New Emissions Rules Are Pouring Cold Water On Hot Hatches

Joey D

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I dont have a problem with this. 100hp was enough power to have serious fun in my Fiat Panda 100hp.

Let get back to basics and having fun at 70mph rather than 130mph.

In order for that to work, cars would need to be smaller and significantly lighter than they currently are. A 100 hp in a new Golf would be awful since they weigh nearly 3,000 lbs. An MKI Golf was only 1,900 lbs.
 

SlipZtrEm

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I'd say a bigger contributor to "back-to-basics fun" would be the tire selection, more so than the power output. The rubber on some hot hatches is seriously grippy, and that contributes to this general "issue" — if we want to call it that — of cars not really coming alive until well over most national speed limits.

It's a tough nut to crack, though; people like numbers. They're easily digestible. If VW released the mk8 GTI with less power, less weight, less outright grip, but sold it as being more fun, I'm not entirely sure people would bite, at least in terms of sales compared to what it replaced. About the only car that bucks that trend consistently is the Miata — and even it's getting more power.
 
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In order for that to work, cars would need to be smaller and significantly lighter than they currently are. A 100 hp in a new Golf would be awful since they weigh nearly 3,000 lbs. An MKI Golf was only 1,900 lbs.

Yep. That's what I'm saying. The future of fun is the UP GTi not the Golf R.
 
9,590
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My Mazda2 was a total hoot to drive. It only had 100hp, but it made it in a sort of snorting and energetic way. The car was also very light at around 2200lbs....and that was with a decent amount of equipment, 4 doors, 7 air bags, abs, tc, and modern crash structures. That car would have been magnificent with only 140hp or so, and a well-ratio'd 6 speed manual (the gearing of the 5 speed wasn't really optimal).
 

kikie

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I wonder how the future of cars is going to be like, due to the new emmissions rules.

Light, fun, still fast or small, boring and slow cars. What techology can we expect?
 

Joey D

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I wonder how the future of cars is going to be like, due to the new emmissions rules.

Light, fun, still fast or small, boring and slow cars. What techology can we expect?

Probably hot-EVs. Tesla is already doing it and it's only a matter of time before we get something like a NISMO Leaf or Chevy Bolt SS with hopped-up electric motors.
 

Famine

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The future of fun is the UP GTi
Under WLTP, the up! GTI is 14% worse on emissions than under NEDC.
VXR
If we actually did see a return of larger NA engines, I think I'd die of happiness.
Mazda still uses them. In fact, of all the mainstream European manufacturers that cater to the A/B/C/D segments, it's the only one that doesn't use forced induction petrols (it does use turbodiesels though, which is sort of a given). The stated reason for this was real-world emissions over lab tests, and it's not wrong.
 

VXR

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Under WLTP, the up! GTI is 14% worse on emissions than under NEDC.

Mazda still uses them. In fact, of all the mainstream European manufacturers that cater to the A/B/C/D segments, it's the only one that doesn't use forced induction petrols (it does use turbodiesels though, which is sort of a given). The stated reason for this was real-world emissions over lab tests, and it's not wrong.

It would be a good move, honestly. With how the 2.0 turbo 4 has become so ubiquitous, it has made things somewhat bland. A 3-series with an NA six again would be that little more special than the 4 in the 320/330i. Heck, the 1.5 triple in the 318i is more interesting.
 
42,129
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Cool. Bring back the days of the GLI 16V 1.8L 123hp, 1000kg.

Look at the Swift Sport, Ignis, i20, etc. Also the kei car segment. There's plenty of fun to be had. Time for engineers to get creative again.
Glad I've got my 1.6 EK1. 120hp/1006kg is more than enough.
 
39,505
About time. Manufacturers pretending that they'd cracked some mysterious barrier of "all the power of a 6 for the penalty of a small 4" because the drivetrain was good for bench tests was annoying enough when it was just Ford doing it, nevermind when the industry immediately homogenized even among brands that were supposed to be premium. As much of a have their cake thing as the diesel mess, even if not as malicious.


At least "big engine with just off-idle highway RPM" was a configuration with results easily replicated.
 
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VXR

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The best hire car I've had so far in Spain was a little 1.2 Panda. No turbo to get caught out of its powerband on the mountain roads, just an honest engine that thrives on revs and doesn't corrupt them with too much power.
 
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And now Mazda who was ridiculed for a long time for having weak NA engines is proven future-proof having the "cleanest" vehicles with the lowest consumption and not need to lower their power at all. And with their upcoming next gen engines they will save the face of petrol engines for the next few decades maybe.
 
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Donald1959
Yeah just keep on talking, trying to distract everyone from the fact that the Golf R is now DSG only.
RIP sweet prince.
Really though, surely the 'R' is an enthusiast's car and which car enthusiast would want a bloody DSG?
 

Clark

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The Golf is meant as a daily driver performance car so I think most people would rather have a DSG on it, works well with the smaller turbo charged engine as well.
 
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Donald1959
Are people really that lazy that they can't be bothered to change gear in their daily driver anymore? I think I'm not alone in thinking that automatic gearboxes remove a lot from the driving experience. Also, the dsgs aren't good for modifying as they can't take nearly as much power as the manuals in the Mk7s.
 

Wolfe

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Are people really that lazy that they can't be bothered to change gear in their daily driver anymore? I think I'm not alone in thinking that automatic gearboxes remove a lot from the driving experience. Also, the dsgs aren't good for modifying as they can't take nearly as much power as the manuals in the Mk7s.
I personally agree with you on automatics; they're frustrating at worst and numb the driving experience at best. Manual is very clearly superior for my preferences, and a strict requirement for my car shopping.

However, it's untrue and unconstructive to accuse anyone of being lazy or not a "real enthusiast" for opting against a manual. At the end of the day, it's a preference. Just enjoy what you and I consider to be a more engaging drive and let them enjoy theirs. :cheers:
 
15
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Donald1959
I personally agree with you on automatics; they're frustrating at worst and numb the driving experience at best. Manual is very clearly superior for my preferences, and a strict requirement for my car shopping.

However, it's untrue and unconstructive to accuse anyone of being lazy or not a "real enthusiast" for opting against a manual. At the end of the day, it's a preference. Just enjoy what you and I consider to be a more engaging drive and let them enjoy theirs. :cheers:
Yeah you're definitely right that automatics have their audience - including(but not limited to) disabled people. However vw not taking away the option of a manual is really disappointing for me as this is a car I want to own at some point. There will always be r's from the last 4 or so years available on the market, but it is a shame that vw is moving this way and I really hope they backtrack on this decision.
 
39,505
this is a car I want to own at some point.
And that's why Volkswagen literally could not care less. They aren't struggling with emissions laws to sell cars to people who may buy one in half a decade.
 
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Northstar

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but it is a shame that vw is moving this way and I really hope they backtrack on this decision.

If anything I'd be surprised if more manufacturers didn't follow suit. The traditional stick shift is on it's way out for performance models now that dual clutch transmissions are becoming cheap enough to put in non-super cars. Plus their ease of use and automatic mode means the possible market is bigger.
 

Wolfe

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Performance models are a lost cause. Enough of them have followed that sensible but dreary path, among other trends, that I've wondered whether I still have the same passion for cars anymore. But acquiring my 2.5i reignited the spark.
 
42,129
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Performance models are a lost cause. Enough of them have followed that sensible but dreary path, among other trends, that I've wondered whether I still have the same passion for cars anymore. But acquiring my 2.5i reignited the spark.
Mazda seem to be doing a smart thing with their turbo and upgraded MX-5 2.0. They've taken the brand upscale, but I wonder if the 2 is next on the to do list.