New physics (update 1.31)

[R3V]

If you want to lock the rear tires, wouldn’t you just pull the handbrake instead of setting the brake bias to rear? And if you want to see what happens when you lock the rears, then pull the handbrake. It often doesn’t end well…

Handbrake is binary. Rear brakes can be modulated. You want just the right amount of dive/load on the fronts and slip on the rear to turn into the corner. This is how you drive real cars, other racing sims and to a lesser extent pre-1.31 GT7. Now it's cartoonish old Gran Turismo physics again.


I talk about locking the rears completely to prove a point. If abusing the brakes without ABS doesn't even lock the rears, the rear brakes aren't working or the rear tyres have too much grip. This is not fun.

edit

Fixing the throttle map and adjusting traction control was sufficient enough to fix the previous physics. What they did now is a massive overcorection and I honestly don't even feel like playing the game anymore.

 

[i386]

There is a saying "smooth is fast" and "fast is smooth"

I only heard the version "slow is smooth and smooth is fast" (I think it was driver61 on youtube?)

While I don’t necessarily disagree, it gets to the point that unless you have a full motion platform, VR and a 20nm wheel…

I read on different forums and boards that people usually use only 11-17nm of torque. Everything higher and they wrestle the wheel instead of the car/simulator...

 

[djolliea]

Handbrake is binary. Rear brakes can be modulated. You want just the right amount of dive/load on the fronts and slip on the rear to turn into the corner. This is how you drive real cars, other racing sims and to a lesser extent pre-1.31 GT7. Now it's cartoonish old Gran Turismo physics again.


I talk about locking the rears completely to prove a point. If abusing the brakes without ABS doesn't even lock the rears, the rear brakes aren't working or the rear tyres have too much grip. This is not fun.

edit

Fixing the throttle map and adjusting traction control was sufficient enough to fix the previous physics. What they did now is a massive overcorection and I honestly don't even feel like playing the game anymore.

ABS Weak feels good to me and overall the physics are now massively better and much more realistic than before 1.31. Cars handle and feel more like in real life. In VR with a wheel everything just clicks and feels very accurate. Under braking and cornering you can now actually sense the weight transfer when it used to feel like nothing, like the car was "floating". This helps a lot when trail braking.

 

[bread82]

I wonder if each point on the brake bias adjustments now corresponds to a different percentage than before? It certainly feels like 5 to the back doesn't feel as far back as it used to.

I just wish it was an actual percentage you could choose from like in practically any other title.

Hmm, you may be onto something. I've been looking at the red portion of the braking bar. With ABS off and playing with the balance, the red section seems smaller than I remember previously. The proportion of red bar for full front or full rear bias seems unchanged, in that the full rear weakens the stronger front brakes giving about double the amount of red bar, vs if you set to full front bias.

But the red bits always seem smaller overall, than before.

With ABS on, even weak, it seems to trigger very early and give lots of red bar under any balance setting. Previously I thought it still reflected the balance.

And even with ABS off, during the final stages of braking with lots of tyre squeal, the red bar pulses a little almost as if there's still some antilock effect, albeit minimal

 

[super_gt]

There is an annoying hidden assistant that prevents the rear tires from locking even with ABS Off.

 

[RacingFan1]

There is a saying "smooth is fast" and "fast is smooth"

Nobody is braking like a granny and by the leaderboards they are going faster...obviously the game changes are the problem....🤔

Not necessarily, it depends on the car.

 

[Yard_Sale]

I only heard the version "slow is smooth and smooth is fast" (I think it was driver61 on youtube?)

I read on different forums and boards that people usually use only 11-17nm of torque. Everything higher and they wrestle the wheel instead of the car/simulator...

I’m one of those try-hards-posers that run an alpha male 20nm base. I haven’t been able to find good information on how much force I’m actually using IG. My in game settings are as per recommended by Fanatec (5-1), but for gr.3 cars and below, I run the base at 100%. For gr.2 I run it at 90% (because the increased down force makes 100% too much), and for Gr.1/prototypes - I run about 80-85%, for the same reasons.

All of these different “percentages” that I run for high downforce cars, feel just as heavy, if not heavier than the “100%” that I run on the base for gt.3 cars.

Which brings me back to the original question. If 80% on Gr.1 cars feels exactly the same - if not heavier than 100% on GT3 cars…. Then how many NM am I actually running at 100% on said GT3 cars?

Regardless, the wheel does beat you up a bit running heavy torque like that, but I do notice that I sacrifice detail (and realism to an extent 🙄), if I run lower torque values than that.

Maybe @super_gt can shed some light?

 

[super_gt]

I’m one of those try-hards-posers that run an alpha male 20nm base. I haven’t been able to find good information on how much force I’m actually using IG. My in game settings are as per recommended by Fanatec (5-1), but for gr.3 cars and below, I run the base at 100%. For gr.2 I run it at 90% (because the increased down force makes 100% too much), and for Gr.1/prototypes - I run about 80-85%, for the same reasons.

All of these different “percentages” that I run for high downforce cars, feel just as heavy, if not heavier than the “100%” that I run on the base for gt.3 cars.

Which brings me back to the original question. If 80% on Gr.1 cars feels exactly the same - if not heavier than 100% on GT3 cars…. Then how many NM am I actually running at 100% on said GT3 cars?

Regardless, the wheel does beat you up a bit running heavy torque like that, but I do notice that I sacrifice detail (and realism to an extent 🙄), if I run lower torque values than that.

Maybe @super_gt can shed some light?

Can't you see the Newton meters on the base OLED screen?
I do not have Podium DD.

 

[Yard_Sale]

Can't you see the Newton meters on the base OLED screen?
I do not have Podium DD.

Not that I can see. On the FFB strength menu, it’s just displayed as a digital 1-100 input. I’ll look when I get home though, to see if I’m missing anything

 

[super_gt]

Not that I can see. On the FFB strength menu, it’s just displayed as a digital 1-100 input. I’ll look when I get home though, to see if I’m missing anything

Here's what the Podium DD bases guide says:

 

[Kruse]

ABS is lowkey broken in this game. Online lobbies should have to option to force it to Weak, setting it to default means you’ll never go into terminal understeer which is not what happens in real life.

 

[dabz343]

FFB has improved, especially the understeer on entry. The Gr3 cars on RMs with 6x tirewear feels satisfying, but there is still an odd traction slip out of slow corners in some cars like the AMG 20. Add just a tad too much steering angle and she spins like you ran over a patch of slimy algae. Could this be a heat (or load, or both) related issue in the tire model? Maybe just the diff setting?

I'd like to try different car/tire combos other than Gr3, any suggestions on good & ugly?

 

[danardif1]

There is an annoying hidden assistant that prevents the rear tires from locking even with ABS Off.

Yeah that's the key difference I find from the other sims I use. I ran a really aggressive setup at a Monza race on ACC last week, and had the brake bias nearly at 50% so quite far back (Audi R8 Evo), and braking for T1 at the absolute latest point had the car shaking as the abs worked on keeping the rear stable whilst I was slamming the pedal. It was fast though as it wasn't bad enough to unsettle the car so I had a nice pointy front end for the corners.

There's no way to recreate that effect in GT7 though, as much as it is really good in other areas, in braking it feels like it's still got kid gloves on a bit.

 

[bigmull]

The more I play the better I like the physics. The tyre wear of RI and Wets when on a dry track is great you sometimes have to search out the wet bits of track to cool them down to extend their life,also the loss of adhesion in the wet on RH,RM,R/S is a lot more realistic. I think the biggest plus is the increased stability under hard braking,pre update some cars were just undriveable due to the crazy weaving,I just hope they don’t change it and bugger up the whole game.

 

[danardif1]

The more I play the better I like the physics. The tyre wear of RI and Wets when on a dry track is great you sometimes have to search out the wet bits of track to cool them down to extend their life,also the loss of adhesion in the wet on RH,RM,R/S is a lot more realistic. I think the biggest plus is the increased stability under hard braking,pre update some cars were just undriveable due to the crazy weaving,I just hope they don’t change it and bugger up the whole game.

I've also really enjoyed the way that cars drive on intermediate and wet tyres. If you watch a lot of onboards of GT cars etc driving in the wet, you can see that the drivers are able to put in a lot of lock and to try and induce understeer. This style often works well in those conditions as you're keeping the rear more in check and the stability helps build confidence in the tricky weather. This is completely possible to recreate within GT7 and it's actually quite rewarding to adapt your technique to the conditions.

 

[CustomX]

July 2023 question. As of this latest updated (1.35), how would you compare GT7's physics with other leading simracing titles like Assetto Corsa on PC? Does GT7 match it? Or still lags in the physics department?

 

[Raf997]

July 2023 question. As of this latest updated (1.35), how would you compare GT7's physics with other leading simracing titles like Assetto Corsa on PC? Does GT7 match it? Or still lags in the physics department?

Judging by what I saw the last time I played it few days ago it seems that it's much improved since launch and that is getting closer up to Assetto Corsa standards, even though it would still need some degree of improvement to get there. Altough as I said, it is not too far from it.

 

[CustomX]

Anyone playing both regularly and could comment?

 

[Nightwing24]

Anyone playing both regularly and could comment?

Not comparing against ACC new ver 1.9 but beforehand, as I have yet to try the new ACC update on console. With that caveat said, I’d say the physics in GT 7 have come a step or 2 closer to realism with the last big physics update.

In GT7 before this update I could never feel loosing grip in the car nor save slides and spin outs but could easily in ACC just from the feeling in the FFB communicated in steering. In GT7 the feeling I had I would describe as the top suspension not physically connected to the wheels (impossible in reality). I could feel some things like the weight of the car but not the details I’m used to to feel grip via steering like in ACC. Immediately since that last physics update in GT7 I was saving the car regularly and thus able to push its limits further almost as if they linked the car with the suspension and wheels physically in the update.

I’m not a very good or experienced race driver to properly communicate the specifics of the differences, and have been improving quite a bit now that I have the fundamentals of racing in check, but this is a big difference that is noticeable even to the intermediate scrubs like me far beyond my skill improving.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Anyone playing both regularly and could comment?

I've spoken at length about the similarities between GT7 and ACC and the short story is that they're fairly close in terms of overall feel. However as a controller user, GT7 is more enjoyable as it has a better connection to the road and the car compared to ACC. That game can lack a bit of feel but that's more a result of it not really being optimised for the controller. Despite this, ACC most definitely has the better tyre model as it exhibits heating, cooling and deformation properties with a lot more realism. GT7 isn't there yet but the way the cars pitch and yaw is pretty much the same. Driving on the limit is easier with GT7 as it doesn't require as much finesse as ACC demands.

 

[sonnyboychris]

July 2023 question. As of this latest updated (1.35), how would you compare GT7's physics with other leading simracing titles like Assetto Corsa on PC? Does GT7 match it? Or still lags in the physics department?

GT7 is closing the gap but is still a ways off. ACC is so much more communicative through the wheel compared to GT7, even with the recent improvements.

 

[MroczMR]

GT7 is closing the gap but is still a ways off. ACC is so much more communicative through the wheel compared to GT7, even with the recent improvements.

ACC yes it is on another level. But standard AC is very close with GT7 in my opinion.

 

[sonnyboychris]

ACC yes it is on another level. But standard AC is very close with GT7 in my opinion.

Ah ok, I've never played AC before. I didn't realize there was a difference in feel between the two games.