NFS Shift 2 Unleashed - Details

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Idon't understand how you can have the FIA GT licence and not include pit stops. Endurance races are on the calendar, how are you going to switch drivers, or make a pit stop for fuel / tyres ? I hope they include It, would be a shame if they don't.
 
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Minardi
nI don't understand how you cab have the FIA GT licence and not include pit stops. Endurance races are on the calendar, how are you going to switch drivers, or make a pit stop for fuel / tyres ? I hope they include It, would be a shame if they don't.
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If EA want success with a simulator game they must include pitstop. It is a big disappointed if they don't include this. I don't care if there is any visible pitcrew around the car. I just want to refill fuel and get some fresh tires.
 
Well... Remember the "endurance" races in shift 1, where in one of them you had to do three whole laps around the Nurburgring?

I think Shift II will be no different in that regard. Unfortunatly:indiff:
 
STORSKARV
If EA want success with a simulator game they must include pitstop. It is a big disappointed if they don't include this. I don't care if there is any visible pitcrew around the car. I just want to refill fuel and get some fresh tires.
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Not just that, they're getting us all excited about the physics and improved sim aspects of this game, but if they don't have pit stops, then I doubt they have tyre wear. Which sucks... it means you don't have to keep your tyres warm, don't have to worry about which kind of tyres you use, and there probably won't be punctures and tyre damage...

Plus, what's the point of having crashes and damage if there are no pit stops? This just sounds like every other Need For Speed game... you mean I can ram into a guy at 100km/h, destroy my front end, and just go on with the race like nothing happened with all this "pretty looking" damage on my car for the rest of the race? No affected aerodynamics? No affected handling? I'd rather have no damage then. Why can no console racer get this right (besides F1 2010)?

GT5 has no damage but pitstops. Shift 2 has no pitstops but damage. Anybody see a bizarre inconsistency here?
 
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It's entirely possible to have good racing without pitstops and tyre wear. Sure, it takes away some strategy and requires some suspension of disbelief, but you can still have a good race. They'd be good, but I'd argue they're not ESSENTIAL to a good racing experience. They just make a good experience better.

Now, dodgy physics and/or dodgy netcode tend to make good racing nigh on impossible, no matter which way you slice it.
 
They'd be good, but I'd argue they're not ESSENTIAL to a good racing experience. They just make a good experience better.
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True, Superstars V8 NC doesn't have pit stops during races (although you can put during practice and qualify), but still the racing experience is there, and good. However, in the Superstars V8 real life series, one doesn't have to pit for tires or fuel.

That is totally different than a FIA GT endurance race. Pit stops are a BIG, essential part of the game. Now only hope It's in the real game. :)
 
Imari
It's entirely possible to have good racing without pitstops and tyre wear. Sure, it takes away some strategy and requires some suspension of disbelief, but you can still have a good race. They'd be good, but I'd argue they're not ESSENTIAL to a good racing experience. They just make a good experience better.

Now, dodgy physics and/or dodgy netcode tend to make good racing nigh on impossible, no matter which way you slice it.
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I'm afraid I have to disagree with this. There's one aspect of tire wear that few take into consideration. Without it, you tend to have guys hooning around powersliding every turn, because their tires NEVER wear out from this. Once tire wear becomes a factor, people tend to settle down and actually drive a bit more conservatively to avoid doing too many pitstops (or sliding out all the time on the last lap).

All those guys hooning around, and then you get the inevitable demolition derby that we want to avoid (if you like racing, rather than crashing, that is!). And, I'd have to say, if you are into RACING, having people actually race, rather than just drift into each other all the time helps MORE than physics. I've said it so many times before, but a racing game with great physics and great graphics that allows people to drive around in a completely un-racing like fashion is still no racing game!

Personally, for short online races, I'd like to see tire wear actually accelerated! IRL, you can't really badly deteriorate a set of tires in a couple of laps (well, OK, you CAN, but it takes some doing!), but online, it's often a real tough job to get people to race more than two to four laps. Upping the tire wear PAST realistic levels would help tame those a bit, too.

I was online the other night, and people were sliding around (it was Shuffle mode in GT5) on those Comfort Soft's like it was Shift 1 on ice! Finally I forced a 10 lap race, and all the idiot sliders that were winning the short races couldn't keep up with a sensibly raced car...

I think tire wear is ESSENTIAL to the sport. Or it becomes a different sport.
 
If it's simply the normal current version of Monza, why would they go out of their way to emphasize that it's the '58 version if it didn't include the oval attached?
 
Thing is, was the ring ALWAYS used even back in '58, or did they run without it sometimes? I just hope, if the ring is in, you have an option to run on today's track (or at least the 58 layout without the ring).

I still see little in the way of period cars in Shift 2, certainly nothing from back then, and it's going to be very strange to run a 2010 car on a 1958 layout... There's a REASON they took the ring out. Cars started to be unsafe on it. Is that what we want in Shift 2? Unsafe tracks? More crashes, I guess! They SURE love everything to do with those!

You know, why don't SMS stay true to the modern era, and then leverage the physics and basic game code, and bring out a whole vintage racing game? 20's through 70's. Cars. tracks, spectators in period gear, music of the day, maybe a black and white sort of look to it? Maybe even a BIG, expensive DLC expansion. But shoehorning this in?

Mixing the two doesn't work in GT5, and it's not going to work in Shift 2. Just like the odd F1 car. You want to play F1, you get F1 2010. You want to play vintage racing, get a vintage racing game. But one or two older cars and one track layout from back then (and losing the current layout) is not going to satisfy anyone. You're going to want more, and there ain't any!
 
They already made something similar to this in GT Legends, and the Ferrari game was going to include "eras" of cars (you can see a little bit of a move in this direction in shift 2) including old Grand Prix style open wheelers. But that kind of thing - while very interesting - does not seem to make enough money to keep a publisher afloat (especially if they burn all their money on silly things :)).
 
Yeah... I think a nice big $30+ DLC would be the way to go. Mind you, if the physics model is already worked out, if the menu system and online structure code is already done, making a game that is separate would only involve the modeling of the cars and tracks, so you wouldn't NEED to make as much money to break even...

Cover the costs of the modeling, the rest is jam!
 
You could do it as a model pack easily enough (see: team racing pack for shift 1), but actually building something to a high standard would be a lot more work. GT Legends got by as a game because it was a modern day FIA GT series using cars with many modern components. Once you start actually making older cars as troublesome as they really were I think you shave off a pretty large fraction even of the hardcore audience. You can try people's attempts to remake these cars as they actually were in their own era in Historix or Power & Glory, it's ... very hard to drive them. Significantly harder than your usual driving game. The disc brakes, radial tyres and multilink suspensions we get to use now are a lot friendlier than it used to be.
 
I agree, but, let's face it. No game is REALLY as hard to drive as the real thing. You think anyone could just sit in an F1 car and not crash every lap no matter HOW long they practiced? I seem to remember a Top Gear where they put the little guy in last year's (year prior to the show) Renault F1 car. He couldn't even launch! And the first straight and corners absolutely terrified him! You have to go SO fast just to heat up the tires and get the downforce working, and with cold tires it is simply beyond most normal people's ability. And even warmed up, if the truth be known (or Sebastien Vettel would have a LOT more competition!)

But they sold a boatload of F1 2010...

I think you don't need to model JUST how difficult those old racers were. In the ballpark is close enough. Even today, they drive those older cars around, for vintage car days, but they run on modern rubber. To be honest, I think there's be quite a bit of interest in a vintage racing game, or a decent sized DLC. There's a LOT more older gamers playing now, there's always a lot of nostalgia for the 50's and 60's. Fashion, music, art. Mad Men, things like that.

As long as they don't shoot themselves in the face, trying to model the last tiny intricacy of 20's suspension and engine curves, I think there's enough interest to justify the models and licensing the music and tracks (half the tracks are gone, so all you would have to do is model something CLOSE).

I'd buy it, for sure! A bit of pre-war, some classic sixties Lotus F1 cars, some LeMans GT cars, a DB5 for us James Bond fans, what's NOT to love! Events like Goodwood and other classic racing track days shows that there is, in fact, a HUGE fanbase for the racing nostalgia genre. Many of the same people attending F1 races go to them. They buy F1 2010. Many of the people that attend ALMS and FIA GT races go to them. They buy Shift and GT5. I don't see why they WOULDN'T buy a good racing game from the era of cars they actually go out and see in person.

I know I would!
 
STORSKARV
If EA want success with a simulator game they must include pitstop. It is a big disappointed if they don't include this. I don't care if there is any visible pitcrew around the car. I just want to refill fuel and get some fresh tires.
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Why? I would rather spend my time racing than sitting in a pit lane...I dont care if they do it in real life, this isnt real lif,e its a game, designed to be fun.

And, they have not said tyre wear isnt in the game, it probably is based on the compex tyre physics etc and visual displays of everything happening. You will just have to look after your tyres across the whole race perhaps.

Either way, no pit stops is not a gamebreaker for me because I dont like them, they do them in real life, becuase they have to.
 
MildAshers
Why? I would rather spend my time racing than sitting in a pit lane...I dont care if they do it in real life, this isnt real lif,e its a game, designed to be fun.

And, they have not said tyre wear isnt in the game, it probably is based on the compex tyre physics etc and visual displays of everything happening. You will just have to look after your tyres across the whole race perhaps.

Either way, no pit stops is not a gamebreaker for me because I dont like them, they do them in real life, becuase they have to.
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I agree. If we look at Shift 1's career formula, pit stops wouldn't be needed. Now before anyone says again "how can a game with FIA not have pit stops?!?!"

It's not called The FIA Shift 2: Unleashed. It's just Shift 2: Unleashed with an FIA license to feature FIA GT1 and GT3 cars.
 
^ Well put, its kind of like GT5 in that respect, WRC and NASCAR licenses, doesnt mean it has to replicate every detail of each championship. Its primarily for the cars. Otherwise wouldn't we see the full calendar of tracks from each?

I personally cant wait for this game and it really has a chance to topple GT and FM.
 
MildAshers
Why? I would rather spend my time racing than sitting in a pit lane...I dont care if they do it in real life, this isnt real lif,e its a game, designed to be fun.

And, they have not said tyre wear isnt in the game, it probably is based on the compex tyre physics etc and visual displays of everything happening. You will just have to look after your tyres across the whole race perhaps.

Either way, no pit stops is not a gamebreaker for me because I dont like them, they do them in real life, becuase they have to.
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It's a matter of how sim like a person wants it. They also have to worry about corner entry speeds, braking for a corner and a cars weight shifting in real life, some people may not consider those fun and prefer to just have a game where you hoon around at unrealistic speeds etc.. but for people who want to simulate in a game something they can't practically do in real life every detail counts.

You can't please all of the people all of the time. As soon as you start letting marketing dictate game design you end up with something that doesn't fully please any one. Hot Pursuit takes care of the arcade game, Shift should target the sim demographic because currently there are no sim games that get it right, it's a gaping hole in the market.
 
Shift is designed to be exciting, I have full faith that it will be a good sim, just because it doesnt have pit stops doesnt mean the game is no longer a sim...

Not to mention that the people who want all out sims are in the minority, it has to appeal to the majority market.

BTW, if pit stops are your kinda thing perhaps you should try GTR2 on the PC, you can do really long races with as many pit stops as you like..
 
MildAshers
Shift is designed to be exciting, I have full faith that it will be a good sim, just because it doesnt have pit stops doesnt mean the game is no longer a sim...

Not to mention that the people who want all out sims are in the minority, it has to appeal to the majority market.

BTW, if pit stops are your kinda thing perhaps you should try GTR2 on the PC, you can do really long races with as many pit stops as you like..
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To be honest I'm not holding out hope for the physics of it either. You can see it all over the guy from insidesimracing's face when talking about it, he's being as kind as he can with the words he uses but his face just screams 'not a sim'.

The whole Shift2 being an accurate sim is just marketing, it may dupe a few sim lovers into buying it and it will give the people who don't really want a punishing sim but like to kid them self they are driving close to reality that warm cosy feeling inside.

The market for a good sim may not be the majority, but it's not a small amount of people. If someone produces the definitive sim sure your casual none car lovers may steer clear of it, but every one who really wants something that truly captures driving will flock to it.

Iracing falls down with it's pricing structure, graphics and lack of cars. What the hardcore want is basically GT5/Forza/Shift without the concessions it makes to none sim fans. If a game does that across all 3 platforms it will sell in enough volume to make up for it's lack of 'mass appeal'.
 
BigYoSpeck
What the hardcore want is basically GT5/Forza/Shift without the concessions it makes to none sim fans. If a game does that across all 3 platforms it will sell in enough volume to make up for it's lack of 'mass appeal'.
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No offense, but if that were true we'd be seeing those very kind of products on the market.

I believe the gaming houses have market researchers, etc. and know what sells and what does not. True simulations have always been rare, and there IS a reason for that - they don't sell enough product to warrant the development costs.
 
JGW
No offense, but if that were true we'd be seeing those very kind of products on the market.

I believe the gaming houses have market researchers, etc. and know what sells and what does not. True simulations have always been rare, and there IS a reason for that - they don't sell enough product to warrant the development costs.
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Market researchers only tell you what people tell them. You can't focus group a piece of art because it has to be something people couldn't imagine they would want. The original GT was the work of a visionary, at a time when driving games consisted of the hardcore PC sim and the arcade console racer it was a gamble and it was great.
 
BigYoSpeck
Market researchers only tell you what people tell them. You can't focus group a piece of art because it has to be something people couldn't imagine they would want. The original GT was the work of a visionary, at a time when driving games consisted of the hardcore PC sim and the arcade console racer it was a gamble and it was great.
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If you're a good market researcher you don't necessarily believe everything people tell you, you observe their behaviour to see if it agrees with their statements. You know, like when people tell you that they're not racist, they just hate black people.
 
Imari
If you're a good market researcher you don't necessarily believe everything people tell you, you observe their behaviour to see if it agrees with their statements. You know, like when people tell you that they're not racist, they just hate black people.
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You can't standardise innovation though, it's still using facts and figures to make a decision and that can only lead to mediocrity. True innovation comes from someone having the balls to go against the grain and take a chance on something they have an intuition will be great.
 
Can't argue with the above statement, but you do realize that most game houses are using OTHER peoples money to develop the product......Very few innovators out there with the balls to go it alone, much less to take a chance on very little return on the investment.
 

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