North Korea, Sanctions, and Kim Jong-un

It'd be quite unwise for them to do that, it would probably give the U.S. the go ahead and not much China could do to stop it from happening. Or for that matter defend NK if they were to shoot down a plane over international waters.
If NK shoots down a plane not in its own airspace, China will do nothing. I found it humorous that the person said it's allowed according to the UN. (It's not). More comedy in that they pick and choose what guidelines to follow from the UN.
 
If NK shoots down a plane not in its own airspace, China will do nothing. I found it humorous that the person said it's allowed according to the UN. (It's not). More comedy in that they pick and choose what guidelines to follow from the UN.

Yeah that's true and part of what I was trying to convey. It's both funny and all the more irritating how they cherry pick U.N. treaties and guidelines.
 
Trumps says that Otto Warmbier was "tortured beyond belief" but this seems strongly at odds with the results of the medical examination. No post mortem was held. BBC.
 
Trumps says that Otto Warmbier was "tortured beyond belief" but this seems strongly at odds with the results of the medical examination. No post mortem was held. BBC.

But he was blind, deaf and shaking uncontrollably... I would say that's pretty bad torture.
 
But he was blind, deaf and shaking uncontrollably... I would say that's pretty bad torture.

Torturous it may be, proof of torture it is not. There are many conditions that can cause that. The parents' description of missing teeth wasn't borne out by medical inspection. Nor did that inspection find any visual evidence of torture - in fact the doctor went so far as to say that the corpse was in excellent condition.
 
But he was blind, deaf and shaking uncontrollably... I would say that's pretty bad torture.
I've read an article (written by Andrei Lankov, a Russian specialist on Korean studies) that explains the situation with Warmbier. (Didn't find an English version, but Lankov also writes in English so there may be one.) Briefly: it is very unlikely that he was tortured or something like that. They wanted to detain him then release like they already did to some American citizens. The conditions they're held in are much better than an average North Korean can count on, and the DPRK government demands a visit of a well-known politician (at least a governor, or even a former president) to release the prisoner(s). For example, in 2009, two American journalists were arrested for crossing the border and sentenced to 12 years of prison. But they were in prison only for few months, and were taken away by Bill Clinton personally. They do it to US citizens only - when an Australian Christian missionary tried to give away Bible on a street (on the holiday of Kim Jong Il's birthday!), he was only deported from the country. Plus, Chinese and Russian tourists in NK sometimes did worse things than Warmbier, but no incidents happened.

Why do they do it? First, to remind the guests of DPRK that they shouldn't get too cocky here. Second, such prisoners are handled with care and in relatively comfortable conditions, to show them (and others) that North Korea isn't as terrible as the world portrays it. But third, more importantly, the country gets visited by a representative of the US, and he has to bring some sort of apology for that the detainee has (allegedly) done. Such visits are widely covered in the North Korean press, and their propaganda portrays it as "another victory of our great country and our Great Marshall Kim Jong Un over the American imperialists". Of course, such events increase the regime's popularity in the eyes of their people.

In Warmbier's case, they tried to do the same. But this time, something went wrong. Perhaps the guy had weak health, and after huge psychological stress he had after being sentenced to 15 years (that he wouldn't spend in a prison anyway), his condition became bad, and the medicine given by the North Korean doctors made it only worse. Or he unluckily hit the doorjamb with his head, or he tried to commit suicide in the prison - we don't know the details. But the fact is - the North Koreans messed up. They didn't want it to turn out that way, but now, the public suspects that Otto was tortured, which is most likely not true. But it'll be hard for NK to prove otherwise. An attempt to gain some propaganda points resulted in a catastrophe of their image to the world, and now (when the relations with the US are already too tense) is not the best time for this.
 
and the DPRK government demands a visit of a well-known politician (at least a governor, or even a former president) to release the prisoner(s).

Ironically Rodman with his Potcoin shirt was the person to visit NK and miraculously dude was released soon after...
 
Trumps says that Otto Warmbier was "tortured beyond belief" but this seems strongly at odds with the results of the medical examination. No post mortem was held. BBC.
Exhume the body, and you will find evidence of torture. That is assuming that he was buried and not cremated.
 
So why didn't doctors find that?
Inexperience maybe? As you have stated yourself, he was examined by the medical examiner. Put his body in front of an army doctor, especially one who has been to war, with the task to look for signs of torture and he could find some.
 
Inexperience maybe?

Nope, and nope. They have about 70 years experience between them and one is a University chair of Pathology. Their report seems quite clear on the lack of smashed teeth or huge lacerations.

Put his body in front of an army doctor, especially one who has been to war, with the task to look for signs of torture and he could find some.

Rubbish, imo.
 
...Not taking sides here, but let's reexamine the remains of Warmbier and ascertain that he was indeed physically/mentally tortured first before saying he was. That's a somewhat dangerous slope we might be treading on here.
 
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I'm not buying the "he was tortured" arguments simply because I see no motive for NK to do so. It's not like this was a guy with security clearance, it was just a very stupid kid. Even the scummiest countries don't waste their time with normal civilians because they likely don't know anything useful.
 
...To all Australian GTP members, is this thing real?!

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Found it while laughing my butt off at imgflip.com.
 
Trump should demand they abandon nukes and communist party step down from power.
And after that, Kim would say "Ah, OK" and give up nukes and power. :rolleyes:

By the way, strictly speaking, there's no communist party in North Korea. There was one, but it was merged with New People's Party of Korea in 1946 and formed into the Worker's Party of Korea that is in power nowadays.
 
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For all the good it would do him, he could demand a return of Narnia to the control of Aslan, and a seat on the council of Elrond too.
This made me laugh so hard I peed a little.
 
North Korea declares war on water confirmed?
To be fair he wouldn't be the first person to declare war against the water. Caligula did declare war against Poseidon. He told his men to throw spears randomly into the water. I have no idea how you would classify the winner of that war.
 
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