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Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 6' started by monildan, Jan 11, 2012.
Well you have plenty of time to try and save.
If GT6 was to come to PS3, and I hope it doesn't, because that would spell a disastrous waiting time for the next GT game on PS4, = ~2.5years? after hardware launch as was with PS3. So PD should release an A-Spec expansion pack to GT5, and use all that income to accelerate GT'6' for PS4 on hardware launch, Christmas 2014 would be fantastic for us all.
Long live GT5 on PS3 with DLC, Expansion, and Spec updates, and may the next installment be for PS4, asap.
PS4 wishlist: smell scent immersion (heat , track, tire smells) and support for hydraulic seats. (mid life crisis instant purchase), and support, manufacturing for 360 degree peripheral vision monitors.
I think the speculation is not needed as it does seem like we are getting GT6 on PS3.
Otherwise they wouldnt be developing new tracks and cars.
There would be alot of pressure with a GT6 on PS4. Also do people want a GT3 sized game again?
I could easily wait 3 more years for GT6, no rush since GT5 is having such a great support. I just hope PD will polish the game enought this time around so we won't get inconsistent content (PS2-level cars and tracks) again. What GT6 seriously need to improve by now is - AI, cars sounds, and as I said - constant quality, in that order.
In this interview you will find that next playstation will be on market earliest in seven years of PS3 life. So that mean 2013 november earliest, so 2014 is logical year to see PS4. So I expect GT6 on PS3
I also expect GT6 for PS3 if the PS4 is to arrive only somewhere near 2015. Also I don't see a GT game as a launching title for a new console. I think PD would start working on a whole new engine if the game is on PS4 and that takes time since everyone expects a GT game to push the hardware limits. And I don't think it would be as much profitable for a game company to keep updating a game and releasing DLCs for 4 years than to release a new game. GT5 may have pushed the PS3 when it comes to graphics so for GT6 they could concentrate on adding more features like RM's, cars and tracks and better career. So yes, I believe GT6 could be on PS3. I actually hope it does.
You talk about graphic. GT6 on PS3 with bigger number of premium car, track
and muck better/bigger A-spec event is possible on PS3. I think that big numbers of player's wold be satisfied with that! Better graphic leave for PS4 and GT7
Exacly. GT6 could be the "true" GT experience on the PS3. It could be the complete game we wanted GT5 to be.
I think GT5 Spec III at the end of this year would eventually brings just that: more cars, more optimizations, more seasonal events, more GUI improvement...
But I still would bet on GT6 only for PS4 knowing Kaz's perfectionism and GT power hungry type of game: the core is here, the max polygons are also here, it just needs a more powerful gaming platform: no need to redo a new engine from scratch (as GT5 was definitely thought with too much ambition) but bring on the photomode quality (HD shadows, full AA...) during gameplay and you have a new GT!
There has been no world about another Spec update and even if there's another the chance of having a considerable amount of new cars/tracks is very small with this whole DLC thing. When Sony reveals the PS4 it'll be more than a PS3 with more RAM. It'll probably have a new hardware capable of doing things better than the phtomode quality we have now. The cars will be even more detailed and so will the tracks and special effects and improved physics. And in order to take advantage of the new console they'll need a new engine rather than a 5-6 year old one. No other GT title on a new console have used the same engine as the previous game on the older console. But that is just the way I see things.
Of course, you're absolutely right. I just hope they don't throw away the code next time; that stuff is useful! It's only really things like the graphics and sound (and probably the physics nowadays) that need the most adaptation. Except bugs; they can be thrown away.
Frankly, you cannot do much more than the actual lighting and car polygon counts on GT5, it's already near perfection! only an anti-flickering/Anti-aliasing feature could really add to that... look at the photomode, can you really be more realistic than that???
We are a bottleneck point in term of graphism, GT5 is already very near life-like realistic... where PD should go with GT6 is to upgrade features where they are not so good: sounds, perfecting the weather effects, more complex physical tire model, Livery editor, etc... I would be perfectly happy with an optimized GT5 graphic engine with AA and anti-flickering, perfect shadows and smoke @ 60fps if all the other features are on par with it (engine sounds especially and true Racing noises like loud bangs and dynamic grinding gears )
my two pence:
there will be a GT6 on the PS3. it will be around 2013.
my reason for thinking this is GT is a massive franchise and one that sony wants to milk. if took a long time to get GT5 out and sony will again want to make that development time as profitable as possible.
I wholeheartedly agree with everything in post, with the exception of the livery editor.
It wasn't the E3, was the CES, that pretty much has nothing to do with gaming, Kaz can say whatever he wants, but there is no way that the PS3 stays afloat for 4 more years when it's well known that new consoles are arriving in the upcoming months, they should be crazy to even thinks about that
Agreed, I don't want GT6 to be a PS3 game - as long as PD keep supporting GT5 with seasonals, extra features (I'd like an event creation tool), and extra tracks and cars through DLC (every 6 weeks will be regular enough for me)
as for the GT1 & Gt2 for PS1, GT3 and GT4 for PS2 logic ... I disagree with the logic, because it took 4 years for the first full Gran Turismo game to appear on PS3. Didn't GT1 and GT3 arrive much sooner in that consoles life cycle?
Furthermore, GT1 & GT4 couldn't be updated or supported through updates like PD can do with GT5. I reckon that GT5 Spec 3.0 will be to the GT5 Spec 1.0 almost like what GT4 is to GT3
I'm posting again, so get ready for another wall-of-text term paper.
You might want to reconsider that. Keep in mind that the DLC we're getting is stuff earmarked for GT6 and is being produced under that budget, so selling tidbits in this style of DLC is mostly profit. Let's follow your four year scenario with an average DLC of say $7.50 US every two months, and with costs deducted, maybe $5 of profit. Since every pack may not be wildly popular, let's say that each one garners an average of 750,000 sales. Over four years, this will amount to 750K x $5 x 24 DLCs = $ 90 million.
Yes, between Prologue and GT5, the profit is likely way more than $100 million, maybe closer to $200M, but the work to produce this DLC is also way less than creating an entire game - at least $80M for GT5 - and so is the cost. Nor is there waiting three to five years with rising bills, since each DLC is a quick infusion of lots of cash every eight weeks or less. If I'm near the mark on what income this is for SONY and PD, this could cover much of the cost of GT6's development.
As for which system GT6 will be on, we had quite a discussion in a previous thread about this. If you've studied systems as much as I have, you'll know that the potential horsepower for any console is just about tapped out four or five years into its lifespan, which is where we're at with PS3, and when the producer is about ready to launch the next hardware. I know the PS3 is very advanced with a mega-CPU with seven available cores and very fast ram. But it's also hamstrung with a bandwidth bottleneck between the CPU, SPEs, RSX graphics chip and the two ram banks. Because it only has 256 megs of system ram, developers have to do a lot of data shuffling and time it very carefully to deliver everything they want in graphics, physics, world rendering and gameplay potential. And be stable.
The GT5 Engine has been hammered on and tweaked for at least four years, and yet we still have a game with wonky shadows and ugly particle rendering artifacts. I seriously doubt that the engine can squeeze anything more from PS3. In that other debate, I covered a lot of things the team could do to scavenge processor overhead needed to improve the game, such as dropping the 3D engine aspects and making them optional installs, doing much more dynamic polygon culling and "down rendering" of objects, and dropping the resolution to 720p. In other words, simplifying some of that graphic splendor to devote to better shader and particle rendering. But I seriously doubt that the team is interested in dropping the overall quality of the game like that, even if it could deliver better graphics overall.
I think with Ninty's new toy ready to ship this year, and MS likely yanking the veil from the NextBox this E3, SONY is planning on this and will be right there with them. And be honest, both the 360 and PS3 won't seem as new and interesting with a brand new Nintendo, no matter what the specs are. SONY and MS both will have to remind the world where the real action is, and at least tease about a new system like Ninty did last year.
And I'm sure Kaz is itching for even more powerful hardware with much more ram, that's almost a no-brainer. Plus, remember that at least one developer is working on a Playstation 4 game. And in spite of how popular Uncharted, Killzone and God of War are, I can think of a certain race series which is a guaranteed mega-seller, as well as system seller.
Don't think that the GT5 Engine would need four years of work to even be decent. Engines can be ported and optimized for various systems without too much trouble. Remember that the Cry Engine 2 was ported down to both the 360 and PS3 from much more powerful PC hardware, and runs well. Porting up is likely even easier, thanks to more processor capacity and abundant ram. The car and track models PD is creating will work on anything. The physics and A.I. will need some attention, but it would have probably been tweaked if made for PS3 anyway.
And for those groaning about a PS4 costing $600 or more again, catch your breath and let me ease your fears. The reason that the PS3 cost so darn much is because the hardware was all cutting edge and initially cost SONY somewhere in the neighborhood of $850 for each unit at launch. The Cell chip was $150-175, and the single speed Blu-ray drive could have been $200, thanks to the brand new blue-violet laser diodes which were in global short supply. Now, you can get a 12 speed dual layer BR drive for your PC for a whopping $60 from Newegg, and the drive inside the case might not even cost $30 to produce. How about PS Vita, with that HD OLED screen, pressure plate and all those fancy newfangled high tech features? Bet it costs a pretty dollar? Sort of, the base WiFi model is $249, with AT&T 3G, $299. The PSP at launch? $249. I don't expect PS4 to cost more than $399.
While both the XBox3 and PS4 could conceivably launch this holiday season, I expect both in 2013 at a reasonable price, and GT6 to launch within a year, by holiday 2014. I anticipate as many as 500-600 Premium level cars - no Standards, and around 50 locations with as many as 100 tracks. I expect decent damage modeling, Race Mod of almost every car and some sort of a Livery Editor, a better Course Maker along the lines of the one in ModNation Racers, a nice long single player career and well endowed online, and more goodies than you can bust a Move at.
In the meantime, I expect GT5 to be updated periodically with DLC and features patched in, and each year, for SONY to produce a new edition with all the features included. It will finally be the GT5 we wanted all along. For the most part, but in some ways, even more.
I really don't see how people are expecting the PS4 and other next gen so soon. On another thread some, individual who lacked knowledge but was abundant with self confidence, proclaimed that the next gen consoles by Sony and Microsoft were being released at that electronic show, and how they are coming out so soon.
It seems pretty obvious nothing will be out for a while. Seriously, before the PS3 was released, what happened? From the point of buying it in store, think about the time line. All the rumors, the leaks, the concepts, and what was the time frame?
Unless people have a real source to show where they are getting this information from, it would be nice if it would end.
And so many people proclaim GT6 will be PS4. Really? Where do you get that from?
4 to 5 was such a wait because of switching hard ware. If we wait for GT6 and PS4, they will launch PS4 (2014 at the earliest) and then what? What was that break between GT5 and PS3 launch?
Add that to the wait. Loose guess, 2017?
Stop being stupid. Kaz and friends already said the hard part is switching to new tech, ie new gen consoles. They got the PS3 down. It started out rough, but now with this DLC coming out, and them consistant with DLC and updates, I am very impressed. But I digress; the hard part is over. Now, they make the GT6 for PS3, release date probably mid to late 2014. I mean, we should start hearing about it's release for early 2013, but with push backs...
Really, some people seem to not be looking too closely at reality when talking about these releases and next gen what nots. Or maybe they just have too high of hopes, and I'm a Debbie Downer. When we next hear about PS4 from Sony, but a year on the clock before we get it on shelves. The year will come first.
New consoles are coming, Wii-U is releasing this year, Sony and MS can't let Nintendo have a so much time alone in the market with no competition, Xbox Next and PS4 will not be released this Year, but announcements and a 2013 launch date are really possible
A lot of you talk about game creation as if you know much about it. Few people hit it right on the dot though. Game engines is not the issue in this matter. A new engine could be created right now and not even produce anything better then what the game is outputting currently. Its all about how a game is setup. If you think GT6 would be any better then GT5 then try to prove it otherwise. I have doubts about the PS3 producing any better then it has been with the past year. Maybe some developers would pull a few secrets out of their behinds and make us go wooh. Though GT6 should be on the next gen and I think Kaz knows this and will do this. GT5 is welcomed by updates monthly and anything could be changed with an update.
Thread is too long, so I'm probably repeating some people here, but...
How long has WoW been up? How long has Eve been up? I'm sorry, but why would we want GT6? GT5 is only a year old? They have a platform to deliver improvements.
Mind you, they would've gotten more life out of the game if they started by making it easier to set up and run leagues online. Yes, they could deliver that as a patch this year, but they should've started their. PD and Sony have never understood how to run an online game.
I guess that is why their core audience has the attention span of a gnat and are already eager for GT6.
Nintendo has never been real competition for ps3 or 360. The wii has, at best, ps2 quality graphics and is largely marketed to people with kids instead of to the enthusiast. Gimmicky products are Nintendo's niche customer, not hardcore gamers. They are going after completely different demographics. The two surely have some overlap, but not enough to really call them any kind of direct competitor. I doubt that PS4 or XBox 720? will have anything to fear whatsoever from the Nintendo line of products.
Your point? last E3 they were showing real 3rd party support, so yeah, they're aiming to kids and grandmas but they're also aiming to the core this time, next gen it'll be all about the guys who pay $60 on day one for real games
If they get a real and free online infrastructure to compete against PSN and MS cash cow aka Live, you'll see the other companies start to shout Next Gen with their new consoles, look what happened to the PS3, launched a year later than x360 and now it's in 3rd place, if Sony don't want the same result, they'll react faster this time
Exactly, nintendo was bringing in a new group of gamers to the hardcore gamer scene. I must say they were highly successful, so much that MS and Sony decided to make a add on that put them in direct competition with Nintendo. Also there are certain games that blew MS and Sony's name titles out of the water.
I said the whole Sony PS3 bit earlier on other threads like this. Sad thing is Sony wants to run their 10 year console plan, while the other company's switch to the next best thing when they don't see any more growth on the current console. The only thing that will save a late PS4 against MS and Nintendo, is Sony having a much better line up of games then when PS3 was launched.
Actually, I believe Kaz has stated that GT6 has already begun production. There's a post in the New sections about it, though there isn't any further detail that I recall.
Could be that they're building it for the PS4, who knows... but it still does seem very likely GT6 could be a PS3 title. Remember, GT4 also dropped pretty late in the PS2's relevant lifespan. So did Tourist Trophy and also GTSP for that matter.
Gran Turismo is riding on a lot of momentum and I think the title gets stronger each time there's an update/patch/DLC. There's benefits in developing GT6 for PS3 and I think it's important that they release a title that finally shifts Gran Turismo entirely into the next generation of gaming.
While GT5 does a great job and does have a great presentation, it still is based upon the same foundations and concepts that GT1 is and for a game of this caliber in the year 2012... that's kind of lackluster. I mean using PS2 ports for a majority of the cars just doesn't seem to like a 2012 thing... more like a 2006 thing.
GT6 could very well be the best driving game ever made, and there is no reason why it shouldn't be after everything PD has learned from GT5. It's there chance to definitively reclaim poll position in this genre and stand out again as they have in the past and to do so convcievably in the near future.
It's possible that IF Nintendo ramps up their everything, they may compete one day. I'd love to see what could really be done with the Zelda and Metroid franchises if they were developed into the massive projects that they should be, but so far the SNES had the best versions to date in my opinion. They have the titles, it's their ability and vision that I doubt.
I think Sony's gambit will be to be the last to release the next gen console. I think Nintendo will hit first and get big sales for a while but will price drop shortly after the new Xbox comes out, then Sony will release shortly after that. I expect, just based on past experience, that PS4 will be some outrageous amount of money and drop price in steps as they always have. Meanwhile Xbox will rake in the fortunes that Nintendo and Sony will miss because of their greed and/or ineptitude. Meanwhile, I will be playing games on my PC until either the Xbox or PS4 hits a price point I like and has a catalog of games worth investing in. If GT ever hits PC, I'm out of the console market.
Well I'll be out of the console market if the PC racing games get the same kind of backing as console racing games. Once that happens then PD better hope that Sony can build a system that can handle a GT game trying to beat PC games (which wont happen). Sony's issue to me is thinking they control the market place and can just release game systems when they want and still have a chance to beat the others. They thought that Blu-Ray was going to be big and it still hasn't blown up like Sony wished it had and they released their system a year late partly because of that and now we'll have to see what gimmick gets attached to the PS4.
About Graphics :
Recently i played GT5: Prologue & after playing that , i think GT6 in this generation can be far better than GT5.
Prologue is a 2007 game. 3 years before GT5. but car models & tracks are almost like GT5 models & tracks. shadows are much better than GT5. frame rate is alot better than GT5. Loadings is kilometers ahead of GT5.
I think in term of graphics , we can call GT5 a 2007 game. a game with 2007 or 2008 technologies. do you remember PS1 & PS2 GTs ? they were kings of graphics in their consoles. but GT5 isnt a king (albeit i call it a king when i look at premium cars) & i think GT6 in this generation can make it a king again !
You're half correct, GT5 is a "2007 game" done in a late 2005/early 2006 hardware, it's mind-blowing what the SCE Studios can do with the PS3 considering it's really dated HW now, PD top-notch as usual.
PD was late to the party with the PS3 and with so many projects, Tourist Trophy came too late into PS2 life that It could have been better to up-res and port it to PS3, then GTHD, GT5P, GT-Portable, too many games for such an "small" team, because being real, 150 people for modeling +1000 cars and creating a custom engine from scratch is not enough.
What it's good it's the fact that Premium Modeled cars are future proof for Next GT Game and for that game PD will be able to use the full-poly models in races and not just Photomode, also the next modeled cars will have more polygons to make them look more beautiful and detailed