Nissan GTR LM Nismo Confirmed for GT Academy Final!!!

[Bo]

I think if it was such a good concept they would've kept faith in it, but the team concluded they wouldn't be able to reach the targets they wanted so they withdraw.

They have a tiny budget and a 2 year programme. They've spent half of their programme dealing with problems out of their hands. It was never going to recover from that.

You seem to think that manufacturers just chuck an idea onto a track willy-nilly and then find out if it's any good later. We aren't living in 1910.

So couldn't they seek for alternative suppliers?

They did, and were doing so even before Le Mans, as they knew ToroTrak had fluffed it up. They were planning to move to Porsche's battery vendor for 2016.

Couldn't do any minor redesign to the car at all, and everything was completely doomed from then??

You have a miniscule budget. You have one radical idea, built around a compact flywheel system that is able to deliver massive amounts of power in short, sharp bursts. If that fails, then you can't magic up money and change the laws of physics to make everything work the way you originally intended.

Sorry but I dont buy it.

It's not our fault if you don't "buy" the facts.

 

[R5]

So couldn't they seek for alternative suppliers?
Couldn't do any minor redesign to the car at all, and everything was completely doomed from then??

Sorry but I dont buy it.

It's really not that easy, as the car would have been designed around a very specific hybrid system and there aren't too many companies in the world who could actually produce such a complex system at a whim, it'd take a lot of investment of time and money which is probably something the new boss (who's name I can't remember) probably didn't want to go through with.

 

[NixxxoN]

They have a tiny budget and a 2 year programme. They've spent half of their programme dealing with problems out of their hands. It was never going to recover from that.

You seem to think that manufacturers just chuck an idea onto a track willy-nilly and then find out if it's any good later. We aren't living in 1910.

They did, and were doing so even before Le Mans, as they knew ToroTrak had fluffed it up. They were planning to move to Porsche's battery vendor for 2016.

You have a miniscule budget. You have one radical idea, built around a compact flywheel system that is able to deliver massive amounts of power in short, sharp bursts. If that fails, then you can't magic up money and change the laws of physics to make everything work the way you originally intended.

It's not our fault if you don't "buy" the facts.

Please stop with this attitude of moral superiority. I'm etitled to my opinion.

The only fact I can see here is that they failed... and you have no proof that this concept would have been good/successful, had the hybrid systems functioned as they planned...

 

[Bo]

Please stop with this attitude of moral superiority. I'm etitled to my opinion.

Nobody said you weren't...? We just said the reasoning you're using against the project is way off base.

and you have no proof that this concept would have been good/successful, had the hybrid systems functioned as they planned...

Nobody has said that either. In equal measure, there's nothing to say it was guaranteed to be a total disaster.

 

[R5]

Please stop with this attitude of moral superiority. I'm etitled to my opinion.

Yes and people are entitled to say you're wrong. You expressed your opinion, Bo expressed his, you don't like his opinion and he doesn't like yours. I fail to see anyone stopping you expressing your opinion, or anyone acting morally superior.

The only fact I can see here is that they failed

Nobody said otherwise, what we did say is that it wasn't Nissan's fault.

and you have no proof that this concept would have been good/successful, had the hybrid systems functioned as they planned...

You have no proof that it wouldn't have been successful but...

Maybe the hybrid system failed but I think its more than that, its the whole concept.

Yeah...

 

[NixxxoN]

Nobody said otherwise, what we did say is that it wasn't Nissan's fault.

I think it IS Nissan's fault, because you are responsible for what your suppliers provide you, and you're responsible to choose good suppliers to give exactly what you want.
They maybe also messed up at choosing to compete in Le Mans with such a low budget. It is know that usually the lower the budget, the less good results you can achieve.

 

[R5]

I think it IS Nissan's fault, because you are responsible for what your suppliers provide you, and you're responsible to choose good suppliers to give exactly what you want.
They maybe also messed up at choosing to compete in Le Mans with such a low budget. It is know that usually the lower the budget, the less good results you can achieve.

Yeah, which is why they were changing their suppliers for 2016, rather than stick with the same one.

And having a low budget doesn't necessarily mean failure, if you're clever about it which is what Nissan was aiming to show with their new concept.

 

[Bo]

because you are responsible for what your suppliers provide you

What?

So if I order a one-off birthday cake from an artisan bakery, and when I receive it it's made of glue and cardboard, it's my fault?

and you're responsible to choose good suppliers to give exactly what you want.

Of course you need to choose suppliers carefully, but it's not as though ToroTrak is an unknown vendor. If you contact several vendors and one of them says they can produce something that fits your needs perfectly, you aren't going to turn them down.

There is the argument that they should have taken some, if not all of the development in-house, but it was nothing but impossible given their circumstances.

They maybe also messed up at choosing to compete in Le Mans with such a low budget. It is know that usually the lower the budget, the less good results you can achieve.

More money is always handy, but it's not like they were completely cash-strapped. If they were, they wouldn't have been able to put three cars on the grid back in June.

 

[NixxxoN]

What?

So if I order a one-off birthday cake from an artisan bakery, and when I receive it it's made of glue and cardboard, it's my fault?

You have to make sure your providers do the job well and you have to get informed about it and make the necessary decisions so everything will be as good as possible.
With a higher budget they would've been able to ask not one but several providers to do what they wanted, and then choose the best one when they finished.
If you order a bad birthday cake for someone else, its your fault for choosing a bad one from a bad provider.

 

[SlipZtrEm]

This example makes no sense.

Strange, then, that you essentially say the same thing later:

If you order a bad birthday cake for someone else, its your fault for choosing a bad one from a bad provider.

This is of course true, if you're going in knowing the supplier is bad. Which begs the question of why you'd go to them in the first place.

That's not what happened here. Nissan didn't go looking for a crap, box-mix birthday cake. They went to somebody who makes cakes from scratch. Unfortunately, there were problems with the yeast activating properly, problems the baker did not foresee when starting the order. That isn't Nissan's fault.

You have to make sure your providers do the job well and you have to get informed about it and make the necessary decisions so everything will be as good as possible.

Who's to say Nissan wasn't already doing just that? You?

 

[R5]

This example makes no sense.

Well the bakery is clearly a trusted establishment, so you put your trust in them to bake you an artistic cake because, you know, they both assured you they could and you've done your research on their work.

Your cake arrives and it's made of cardboard and glue, so it isn't what you asked for. Now you could (and have) say this

You have to make sure your providers do the job well and you have to get informed about it and make the necessary decisions so everything will be as good as possible.

But you did your homework on the bakery, and they seemed very good at what they did. Unfortunately, you're busy so you can't just stand over them while they work away at the cardboard cake but you've given them every shred of relevant data to make the cake.

Unfortunately the suppliers mess up, you didn't plan for a mistake as huge as this though so you just have to make do, you've already said you'll have the cake ready, and you don't want to go back on your word.

Again, you could (and have) say

With a higher budget they would've been able to ask not one but several providers to do what they wanted, and then choose the best one when they finished

But you gave them very specific instructions on what to do, so why do you need more than 1 if the single one has very strict instructions on what to build? It's a pointless task which would consume more money than would be needed.

Now you could (and have) say

If you order a bad birthday cake for someone else, its your fault for choosing a bad one from a bad provider.

But they weren't a bad provider, they were actually very good at what they did. Alas, for whatever reason, this time they didn't come through. It's not your fault that the company messed up on specific instructions, at all. It's just they ignored these instructions completely.

TL;DR: the cake proves you're wrong

 

[Samus]

You have to make sure your providers do the job well and you have to get informed about it and make the necessary decisions so everything will be as good as possible.
With a higher budget they would've been able to ask not one but several providers to do what they wanted, and then choose the best one when they finished.
If you order a bad birthday cake for someone else, its your fault for choosing a bad one from a bad provider.

If you hire Fernando Alonso to drive you somewhere and he crashes, is it your fault for choosing a bad driver?

 

[R5]

If you hire Fernando Alonso to drive you somewhere and he crashes, is it your fault for choosing a bad driver?

It definitely is even though he's a 2 time F1 world champion who came close to winning a whole lot more what's so hard to understand about that? God get off your high horse!

 

[FoRiZon]

It definitely is even though he's a 2 time F1 world champion who came close to winning a whole lot more what's so hard to understand about that? God get off your high horse!

Should've been Pastor Maldonado but whatever.

 

[R5]

Should've been Pastor Maldonado but whatever.

The problem is we needed a good driver to use as an example

 

[Holdenhsvgtsr]

It's really not that easy, as the car would have been designed around a very specific hybrid system and there aren't too many companies in the world who could actually produce such a complex system at a whim, it'd take a lot of investment of time and money which is probably something the new boss (who's name I can't remember) probably didn't want to go through with.

Not really as they actually changed what hybrid system it was going to use.

 

[super_gt]

1. Jani/Lieb/DumasGER Porsche 919 Hybrid 3m 16.887sLMP1
30. Tincknell/Krumm/Buncombe JPN Nissan GT-R LM Nismo 3m 36.995sLMP1 *
20.108 seconds per lap difference.
This "compact flywheel system which deliver massive amounts of power in short, sharp bursts'' to the rear wheels must be magical to compensate 20 seconds per lap difference

 

[R5]

1. Jani/Lieb/DumasGER Porsche 919 Hybrid 3m 16.887sLMP1
30. Tincknell/Krumm/Buncombe JPN Nissan GT-R LM Nismo 3m 36.995sLMP1 *
20.108 seconds per lap difference.
This "compact flywheel system which deliver massive amounts of power in short, sharp bursts'' to the rear wheels must be magical to compensate 20 seconds per lap difference

If it worked, yes. You have to remember that they were running less power than an LMP2 because of their lack of hybrid power.

 

[NixxxoN]

Oh god, here we go again. GTplanet crusade vs NixxxoN. I know you guys love me so much but please let me a little bit of breath.

 

[Tornado]

You could try making a point that isn't a logical black hole.

 

[R5]

Oh god, here we go again. GTplanet crusade vs NixxxoN. I know you guys love me so much but please let me a little bit of breath.

I was wondering how long it'd take you to play victim, and it's odd that you choose to play the part so much because it's not like you don't want the attention

 

[NixxxoN]

I was wondering how long it'd take you to play victim, and it's odd that you choose to play the part so much because it's not like you don't want the attention

I'm tired of people quoting me like crazy, I dont want to talk to 4 or 5 people at the same time in one thread, I was just discussing with someone about something in particular, and then came the argument soldiers to try to beat me in the arguments like their life depends on it. Geez. So annoying.
I dont want or need any attention from random people on the internet, thank you.

 

[R5]

I'm tired of people quoting me like crazy, I dont want to talk to 4 or 5 people at the same time in one thread, I was just discussing with someone about something in particular, and then came the argument soldiers to try to beat me in the arguments like their life depends on it. Geez. So annoying.
I dont want or need any attention from random people on the internet, thank you.

Well if you want 1 to 1 conversations with people don't do it on a public thread.

And really? All you seem to do is try to start flame wars everywhere you go so it's either you wanting attention or just wanting to cause argument.

 

[NixxxoN]

Well if you want 1 to 1 conversations with people don't do it on a public thread.

And really? All you seem to do is try to start flame wars everywhere you go so it's either you wanting attention or just wanting to cause argument.

Normally when you quote someone, this person replies you and so on.
And seriously, who would want attention on an internet forum? Someone who doesnt have friends IRL?

 

[Bo]

1. Jani/Lieb/DumasGER Porsche 919 Hybrid 3m 16.887sLMP1
30. Tincknell/Krumm/Buncombe JPN Nissan GT-R LM Nismo 3m 36.995sLMP1 *
20.108 seconds per lap difference.
This "compact flywheel system which deliver massive amounts of power in short, sharp bursts'' to the rear wheels must be magical to compensate 20 seconds per lap difference

When the car weighed more than a P2, had less power than a P2, had virtually no stopping power and had a front suspension layout made of biscuits, yet still managed to go faster than them during the race, things actually looked rather good.

Let's also not forget that the Porsche was ridiculously quick, far quicker than anyone had anticipated. Next year they'll be a good 5-10 seconds slower on average.

I can't believe the same arguments are still coming full circle. The answers are out there. Every logical fallacy has been corrected numerous times. The horse is very much dead.

Oh god, here we go again. GTplanet crusade vs NixxxoN. I know you guys love me so much but please let me a little bit of breath.

You've presented some fairly ludicrous arguments and been duly corrected. The victim card doesn't really hold up.

I'm tired of people quoting me like crazy, I dont want to talk to 4 or 5 people at the same time in one thread, I was just discussing with someone about something in particular, and then came the argument soldiers to try to beat me in the arguments like their life depends on it. Geez. So annoying.

If you don't want to be corrected, don't post silly things. If you don't want to talk to people, don't log into a forum.

I dont want or need any attention from random people on the internet, thank you.

You seem pretty desperate for it if that's the case.

Again, if you don't like talking to people, a forum might not be a great place to be.

Anyway, I could've sworn this was a thread about the car's presence in GT6...

 

[R5]

Normally when you quote someone, this person replies you and so on.

Yes, and due to the nature of Internet forums, other people can see and reply to these messages as they please. Until you run GTPlanet, this doesn't change.

And seriously, who would want attention on the internet? Someone who doesnt have friends IRL?

You tell me.

 

[GTracer125]

Can we stop with the pointless arguements guys, and get back to what this topic is about?

 

[NixxxoN]

When the car weighed more than a P2, had less power than a P2, had virtually no stopping power and had a front suspension layout made of biscuits, yet still managed to go faster than them during the race, things actually looked rather good.

Let's also not forget that the Porsche was ridiculously quick, far quicker than anyone had anticipated. Next year they'll be a good 5-10 seconds slower on average.

I can't believe the same arguments are still coming full circle. The answers are out there. Every logical fallacy has been corrected numerous times. The horse is very much dead.

You've presented some fairly ludicrous arguments and been duly corrected. The victim card doesn't really hold up.

If you don't want to be corrected, don't post silly things. If you don't want to talk to people, don't log into a forum.

You seem pretty desperate for it if that's the case.

Again, if you don't like talking to people, a forum might not be a great place to be.

Anyway, I could've sworn this was a thread about the car's presence in GT6...

I dont want to talk with people obsessed and enclosed with the "unique thinking". I dont think I have been corrected of anything, I stand on my opinion.

Yes, and due to the nature of Internet forums, other people can see and reply to these messages as they please. Until you run GTPlanet, this doesn't change.

You tell me.

Yes and people can also answer them or ignore them as they please.
"You tell me"? Are you suggesting I have no friends?

 

[GTracer125]

I dont want to talk with people obsessed and enclosed with the "unique thinking". I dont think I have been corrected of anything, I stand on my opinion.


Yes and people can also answer them or ignore them as they please.
"You tell me"? Are you suggesting I have no friends?

This really isn't helping your case man, you are just giving them more reasons to backlash at you.

 

[NixxxoN]

This really isn't helping your case man, you are just giving them more reasons to backlash at you.

Got to believe in dignity and self defense.