Nurburgring 24hr report

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Mister E
One of the dumber things I've heard in the thread.

"I'm not gonna get the S license, because that would involve me not obeying the laws of Newtonian physics, in a video game."

You guys are seriously stuck up if you can't enjoy a game just because it's slightly unrealistic.

I think from a gameplay persepective, having the game be a tiny bit unrealistic is an essential aspect. In a video game, I don't want to have to worry about flipping my car by going too fast down a straight. It's real, but is it fun?

I can't wait to do that license test, it will be incredibly fun.
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Gran turismo 4 isn't a game though, it's a simulator. and simulators are supposed to be as real as possible, i think GT4 made a very significant improvement over GT3, but there's still a long way to go...
but this time at least they got it real enough to be fun for me. GT3 got boring real fast because the driving experience sucked, i enjoyed F355 challenge a lot more than GT3, with only one car... so quality really is more important than quantity...

GT4 is currently, by far the best "track simulator" the track renditions are very accurate when comparing them to the real ones, as far as the cars go, the driving experience is good, but there's still a lot of room for improvement, at least this time i can have a blast by just doing time attacks like in F355 challenge.

next step of course is damage, and even more accurate physics and a more advanced simulation of the cars (brake fade is a must!).

anyway, i can totally understand people complaining about the game having faults in realisim, it is after all.. not just a game, but a simulator. but like i said, this time is good enough to enjoy it by sim fans... so enjoy!
 
gt4 is a driving simulator, not a racing simulator. If the simulator at the DMV features damage models and aerodynamic involved crashes, be sure to tell me but until then, dont even try and downgrade gt4's tagline.
 
S16: gold in 5.46,5xx :)
yeeehaaaa!

i don´t care anymore if anybody says it´s unrealistic, it´s just a hell of lot of fun....
now back to shave off a few more secs.

cheers
 
Another thing to consider about the "lack of realism" is that the driver in the game gets a very limited amount of feedback. In real life, that lap would require you to regularly cope with 2.5-3 Gs while trying to concentrate on the road and maintain a death grip on the steering wheel. You'd get tired out really quick.
 
GT4 is an accessible sim unlike say GTR which as fantastic as it is will not be enjoyed by the guy who doesn't feel the need to buy a wheel, GT4 on the otherhand is catering for console gamers, this people is marketing and if GT4 was a proper sim it wouldn't sell as many copies. Personally I love Gran Turismo despite it's many, many faults, if it went into hardcore sim status, I'd still enjoy it, however many people wouldn't.

I don't get people who are complaining about the fact GT4 doesn't simulat the airflow over a car and that you can take such a corner 20kph faster than you could in real life, go get a life please. If thats what your most concerned about what are you doing talking about a PS2 exclusive racing game, none of them ever will go that deep even if the game wouldn't suffer do to all the extra calculations needed. As far as I'm concerned I'm going to enjoy GT4, be it real or not, it's good enough, and to that guy who saifd he's only going to drive road cars at the ring, suit your goddamn self, but don't go whinning about here it's not getting you anywhere and if you WERE a GT fan you'd know from previouse experience what to expect.
 
toler
S16: gold in 5.46,5xx :)
yeeehaaaa!

i don´t care anymore if anybody says it´s unrealistic, it´s just a hell of lot of fun....
now back to shave off a few more secs.

cheers
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Heres a guy that understands what games are about.
 
Can't you guys find something else to be pissed about?

I'd think the lack of a clutch and a shifter would be complained about more. Or maybe the DFP's lack of a keyhole, and unrealistic placement of the buttons, that should have been integrated into the should have been implemented dashboard. And the missing iDrive on equipped BMW's.
 
Mister E
Can't you guys find something else to be pissed about?

I'd think the lack of a clutch and a shifter would be complained about more. Or maybe the DFP's lack of a keyhole, and unrealistic placement of the buttons, that should have been integrated into the should have been implemented dashboard. And the missing iDrive on equipped BMW's.
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:lol: Stop you sound like Cobra_UK :lol:
 
Hej......all.....

Watched the ring video and damn i felt chills down my spine....(can i say it like that?) hehe..
I love the straight parts of the track, it look like old roads in sweden hehe wiht bad asphalt and all hehe... the sence(sp) of speed was owerwelming. Now i know for sure that i am gonna buy this game as soon as it get out in sweden but first i hope i can get my driver licens..hehe..."Ringen" is a very intersting track indeed damn gonna test it out for real when i get my driver licens. gonna be driving a Volvo 240 ofcourse what else hehe...
 
live4speed
I don't get people who are complaining about the fact GT4 doesn't simulat the airflow over a car and that you can take such a corner 20kph faster than you could in real life, go get a life please. [etc.]
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Besides all that, who of you will really truly notice the difference? Sure you can look at a replay and analyze every millisecond of the run, but in reality the only way you'd notice any un-realism at all while playing the game is if you actively drove a Sauber C9 (or whatever) in real life. If any one of you has had such a priviledge, let him complain about the unrealistic driving. Otherwise, give it a rest. GT4 isn't perfectly real, but what do you expect out a couple 300mhz processors and 32megs of RAM? Just shut up and enjoy the game, geez.
 
Polyphony gives you all the tools to make the game as realistic as you want. If you want the true experience, take that car to the 'ring in free run mode and turn off all the driving assists and use less grippy tires.

The required races (i.e. the License tests) are made to be difficult but beatable by an average player, which is why many use driving assists. We are lucky that Polyphony even gave us the options to make it more realistic seeing as we are such a small minority.
 
I agree that the Sauber lap is unrealistic. But then again, it IS only a game, and it is only a test, with super-soft tires (that never wear) and all driving aids turned on.

Like was said (somewhere) above, while I'll still drive the races and license tests, etc, whenever I go out to the 'Ring for my own enjoyment, it'll be a road car and street tires, with aids off. That way, the only thing holding that car together 'round the track will be ME. Make it as close to simulation as possible, and the lap times will probably get much closer to reality.
 
next step of course is damage, and even more accurate physics and a more advanced simulation of the cars (brake fade is a must!).
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Perhaps when we get those force feedback pedals we can experience the pedal getting longer and longer until.... *BANG* :)
 
cobragt
gt4 is a driving simulator, not a racing simulator. If the simulator at the DMV features damage models and aerodynamic involved crashes, be sure to tell me but until then, dont even try and downgrade gt4's tagline.
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ok, that's the most moronic post i've seen all day, wtf do you mean when the DMV features damage models and aerodynamic involved crashes? GT4 isn't a safe driving school, it's a race driving school, i've never seen trafic in the GT series, or working stop sigins or red lights, pedestrians, traffic merging, etc. when you do please let me know. untill then i suggest you please think before you reply because you risk looking like an idiot in other people's eyes.

With that out of the way, stop trying to defend the simulator's weak points by making up stupid excuses like that, GT4 is great, but it has it's shortcomming and there's absolutley nothing wrong with people pointing them out, i'm sure you're one of those guys that defends KY because "he's a perfectionist" and yet at the same time when people point out stuff that is a lot less than perfect you seem to forget that... there's a description to people like you, they are called fanboys, you have to look at Gran Turismo 4 objectivly, nobody is going to stop you from playing it just because they point out something wrong with it, so don't worry.

here's pretty much the breakdown on GT4 from my experience:

-It's the best track simulator
-It has the most photorealistic graphics for a racing game even though it's only a PS2 game wich is horribly outdated by current hardware (mainly PC hardware of course.)
-It has the widest selection of cars available in any title, most of them real cars to boot.
-the driving experience is great this time around, even tough it still lacks some very important stuff such as damage and brake fade.
- It's the best overall sim/game combo out there and the vastest.
-It has horrible AI.
-No online support at all (LAN is great, and it will always be the best way to play ANY racing game.. but it's not NEARLY as practical as online. it should've had both, end of story.)
-No "memory card battle" is also a huge minus.
-No damage, and no penalities for the most part (people are encouraged to drive wrecklessly by this, this would be fixed if you could turn it on and off so newbies wouldn't get too frustrsated... or better yet, make the penalties permanent and make those guys play B-Spec, that's why he made it anyway.)
- No clutch
-no REAL automatic transmisions (they are manual gear ratios but switch automaticly, instead of showing the real automatic transmisions of the same car)
-No cockpits (again, it's easy to defend PD here because of the sheer number of cars, but it's still a shortcoming no matter how much you sugar coat it.)
- Great sounds, the best in any game... if it wasn't for that transmision sound that remained unchanged from GT3 (other than that, it even beats GTR in other areas, such as tyre sound, wind. etc)
- Lots of tuning options, this is very good, too bad there's very few visual modifications, but for the most part it's got evrything covered.

If you look at my comments they are pretty much objective and are real pros and cons of the game, you have to look at evrything this way if you don't want to look like a fan boy, and if you look at my comments you'll notice that GT4 has most of the things that make a simulator fun and then some, so please stop bashing evryone that has some concern for it's favourite sim, it's perfectly understandable.

i for one still can't belive KY went ahead with taking out online play because of the lag just alone, but for the most part it's a great game.
 
In the license test video, I'm very surprised he didn't fail for going off the track several times in the second half, especially at 3:43.

Are the tests more lenient in GT4?
 
I don't think he wen't completely off did he, his left wheels were on the rumble strip which counts as part of the track.
 
GTXLR
👎 👎

Some times you guys really do expect too much.

You are correct the Physics engine isnt realistically modelling ground effects :scared: and gravity.
What it models is Car data into a realistic interpretation of realistic handling/power e.t.c. on a realistically recreated interpretation of the track.
Yes some consideration with regards to downforce is recreated, but this will just be an additional tweak to the grip levels, not full modelling of air flow just the same way as the weight and suspension data are handled.

With the driver Aids on in the game you can go as fast as is possible, even against the laws of newtons physics, and even against the effect of ground effect and push all the way up to the limits of the cars data, and this will be unrealistic represenation of the real world.

Without driver aids the physics engine would have you crashing or going off track and spinning out which helps recreate a truer level of what is capable, but they are still not modelled as in the real world but allow a much closer representation of the sort of speed & grip levels.

If you really expect to get full modelled real world physics, you are going to need something more than a humble PS2, Im sure no PC game could currently model what you expect.
Get a grip, get real, and just enjoy GT4.
Dont even expect GT5 on PS3 to fully recreate the laws of Physics, Im pretty sure that achievement and level of realism is many many years away.
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First of all, wind resistance is modelled in GPL (1998 people, the same year of GT1), but that's a bit offtopic....

I'm not trying to say that there are lots of "simulation" features missing from GT4 (well there are, but that's a limitation of our own PS2), what I'm trying to say is that the Sauber has "unrealistic" behaviour in terms of grip (too much downforce!!!!! 300km/h at the right-hander after flugpltaz or the left-hander after schwedenkreuz is just too much speed!!!!!!! Even not taking into account crests/hill/etecetera, not even a modern F1 would be as quick as that, that's what I'm trying to say... And not off by a 5% margin as said by the PD guys... That's why I (me me me me me me) feels cheated when someone says to me that this is the "real driving simulator", yet I see this kind of innacuracies (and don't get me to the part of tunning, because you'll know that's a joke if you understand just a little bit of car enginneering).

However, this doesn't mean GT4 is a bad game, in fact there are things I really like (the ring is soo accurate, as well as LeMans!!!!!) I'm thinking in buying a PStwo just to play it (well, if my Momo Force works, because if not, I don't think I'm going to shed 150€ for another wheel). Maybe the actual physics engine is quite good and maybe there are cars which are very realistic, but I feel the Sauber is not one of them...

PS: The talk about damage is bit silly... I'd prefer to have good online-play, the possibility of racing against a lot more cars and day to night transitions than "damage"... For GT5 in PS3? We can only but hope!!
 
oh dear.. so many people moaning over this.. what on earth is there to moan about you bunch of lemons :D

That lap was done in the comfort of a heated room in a probably very comfortable chair using a DFP on a PS2.

No G-Forces
No wind/Air
No heat
No physical stresses of any kind
No other cars on the track
No brake wear
No tyre wear
No fear (the ability to try and turn a corner *knowing* that you can 'try' flooring it and no matter what happens you will never die counts for a lot. You can easily run many laps testing the absolute extremes of some of these corners without dying and that will really give an advantage for some corners.)

Then you have to consider the many other factors that probably are lacking from this particular lap. The guy had GT's traction control on.. that is no weak tool.. that really boosts the grip to an insane level... Couple that with the absolute perfect conditions the track has and the chance to practice an infinite amount of times without ever dying or risking anything except missing lunch or delaying a toilet trip and you will get such times.

Moaning about that lap without considering all of this is stupid... some good points have been made in this thread it's a shame not many have listened to them.

That video is very impressive, whoever drove it is extremely skilled and I doubt many of us will be able to match it at all. Being able to drive that fast in GT4 denotes amazing skill, however much the time may differ from real records set.

As for that rendition of the Ring... that looks brilliant to me... I see plenty of bumps in the right places.. and whilst it's not perfect.. I'd love to see you do better. There is no greater rendition of the Ring in a videogame to my knowledge. Some may say GPL has better but I am unsure of this.

I cannot wait to drive this track with any car in GT4. It will be a fantastic experience and whilst it wont be exactly like reality it's the closest we're gonna get until the next GT I suppose.

That video had a brilliant sense of speed and was very hair raising... I can't even imagine going that fast in a straight line let alone around corners... and then when I think of going that fast around corners that belong to the Nurburgring... that's just beyond comprehension.. The strain it must be to do that and the bravery/skill required is immense.

I still fully believe the GT4 Ring will give us fairly accurate times compared with real times, but there will always be differences.. after all GT4 is not reality.
 
Ubiquitous
oh dear.. so many people moaning over this.. what on earth is there to moan about you bunch of lemons :D

That lap was done in the comfort of a heated room in a probably very comfortable chair using a DFP on a PS2.

No G-Forces
No wind/Air
No heat
No physical stresses of any kind
No other cars on the track
No brake wear
No tyre wear
No fear (the ability to try and turn a corner *knowing* that you can 'try' flooring it and no matter what happens you will never die counts for a lot. You can easily run many laps testing the absolute extremes of some of these corners without dying and that will really give an advantage for some corners.)

Then you have to consider the many other factors that probably are lacking from this particular lap. The guy had GT's traction control on.. that is no weak tool.. that really boosts the grip to an insane level... Couple that with the absolute perfect conditions the track has and the chance to practice an infinite amount of times without ever dying or risking anything except missing lunch or delaying a toilet trip and you will get such times.

Moaning about that lap without considering all of this is stupid... some good points have been made in this thread it's a shame not many have listened to them.

That video is very impressive, whoever drove it is extremely skilled and I doubt many of us will be able to match it at all. Being able to drive that fast in GT4 denotes amazing skill, however much the time may differ from real records set.

As for that rendition of the Ring... that looks brilliant to me... I see plenty of bumps in the right places.. and whilst it's not perfect.. I'd love to see you do better. There is no greater rendition of the Ring in a videogame to my knowledge. Some may say GPL has better but I am unsure of this.

I cannot wait to drive this track with any car in GT4. It will be a fantastic experience and whilst it wont be exactly like reality it's the closest we're gonna get until the next GT I suppose.

That video had a brilliant sense of speed and was very hair raising... I can't even imagine going that fast in a straight line let alone around corners... and then when I think of going that fast around corners that belong to the Nurburgring... that's just beyond comprehension.. The strain it must be to do that and the bravery/skill required is immense.

I still fully believe the GT4 Ring will give us fairly accurate times compared with real times, but there will always be differences.. after all GT4 is not reality.
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bravo.
 
SaintKamus
With that out of the way, stop trying to defend the simulator's weak points by making up stupid excuses like that, GT4 is great, but it has it's shortcomming and there's absolutley nothing wrong with people pointing them out, i'm sure you're one of those guys that defends KY because "he's a perfectionist" and yet at the same time when people point out stuff that is a lot less than perfect you seem to forget that... there's a description to people like you, they are called fanboys, you have to look at Gran Turismo 4 objectivly, nobody is going to stop you from playing it just because they point out something wrong with it, so don't worry.
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You can't call them shortcomings if it's pushing the hardware to the limits. A shortcoming is when you have the opportunity to reach that goal, but you fail. I think PD really is teetering on the line between broken PS2 and unbroken PS2.

KY is a perfectionist, yes, but perfectionists can only use the resources they are provided with. Along with that comes his never lessening urge to please the consumer. He needs to balance car count, appearance, historical content, physics, and gameplay (probably some other things) in order to sell the most copies possible and to please the most people possible. If he wanted ultimate realism, he would've gone the route of Enthusia which has (I guess) much more realistic physics than GT4.... but they're at the point where only hardcore automotive fans can play it. Don't forget the fact that graphics, car count, and other things were toned down for that.

People must realize (those who haven't already) that GT4 is setting the curve on almost all aspects of a game that I mentioned before. If you can't settle for that then no other game out can really suffice.

amar212
That driving sucks.
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It doesn't seem to be the driving that sucks. In fact that is amazing driving. It's the game's engine that "sucks". Although, that IS atleast one of the best engine's you'll find in a game at this point in time.

The moral of my rant is settle for what you got. If you have to complain, don't do it in a GT forum (you know it'll turn into a flame or whatever war), do it in a Polyphony Digital meeting room or something. I'm sure KY would just LOVE to hear you complain about everything he's already thought about.

Thanks for spending the time to read my rant. For the record, though, I do know GT4 will never live up to anyone's expectations. The same can be said for every video game made in the next 10-20 years. If you want ultimate realism, go drive the ring yourself :P.
 
SaintKamus
-no REAL automatic transmisions (they are manual gear ratios but switch automaticly, instead of showing the real automatic transmisions of the same car)
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Gotta call you on that one.. the Merc SL500 (sound bit available in another thread) is clearly an automatic, you can tell right in the sound file by the way it shifts, totally different from the other cars we've heard.

Overall, I agree that GT should have automatic transmissions available for whatever cars have them in real-life, and have them behave as such. The option should be chosen when the car is purchased (and that vehicle will then be permanently locked to that transmission).
 
The Nurburgring Sauber Merc lap has created some 'heated discusion'. Ok, lets see someone with the game try the same combination with slightly different settings, no driving aids,medium slicks and see how close to that time they can get. My guess, at best 10-15 seconds outside.
 
OMG LOLOLOL U CAN CORNER AT 300KMH ROFL SO UNREALISTIC LOL I CANT PLAY THIS IM TOO USED TO GPL OR FIA GT LOL THIS SUCKS, too bad KY ruined GT series, he better call it "arcade drive of ur life" next time lol cuz this is too unrealistic. NFSU allover again. I canceled my order from play-asia and destroyed all my other GT games. Too bad, arcades suck.

bbq time
 
Lamp
OMG LOLOLOL U CAN CORNER AT 300KMH ROFL SO UNREALISTIC LOL I CANT PLAY THIS IM TOO USED TO GPL OR FIA GT LOL THIS SUCKS, too bad KY ruined GT series, he better call it "arcade drive of ur life" next time lol cuz this is too unrealistic. NFSU allover again. I canceled my order from play-asia and destroyed all my other GT games. Too bad, arcades suck.

bbq time
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Woah, sometimes I ask myself why god created such a....retarded.
 
Lamp
OMG LOLOLOL U CAN CORNER AT 300KMH ROFL SO UNREALISTIC LOL I CANT PLAY THIS IM TOO USED TO GPL OR FIA GT LOL THIS SUCKS, too bad KY ruined GT series, he better call it "arcade drive of ur life" next time lol cuz this is too unrealistic. NFSU allover again. I canceled my order from play-asia and destroyed all my other GT games. Too bad, arcades suck.

bbq time
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Knowing this post is entirely sarcastic, I have to agree with it (what it was getting at, not what it was saying).
 

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