months if it'll go ahead or not. If people say no way I wouldn't buy that, it's not going ahead. I don't mind a TVR bike, it'd be like the good old days with Triumph making sportscars and bikes ect. Then again, it is something that they'd have to be very, very careful about, they might compromise the TVR image with a bike because it'd have to be so raw and uncompromised it'self, it might be too much and unusable.

 

[skicrush]

He's interested in building a bike, it's doubtful it'd be a TVR thopugh.

Anyway, what do you think the Z06's market is? Comparing it to a Ferrari is pointless, even if the Z06 is faster they guy in the Ferrari will still get all the attention so it's not image, if someone want's top performance for low cost theresp plenty of cars that are cheaper and faster, but less practical. So if anyones considering a car for simply high performance it's not the Z06 because they won't care about practicality. If I go on I'm going to cover too many bases, and since I'm not American I'm asking you this. Theres obviously an appeal and a market for the Z06, not everyone tyhat it appeals to will get one for the same reason I won't get a TVR, cost. So all things considered what people will buy the Z06?

Well, if it's only ten seconds faster around the ring than the base C6, that means the following PRODUCTION cars would be faster than it is:
7:28 Carrera GT
7:40 MB McLaren SLR
7:42 Mosler MT900
7:43.5 Lambo Murci
7:44 Zonda C12S
7:45 McLaren F1
7:46 Jag XJ220
7:46 Vette Z06

I expect the Koeniggsegg and Noble are in the ballpark, too (no Ring times), but that is a pretty short list. That's pretty darn good for what is EASILY the most livable of the group, and that can include all the road cars between that mark and the base C6 (except the M3 CSL 7:50 and M5 7:52, which were the next 2 cars on the above list). And it and the Mosler are the only American cars in that neighborhood, too (in fact, until you get to the Viper GTS at 8:10). The Caterham R500 and 7 Superlight are the only cars cheaper than the Z06 (except the base C6) in the top 30 production cars (non-tuner mfg cars). Given the above list, it would be the fastest street legal car you could go out and buy for less than $200k-$300k. Not a bad proposition, and fairly attractive if you're just slighty more well off than the average vette owner.

 

[Dave A]

You forgot the record holding Radical, just because they're track day cars that doesn't stop them being production road cars. But, and this is a BIG but, how do you compare that to cars that haven't been tested at the ring, like TVR's for example. I keep mentioning them. You're gearing towards performance, but if thats all anyone wants in a car theres plenty of cheaper and faster cars that focus on performace, so what is it about the Z06 that makes you tick that others can't see?

 

[Dave A]

Heres a list of a few time from the ring I've found, I've included some tuner cars simply for reference, you don't have to apply them to you're points if you don't want.

7:19 --- Radical SR3 Turbo (2003), >>> Link
7:28 --- Porsche Carrera GT, Walther Röhrl, Autobild July 2004 >>> Link
7:32.5 - Gemballa Porsche GTR 600 EVO, Wolfgang Kaufmann (2001) >>> Link
7:40 --- Mercedes Benz McLaren SLR, Klaus Ludwig, Autobild July 2004 >>> Link
7:42 --- Radical 1500 SR3 (2002)
7:43 --- Porsche 996 911 GT3 RS, factory test driver Walter Rohrl, MOTOR Magazine
7:43.5 - Lamborghini Murcielago (Autocar magazine, 2002)
7:44 --- Pagani Zonda C12S (07/2003)
7:45 --- Gemballa Porsche GTR 600 (12/2000)
7:46 --- Porsche 996 GT2
7:46 --- SHK Porsche 993 GT2, 652 PS (1999)
7:47 --- Porsche 996 GT3 RS, 381PS (996) (2004)
7:49 --- Porsche 996 GT3 Cup
7:50 --- BMW E46 M3 CSL (08/2003)
7:50 --- Blitz Supra, 750 PS, Herbert Schürg (1997)
7:52 --- Gemballa Porsche 911 Le Mans (1995)
7:52 --- Lamborghini Gallardo E-Gear (12/2003)
7:54 --- Porsche GT3 (996) (2003)
7:55 --- Caterham R500 Superlight (2002)
7:56 --- Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale (02/2004)
7:56 --- Porsche 996 Turbo
7:56 --- Honda NSX-R - Motoharu Kurosawa, Best MOTORing
7:56 --- Chevrolet Corvette CE Z06 >>> link
7:56 --- Chevrolet Corvette C6 (tested by Dave Hill)
7:57 --- Lotec Porsche 993 Turbo, 600 PS, racing suspension
7:59 --- Porsche 911 Carrera S (997) (Performance Chassis) (Walter Rohrl - WHEELS June 2004)

 

[skicrush]

Well, first, there was this from just up above.

OK, I'll do it. I know nothing about different TVR models, or at least, not much more than I've gleaned from playing GT3. What are their specs and stuff, and which ones would match up well with the C6 and the Z06? Weight, balance, power, etc. Lets have it all. I think this is OK since its the one manufacturer that we've pretty well ignored in comparison to the vettes. Well, "we" being the americans. live4speed has been representing them well.

Second, they aren't sold here. Besides, though the TVRs may be lighter, they probably can't match the top speed down the straights, and the vette would likely turn a better lap. And yes, I self edited the Race and Modified cars from the Ring list I was working from, so I'm not surprised I missed one. Well, I'm actually surprised I ONLY missed ONE.

So, fill me in on the TVR scene. But that's a pretty good answer even if TVRs are taken into account.

And, I'm going home for the night--I'll see y'all tomorrow.

 

[Dave A]

As far as comparing TVR's to Vetes is concerned it's hard to find lap times from TVR's, they don't take their cars to the Ring because of cost, theyt're immensely quick in straght lines and round corners. TVR's are among the fines handling sports cars on the planet and I wouldn't be suprised at all to see one out handle a Z06. But as I said, it comes down to speculation, until the Z06 gets tested on the TopGear track and some more TVR's theres nothing definitive other than they're both bloody fast for their price.

The appeal of a TVR is it's no compromises, it's built for performance and for driving enjoyment. They will out perform cars twice their price and more while offering a ride that won't shatter you're spine yet reamins race car like. Also they have the coolest paint jobs on the planet.

 

[Jay]

Hiya! Meow! (='.'=)

oh my goddess....All of those are so expensive over there...... Do people in Australia look at these cars?

That is the reason American cars hardly sell in Australia, they are popular but people arnt willing to spend the money when we can get Euro (still overpriced aswell) or most Japanese cars for a good price (except Honda are over priced).

eg a 1999 C5 corvette would cost us second hand over $100,000, we can buy a 2004 HSV Clubsport (RWD) LS2 400hp with 6speed for $52,300.

So, why exactly do they have to be that expensive? What's wrong with charging the US price?

I dont have a clue why they are so expensive? Some of the price may be tax? but that doesnt stop Japanese cars from being well priced.

It seems to me they got used to the times where our dollar was worth half the US dollar and they are sticking to it.