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Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by bmxmitch, Mar 9, 2018.
Just a little clip for the people who think this is a no-contact sport
THIS, is racing!
I did 6 races today on the new patch. It seems to be much better. Had a few races with small side contacts and at the and it showed a clean race for me.
Hope it stays the same. I`m now again S. 6 races ago I was C.
but not possible in gts due to this stupid bumping ala ping pong physics
DTM is similar to V8 Supercars or British TCC in terms of driver's behaviour or "contact" during a race.
This kind of race cannot be done in WCC FIA or Blancpain GT series.People that follow F1,would say that this is not acceptable.
I mean,different series have not the same rules and contact is not tolareted the same way.Problem with GTS is that propably trying to "sim" F1 style but many people race in a different manner because they dont understand that.
Yeah, the physics are the worst I've seen in any racing game...
But the problem is that 99,5% of GTS players are rookie drivers, or at least not Pros! A little contact here and there shouldn't be punished that hard.
Of course, DTM is an extreme example, but in every race series you will have small contact or little bumps. They're just part of it, even in F1!
But I'll test the new system later. Hopefully we're done with the Penalties for others mistakes.
Car in GTS has no weight. When contacted, they will fly
Happened twice when I was in a lobby with @bmxmitch yesterday and I went out to seek revenge on random divebombers and crashers I felt like I was playing Flight Simulator
The thing is that in the game people will use those little bumps to gain an unfair advantage over you and gently push you out of position.
You may not do it but MANY players did just that all the time in A/S and I think that was the reason for the harsh penalties.
I still think absolutely no contact is the way to go for high tiers.
Normally if I bump someone even if the car in front of me doesn't lose control, I get some kind of penalty. The other day on Brands Hatch I did a few and got no penalties for them, maybe they were too soft for the game to register, BUT I did slow down immediately after bumping to allow the car in front of me to regain grip.
Great video, I love watching DTM.
This is something that happens in real life too mate.Its not "part" of sim racing or GTS online only.
And this will not change,no matter what.Yet the penalty and rating system should work as best as possible to address these problems.
Unrealistic as contact is going to happen,no matter what.Mistakes are also part of rl or sim racing.
@bmxmitch ... you've provided a highlight real, that is designed to entice the public to view the sport, so, of course it's going to have contact, controversially driving techniques and drama. Just like hockey highlight reals show destruction and fights.
Now I would like to see the interviews with the racers on the receiving end of these "rubbing is racing" moments ... of course they are typically polite and choose their words wisely to protect their sponsors image and guarantee their livelihood/income... but listen to what they are really say, or, find interviews with them still "hot under the collar".
Yes, contact happens, that's not to say the drivers are fond of it.
One of NASCARs (known for rubbing, so I'll use it as an example) most popular drivers of all time (Dale Jr.) is also one of the cleanest racers of all time, and certainly of the modern era. He used to say this one thing of the aggressive driver a lot when he would get wreck/passed...
"he just plain ran out of talent"...
and I think that about sums it up, if you cannot get past on talent, there are those that will resort to "rubbing is racing"...
So, I need to further comment on what I just posted.
If I'm 100% honest... yes, contact does happen, but when it's used to better your position, I'm betting the vast majority will agree, that is not "right".
So, how do you accomplish a "fair" system when your are dealing with "gamers"?
I wish I had that answer, but, seems to me the overbearing penalty system was working to purge that behavior.
Now, in the real word those kind of over takes happen here and there, and, by the end of the season you have a highlight reel.
In GTSport, it was happening on nearly every corner, and during nearly every battle for position.
So, even when i admit, that contact does happen, it shouldn't be the mentality of the community, and sure as heck should not be happening all race long in every corner.
The penalty system didn't ruin racing, the gamers ruined racing, and PD reacted to correct the behavior... and all the gamers went bat-poo-crazy because they were no longer allowed to "rubbing is racing" their merry way to the front..
Sorry I'm too stupid to quote in parts but
1:The difference is that professional drivers will not try to destroy another drivers race and in an incident both drivers will work their way out of a bad situation.Not going to happen in the game enviroment.
2:It can change if there is a strong deterrent for making contact and I think thats what PD is trying to do.
3:I disagree, especially in SrS you should do a formula race in bathurst no problem but it has been so easy to reach full SR.
I cut a corner on the 1st turn at Interlagos, so maybe two tires cut across the grass because I was trying to avoid a guy who was turning into me. I got a 4 second penalty which seemed excessive......is it just me?
Ah they’ve broken it again. I was enjoying the clean racing.
Many race series’ punish track limits, just finished rewatching the spa 24hr and quite a few cars got drive-thru penalties for track limits. I don’t agree that the time penalties are excessive - whether you gained a time advantage or not is irrelevant because the aim of the game is to keep the car on the track, if you fail to do that then you deserve some kind of penalty.
Also plenty of penalties were dished out for unavoidable contact which in my book means any contact at all no matter how light you THINK it is. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been nudged from the side in the braking zone which has led to an accident. I was pleased they tightened everything up but now the races are back to normal.
I do agree it’s unfair that lower DR ranks are not subject to the same rules, this should be equalised.
My two cents. I’ll still play GTS and sport mode whatever the rules and just adjust my driving to match, but it seems some here seem to struggle with that concept.
Forget 2cents, that post is Gold sir. Well written.
Punishing one or two incidents is not worth ruining the rest of the racing over. In the event they gain no advantage then the penalty simply ruins the racing for both of you and thats what we're all complaining about. In the event they push you out the way, they either give the place back or you can push them out the way on the next corner. Either way the penalties will cause more chaos for other people. If you get punted off every now and then, just deal with it. It's by far the lesser of two evil for me. Not that this penalties system stops that - out just gives the victim a penalty too.
No one wanted the drivers in the video at le mans 2017 I linked to get penalties. But they want them on gtsport for even less claiming it doesn't ruin the racing? How does that make sense?
I'll also go back to this point which is a fact no one has proven otherwise. Penalties are given out when an unfair advantage is gained or unsporting behaviour against another driver. These never include little rubs and that includes in F1 where no contact is technically allowed! How many times have you seen end plates come off F1 card through slight contact? And how many penalties for that? They don't do it because they recognise when on the limit little things like that happen and it's not worth ruining the fun over.
But anyway it sounds like they've fixed it so I cannot wait to race tonight. I'll upload the best of the two races and you lot can try to convince me it would have been so much better if everyone had penalties for every little rub.
That said maybe now I'm used to this I'm going to think it's a crashfest and want the strict one back lol
Just raced at Blue Moon (S/S, FIA Nations Cup), SR went from 99 to 72.
Someone cut the grass at Turn 2 - took me out and another driver, 2 drivers put the brakes on when exiting 1st corner, gives me pen.
So when I slowed down for the penalties, drivers were using me as a slipstream, bumping me because of this, I get further penalties.
They need to increase the leniency for ovals. Clean drivers becoming victims of utter stupidity from other drivers.
It's testing my patience. Not everyone has the time to race hours a day to bump up their ratings
Better option than both slamming on the brakes and causing more crashes behind with innocent parties and then even more because of that imo
Welcome to my world
That was a bad idea before the new penalty system.
Exactly this, we need to learn that not every corner is an overtaking spot and that just because you’ve thrown the car down the inside doesn’t mean your overtake is good to go.
Very few passes are accomplished by sending the car at the apex and hoping the leading car lets you go, many many passes are from gaining a better exit from a corner (for example exiting Betley elbow into conrod at Bathurst) and using the speed to pass on the straight.
Unfortunately from what I see the mentality is that every small mistake from the car in front = an opportunity to dive in and “capitalise”.
TL : DR
Days of thunder is not a documentary, rubbing is NOT racing (not even 1986 NASCAR) and “going for a gap, that exists” may have worked for Senna sometimes but even he knew that diving down the inside at lesmo 1 from 50 yards back because you spotted a car sized gap is likely not to end well.
GT sport just got dirtier IMO.
I spent 15 minutes before the race thinking to myself, 'Should I take the risk?' Before today, I have won 3 out of 4 races at Blue Moon, so I took the gamble
What a mistake.
I was actually catching the leaders in 3rd with 4 laps to go, despite the penalties...until the bandits came...
Are you racing in the FIA races this week?
Ha, well that's quite possible. Certainly there are already comments on here from a few that any less punitive system is 'a bad thing'.
PD is stuck between a rock and a hard place ... without a paddle. The paddle they need is a properly working SR system - not one that gives massive -SR willy nilly, or even one that tries to determine fault - just one that doesn't give high SR players as much +SR, so we don't get so many bunched up at SR 99. Then the matchmaking might actually work to give us clean races at SR 99 ish... and other types of races at other SR levels.
punting still gets you a penalty but rubbing and kissing rear bumpers don't anymore
I can agree that slamming on the brakes is not a good solution... and it does not it mimic real racing.
We will have to agree, to disagree, that allowing folks to take each other out is a better solution.
I think, possibly, a fair solution would be to serve the time penalties in the pits (on the races that require pit stops) and/or carry the penalty to the race finish would be better than the brake slamming or opponent ramming.
Unfortunately, kissing bumpers still give penalties sometimes